Huge explosion in Oslo

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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:55 am

I saw his "trailer"...he lists under Islam and Communism being behind endless death, Nazism and even Christendom. So he admits Nazis killed 20+ million people, as well as Christendom over the years.

He talks about the "globalists" of the West, Arab gulf oil states, etc(shows a picture of Bush kissing the Saudi leader) He talks about how he is opposed to interventionalism, and believes in isolationism. (Apparently the crusade is only limited to purging Muslims from Europe, not going over to the Middle East) He talks about a lot of things "conspiracy/anti government" people talk about, so its interesting last week Fema and DHS release this



We've seen it building up how white right wingers are being hyped up as the new era of terrorists...which I absolutely believe is the case, with Becks, Rush's and sadly even I'll admit the alex Jones out there

Nordic wrote:
8bitagent wrote:.just saying its not impossible for a single human to foment this master plan, and focus on it every day and pull it off without a hitch like John Doe in Se7en.


Dude, that was a fucking MOVIE.


Right, but John Doe represents the portrait the media, and perhaps Breivik want us to believe...the idea of this committed, warrior who has meticulously written thousands of pages on his ideology and methods and has a master plan.

So far the idea pushed is that Breivik went out of his way to make people believe he acted alone. Mcveigh did this, yet we know he definitely was not acting with himself or just Nichols.
I am saying that it's possible he physically did act alone, whether others knew about it or were in on it. Be it by programming or the way he wants to be portrayed, he himself wants the message to be that he himself acted alone.

But I will say, everyone is presenting interesting cases for both arguments. Afterall, wasnt the Dunblame mass killer tied to Masons? And we know Gladio was ran out of the masonic black lodge order "P2" with NATO and Western intel/Italian government. A lot of "lone gunmen" seem tied to mystical orders, be it Sirhan Sirhan and the Rosicrucians or Berkowitz and the Process Church.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:30 am

MacCruiskeen wrote:It would make as much sense to ask me whether a Great White Shark could beat Godzilla. In any case: it was not a "Mumbai like scenario of 20 angry Muslims with machine guns", as 700 young people with cellphones had just made crystal-clear to the police.


Had they? Is there a link I've missed?

For a start 700 phone calls saying "exactly the same thing".

How long is that gonna take anyway? Ever answered 700 phone calls? They didn't all happen at once did they, each one takes time, to get details and info on whats happening. And are they all saying "One guy dressed like a cop is shooting at us?"
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Peachtree Pam » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:41 am

It seems like this entire episode is designed to discredit the socialist government in power which is trying to extricate itself from action in Libya. Don't think this wierdo acted alone, but was "guided" by others to encourage his actions.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ootings-to

Timeline of response:

OSLO, July 24 (Reuters) - Norwegian police have defended themselves from criticism that they acted too slowly to stop a shooting massacre that killed at least 86 people.

Following is a timeline of attacks on Friday July 22 that 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik has admitted to carrying out. He views himself as an anti-Islamic crusader trying to stir turmoil in Europe to halt multi-culturalism:

1526 (1326 GMT) - Van packed with a bomb made from fertiliser explodes outside the office of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg in central Oslo, killing seven people.

After planting the bomb, Breivik drives on a 45-km (28 miles) road to a lake northwest of Oslo.

1657 - A ferryman gets a message that a policeman wants to be transported to Utoeya island in the lake, Norway's NTB news agency says. Disguised as a policeman, Breivik thereby tricks his way onto the island where youths from Stoltenberg's Labour Party are holding a summer camp.

1726 - Local police in Nordre Buskerud district get a first alert about shootings on the island.

1730 - Buskerud police in turn notify Oslo police.

1738 - Buskerud police formally request backup from Oslo.

1752 - The first police patrol, from Nordre Buskerud, arrives at the area but has to await a boat.

1809 - Oslo police arrive at the area, but need a boat. A boat problem delayed their arrival.

"When so many people and equipment were put into it, the boat started to take on water, so that the motor stopped," said Erik Berga, police operations chief in northern Buskerud County.

"The boat was way too small and way too poor," he said, referring to a police vessel that had been transported to the scene from nearby Hoenefoss for crossing to Utoeya island.

1825 - Police SWAT team reaches the island.

1827 - Breivik surrenders without a fight with police after shooting dead at least 86 people. Police said their arrival prevented further killings on the island, where hundreds of people were staying.

"We arrive with a very competent group that surrounds the perpetrator who then chooses to hand himself over to the police. He had at that point used two weapons and had been, and was still, in possession of a substantial amount of ammunition. Thus, the police's response has hindered further killing on the island."

