Strange mass murder in France

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Strange mass murder in France

Postby RocketMan » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:07 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19494892

The bodies of two women and one man were found in a British-registered BMW car near Chevaline, in the Haute Savoie region, say media reports.

A cyclist was reportedly found dead nearby. A critically injured girl under 10 years old was also found.


"We haven't yet been able to establish the nationality of the victims," AFP quoted Mr Maillaud, who did not have access to the car pending forensic examinations, as saying.


"For the moment we have not been able to establish a theory about what has happened here."

The car park where the bodies were found is in a quiet forested area in the foothills of the Alps.

The two women's bodies were in the back of the car, while the man's was in the front.

A large number of spent cartridges are said to have been found on the ground around the BMW.
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby Sepka » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:27 pm

How fascinating! I've seen speculation ranging from 'botched robbery' (The Scotsman) to 'assassination' (Sky News).
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:08 pm

French Alps shooting: girl left for eight hours in car with murdered family

Four-year-old and critically injured sister being protected by police who say they have 'no real leads' on killings of Britons

Kim Willsher in Annecy, Vikram Dodd and Shiv Malik
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 6 September 2012 19.50 BST

French police believe a deeply traumatised four-year-old girl who hid for eight hours under the bodies of her slain relatives, and her critically injured sister may hold the key to the gruesome murder of four people in an Alpine beauty spot.

The two girls were under extremely high protection as police hunted for the gunman who shot dead her parents and grandmother as well as a passing cyclist on Wednesday afternoon in what officials described as an "act of gross savagery".

Three of the four victims were shot in the middle of the head with a semi-automatic pistol meaning the killer pulled the trigger for each shot, leading to fears the professional nature of the attack may indicate a contract killing. Police said they were not sure how the fourth person, believed to be the children's mother, died.

The four-year-old, named in Britain as Zeena al-Hilli, asked for her family after she was finally pulled from the scene of carnage, "terrorised, motionless, in the midst of the bodies", said a French official. British consular officials, despatched from Paris, were trying to comfort her and her older sister Zainab.

The dead man, who was found slumped over the steering wheel, has been named as Iraqi-born engineer Saad al-Hilli, 50, from Claygate in Surrey, but there was no official confirmation of his identity or those of the two women shot while sitting in the back of the car. One of them was reported to be carrying an Iraqi passport and the other a Swedish passport.

Their bodies were found in a British-registered BMW estate car near the picturesque village of Chevaline in the French Alps near where they had been camping.

French police refused to rule out any motive for the killings but described it as a "strange modus operandi" and said they had "plenty of ideas, but no real leads". Eric Maillaud, the public prosecutor, said: "At the moment we cannot say what happened, except four people were killed, or why. It's not that we have no idea; we have many ideas, many hypotheses, all of which are being looked at, but there are no real leads at the moment. My worry is that we may never find the killer."

The body of French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, a local man and father of three children, who was on paternity leave, was found nearby.

The car engine was still running when a former Royal Air Force officer came across the vehicle whose windows had been shattered by bullets shortly before 4pm on Wednesday. He first spotted the body of the elder girl, who had been violently beaten to the head and left for dead near the car and, seeing she was still breathing, called the emergency services.

He then broke the driver's window of the car to cut the ignition and saw the three bodies in the car. Nearby, the man recognised the body of a cyclist who had overtaken him on the hill leading to the beauty spot only minutes before.

Maillaud said the man, who he would not name, was "as you can imagine, profoundly shocked".

It was not until almost eight hours later that police found the second little girl cowering in the footwell in the back of the car under the legs of the dead women, where she had not moved or made a sound.

At a press conference in Annecy, police said the child was only found after holidaymakers at the camping site where the family had stayed, told detectives there were two children and not one.

"There was nothing to lead us to believe there was another human being in the car. She was invisible and completely silent," said Maillaud. "She was clearly happy to be taken into the arms of the gendarme who brought her out. She smiled and started to speak in English. Almost straight away she asked where her family was."

Lt Col Bertrand François added: "We did not search for survivors because there was never any indication there was a living person in that car. The girl was small and hiding under the legs of one of the women. She was too small to show up on a heat detector."

The elder girl, who as well as being "violently beaten" was also shot in the shoulder, was said to be in a stable condition and out of danger in hospital where doctors said they had put her into an artificial coma to aid her recovery.

The bodies of the victims will undergo detailed forensic examinations on Friday. Investigators say they will try to gently question the traumatised girl, but are unsure whether she will be able to help their inquiry. "She's only four years old. Can you imagine? This child stayed still and silent next to a dead body for eight hours," Maillaud said. "She will need to be helped and protected," he added.

The French president François Hollande said authorities will do their "utmost to find the perpetrators".

In Britain, Surrey police said they were assisting the French inquiry. If robbery is ruled out as a motive, then inquiries may focus on Hilli's background to see if there was any clue in his life and work as to why he may have been targeted.

Hilli came to Britain over 20 years ago from Iraq, settling in Claygate where he was a popular and respected member of the community.

