Are you Aspergian?

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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:39 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
Are you Aspergian?


Or, in other words: Are you smarter than most people, more sensitive than the plebs, vaguely alienated, kinda lovably wacky, and above all High-Functioning?

Take a bow: you have the hippest Personality Disorder available.

There's something wrong with this picture.

Image

Advanced Member of the Species iPad Case

Everyone knows that Aspies are Advanced Members of the Species... and if they don't let them check out this cool Aspie Tee.
$40.99

Image

http://www.autisticgenius.com/



The giveaway is that cutesy "Aspie" label. "I'm an Aspie!" Well, hot diggity, hats off to you. But people don't go around calling themselves Depries or Schizzies or Narcies or Alkies or Psychopathies, least of all on T-shirts and iPhone cases. I wonder why not. Maybe the Creative Head of some ad agency can look into it. (I bet he's an "Aspie" too.) Because vast potential markets are lying fallow as we speak, or rather as we maintain a charismatic brooding silence, Aspily.

Image

Yep, he always reminded me of me. No wonder I have an iPad.

Dare to be Different Itouch2 Case

Image

Whether you have autism, know someone with autism, or don't realize you know someone with autism, everyone should dare to be different.
$18.99


"Have autism"? "With autism"? Sic. There's something wrong with those words. Or is "autism" really like the flu, or like an iPad? Is it something you can just pick up, or buy?

Certainly, "Aspergers" is the DeLuxe edition. And I'm not buying it.



in this age of rationalism, individualism and consumer empowerment, being sick is a lifestyle choice.
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Simulist » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:48 pm

Mac, you're awesome.

And why the hell does everything need a label? It seems sometimes like anybody who isn't pasteurized, homogenized, and... well, beige... has to be labeled as "something."

Most of us are unnervingly similar, but we're also slightly different, thank God. That isn't a dysfunction, it might just be humanity's saving grace.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:29 pm

do you know where you fit in?

are you in need of a label?

find yourself!

take this test and be free.

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Simulist » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:39 pm

vanlose kid wrote:do you know where you fit in?

are you in need of a label?

find yourself!

take this test and be free.

*

VK, I took a test like that once to find my label -- and it said, "Expired!"

It was a terrifying experience. ;)
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:41 pm

^ ^

i just got rowlf.

:coolshades
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:44 pm

Thanks, Simulist. I blush, and words fail me. (Perhaps I too am an "Aspie"? We all have our cross to bear. [Polishes fingernails.] Maybe I can get a lucrative job in Silicon Valley, even though I know fuck-all about computers. I could be their Rain Man.)

Simulist wrote:And why the hell does everything need a label?


The Economy demands it. Nowadays, most people's jobs consist of labeling or classifying, in one way or another, even (or maybe especially) if school has labeled and classified them as High-Functioning. Press 1 for Customer Enquiries. Five Steps to a Successful Screenplay. The Ten Hottest Holiday Destinations in 2012. Are you an Aspie?

Taylorism and Fordism may be undead, but that's very far from dead. No wonder everyone's obsessed with zombies these days.

vanlose kid wrote:in this age of rationalism, individualism and consumer empowerment, being sick is a lifestyle choice.


For the High-Functioning, yes. The Low-Functioning, by contrast, tend to have their lifestyle choices made for them (by the High-Functioning). This enables them to work more efficiently in the call centre or (if they happen to be Asian) at the conveyor belt. If some of them eventually become Schizzies or Alkies or Depries, or if they even Go Postie someday, well, shit happens, and wear-and-tear takes its toll on any machine. Or maybe it's genetic? High Functioners are looking into it. Certainly it's nobody's fault.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:55 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:...

vanlose kid wrote:in this age of rationalism, individualism and consumer empowerment, being sick is a lifestyle choice.


For the High-Functioning, yes. The Low-Functioning, by contrast, tend to have their lifestyle choices made for them (by the High-Functioning). This enables them to work more efficiently in the call centre or (if they happen to be Asian) at the conveyor belt. If some of them eventually become Schizzies or Alkies or Depries, or if they even Go Postie someday, well, shit happens, and wear-and-tear takes its toll on any machine. Or maybe it's genetic? Certainly it's nobody's fault.




2:46 L-Boogie!