National news broadcaster NRK scrambled a helicopter that filmed the gunman from the air on the island before police arrived. (Sources: Norwegian police, NTB news agency) (Editing by Peter Millership)
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Dradin Kastell » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:04 am

Coming from a similar-sized Northern European country as Norway, with only one dedicated national "heavy weapons"/"anti-terror" police unit, I see the events and the timetable of the Norwegian police response more or less plausible.

Like news pieces quoted here point out, Utoya is part of the Nordre Buskerud police district, which is one district removed from the Oslo area. Despite being less than 30 km outside the capital, northern Buskerud seems to be as rural as you get. The closes local "centre" is Honefoss, some 15 km away as a helicopter flies, with a population of 13900. This is where the police station closest to Utoya, in the Hole municipality, is located. Also, any phone calls to the police emergency number would have gone to the Nordre Buskerud local emergency centre/switchboard, not a national one.

See this Norwegian police prochure for some information about how the force is organised:

https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/rapport/Vedlegg_858.pdf

The key to the late response, apart form the initial lag since the first calls and first action by the local police, seems to be the decision to wait for the anti-terror (or "Delta") unit which we are told could not use a helicopter and was thus delayed. The problem, as I see it, was that the state had moved to an "anti-terror mode" after the Oslo bombing: if not this first shock, any reports of a shooter loose on the island would have marked an "ordinary" event and would have likely resulted in the local police arriving on Utoya as soon as they could. But because "terrorism" had been invoked, a decision was made to wait for the solitary anti-terror unit. Thus Breivik had at least 20-30 minutes more time to continue his rampage.

Now, it may be that Breivik could anticipate this, or even counted on such organisational inertia. Or, then, like some here say, it could have been intentionally enforced by someone in the police chain of command. Be it as it may, if this was the police in my native Finland I would not be surprised a bit.

Finally, one nugget of information I found out while searching stuff on the Norwegian police, etc: the same municipality, Hole, is home to the Sentralanlegget, the war headquarters of the Norwegian government. Built in the 60s to house the royal family and key leaders in the case of nuclear war and other emergencies, this facility is still operational today. I don't know if this has any bearing on the attacks, but it is an interesting data point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentralanlegget

EDIT: Maybe the Prime Minister was escorted to the emergency facility in anticipation of further attacks, and this tied up local police and officials making it harder to respond to what was happening on Utoya? We heard news of the PM being in an undisclosed location shortly after the attacks. It is highly unlikely this location would be the more modern government bunker, because it is located near the site of the initial bomb attack!

In such a case stopping the massacre on the island would have only been of lower priority than protecting the PM. If this was the case, it would be politically impossible for the Norwegian government to admit now the attacks are over.
Last edited by Dradin Kastell on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:30 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:It would make as much sense to ask me whether a Great White Shark could beat Godzilla. In any case: it was not a "Mumbai like scenario of 20 angry Muslims with machine guns", as 700 young people with cellphones had just made crystal-clear to the police.


Had they? Is there a link I've missed?

For a start 700 phone calls saying "exactly the same thing".

How long is that gonna take anyway? Ever answered 700 phone calls? They didn't all happen at once did they, each one takes time, to get details and info on whats happening. And are they all saying "One guy dressed like a cop is shooting at us?"


Jesus, Joe, you're really splitting hairs now. Why?

No, I freely admit they did not all literally say "exactly the same thing". But yes, there have been innumerable reports of thousands of desperate phone-calls and text messages, and even Facebook entries and emails, all conveying exactly the same information. Some of them will have said, "Help us, quick, there's a fucking gunman here on Utøya right now shooting lots of people dead!" (or words to that effect), while others (by contrast) will have said, "There's a fucking gunman here on Utøya shooting lots of people dead right now, help us, quick!" and still others will have mentioned the police uniform, and possibly a second shooter, and certainly that the killer was a blond who spoke fluent Norwegian (some even mentioned his Eastern Norwegian accent), while others yet will have rung the changes on their second or third or final attempts and said "Oh Jesus, when are you finally going to get to Utøya? We're being picked off like flies here.", while still others will have called their parents, screaming and crying, who in turn will have called the police double-quick, begging them to get to fucking Utøya at long, long last. And so on and so forth, for an hour and a half.

In short: the repeated message from a thousand voices will have been absolutely crystal-clear: A ruthless mass killer was running amok, murdering scores of young people at his leisure, on the extremely well-known Labour Party summer-camp island of Utøya, just 24 driving-miles from Oslo city centre (where the government quarter had just been bombed and where there was - therefore- an exceptionally strong police presence, many of them armed and all of them on high alert).

