Dear Israel Lobby, We Give Up

[American Dream]

I took a long time to think through a considered and relevant response to your question, which I gave and you then ignored before getting in a bunfight with slim.

When you use lowball rhetorical devices like 'dont you think its good to bring your real beliefs into the light of day' - frankly it kinda creeps me out.
like:
Child porn... I know you have said you despise it... but tell me what you really think.


I have tried my best to keep this constructive and positive, but maybe it just comes down to when you ask "Green.. or Red?" and I say I think is more complicated and talk about prisms and how it might be Blue or even Ultra-Violet.. and then you respond with "What dont you just answer the question, Green or Red?". I'm kinda left unsure how to proceed.

The weird thing around this is that I bet that if we ever met face to face, we would get along fine and probably understand each other much more ...

My response, Searcher, is that you never did make a clear and direct comment about how strategically well-advised you consider it to be to accept openly nazi type people into organizing efforts in support of Palestinian liberation.

As I have said many times before, it makes perfect strategic sense not to and no sense at all to have them visibly integrated into the movement. I'm not sure why you danced around a fairly basic- and I think simple- issue for so many posts, but you did.

As to being friends with people who have been or are currently supportive of holocaust denial/revisionism, promote world jewish conspiracy ideas, that sort of thing- well I am friends with at least a couple of people like that.

But I'm horrified by the beliefs...

[eyeno]

anti-semitism, neo-nazis, christian patriot movements, militia-extremist, white supremacy skinhead, nazis, palestenian solidarity, immigrant-bashing, islamophobia, Far Right, Nazis Against Zionism, deluded and hateful, in support of Palestinian Liberation.

I tried to catch up on this thread and it caused nausea. Seriously. I want to throw up.

AD, is there a world free of labels? No. But, damnnn

In my experience the beasts in the field, even though they be of different color and different opinion, get along just fine, if they be left to their own devices. They don't hate each other.

The hate seems to come from..errrr...above. From a 'circle' of some sort.

What is the answer to this hate in your opinion?

What if, just if, we focus on what we have in common, instead of our difference? What happen then? Is this a good place to start AD?

If we start with friction we get friction, if we start with smooth we get smooth, and the friction becomes smoother. Good place to start, don't you think AD?

When we start with the sharp point of the spear, we get the edge. When we start with the smooth places we get agreement.

Agreement leads to a slow wearing away of the sharp edges. Also known as a "smoothing process".

When you start with a "point" you get a "divide". When you start with a "rounded surface" you get agreement.

Perhaps, just perhaps, your methods are promoting "sharp division"?

A thought? Yes?

In this "atmosphere", this "mist", there is nothing more powerful than a human thought.

No skyscraper, no jumbo jet, no py ra mid, no civilization, no laser, no satellite, no war, no space station, no automobile, no oil well, no refrigerator, no religion, no money system, no notion of race, etc...started without it.

Smooth gets smooth, friction gets friction WHICH OF COURSE BECOMES SMOOTH FOR THOSE THAT START FRICTION.

Maybe seeking out those, that start friction, seeking smoothness for themselves, is a good start?

The sharp point of the spear is the smallest particle of the angle, and into it all blood flows. All graduations of it toward the larger structure are but a function of its point.

You are nothing but a function of the point, the sharp edge.

Join us on the shaft. The circular smooth part in which we all agree without the need to agree. There is a world where all disagree without disagreement. Its a smooooottthhhhhhhhh place to live too brother.

We don't agree about abortion but we live each other just the same. Some of us are black, some are white, and we don't care.

Some of us have long hair. Some short.

Some are wealthy. Some are poor.

Some are jews, oh my god yes jews! Some are christian, oh my god yes christians! Some be hindu, oh my god yes hindu! Some be of buddha, oh my god yes buddha! Some think their god lives in a tree and his name is Treenut, oh god yes Treenut! We are all SMOOTH, BECAUSE WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK.

GET IT?

Lay down in the cool grass brother. Take a deep breath. Get a drink of water. Join us. We welcome you, with open arms.

As we convert you out of the world of hate, you will be reborn, and experience a life you never knew existed.

[JackRiddler]

anti-semitism, neo-nazis, christian patriot movements, militia-extremist, white supremacy skinhead, nazis, palestenian solidarity, immigrant-bashing, islamophobia, Far Right, Nazis Against Zionism, deluded and hateful, in support of Palestinian Liberation.

I tried to catch up on this thread and it caused nausea. Seriously. I want to throw up.

SNIP

Goodness, it is so very hard to live in a world full of words! Describing things! So exhausting, for higher beings like yourself, to witness the vulgar materialists who imagine words might have meaning.