Neighbour Jack Saltman said: "They are quite beautiful kids and so well behaved. He was an extraordinarily nice man and helpful. He was a very tactile loving father. He loved to gather the girls up and cuddle them … they would go running at him and he'd catch them in his arms and kiss them. He adored them. His wife was a delightful person and I can't think why anybody would want to harm them.

"My wife is in floods of tears, she's heartbroken. When I stop to think about it I'll cry for those little kiddies. What sort of life are they going to have now?"

The foreign office said: "Our consular officials are on the ground and providing full consular assistance. Very experienced consular staff have spent time with the youngest survivor to reassure her."

Hilli is listed as being involved with two companies. Filings at Companies House say he is director of a company called SHTECH.

The company dealt with computer aided mechanical design work, mainly in the civil aviation industry, said Hilli's accountant Julian Stedman.

Hilli set up the company in 2001 and got most of his work through industry contacts. The company was "doing well", Stedman said. "I knew he worked on [designing] the kitchen of the European Airbus."

Saad and Ikbal got married in August 2003 and had Zainab two years later.

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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:11 pm

French Alps shooting: girl left for eight hours in car with murdered family

Four-year-old and critically injured sister being protected by police who say they have 'no real leads' on killings of Britons

Kim Willsher in Annecy, Vikram Dodd and Shiv Malik
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 6 September 2012 19.50 BST

French police believe a deeply traumatised four-year-old girl who hid for eight hours under the bodies of her slain relatives, and her critically injured sister may hold the key to the gruesome murder of four people in an Alpine beauty spot.

The two girls were under extremely high protection as police hunted for the gunman who shot dead her parents and grandmother as well as a passing cyclist on Wednesday afternoon in what officials described as an "act of gross savagery".

Three of the four victims were shot in the middle of the head with a semi-automatic pistol meaning the killer pulled the trigger for each shot, leading to fears the professional nature of the attack may indicate a contract killing. Police said they were not sure how the fourth person, believed to be the children's mother, died.

The four-year-old, named in Britain as Zeena al-Hilli, asked for her family after she was finally pulled from the scene of carnage, "terrorised, motionless, in the midst of the bodies", said a French official. British consular officials, despatched from Paris, were trying to comfort her and her older sister Zainab.

The dead man, who was found slumped over the steering wheel, has been named as Iraqi-born engineer Saad al-Hilli, 50, from Claygate in Surrey, but there was no official confirmation of his identity or those of the two women shot while sitting in the back of the car. One of them was reported to be carrying an Iraqi passport and the other a Swedish passport.

Their bodies were found in a British-registered BMW estate car near the picturesque village of Chevaline in the French Alps near where they had been camping.

French police refused to rule out any motive for the killings but described it as a "strange modus operandi" and said they had "plenty of ideas, but no real leads". Eric Maillaud, the public prosecutor, said: "At the moment we cannot say what happened, except four people were killed, or why. It's not that we have no idea; we have many ideas, many hypotheses, all of which are being looked at, but there are no real leads at the moment. My worry is that we may never find the killer."

The body of French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, a local man and father of three children, who was on paternity leave, was found nearby.

The car engine was still running when a former Royal Air Force officer came across the vehicle whose windows had been shattered by bullets shortly before 4pm on Wednesday. He first spotted the body of the elder girl, who had been violently beaten to the head and left for dead near the car and, seeing she was still breathing, called the emergency services.

He then broke the driver's window of the car to cut the ignition and saw the three bodies in the car. Nearby, the man recognised the body of a cyclist who had overtaken him on the hill leading to the beauty spot only minutes before.

Maillaud said the man, who he would not name, was "as you can imagine, profoundly shocked".

It was not until almost eight hours later that police found the second little girl cowering in the footwell in the back of the car under the legs of the dead women, where she had not moved or made a sound.

At a press conference in Annecy, police said the child was only found after holidaymakers at the camping site where the family had stayed, told detectives there were two children and not one.

"There was nothing to lead us to believe there was another human being in the car. She was invisible and completely silent," said Maillaud. "She was clearly happy to be taken into the arms of the gendarme who brought her out. She smiled and started to speak in English. Almost straight away she asked where her family was."

Lt Col Bertrand François added: "We did not search for survivors because there was never any indication there was a living person in that car. The girl was small and hiding under the legs of one of the women. She was too small to show up on a heat detector."

The elder girl, who as well as being "violently beaten" was also shot in the shoulder, was said to be in a stable condition and out of danger in hospital where doctors said they had put her into an artificial coma to aid her recovery.

The bodies of the victims will undergo detailed forensic examinations on Friday. Investigators say they will try to gently question the traumatised girl, but are unsure whether she will be able to help their inquiry. "She's only four years old. Can you imagine? This child stayed still and silent next to a dead body for eight hours," Maillaud said. "She will need to be helped and protected," he added.

The French president François Hollande said authorities will do their "utmost to find the perpetrators".