(Why do I have to spell this out?)

We live in the year 2011, when young people in wealthy Western countries all have cellphones and other means of sending messages instantly. Not even the dullest plod in Scandinavia can have failed to understand those countless cries for help immediately, or to have recognised their extreme urgency and seriousness - especially after the Oslo bombing.

The message could literally not have been clearer. Yet it took the cops AND medics 90 or maybe even 100 minutes to reach that island. I'd say that requires some serious explaining. Wouldn't you?

ON EDIT: NB: Those young people at the summer camp came from all over Norway. Many of them called their friends and parents, who in turn will have called the police immediately from wherever they happened to be in Norway. So this refutes Dradin's argument that all calls to the police about the Utøya crisis will have gone through the same slow, clueless, helpless, rural bottleneck in the Utøya region.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby lupercal » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:36 am

Dradin Kastell wrote:Finally, one nugget of information I found out while searching stuff on the Norwegian police, etc: the same municipality, Hole, is home to the Sentralanlegget, the war headquarters of the Norwegian government. Built in the 60s to house the royal family and key leaders in the case of nuclear war and other emergencies, this facility is still operational today. I don't know if this has any bearing on the attacks, but it is an interesting data point.

It's interesting, but doesn't it make the official story even less plausible? Also, by my calculation, Utoya is an under-two-minute swim from the shore, and according to wiki, a major international highway, E16, passes by the shore. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the cops to get their fat asses over there in under ten minutes from the first call, with or without a leaky canoe.

Swim calculation: 1,600 feet = 0.303030303 miles x 60 min per hr / 10 miles per hr = 1.8 minutes.

Utoya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utøya

E16:
E 16 is the designation of a main west-east road through Northern Ireland, Scotland and Norway, from Derry to Oslo, via Glasgow, Edinburgh, previously by ferry to Bergen, Voss, through the Gudvanga Tunnel, Lærdal, through the Lærdal Tunnel, over Filefjell to Fagernes, Hønefoss and ends in Sandvika, just outside Oslo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E16
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:41 am

Weren't there initially reports that there were explosives on the island as well that didnt detonate? Also, couldn't the police have used a sniper to kill the guy?
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:59 am

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:Weren't there initially reports that there were explosives on the island as well that didnt detonate?


There were. It's something else we've heard nothing more about.

Also, couldn't the police have used a sniper to kill the guy?


Indeed they could. Or even just to disable him. (It was reported that they used tear gas from the air to do just that, but this too was later "revised". Maybe the anonymous "police spokesman" dreamt it.) Although Joe suggests the opposite, it did not necessarily require a giant heavily-armoured bad-tempered SWAT team packed dangerously and uncomfortably into an entirely unsuitable chopper. One marksman would have been enough.

At the very least, it would have made it look as if the police were making some kind of minimal fucking effort to at least show their presence and deter or intimidate or incapacitate the murderer.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby a11235813 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:28 am

Harvey wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:
Harvey wrote:I repeat: Facebook knows the IP of all edits to that page since the account began on the 17th.


Well. OK.

I don't know what to say, except to suggest that you mail this information quickly to as many honest and -- if possible -- influential people as possible. You might start with Norwegian journalists. It's a very small and egalitarian country, and right now they're far less likely than either Brit or Yank hacks to be intimidated by dumb sneers about "conspiracy theories".

There is also a Norwegian Indymedia, where you can certainly get the information out quickly and receive quick feedback in English, no doubt including contact details for journalists worth contacting.



I've sent emails, with relevant links, to Glen Greenwald at Salon and to Norway Indymedia. Let's see.


Not sure if this has been addressed before (I was a bit late getting into this thread and am still catching up) -- Facebook and other internet scale web applications (with millions of users) have a slightly different data architecture when compared to regular database-backed (Oracle, MySQL, and other ACID databases) [*] applications servicing a smaller number of users. The technical term is 'eventual consistency'. What this means in practice is that when somebody updates a data item, at what time this update can be taken as 'committed' and guaranteed to be seen by all is variable, and the only guarantee is that eventually all the nodes will be replicated with the updated information. So the fact that the update appeared at 12:12 AM GMT may not mean that the person updated the status at around the same (more or less, that is) time.

[*] Facebook actually does use MySQL, but employs something called sharding, were different users' data are stored in different database instances. But the point wrt eventual consistency still stands.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby vanlose kid » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:18 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:...

The thing is if there is more to this then its a fucking massive more, cos its about race war and ultimately nationalistic violent fascism. Right at a time in history when its peak fucking everything and the power structures that were formed as a result of ww2 are finally starting to fall.

