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Re: <5

Postby compared2what? » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:20 am

Plutonia wrote:What you say makes sense C2W. But then there is Aaron Barr.

^Totally. I wasn't saying: "Aw, don't be silly!" Because (a) nothing silly about it; and (b) nothing wrong with silly, anyway.

I actually wasn't really saying much of anything. As usual. It was just that I suddenly saw that perhaps it had been unwise of me to simply up and post that stuff with as little remark as I had.

I guess that for some reason I hadn't fully realized that the part where I'd said, "Hey, you guys on the <5 thread! I'm going to the store! Want anything?" and you guys had said, "Yeah! Will you bring us back a LinkedIn page for Mike Cherni with -- justdrew, you've got cash, right? Great! -- C2W? Can you get us a Mike Cherni LinkedIn Page Deluxe with...um, one military contractor, some extra discord, chaos and confusion and a shake? Thanks!" didn't actually happen.

So you know, it took me a minute to come to my sensescatch up.

Fucking internet.

Anyway. My apologies again. I didn't mean to sound so intemperate, I was just on a whole other page.

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Re: <5

Postby justdrew » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:16 am

I do think it's kinda weird we're not hearing anything in the news about the Lake Vostok stuff, that's been a big deal for a long time, but everything's gone strangely quiet. Perhaps NASA has no more money to be involved and so have dropped their efforts to use a cryobot?

OOOOORRRRRRRRR...... Maybe it already went down and found... SOMETHING :shrug:


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Re: <5

Postby slomo » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:18 pm

Harvey wrote:
Mike Cherni, a forensic scientist who lives in New York City, dreamed of flying low over buildings he recognized in Manhattan. He and other passengers were upset. He felt an overwhelming sense of dread, then a tremendous impact, and that's when he woke up.


Two of my (self titled) categories of recurring dream as a child (late seventies, early eighties) were the 'Flying Low' through a city in an airliner, and the 'Big Building' dreams.

Although both categories were always filled with a sense of overwhelming peril, in the Big Building dreams I was always trying to escape from a huge building, usually traveling upward, and they usually culminated in falling from the top of a very high place upon reaching the outside, usually through a destroyed section of the building.

The dreams continued sporadically into adulthood, and the similarities did strike me, once the shock of 9/11 itself began to fade. There is of course the recognition also that my dreams are quite typical of dream imagery and events, or at least comprised of otherwise typical elements.

I just started reading this thread, having avoided it since its early inception because I thought it was about spam. I also had recurring dreams in young adulthood about being trapped in a very tall building. I also had a dream about 2 weeks before 9/11, where there was a giant wrecking ball knocking down buildings. A voice said "in your back yard" and I answered in a panicked voice, "nuclear?" and the voice replied, "No".

Also, I could not help but immediately notice how strongly the imagery of 911 matched the iconography of the Tarot card the Tower. While an apprentice scientist at the time, I still had an interest in matters occult (at least intellectually) and this weird mixing of two worlds was oddly jarring, in a way that made me understand instinctively that the material world is far more complex, more intersected with the "other" world, than I had previously supposed.
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Re: <5

Postby justdrew » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:09 am

Still interested in those scans Mike ! :thumbsup
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Re: <5

Postby psynapz » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:40 am

justdrew wrote:Lake Vostok is surely a fascinating subject
fairly good background: http://www.damninteresting.com/raiders-of-the-lost-lake/

Thanks Drew. Mike, are you aware of the lore surrounding Lake Vostok, particularly the whole "fill your pockets with salt" thing (detailed somewhere below)? I'm interested to know what of all this you were consciously aware of prior to the beginning of your Vostok dream experience, and when those dreams began happening (before the 9/11 dream, or after, and before 2001 at all?)

From http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/antarctica/antartica09.htm:
New Antarctica Mystery

Researchers have uncovered a Martian meteorite in Antarctica, one of only about 30 known Mars space rocks on Earth.

The specimen was found in December (2003) on an ice field about 466 miles (745 kilometers) from the South Pole, by a research team financed by NASA and supported by the National Science Foundation.

Scientists say the mineralogy, texture and oxidized nature of the rock are unmistakably Martian. At this point, there is no suggestion that the meteorite bears evidence of fossilized life.