If they could stop this fruit
They would pop this root
Drop some loot
Treat us like we're prostitutes
Not this youth
See me in my khaki suit
God's recruit
From foreign even got salute
Tribal truth
Jah people can't be mute
Chant by youth
'til Bablylon can't regroup

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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Plutonia » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:40 pm

Well, well,

Did someone just say "Some of my best friends are Aspies"? And then suggest Ecstasy as a cure?

:lol:

Something that might be being overlooked - the Neurodiversity Movement, which is struggling to get cognitive variation recognized as part of natural human variation, as opposed to our current "disease-in-need-of-a-cure" model:
Autistic Pride Day is an Aspies for Freedom initiative, celebrated on June 18 each year. It is a day of celebration of the neurodiversity of people on the autism spectrum, compared by autism rights advocates to the civil rights and gay rights movements and even modeled after the Gay pride movement.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociologi ... _of_autism
For those who are familiar with spectrum traits, the idea of an Autistic Pride Parade is pretty funny, too:

Image

Organizers may want to re-think that strategy. :lol:

But seriously, this movement, like other civil rights movements, is pushing at the frontier of the cultural hegemony ie the internalized and institutionalized parameters of "normal" behavior and is following a demonstrable cycle of depathologization (just made up that word!): First you name it, then those who identify with it occupy that "outsider" space, then people sneer and jibe, then everybody's (well, maybe not everybody's) idea of what it is to be human expands to include what-ever-it-is.

So the Aspies in Silicon Valley have created for themselves a successful niche and yes, they powerful and elitist and hip. But they are a small subset of the Neurodiverse community and one of the difficulties facing Auties of the Neurodiverse community is the trend towards over-simplifying the spectrum into Aspergers = High Functioning/ Autism = Low Functioning and worse, the impulse to disconnect the two altogether. It's a false dichotomy though, since Aspie and Autie traits intermingle and some Aspies will be more Autie under certain conditions and vice versa.

I'm more of an Autie, though I'm relatively high functioning, my brain is very picture oriented and I have difficulty with language and am often "meaning blind" when I write - which means that I can't always tell the meaning of what I've written, especially when I've been drawing/painting. So I see it as a right brain/left brain dominance split, rather than one predicated on ability to function in the out-there-world.

Here's a primer on the Neurodiversity Movement, for those who are interested:
“ ‘Are You Sure, Sweetheart, That You Want to Be Well?’ ”: An Exploration Of The Neurodiversity Movement

Kathyrn Boundy [*]

During a discussion of the embodiment of cultural knowledge and the ways in which (forced) assimilation can be experienced as a violation enacted in the deepest level of self, Jacqui Alexander quotes the opening scene of Toni Cade Bambara’s The Salt Eaters, in which one character asks another, ‘Are you sure, sweetheart, that you want to be well?’ (as cited in Alexander, 2005, p.277). This question gets at the heart of many of the issues with which the Neurodiversity movement and the people who identify themselves as part of the communities from which this movement stems are concerned. What does it mean to be ‘well’? Who is it that gets to decide if one is well or not? By what criterion is this decision made? Is it the subjective experience of the patient which determines wellness? The opinion of the medical community? The extent to which a person is able to blend effectively into the social and economic world, regardless of the possible cost to the person doing the blending? In a world in which emotional, perceptual, intellectual and interpersonal experience can come in many forms and configurations, who is it that must accommodate whom and to what extent? To what extent do the so-called ‘neurotypical’ have the right to enforce their social and behavioral rules and expectations on those whose ways of experiencing themselves and the world differs from the accepted norm?

While the actual term ‘neurodiversity’ was not seen in print until 1997, The neurodiversity movement is often thought to have begun with a speech made by Jim Sinclair at the 1993 International Conference on Autism at Toronto, called ‘Don’t Mourn for Us.’ In this speech, Sinclair asked the parents of autistic children to try to understand that ‘Autism is a way of being. It is pervasive; it colors every experience, every sensation, perception, thought, emotion and encounter. It is not possible to separate the person from the autism’ (Sinclair, 1993). He further asks them to understand that what it is they feel they have lost, when they speak of ‘losing a child’ to autism, is not the actual child him/herself but the idea they had of what that child would be like, what kind of relationship and experiences they would have with the child. The parents of an autistic child, he says, have not lost a child, but an illusion. They must mourn the passing of the illusion and then accept the child on his/her own terms (Sinclair, 1993).