Now, didn't you just tell everyone you were going away because of what a suspect place this is? And relieving the board of your pious, holier-than-thou bullshit about how we shouldn't be mean to Nazis, and how the lamb should lie down with the lion for a one-world cutlet dinner? Note I never told you to go, so don't blame me for bringing it up. But since you announced it, disappointment is only natural.

.

[Searcher08]

I took a long time to think through a considered and relevant response to your question, which I gave and you then ignored before getting in a bunfight with slim.

When you use lowball rhetorical devices like 'dont you think its good to bring your real beliefs into the light of day' - frankly it kinda creeps me out.
like:
Child porn... I know you have said you despise it... but tell me what you really think.


I have tried my best to keep this constructive and positive, but maybe it just comes down to when you ask "Green.. or Red?" and I say I think is more complicated and talk about prisms and how it might be Blue or even Ultra-Violet.. and then you respond with "What dont you just answer the question, Green or Red?". I'm kinda left unsure how to proceed.

The weird thing around this is that I bet that if we ever met face to face, we would get along fine and probably understand each other much more ...

My response, Searcher, is that you never did make a clear and direct comment about how strategically well-advised you consider it to be to accept openly nazi type people into organizing efforts in support of Palestinian liberation.

As I have said many times before, it makes perfect strategic sense not to and no sense at all to have them visibly integrated into the movement. I'm not sure why you danced around a fairly basic- and I think simple- issue for so many posts, but you did.

As to being friends with people who have been or are currently supportive of holocaust denial/revisionism, promote world jewish conspiracy ideas, that sort of thing- well I am friends with at least a couple of people like that.

But I'm horrified by the beliefs...

Not only did I not 'dance around' the issue, I brought up points which you have not even discussed such as a uniting vision - THERE IS NONE. You are assuming that there IS. THERE ISNT.
Strategy only exists when there is a GOAL in service of an AGREED VISION. You are not looking at this point. If you are ONLY seeing reasons to exclude, that is all you will find. You are not talking strategy, you are focusing on short-term operational tactics, not a strategic context.

I dont know any people who are very far right wing - most of the people I know would be either business types or hippie types or Daily Mail readers all of whom who sadly consider an interest in politics as bizarre and dumb as an interest in exopolitics. My concern with your approach is that from a systems thinking perspective, it will give rise to enantiadromia - a system that focuses so much on its opposite it ends up creating it - like a parent who is so protective of a child catching germs that no outside play is allowed in case of catching e-coli or streptococcus from mud... which can end up with the kid having a WEAKER immune system.

[Searcher08]

anti-semitism, neo-nazis, christian patriot movements, militia-extremist, white supremacy skinhead, nazis, palestenian solidarity, immigrant-bashing, islamophobia, Far Right, Nazis Against Zionism, deluded and hateful, in support of Palestinian Liberation.

I tried to catch up on this thread and it caused nausea. Seriously. I want to throw up.

SNIP

Goodness, it is so very hard to live in a world full of words! Describing things! So exhausting, for higher beings like yourself, to witness the vulgar materialists who imagine words might have meaning.

Now, didn't you just tell everyone you were going away because of what a suspect place this is? And relieving the board of your pious, holier-than-thou bullshit about how we shouldn't be mean to Nazis, and how the lamb should lie down with the lion for a one-world cutlet dinner? Note I never told you to go, so don't blame me for bringing it up. But since you announced it, disappointment is only natural.

.

Pomposity sux ass

[eyeno]

anti-semitism, neo-nazis, christian patriot movements, militia-extremist, white supremacy skinhead, nazis, palestenian solidarity, immigrant-bashing, islamophobia, Far Right, Nazis Against Zionism, deluded and hateful, in support of Palestinian Liberation.

I tried to catch up on this thread and it caused nausea. Seriously. I want to throw up.

SNIP

Goodness, it is so very hard to live in a world full of words! Describing things! So exhausting, for higher beings like yourself, to witness the vulgar materialists who imagine words might have meaning.

Now, didn't you just tell everyone you were going away because of what a suspect place this is? And relieving the board of your pious, holier-than-thou bullshit about how we shouldn't be mean to Nazis, and how the lamb should lie down with the lion for a one-world cutlet dinner? Note I never told you to go, so don't blame me for bringing it up. But since you announced it, disappointment is only natural.

.

I know when I have been "told." Ok I get it. My words are much too transparent. They show too much. But, can I have some place in the transition?

My employment is open......................

[eyeno]

A job on the "relief" side, has merit and function for the o t h e r side, and both sides function. Its gonna happen. We know it. Just the way it is. A person, such as myself, that KNOWS, "could" work in a capacity that would suit me, during this transition.

Its a "thought".........ya know.....

[JackRiddler]

Pomposity sux ass

You mean, like this?

When we start with the sharp point of the spear, we get the edge. When we start with the smooth places we get agreement.