~USA Today for July 22, 2004
"Piece of Mars found in Antarctica"

More recently, film spectaculars like John Carpenter’s The Thing (1982) and X-Files: Fight the Future (1998) have employed the white continent as a hideout for extraterrestrial forces, whether arrived by accident or as part of a grim conquest operation, and the efforts made by human protagonists to overcome said unknown quantities.

The electronic newspaper Antarctic Sun, which soon became the main source of information on the Lake Vostok magnetic anomaly, stated that during the initial flight of the SOAR (Support Office for Aero-physical Research), aimed at conducting magnetic resonance imaging over the area, the magnetometer recorded an increase of 1,000 nanoteslas beyond the 60,000 nanoteslas which characterized the Vostok Station.

Scientists had expected to find magnetic anomalies in the range of 500 to 600 nanoteslas in areas where volcanic material could be located, but the ranges encountered were simply startling.
“This anomaly is so large that it cannot be the product of a daily change in the magnetic field,” stated Michael Studinger, one of the researchers involved in the mapping endeavor.
Also significant was the sheer size of the anomaly: 65 by 46 square miles. According to the mission’s geological team, the anomaly’s size and severity pointed to the fact that geological changes had taken place under the lake, suggesting the possibility that it was a place where “the earth’s crust was thinner.”

The Interrupted Press Conference
“Good morning. Could I speak with Debra Shingteller?”

“Of course, one moment,” replied the switchboard operator at NASA headquarters in Washington, D.C.
This was my second attempt at contacting the protagonist of the extremely bizarre press conference allegedly held by NASA regarding its involvement, or rather, the sudden end of its involvement, in the Lake Vostok project.

It appeared that the agency’s budgetary cuts had been so severe that not even background music could be heard while I was on hold.
“I’m sorry, sir. She’s not in at the moment.”

“Ah...could you please give me her voicemail?”

“Of course. Hold on, please.”
Although I doubted that the elusive Ms. Shingteller would actually return my message, I thought that it was still worth a try.

I was surprised, however, when the voice on the answering machine did not correspond to that of the spokesperson, but to another functionary of the NASA Public Information Office. It would appear that Ms. Shingteller had taken some time off after the conference that would make her a household name in conspiracy circles around the world.

My question, in any event, was straightforward: why didn’t the press release regarding the sudden distancing of NASA and JPL with the Lake Vostok project appear among the ones publicly available on the web (http://www.nasa.gov)?

The communiqué which had vanished from the electronic medium would have read thus:
“ANTARCTIC CARTOGRAPHIC MISSION INTERRUPTED DUE TO N.S.A. OVERRIDE,” adding that NASA spokesperson Ms. Shingteller had alluded to “matters of national security” which necessitated the termination of both space exploration agencies’ involvement in the research initiatives at Lake Vostok.
After saying these words, the spokeswoman was escorted from the podium while her assistant responded to the inevitable questions from the press core with a rote sentence:
“The project has been cancelled due to environmental reasons.”
Shortly after this event, JPL’s Frank D. Carsey tried to put an end to the rumors by saying that the wrong acronym had been employed, and “NSA intervention” should have been “NSF intervention,” given the National Science’s Foundation assumption of the NASA’s drilling operations, arising from the fact that the space agency’s funds had been exhausted.

This did nothing to allay the mystery.

Word spread over the Internet that researchers stationed at Norway’s Amundsen base, 150 miles east of Vostok, had witnessed the arrival of a large quantity of equipment and personnel in the study area. Australian sources remarked that the two women who had taken the challenge of crossing Antarctica by skiing from one end to the other had been forcibly evacuated.

Apparently both skiers had been transferred to the Australian polar base and from there to Samoa by an elite U.S. Marines unit, despite the protests of Australian personnel.

Another rumor held that Russian scientists had been evicted from the Vostok base by U.S. Navy SEALS (what must Vladimir Putin have thought about all this?) while an exodus of personnel from the U.S. bases was underway: Seven individuals, all of them employed by Raytheon, which provides support services for the American polar bases, were evacuated for medical reasons, while another four departed from the McMurdo base voluntarily.