Jim Sinclair is himself autistic and his speech stood as a representative of the very beginnings of a self-advocacy movement for social acceptance and self determination that was developing within the autistic community in the mid-nineties. While there had always been autistic advocacy groups, it was not until recently that these groups were led by members of the autistic community themselves. Increasing use and availability of internet technology has played a key role in allowing autistic people, [1] who would otherwise be unable to meet, speak, and form a cohesive movement to gather and make their views, wishes and ways of perceiving themselves and their differences known.
...
Currently, the concept of neurodiversity has been expanded beyond the autistic community to include people who have been diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, bipolar disorder, dyslexia, Tourette’s syndrome and numerous other mental, intellectual and emotional differences. Activists from within the neurodiversity movement take the stance that all these differences should be seen as part of the spectrum of diverse human experiences and valued as such. They believe that neurodiverse individuals should not be forced to conform to the behavioral standards of ‘neurotypicals’ and that they should not be coerced through blatant or subtle means into taking unwanted prescription medications to treat their conditions. They believe that much of the pain and difficulty autistics and other neurodiverse people endure is due to the pressure to conform to intolerant and restrictive social norms, institutions and habits -- not due to the existence of neurological differences in and of themselves (Baggs, n.d.).

Kathleen Seidel, a neurodiversity activist who has a son with Asperger’s Syndrome and exhibits many of the characteristics of Asperger’s Syndrome herself, addresses the counterproductive nature of trying to force people on the autistic spectrum to conform to behavioral norms in the following excerpt from a letter to the Congressional Autism Caucus. She writes:

Many autistic adults have described how they find eye contact uncomfortable, distressing and counterproductive to comprehension or communication; many have described how rocking or other harmless repetitive acts help to calm their nerves and focus on matters at hand. I believe that we should pay attention to such information so that we do not spend a lot of time and effort trying to persuade both autistic children and adults to imitate behavior that is alien and nonfunctional to them, or to eradicate behavior that is natural and useful to them, for the sole purpose of making it easier for inflexible neurologically typical people to feel comfortable in their presence (Seidel as quoted in Antonetta, 2005, p.10).


The desire to be freed from forced behavioral conformity, when such conformity is not seen by an individual to be in their best interest, is probably the most central concern of the neurodiversity movement and community. Much of the therapeutic focus in programs working with children with Autism and Autistic spectrum disorders aims at teaching these children how to control behaviors seen as socially aberrant, such as ‘stimming’ (the term used by people within this community to describe self stimulating behaviors such as rocking and flapping which are used as a means of self soothing), and how to mimic ‘appropriate’ neurotypical behaviors such as maintaining eye contact and learning to engage in social small talk and group activities.
...
In her manifesto “The World I Want to Live In”, activist Amanda Baggs describes this type of behaviorally repressive environment as:

A world in which autistics are expected to submit to being ‘repaired’ . . . a world where autistics are subjected to abuse, ridicule, and punishment for being who we are . . . a world where autistics are given dangerous psychiatric drugs, and treatments which attempt to force neurotypical behavior on autistics. This is a world where autistics who manage to mimic neurotypical behavior well enough to “get by in the world” are often plagued by deep emotional and self-image problems because of the discrepancy between who they are and what they appear to be . . . This is a world where autistics are punished every day for being real, and rewarded for being false (n.d.).


Activists within the Neurodiversity Movement have no interest in learning to be or appear to be the same as ‘neurotypical’ people. They do not want to learn to ‘pass’ and they do not want to be punished, by lack of access to satisfying work, educational, and recreational opportunities and social sanctions, for not passing. They want to be recognized for their differences in such as way that those differences are seen as positive and valued for the alternative perspectives they bring to bear on consensually accepted modes of perception and interaction. They want, as Baggs goes on to say, ‘to live in a world where it is okay, even admirable, to be autistic . . . a world where I can be sure that autistics will be loved and respected as who we are, not drugged or forced to behave as something we are not’ (n.d.).

etc

http://radicalpsychology.org/vol7-1/boundy.html
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Twyla LaSarc » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Plutonia wrote:Well, well,

Did someone just say "Some of my best friends are Aspies"? And then suggest Ecstasy as a cure?