But my intuition on this is this guy is acting alone ... ish. this is sposed to be the age of the super empowered individual. It'd be easy enough to do ... think about it - if you were prepared to kill 80 kids at a school camp the rest would be easy. But the implications of what he is trying start are ... well either he has a massive messiah complex or there's more going on here.

Killing heaps of kids is pretty full on. Lots of energy unleased there. What eats that suffering? Same thing that feeds of kids in somalia I spose.

I'm wondering what eats the hysteria and hype tho...

A european nationalist movement that resists the spread of Islam in the tradition of Vlad Tepes?


picking up on this aspect and the Fjordman connection (the two are easily mistaken). Fjordman is still posting at Gates of Vienna. have been reading through a few of these sites and the language and "ideas" aired are no different from what Breivik put into his manifesto. it's completely "normal", the consensus seems to be, "he may think and say the same things we do, but he can't possibly be one of us, because he did what he did". but reading samples like this piece by Fjordman has me thinking that the difference and distance isn't that far or big. they all want Ragnarok, Breivik just decided he would spark it off.

Monday, May 02, 2011
Preparing for Ragnarök
The Fjordman Report

The noted blogger Fjordman is filing this report via Gates of Vienna.
For a complete Fjordman blogography, see The Fjordman Files. There is also a multi-index listing here.


Predicting the future is a difficult exercise.

The City of God was written by Augustine of Hippo soon after the city of Rome was sacked by the Visigoths in AD 410. This shocked him and his contemporaries, yet he apparently did not understand that he was watching the death of an entire civilization. Augustine himself died while the Vandals were about to sack his city.

The Scottish economist Adam Smith published his The Wealth of Nations in 1776 during the early stages of the Industrial Revolution in Britain, yet he did not see this world-historical transformation coming. Augustine and Smith were both very smart men, but even they could not foresee the near future or understand the full force of changes that was underway in their own lifetimes. Individuals who were much cleverer than I have been spectacularly wrong about the future. There is a very substantial risk that I will make the same mistake now, but I’ll try.

I have increasingly come to suspect that Western civilization is not merely under threat, but that it is in fact already dead. It probably died many years ago; we just didn’t notice at the time. The West is currently in such an advanced state of decline that a collapse of sorts can no longer be avoided. The established momentum is too great, and the ruling oligarchs are not even trying to hit the brakes. A collapse will happen. It is only a question of how we deal with this, and whether we manage to carve out a good-sized homeland for our people afterwards.

I believe that the European Union will disintegrate within the coming generation, that the USA in its present form will not survive his century and that we will be facing a full structural, political, ideological and economic crisis within the coming generation followed by serious social and ethnic strife. While the twentieth century was the bloodiest century in human history so far, I fear that the twenty-first century will eventually surpass it, if for no other reason than the world is much more populous than it was in 1914 or 1939.

As Jacques Barzun, the French-born American teacher, author and historian of ideas, puts it in From Dawn to Decadence, “How a revolution erupts from a commonplace event — tidal wave from a ripple — is cause for endless astonishment. Neither Luther in 1517 nor the men who gathered at Versailles in 1789 intended at first what they produced at last. Even less did the Russian Liberals who made the revolution of 1917 foresee what followed. All were as ignorant as everybody else of how much was about to be destroyed. Nor could they guess what feverish feelings, what strange behavior ensue when revolution, great or short-lived, is in the air.” Mr. Barzun also reminds us that “When people accept futility and the absurd as normal, the culture is decadent. The term is not a slur; it is a technical label. A decadent culture offers opportunities chiefly to the satirist.” The West today is clearly decadent.

The Russian-born author Alexander Boot was a philology graduate of Moscow University under the Communist system during the Cold War and lectured on English and American literature before getting into trouble with the KGB, the secret police of the Soviet Union. He emigrated to the West in 1973, only to discover that the West he admired and was seeking no longer existed. This inspired a life-long quest for an explanation, some of it detailed in his book How the West Was Lost. He sees Western history as a prolonged internal struggle between two different beings which he calls Modman and Westman. Saint Paul was a Greco-Roman Christian and the first Westman. Modman saw himself as close to divine; Jesus Christ, God as man, had been replaced by Modman as God, but the old God had to die first.

