Did you know the Iraq war is over?

[lupercal]

The reason I ask is because frankly I couldn't recall exactly what the status of Iraq WAS at the moment. So honestly, are you up to speed on it?

[barracuda]

Preznit Oblama sed it wuz an I bleve him.

[lupercal]

^ I see your voting skills are a little rusty. Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

And as far as I can determine the hot war is officially over:

Nov. 17, 2008 - Iraq and the United States sign an accord requiring Washington to withdraw its forces by the end of 2011. The pact gives the government authority over the US mission for the first time, replacing a UN Security Council mandate. Parliament approves pact after negotiations 10 days later.

Feb. 27, 2009 - New US President Barack Obama announces a plan to end U.S. combat operations in Iraq by Aug. 31, 2010.

June 30, 2009 - All US combat units withdraw from Iraq's urban centers and redeploy to bases outside.

Oct. 4, 2011 - Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki wins support from political blocs on keeping U.S. troops as trainers, but they reject any deal that would grant US troops immunity as Washington had requested.

Oct. 21, 2011 - Obama says the United States will complete a withdrawal of all its remaining troops in Iraq by the end of 2011 after the two countries failed to reach a deal to leave several thousand US troops behind. The Pentagon said there have been more than 4,400 US military deaths in Iraq since the 2003 invasion.

Oct. 28, 2011 - At least 32 people are killed and 71 wounded in twin blasts in Baghdad. The attacks come amid concerns violence may increase as US forces leave Iraq.

Nov. 24, 2011 - Three bombs rip apart market in Iraq's southern oil city of Basra.

Dec. 11, 2011 - Nato forced to deny its training mission in Iraq is on the point of collapse after the alliance failed to win assurances from baghdad that its forces would be immune from prosecution.

Dec. 14, 2011 - Obama welcomes home some of the last US troops from Iraq at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... -Iraq.html

Do have information that it isn't ?

[barracuda]

Do have information that it isn't ?

You mean besides the ongoing bombings and shootings?

I'm guessing when you say the war in Iraq is over, you mean something like, "the media no longer reports American involvement there", or, "only Iraqis are currently dying, so that means the war is over."

[lupercal]

I mean the declared war against Iraq involving US military services is over. Way over, and yes, I'm making a distinction between US tropps and the assorted terror-intel outfits that declared war on the earth sometime around 1947. So if you want to say the intel-terrorists are still active, I'd agree with you. But the declared US-Iraq war is over.

[barracuda]

Congress never formally declared war on Iraq, though. So I guess I still don't know what you mean.

But let's face it - you don't have any idea what the US military involvement is in Iraq beyond what you've been told by a bunch of thoroughly disreputable sources.

[lupercal]

Congress never formally declared war on Iraq, though. So I guess I still don't know what you mean.

I mean this which created quite a stir in its day as several prominent Dems were persuaded to vote for it:

Oct. 11, 2002
Force authorized

Congress authorizes the use of force against Iraq. Ending a somber debate that pushed past midnight, the Senate votes, 77 to 23, for the resolution. The ac­tion came hours after the House gave its approval on a 296-133 vote.

http://timelines.latimes.com/iraq/

Don't rely on wiki as it will let you down every time.

[barracuda]

Oh. I thought you said the declared war.

the declared US-Iraq war

[lupercal]

^I did. Both houses of Congress authorized the use of force in 2003, Bushler used it, and Obama brought the last of it back home in December. You're welcome.

[lupercal]

But let's face it - you don't have any idea what the US military involvement is in Iraq beyond what you've been told by a bunch of thoroughly disreputable sources.

If I believed everything anonymous mind-minders posted on the internet, that might be true, as it seems to be in many cases. But this isn't one of them.

[barracuda]

^I did. Both houses of Congress authorized the use of force in 2003, Bushler used it, and Obama brought the last of it back home in December. You're welcome.

That's not a declared war. That's an authorized use of force, which is a different thing. Which you know.

Has that authorization been rescinded?

[barracuda]

But this isn't one of them.

Then what is it?

[lupercal]

Has that authorization been rescinded?

It doesn't need to be. The president was authorized to use force, and Obama has elected to withdraw them, in consultation with the existing Iraqi government:

Mr Obama and the Pentagon had wanted to leave a residual US force of several thousand troops but were foiled by members of the Maliki government who refused to grant immunity from prosecution to American soldiers. For the same reason Nato yesterday announced that is was ending its mission training the Iraqi army as of Jan 1.

The only American troops left on Jan 1 will be about 200 trainers attached to the US embassy's Office of Security Cooperation in Iraq, while 700 civilian trainers will help Iraqi forces train on purchased American military hardware purchased such as F-16 fighters and Abrams tanks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Iraq.html

[barracuda]

It doesn't need to be.

Then how do you tell that it's over? Has victory been formally declared? Did somebody win?

[lupercal]

If there are no US forces shooting, the effectively declared US-Iraq war is over. Spook ops are something different. I didn't say it was a victory, I said it was over. And yes you get a point on a technicality if it makes you happy.