According to statements made on the Art Bell Show, two of departees from the South Pole were suffering from an ailment about which they refused to comment.

Much was made about a comment voiced by the physician in charge at McMurdo to the medical officer who was coming in to replace him:
“Fill your pockets with salt” - apparently a phrase commonly employed in the nuclear industry referring to the taking of iodine tablets in order to prevent any harm to the thyroid gland in the event of a nuclear crisis.
Even more startling was a statement posted on the Internet and attributed to Mike Bara, who coordinates the Enterprise Mission’s “South Pole Update.”

The statement supposedly suggested that the short supply or complete lack of salt at the South Pole at the end of the Antarctic summer, at a time when sufficient quantities ought to be found after seasonal revictualing, suggested the possibility that the salt was being consumed by workers due to high levels of radioactivity - suggesting the possibility that the source of Lake Vostok’s heat could have been radioactive in nature.

From http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_underground01e.htm:
One of the first things pointed out to us is that the phrase "filling your pockets with salt" - as reported in news stories about the replacement doctor being asked to bring salt packets to the South Pole, literally in her jacket pockets - is actually a term commonly used in the nuclear industry. It refers to the practice of taking iodine pills to shield people’s thyroids during a nuclear emergency.

According to this source, "fill your pockets with salt" is industry lingo for "pop the iodine pills, we’re radioactive here."

Now, in the absence of iodine pills - which would certainly not be available in any significant quantity in a nuclear free zone like the Antarctic - the alternative would be to take large quantities of iodized salt.


This would neatly explain the shortage (in fact, absence) of salt at the Pole -- at a time when there should be plenty left in the supplies brought in at the beginning of the calendar year (end of the Antarctic Summer). In our "scenario," it’s been used up -- not just by workers under prolonged outside exposure to the dehydrating conditions of the Pole itself, but perhaps to high levels of radioactivity incurred in their pursuit of a "Special Project" on the Continent!

This would also explain the need for a sudden and unprecedented extraction of a dozen Raytheon Polar Services employees from the Continent yesterday. Their "illness" could be directly related to radiation exposure, and Raytheon did confirm to an Enterprise contact in New Zealand last night, that two of the extracted employees were in "critical but stable" condition. The question of the day, however, is what exactly could they have been exposed to -- if they were "exposed" -- that was radioactive?

Under the terms of several international treaties to which the United States is a prime signatory, the Antarctic Continent is a rigidly-controlled, nuclear-free zone. Even the reactor which used to power McMurdo Station was removed in 1993. There are not supposed to be any nuclear devices, of any kind in Antarctica ... at all!

One possibility that has been mentioned to explain this current, highly anomalous situation (the emergency evacuations), is that if workers were able to drill through the ice to Lake Vostok itself, it could be that the source of "internal heating" in the Lake is itself radioactive.

However, radioactivity generated by such a process would be insufficient to cause radiation sickness in humans -- certainly in a "short" time frame of mere months. The only viable explanation remaining for "a case of radiation sickness" is if a radioactive device was discovered under the ice ... or ... if the act of drilling through the ice itself was what inadvertently exposed the workers to significant radioactivity.

From Investigate Managzine June/July 2001 (what a summer...) http://www.investigatemagazine.com/pdf's/junjul3.pdf:
So what’s really going on in Antarctica? The emer-
gency evacuation by New Zealand Airforce Her-
cules of 11 US Raytheon employees raised more
than a few eyebrows around the world, particu-
larly because of the secrecy surrounding the circum-
stances of the emergency.
For starters, mid-winter flights to the ice in total dark-
ness, and where the temperature is low enough to freeze
the plane’s fuel and oil within minutes, not to mention the
cost, mean something fairly significant must have taken
Raytheon initially reported two people would be airlifted
out with undisclosed medical conditions. Then word was
released to the media that at least four people required
medical evacuations. Then the media were informed that
a further seven Raytheon staff were being hauled off the ice
on the same evac flight, for undisclosed personal reasons.
Upon arrival in Christchurch, security personnel kept
the news media and television crews well away from any
chance of filming the affected personnel disembarking from
the flight.
Raytheon’s man in Christchurch, John Sherve, did con-
firm that four staff were en route to hospital, two of them
in “critical but stable condition”.
However, when TV cameras caught up with one alleged
Raytheon staff member in hospital, there was no sign of
life threatening head trauma as suggested.
Although Sherve ridiculed what he described as some
“out there” reports on the Art Bell show in the US, and
denied that any staff had been affected by radiation, his
explanation for the urgent message to medics heading
down to “fill your pockets with salt” was “yes, they were
told that. They’ve run out of cooking salt.”