He believes that non-European immigrants serve as a protected class used as a battering ram by the ruling elites to systematically smash and demolish the nation-states of the white West. Laws against “racism” are therefore not meant to punish criminal acts, but rather to intimidate any opposition among Europeans by always keeping whites fearful and mentally on the defensive. “They are on the books to reassert the power of the state to control not just the citizens’ actions but, more important, their thoughts.” Boot warns that “A state capable of prosecuting one person for his thoughts is equally capable of prosecuting thousands, and will predictably do so when it has consolidated its power enough to get away with any outrage.” For this reason, the author predicts that “more and more people in Western Europe and North America will be sent to prison not for something they have done, but for something they have said.”

Alexander Boot’s basic conclusion is that the West is dead, but as a Christian man he believes in resurrection and in the possibility of a life after death. Perhaps that is not a bad summary.

According to the French writer Guillaume Faye, for the first time humanity as a whole is threatened by a cataclysmic crisis that is likely to begin in the decade before 2020 — a crisis provoked by degradation of the ecosystems and geopolitical contests for scarce resources like agricultural land, oil, and above all water; by the fragility of an international economic order based on speculation and the massive indebtedness of democratic states; by the return of epidemics; by the rise of terrorism and nuclear proliferation; by the growing aggressiveness of Islam’s world offensive; and by the dramatic ageing of European populations, whose below replacement-level birth rates are confronted with rapidly growing masses of young people in the dysfunctional countries of the global South, coupled with mass migrations to the North.

This convergence of catastrophes will mark the transition from one era to another. The USA will most likely cease to be the leading world power by mid-century, perhaps cease to exist at all in its present form. The global center of power will then move back to Eurasia, where it has almost always been previously. The strongest power will probably be China or what Faye calls “Euro-Siberia” — a federated alliance between the peoples of Europe plus Russia. He doesn’t think this is literally the end of the world, merely the end of the world as we know it. Something new may arise from these events, since Europe is a civilization of metamorphosis.

Faye predicts two possibilities for European civilization over the coming century: regeneration based on a resurgence of ancestral values, or else disappearance. Europe, especially the western half of the Continent, is currently being invaded. This is coupled with an incredible masochism on the part of Europeans themselves. Only a terrifying crisis can awaken them, and war is the most merciless of selective forces; a people that abandons its will to power inevitably perishes. A “mental AIDS,” a virus of nihilism, has severely weakened their natural defenses. Consequently, Europeans have succumbed to self-extinction. The primary symptom of this is “xenophilia,” a systematic preference for the Other over the Self.

The current advanced state of decadence owes much to the secularization of Christian charity and its modern egalitarian offshoot, human rights. In the widest possible sense it was the same civilizational genius that gave the world the concepts of universal gravitation and universal human rights. After the unprecedented successes of the Scientific Revolution, post-Enlightenment Europeans fell so much in love with the power of their own ideas that they ultimately came to define their very existence as one big idea, hence the concept of an “idea nation” or “proposition nation” was born. The leaders of this were the Americans and the French, whose Revolutions in the late 1700s came to view their countries as universal republics. This ideal was not and could not be implemented at that time, but two centuries later, coupled with the rise of global communications, it won out over ethnic identification.

Faye believes that Europe now faces a danger unparalleled in its history and refuses to see it. It has been colonized by peoples from the South. This non-European invasion began in the 1960s and was largely self-engendered, by politicians contaminated with Marxist ideas, by an employer class greedy for cheap labor, and by Utopian humanitarian ideals or misplaced post-colonial guilt. Illegal immigrants/foreign colonizers are very rarely repatriated, but receive lavish social welfare benefits handed out to them by anti-white forces in control of the state:

A race war is foreseeable now in several European countries, a subterranean war that will be far more destructive than ‘terrorism.’ The White population is being displaced, a sort of genocide is being carried out against it with the complicity or the abstention of the ruling class, the media, and the politicians, for the ideology these collaborating elites uphold is infused with a pathological hatred of their own people and a morbid passion for miscegenation. The state’s utopian plan for ‘republican integration’ has nevertheless failed because it assumed peaceful coexistence between foreigners and natives, non-Whites and Whites, was possible in a single territory. Our rulers haven’t read Aristotle, who taught that no city can possibly be democratic and orderly if it isn’t ethnically homogeneous… European societies today are devolving into an unmanageable ethnic chaos.