Agreement leads to a slow wearing away of the sharp edges. Also known as a "smoothing process".

When you start with a "point" you get a "divide". When you start with a "rounded surface" you get agreement.

Perhaps, just perhaps, your methods are promoting "sharp division"?

A thought? Yes?

In this "atmosphere", this "mist", there is nothing more powerful than a human thought.

No skyscraper, no jumbo jet, no py ra mid, no civilization, no laser, no satellite, no war, no space station, no automobile, no oil well, no refrigerator, no religion, no money system, no notion of race, etc...started without it.

Smooth gets smooth, friction gets friction WHICH OF COURSE BECOMES SMOOTH FOR THOSE THAT START FRICTION.

Maybe seeking out those, that start friction, seeking smoothness for themselves, is a good start?

[SNIP]

Lay down in the cool grass brother. Take a deep breath. Get a drink of water. Join us. We welcome you, with open arms.

As we convert you out of the world of hate, you will be reborn, and experience a life you never knew existed.

Brrrrr to the thought that there might really be a "we" to that, looking for converts!

.

[seemslikeadream]

that word israel sure does cause problems.....

how do i work this?



THIS AIN'T NO PARTY NO FOOLIN' AROUND



we're in for nasty weather....fight fire with fire

no visible means of support and you have not seen nuthin' yet

Shakedown dreams walking in broad daylight
Everything's stuck together

[eyeno]

Brrrrr to the thought that there might really be a "we" to that, looking for converts!

You got that right. It is an ice cube. I know that. Let us get real here ok? Cycles in cycles. "g-d" creates the animals. An ice age is coming. I only have two thoughts about this.

My main thought is to stay the fuck out of the way, watch, and hope to live long enough to see if my surmise was correct. I have my muses, my only desire is to live long enough to see if they come true. That would make myself complete. Alerting my sleeping neighbors? Hell no, not even gonna try. And, if they wake up suddenly, i'm gonna stay out of their way and hide from them too.

My other thought, as fucked up as it could be, would be to earn cash during the transition in some way that would lend relief to the slaughtered. This is a most fucked up notion, and one that I don't put much stock in. But hey, there is money to be made in aid to the suffering? Ya know? Slow dying animals give up all their assets.

jack you read me like a book. i read you like one too. you give me damn good advice. i heed it too. i surely do. i think perhaps, i have not heeded it enough. i only took a seat on the lower bleacher seats. now i should take one on the further bleacher seats. bid the a fair ADU, (not really, but you know what i mean in regular parlance)

make me an offer i can't refuse, anything is possible

[eyeno]

I'm watching the "Grapes of Wrath" on tv right now. No shit. I really am. I highly recommend it for your educational near future.

cmon jack? what the fuck? the dragon is out of the damn closet.

[American Dream]

[eyeno]

I could never disagree more. "us" denotes that "we" or "all of us" cannot ever agree.

I say we can agree. Agreement is peace. I have no labels and I am definitely not one of your "us" people.

You keep your labels and stick them to yourself or others you hate so much.

I don't like George Bush but he drinks water, obviously, and I won't stop drinking it because he does. He and I agree on water.

Noam Chomsky and I agree on some stuff and on some stuff we don't, but I won't throw him out on the things we disagree on.

I don't eat processed foods but my nephew does, so I won't throw him out because he eats them.

My cousin hates abortion, I think people should be able to have an abortion if they want one, but I won't throw my cousin out because we don't agree.

My grandfather is a Jesus loving Bible thumping salt of the earth. I don't much believe in all that but I love my grandfather, so I won't throw him out because of his beliefs.

One of my grandmothers is a jew. My jewish background is more than you might imagine. I have one on each side. Holy shit. Right?

My next door neighbor thinks Ronald Reagan was the best president on the face of the earth. I think Reagan was a buffoon and a tool of power. But hey, if I need help all I have to do is go next door and ask my neighbor for help and he is the first man on deck to help me, and me for him.

I have a neighbor that "hates spick ass immigrant mexicans that are invading our country" and he would love to see them all kicked out. I don't have a problem with mexicans and they are fine with me. But I won't kick him out because he does not agree with me.

See how this works? Its the WORKING END that worries SOME. SOME don't want it TO WORK. WORKING WORRIES THE HELL OUT OF SOME HATERS.

Hate has a goddamn function. I know functionaries when I see them.

You don't fool me. Look at my damn avatar. I was raised in this shit hole. I have jews in my family. I have christians in my family. I escaped it. I was raised in a VERY MIXED environment. I was raised with a wise eye from birth. I was conditioned to see this from birth. You don't fool me. You fool yourself.

[Allegro]

There are characters who are worthy of extravagant admissions.
Or not.

[American Dream]

You don't fool me. You fool yourself.

Yeah- I see you.

I thought you were banned already...