With salt a critical commodity on the ice, and McMurdo
at the start of an Antarctic winter, commentators have
expressed doubt that the base would run out of salt so
soon, or that such a message would be passed to doc-
tors, rather than added to the usual base shopping list.
But the phrase “fill your pockets with salt” is also nuclear
industry idiom for “Houston, we have a problem”. Iodine,
an ingredient of iodised salt, is an emergency medicine
for people exposed to radiation.
You can see now why people began to get suspicious.
Paranoia levels on the internet and in the media rose
dramtically amid news reports on New Zealand television
that the evacuation had been prompted by an all-out brawl
on the ice involving Raytheon personnel, a story which
conflicts with the “off the record” explanation of routine
personal health problems.
So I return to the initial question: what’s really going on
on the ice?
For the first time, Investigate can confirm that US mili-
tary personnel have been dealing for some years with a
nuclear waste leak on the ice continent.
And there’s more than one. In 1964, a US military sat-
ellite crashed back into the atmosphere, scattering ra-
dioactive plutonium over a wide area, and in October of
2000 a scientific team reported extensive radioactive con-
tamination in an area of Antarctica, “consistent” with the
fallout from the nuclear-powered satellite.
But the second incident we are aware of is just as prob-
lematic. Intercepted US Naval communications, recorded
by some New Zealanders using sophisticated scanning
equipment, show a major radiation problem has emerged
The transmissions, recorded in 1992, revealed that a
number of nuclear powered RTG generators are in use in
Antarctica - the United States has never ratified the area’s
nuclear free status. But one of the devices had developed a
major malfunction and was “slowly sinking into the icecap”
according to one of the US military transmissions recorded.
The McMurdo personnel, in discussing how to deal with
the rogue RTG, let slip valuable background material, such
as the fact that the US Environmental Protection Agency
had threatened to lay criminal charges against the US
Navy for mishandling “Antarctic radwaste” once it was
landed stateside. They also revealed that “permits to move
waste through Lyttelton have been granted by the NZ MOT,
no problems”, and that the amount of radioactive waste in
Antarctica is beginning to create some serious problems.
This, on top of some radioactive waste left over from
another damaged nuclear reactor allegedly removed from
McMurdo back in 1973. That waste is believed to have
been dumped just outside New Zealand’s 12 mile terrirotial
Official US Government documents, quoted by renowned
US nuclear expert Karl Grossman, contain the following
major titbit:
“Indeed, Star Wars, as conceived by the US national
nuclear laboratories and military, has had a large nuclear
component. Work proceeded secretly through the 1980s,
at a cost of $800 million, on development of rockets pro-
pelled by nuclear power to loft ‘giant weapons and other
military payloads into space’. From the start, scientists
calculated the risk in lives and took the gamble.
“A flight test of a nuclear rocket, codenamed
Timberwind, was planned, mostly across Antarctica to
avoid areas of human population, but the route also took
the rocket over New Zealand. Sandia National Laborato-
ries projected the likelihood of the atomic rocket crash-
ing there at 1 in 2,325.
“This may sound fairly good odds,” notes Professor
Grossman wryly, “but remember NASA put the odds of a
space shuttle crash at 1 in 100,000 before the Challenger
And the reason President Bush was able to dust off the
Star Wars project so easily is because the Clinton ad-
ministration allowed research to continue on Timberwind
and Star Wars at the rate of US$3 billion per year. At last
official report, Antarctica and New Zealand were still on
the flightpath.
Is it possible US nuclear rocket tests have accidentally
caused another Antarctic tragedy and that all this des-
perate midwinter activity is linked to that? Well if you
think it’s all just conspiracy theory and that you couldn’t
keep a secret like that, try this for size:
When Apollo 13 suffered its massive flight malfunction
en route to the Moon, and later portrayed in the 1995
movie, what NASA didn’t tell anyone who didn’t “need to
know” was that a nuclear generator similar to the one
melting through the icecap was on board the crippled
spacecraft containing about four kilos of plutonium 238.
“On the surface of the moon,” wrote astronaut Jim Lovell
later, “the tiny generator posed no danger to anybody.
But what, some people worried, would happen if the little
road of nuclear fuel never made it to the moon? Now it
was on its way home, heading for the fiery re-entry the
doomsayers had feared.”
As they struggled to regain control of Apollo 13, NASA
managed to jettison the plutonium reactor. According to
NASA documentation it was “successfully targeted to
deposit intact...off New Zealand, where it is effectively
isolated from man’s environment.”
Not having learnt its lesson, the American space agency
is now deploying satellites and rockets carrying more than
30 kilos of plutonium at a time, each with a risk of explo-
sion or malfunction, as is often seen on the news. Ex-
perts estimate that if one of these payloads breaks up in
the atomsphere, the death toll from radiation induced
cancers over subsequent decades could be in the region
of 30 to 40 million people worldwide.
When the Cassini rocket orbited Earth before taking off
for Saturn in 1999, NASA had a worst case scenario that
an accidental reentry into earth’s atmosphere meant that
“approximately five billion...could receive 99 percent or
more of the radiation exposure.”
The point of this history lesson? If you personally were
not aware that New Zealand almost got bounced by four
kilos of plutonium dust in the abortive Apollo 13 mission,
or that NZ and Antarctica are possible drop zones if a
nuclear rocket malfunctions, then why is it difficult to
accept that it might actually be a lot “hotter” down in Ant-
arctica than officials, and official-dependent news media
- have let on.
It is a verifiable fact that the United States has a nuclear
radiation leak problem in Antarctica. What we don’t yet
know is the source.