He believes that a rebirth of European civilization in a different form is possible, but not inevitable. Whether or not this transformation takes place depends upon to what extent Europeans manage to restore healthy societies while drawing upon their historical memory, rather than having Islamic values imposed upon them. He thinks they should adopt a policy of Europe First. Others take care of their own problems, first and foremost. Whites must learn to do the same. It is their future existence that is under threat, not that of Africans or Pakistanis:

The twenty-first century will be a century of iron and storms. It will not resemble those harmonious futures predicted up to the 1970s. It will not be the global village prophesied by Marshall MacLuhan in 1966, or Bill Gates’ planetary network, or Francis Fukuyama’s end of history: a liberal global civilization directed by a universal state. It will be a century of competing peoples and ethnic identities. And paradoxically, the victorious peoples will be those that remain faithful to, or return to, ancestral values and realities — which are biological, cultural, ethical, social, and spiritual — and that at the same time will master technoscience. The twenty-first century will be the one in which European civilization, Promethean and tragic but eminently fragile, will undergo a metamorphosis or enter its irremediable twilight.



American political scientist Samuel P. Huntington’s Clash of Civilizations thesis from the 1990s has been accused of simplification, but he should be credited with placing the significance of ethno-cultural blocs on the radar of global politics. He is also right in pointing out that this era is characterized by a West with declining influence. The tectonic plates of global power are shifting. Future historians may label this age “the retreat of the Western world order.” The West is no longer strong enough to carry the rest of the world on its shoulders. We will face generations of turmoil until a new equilibrium is found. These massive changes and the perceived weakness of a civilization that has been dominant globally for centuries could very well ignite a new world war. Multiculturalism and the inability or unwillingness of Western nations to uphold their borders from foreign infiltration is viewed by others as an invitation for attack and a signal that the West is weak and ripe for conquest.

This century may well be dominated by a resurgence of ethno-cultural blocs. Europeans need to break with the “presentism” in which they are currently sunk and learn to see themselves again (as do many others) as a “long-living people,” bearers of a great past and hopefully a great future, too. The mental revolution needed to bring about this change in European attitudes is only possible through a gigantic crisis, a violent shock, which is already on its way. The present system is founded on a belief in miracles and a myth of indefinite progress. It is bound to collapse, but we should remember that history is open-ended and presents many unexpected twists and turns. Opportunities will arise. We need to be able to grasp them.

I’ve been trying to think centuries ahead about what is needed for European survival. The bottom line is: We need our own territories again, our own countries. History has shown us, for instance in Latin America or in parts of Central Asia, that once the European genetic percentage drops below a certain threshold, the resulting population neither looks nor acts like Europeans. Experience also tells us that if two or more different populations inhabit the same land, they will eventually mix. In combination, this means that the only way European civilization can flourish in the long run is if we have large territories specifically dedicated for people who are overwhelmingly of demographic European stock. In those cases where this has been lost it needs to be reestablished. Ideas matter, but culture primarily follows genes.

All nations around the world try to maintain their ethnicity. Only in white majority Western countries do the authorities wage a deliberate demographic and cultural war against the majority population. This is evil, and Europeans have every right to defend themselves against evil policies. Whites have shown the ability to create societies and social systems that transcend the narrow confines of clan, tribe and ethnic nepotism. This is in many ways a great character trait, but it can also be our Achilles’ heel if it is weaponized and turned against us. We must recognize that we are unusual, and that our values are far from universally shared.

White Westerners have given other peoples, including actively hostile tribes, the tools needed to multiply beyond their native capacity, the transportation needed to travel to our countries, the human rights legislation needed to settle here and the welfare states needed to exploit us.

This situation is intensified by the fact that globalization of communications and transportation, ironically to a large extent created by Western inventions, puts severe pressure on our nations in ways which were unthinkable a few generations ago. When the Christian Gospels were written down at the end of the first century AD, the population of the Roman Empire was perhaps 60 million people. This is less than the annual population growth in the early twenty-first century. In other words: The global population grows by more than another Roman Empire every single year. Our system wasn’t designed to cope with such numbers.

The various cultures and religions of the world have experienced time in different ways. We are most accustomed to a linear system deriving from the Judeo-Christian tradition, which sees a clear progression from the creation of the world through a long series of events to a last time, a Day of Judgment and an end to all history. Modern science also tends to start with a universe created at a specific point in time, the “Big Bang,” although its end is yet uncertain.

As Parkes states in Gods and Men — The Origins of Western Culture, “The most significant feature of the Jewish heritage, however, was its view of history. Other ancient peoples had believed in a golden age, but had always located it in the past at the beginning of time. Israel alone looked forward to a golden age in the future and interpreted history as a meaningful and progressive movement toward this Messianic consummation. Originating in tribalistic loyalty, and reflecting the determination of a weak people to retain its identity in spite of conquest and enslavement, the Messianic hope was given universal scope by the prophets and became the end toward which all earthly events were moving. In various manifestations, religious and secular, spiritual and materialistic, it became one of those dynamic social myths which give meaning and direction to human life and which have more influence on human action than any rational philosophy. Unless its importance is understood, the development not merely of the Jewish people but also of the whole Western world becomes unintelligible.”