:lol:


Kathleen Seidel, a neurodiversity activist who has a son with Asperger’s Syndrome and exhibits many of the characteristics of Asperger’s Syndrome herself, addresses the counterproductive nature of trying to force people on the autistic spectrum to conform to behavioral norms in the following excerpt from a letter to the Congressional Autism Caucus. She writes:

Many autistic adults have described how they find eye contact uncomfortable, distressing and counterproductive to comprehension or communication; many have described how rocking or other harmless repetitive acts help to calm their nerves and focus on matters at hand. I believe that we should pay attention to such information so that we do not spend a lot of time and effort trying to persuade both autistic children and adults to imitate behavior that is alien and nonfunctional to them, or to eradicate behavior that is natural and useful to them, for the sole purpose of making it easier for inflexible neurologically typical people to feel comfortable in their presence (Seidel as quoted in Antonetta, 2005, p.10).



Activists within the Neurodiversity Movement have no interest in learning to be or appear to be the same as ‘neurotypical’ people. They do not want to learn to ‘pass’ and they do not want to be punished, by lack of access to satisfying work, educational, and recreational opportunities and social sanctions, for not passing. They want to be recognized for their differences in such as way that those differences are seen as positive and valued for the alternative perspectives they bring to bear on consensually accepted modes of perception and interaction. They want, as Baggs goes on to say, ‘to live in a world where it is okay, even admirable, to be autistic . . . a world where I can be sure that autistics will be loved and respected as who we are, not drugged or forced to behave as something we are not’ (n.d.).

etc

http://radicalpsychology.org/vol7-1/boundy.html



As the mother of an aspie, I am very proud of the fact that he has never been drugged. Many teachers and health providers are usually floored by that news. I suppose he is an outlier.

On the other hand, now an adult, he self-medicates with caffeine. Several syrupy cups a day with loads of sugar. Guess it's better than speed, but I worry sometimes... :grumpy
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby wordspeak2 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:11 pm

Several syrupy cups a day is almost as bad as speed; you're right to worry.

Cheers to MacCruiskeen for putting it well. That's where I'm at in thinking about it. "Fibromyalgia" is another one that I see exaggerated or outright made up quite often. It means you have physical pain. So do a lot of people. Then there's "multiple chemical sensitivities," which is huge in the area I live in, and is tricky because it's definitely real, and extreme in some cases, but I think totally blown up or outright fabricated in others.

And I'm sticking with my interest in ecstasy being studied as a possible treatment for people with pathological social detachment problems. I wouldn't be surprised if we see incredible results, though not 100%, if they manage to get the study funded and approved.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:27 am

pathological social detachment problems


I just wanted to repeat that cause it sounded funny to me.
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Plutonia » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:32 pm

Sounder wrote:
pathological social detachment problems


I just wanted to repeat that cause it sounded funny to me.

Yes, well, he just did it again.

By directing his post to Twlya (who had just expressed her pride in her son - awesome BTW, Twyla, I've never been medicated either,) he's suggesting that her son is pathological and that he needs a chemical cure. In other words, her pride in her unmedicated son is misplaced.

:starz:

And in case he still doesn't get it, here's a reframing of what he said that should make it clear:

"And I'm sticking with my interest in ecstasy being studied as a possible treatment for people with pathological homosexuality problems. I wouldn't be surprised if we see incredible results, though not 100%, if they manage to get the study funded and approved."

So who here is actually displaying a social pathology?
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Re: Are you Aspergian?

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:08 pm

I am totally with you on this Plutonia. I think anyway, although I have not read this thread very closely. (and am not at the moment quite ready for getting into another pissing match.)

wordspeak2, do you see how your post is offensive? While one aspect of your thinking may be a simple pro-drug stance, say for therapy rather than as cure. Even this carries an implied assumption that there are 'shortcomings' to be corrected. Whereas a different frame might find ways to take advantage of new habits of cognition. There is no shortcoming then, and the individual can be encouraged to excel on their own terms.

On the other point, you really ought to apologize, given the reasonableness of placing boundary's between oneself and the certain aspects of our social world.

Please give a bit more thought to your words so that you do not introduce inadvertent slander.
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