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Re: <5

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:21 am

:yay Lake Vostok :yay

don't forget the butter

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Re: <5

Postby Mike_Cherni » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:07 pm


A very brief post for now.

1. There is no big reveal. As of yet, anyway.

2. Your speculation about me is pointless.

In the end, I will insure that my life is an open book, available for anyone to look at.

3. I wasn't sure about posting here, but now I'm glad.

Some of your posts have been enormously helpful.

But some of you are getting carried away, just a tad.


I'll try to post more later this evening.

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Re: <5

Postby Mike_Cherni » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:17 am

"None are more hopelessly enslaved
than those who falsely believe they are free."

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Re: <5

Postby Mike_Cherni » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:22 am

F*cking brilliant, the document is corrupted by dropbox as it downloads.

The file is perfect on my end.

I give up.
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Re: <5

Postby Mike_Cherni » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:28 am

If someone wants to send me their email, I can link my dropbox account to theirs.

Don't have the energy or focus to continue with this bs any more, sorry to all those I've disappointed.

I'll be in touch.

Rupert, if you're reading this, likely I'm already gone.

EDIT AT 8:36 a.m. EST: (after a little sleep) Sorry, but when I don't sleep, I tend to sink rapidly into a dismal, easily frustrated funk, like the one displayed above.

Feeling better now, catch you all later.

Last edited by Mike_Cherni on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: <5

Postby justdrew » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:10 am

it downloaded fine. a birth certificate. no problem :thumbsup
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Re: <5

Postby Mike_Cherni » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:40 am

justdrew wrote:it downloaded fine. a birth certificate. no problem :thumbsup

both sides of the certificate?

if so, great.
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Re: <5

Postby justdrew » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:50 pm

Mike_Cherni wrote:
justdrew wrote:it downloaded fine. a birth certificate. no problem :thumbsup

both sides of the certificate?

if so, great.

yep, both sides
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Re: <5

Postby freemason9 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:39 pm

Mike_Cherni wrote:But some of you are getting carried away, just a tad.

it's no use fishin' 'less there's fish in the pond
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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Re: <5

Postby Nordic » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:38 am

Well my patience for this is down on "E"

Now you're just fucking with us Mike. It's getting old.

Bye now.
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