Ragnarök (“Doom of the Gods” or “Judgment of the Powers”), the end of the world as we know it, will mean the death of the main god Odin and his son Thor. This is described in the Icelandic Völuspá (“Prophecy of the Seeress [Völva]”), the first poem of the Poetic Edda and one of our most important sources to Norse mythology, although it was written down in the Christian era. Odin will meet his end against the giant wolf Fenrir. Thor will fight against Jörmungandr (Mighty-snake), a giant sea creature known as the Midgard Serpent that bites itself on its own tail and surrounds the human world, called Midgard or the Middle Earth. Thor will fight heroically and vanquish the beast, but after walking nine steps he will fall dead from its venom. Yet after all this destruction and moral chaos has ended, a new world will arise from the sea. Some of the gods will survive, as will two humans who will then repeople the Earth.

While Ragnarök is the end of the world as we know it, it is not “the end of history” in the Judeo-Christian sense. A new world will arise from its ashes. Our goal should be to sow seeds that can grow into strong trees bearing fine fruits in the future. Whether this post-catastrophic culture — which will most likely have a different mythology and maybe a different concept of morality to go with it compared to what we have now — will be a revived version of Western civilization or an entirely new version of European civilization I do not know, but I tend to suspect the latter. It is hard to predict such things, but a crucial challenge will no doubt be to break with the mentality of “progress” towards “equality,” since a toxic combination of these two concepts is burying us under dangerous and biologically unsustainable egalitarian ideals.

The coming crash will at the very least lead to an ideological-political paradigm shift and the rise of a new mythology to replace the post-WWII “suicide paradigm” of misunderstood anti-Nazism and deranged altruism. At worst, the discontinuity will be so long and severe that what emerges on the other side will be a completely new civilization, another generation of European civilization, just like what emerged during the Middle Ages was a different civilization from that of Greco-Roman Antiquity. The transition between the first and second generations of European civilization took centuries. History generally moves faster now than it did back then, but I suspect such a transition will nevertheless take several generations.

How a new civilization would look like I do not know. Medieval Europeans used different elements of the Greco-Roman legacy creatively and added innovations on top of this. Generation Two of European civilization contained within itself aspects of Generation One, but also had elements of sharp discontinuity. This will probably be the case next time, too.

As Geoffrey Parker reminds us in The Cambridge History of Warfare, the overall aim of Western strategy “almost always remained the total defeat and destruction of the enemy, and this contrasted starkly with the military practice of many other societies.” He highlights the combination of technological innovation and discipline as key traits of the Western military tradition. It is not true that Europeans are particularly ethnocentric; if anything, it is the total lack of ethnocentrism that constitutes our greatest problem today. However, it is true that in addition to being great explorers, artists and scientists we have also been great warriors when circumstances have called for this. This particular cultural trait is, admittedly, very well hidden in our age of decadence, betrayal and suicidal tolerance, but it can be brought back.

We will most likely enter a prolonged period of great turbulence and upheaval; the bubble of welfare state “cradle-to grave security” is about to burst. This process will be painful, but necessary, and is in any case more or less inevitable by now. In 1911 Western Europeans still ruled much of the world. In 2011 we don’t even rule the suburbs in our own major cities, and some learned observers seriously predict the end of European civilization altogether.

This also implies that for the first time in centuries we are the underdogs. There are many historical examples, from the Persian invasions of ancient times to the Muslim invasions later, where Europeans have performed at our best when we have been the underdogs. Perhaps we can do the same once the Multicultural madness retreats. We need to make sure, though, that those who have championed the toxic ideas of Multiculturalism and mass immigration of alien tribes disappear with it. If that happens, we can give our descendants a fresh start and lay the foundations for a new Renaissance, where European civilization can flourish once more.

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http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2011/05/preparing-for-ragnarok.html


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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:26 am

Image

Anders Behring Breivik's first court hearing will be held behind closed doors.

I wonder if the public will ever be allowed to see this guy, never mind hear him. Perhaps he is literally made of wax, or of wood, or of pixels. Maybe we'll get pastel drawings of the later court hearings.

Image

Andreas Hauss had already speculated that Breivik might well become an invisible, inaudible man, like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, of whom literally anything can be (and is) asserted, while neither his mere existence nor his guilt nor his independence of Western spooks are by any means established certainties.

If the Norway massacre really was a state-supported psyop, then it could turn out to be a highly effective one. For who's going to support The Monster's right to defend his monstrous words and deeds? Certainly not [the remains of] the left, who did no such thing with OBL or with KSM, and who will certainly be even less willing to demand a public platform, i.e. a fair and open trial, for a cartoon SS butcher. If "Al Qaeda" is in decline as a brand and as a cartoon bogeyman (having done sterling service for the last ten years), then The Evil Vikings may well function beautifully as a replacement horror, complete with similar traumatising media images of brutal mass murder. Not least because neo-Nazis, like violent Islamists, undoubtedly exist, and the two of them can be discreetly encouraged and played off against each other endlessly. Maybe, in fact, The Evil Vikings will give The Evil Islamists a new lease of life (if that's the word). And thus [the remains of] the left can be made even more pliable and acquiescent, and absorbed even further into the much more insidious & sophisticated fascism of the transnational anti-Terror security state.

I am scaring myself very effectively now, or else somebody else is. And when we're all scared of everybody all the time, you could call it Mission Accomplished.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Dradin Kastell » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:56 am

MacCruiskeen wrote:
ON EDIT: NB: Those young people at the summer camp came from all over Norway. Many of them called their friends and parents, who in turn will have called the police immediately from wherever they happened to be in Norway. So this refutes Dradin's argument that all calls to the police about the Utøya crisis will have gone through the same slow, clueless, helpless, rural bottleneck in the Utøya region.


Okay, put this another way. In Norway, the police emergency number connects one directly to the police district where they are calling from, there is no national emergency centre. Any call in the initial spate of calls from Utoya and surrounding areas went to the Nordre Buskerud centre. The secondary calls from friends, relatives and so on went to their respective police district centres. But calls/information from other districts were/was forwarded to the Nordre Buskerud centre, the local police then called Oslo and upon officially requesting backup were told to wait for the "SWAT team".

So it doesn't really matter where in Norway one calls the police: the local police will be the first responders and it is in their purview to alert any special units in Oslo if they see a need for assistance.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:11 am

OK, Dradin, but the point still stands: unless all of the local police AND all of the Oslo police were completely cretinous or clinically insane, they cannot have failed to recognise the extreme seriousness and urgency of all those desperate phone calls about exactly the same thing. Yet neither the local police nor the Oslo police responded with anything resembling urgency.

And where were the emergency medical teams? And where were the Norwegian intelligence services? And what about the search-and-rescue copters, which (I've just read) are operated directly by the Norwegian Air Force? None of them turned up either, or at least not until 90 minutes after the shooting began.

All this at a time when men, women and children were being shot dead at a rate of about one every minute.

- By the way, I don't know Norway first-hand at all. But I've now read at least two interviews (in Dagbladet) with local people who were at least as baffled and angry as I am about how grotesquely long it took the cops to get there. These locals kept phoning the police and they kept getting ignored or fobbed off or told to wait or ordered to get themselves (!) to safety. By the time the police finally did arrive, local civilians -- and tourists from a campsite, including a German bloke and two Finnish lesbians -- had already gone out in boats and rescued about 250 kids from the water, and even from the island of Utoya itself. Some of those hardy lake-dwellers made four or five rescue trips in their boats, while the belated cops claimed not to be able to find a boat on the lakeside at all.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Harvey » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:23 am

A neo-Nazi who hates Hitler and kills white children exclusively. We have never seen him except in helicopter footage or faked photos. We know nothing about him except from two web pages created a week ago and a dodgy dossier.The court session is going to be closed to the public. It'll be interesting to see what we'll discover next.
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Re: Huge explosion in Oslo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:42 am

MacCruiskeen wrote:
Jesus, Joe, you're really splitting hairs now. Why?


I've been on fire crews that have copped criticism for being "to slow to respond" despite the fact that we were as quick as we could be. The people who complained had unreal expectations of what we were capable of, and I suspect you may be doing that Mac. After being checked out it turned out we responded as quickly as could be expected in the circumstances.

Man thats exactly what you are accusing people of doing here. Thats how it seems to me anyway. I'm happy to concede your point if I had more info - enough to satisfy me. You seem to think I'm just doing this for fun, but I'm not.

I've also been in situations and spent many hours talking to others who have been in worse situations, where it all goes to shit. You think you're getting good info and your not. You can't contact people. You're expecting a water bombing helicopter and it ends up 4 ridges away looking for you. That only takes a minute to fix if the comms are good. You're told the weather should do this and it does that. People with personal agendas are saying different things further up the chain of command etc etc.

ITs possible he was coached beforehand on how to generate maximum confusion and take advantage of it as well.
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