In Britain, Surrey police said they were assisting the French inquiry. If robbery is ruled out as a motive, then inquiries may focus on Hilli's background to see if there was any clue in his life and work as to why he may have been targeted.

Hilli came to Britain over 20 years ago from Iraq, settling in Claygate where he was a popular and respected member of the community.

Neighbour Jack Saltman said: "They are quite beautiful kids and so well behaved. He was an extraordinarily nice man and helpful. He was a very tactile loving father. He loved to gather the girls up and cuddle them … they would go running at him and he'd catch them in his arms and kiss them. He adored them. His wife was a delightful person and I can't think why anybody would want to harm them.

"My wife is in floods of tears, she's heartbroken. When I stop to think about it I'll cry for those little kiddies. What sort of life are they going to have now?"

The foreign office said: "Our consular officials are on the ground and providing full consular assistance. Very experienced consular staff have spent time with the youngest survivor to reassure her."

Hilli is listed as being involved with two companies. Filings at Companies House say he is director of a company called SHTECH.

The company dealt with computer aided mechanical design work, mainly in the civil aviation industry, said Hilli's accountant Julian Stedman.

Hilli set up the company in 2001 and got most of his work through industry contacts. The company was "doing well", Stedman said. "I knew he worked on [designing] the kitchen of the European Airbus."

Saad and Ikbal got married in August 2003 and had Zainab two years later.

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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby Jerky » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:06 am

What a sickening crime... such a tragedy.
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby sunny » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:40 pm

Iraqi-born engineer Saad al-Hilli...
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby stefano » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:46 am

I thought RI would be more into this one...

Saad Al-Hilli is an Iraqi-born Briton. He moved to the UK in 1978 after a relative was attacked by Saddam Hussein's government. It seems his family might have owned some sort of nuclear engineering outfit in Iraq which was nationalised by Hussein and which he wanted to reclaim after the war. He worked at Rutherford Appleton research centre in the 1980s, where there was "a giant particle accelerator which can make radioactive material." Per the same link, he "he regularly came back [to Rutherford] in the summers." A more recent enterprise of his is a satellite photography firm that did work for the Ministry of Defence. Another Rutherford old boy, Adlene Hicheur, was sentenced to five years in prison by a French court this past May for plotting terrorist attacks.

As for the French victim, 45-year-old Sylvain Mollier, he worked for Cezus, an Areva subsidiary. Areva is France's nuclear giant, and Cezus, "the global leader on the zirconium market," "produces zirconium alloy tubes, bars, and sheets for pressurized water reactors (PWRs) and boiling water reactors (BWRs)." He is usually described as a 'passing cyclist' but I don't know.
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby norton ash » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:54 pm

^^ Thank you, Stefano.
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby stefano » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:52 am

Sure!

This is from a comment on Craig Murray's bit about the killing:

Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.

What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
[...]
If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.

The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.


And a thought from Murray:

Craig Murray wrote:Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby crikkett » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:00 pm

Seamus OBlimey wrote:Lt Col Bertrand François added: "We did not search for survivors because there was never any indication there was a living person in that car. The girl was small and hiding under the legs of one of the women. She was too small to show up on a heat detector."


Interesting...
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:27 am

Just dropping by quickly.

Thought it was worth mentioning that the company Saad Al-Hilli worked for, Surrey Satellite Technology Limited, is owned by Astrium, a subsidiary of EADS ( European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company N.V. ). Astrium makes both civillian and military satellites, EADS makes everything from civillian and military satellites to missiles, military aircraft and communications systems, and (alledgedly) cluster bomb components.

In 2008 the company set up a US subsidiary, Surrey Satellite Technology US LLC (SST-US), with facilities in Denver, Colorado to address the United States market and its customers for the provision of small satellite solutions, applications and services. http://www.sst-us.com

Headquartered in Guildford, UK, SSTL is owned by Astrium, an EADS company.


http://www.sstl.co.uk/news-and-events?story=2054
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS

Just dropping this off, I don't really have time to research it further myself. It's funny that nearly every adult involved has some kind of military or nuclear link though - the random cyclist shot dead made zirconium alloys for nuke plants, the cyclist who found them was ex-RAF, and Saad al-Hilli worked for a satellite communications company with military aerosoace links (he also appears to have owned impressive houses all over the world).

It was announced yesterday that EADS will be merging with BAE Systems, which will integrate the UK's aeropace defence giant with it's continental equivalent. It will probably end up being called BEADS.

I wish aerospace companies from Antartica and Albania were involved as well - then it could be called ANAL BEADS.

BAE couldn't really have a stronger grip or a more pernicious influence on the governance of the UK than it does now. No court judgement or regulatory decision is ever allowed to go against their interests.

Saad al-Hilli's house was sealed off the other day, and neighbouring houses evacuated, due to a police search which included the bomb squad. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... um=twitter

The ex-RAF guy was interviewed on BBC today, and came off rather convincingly as being uninvolved in the killings. He's called Brett Martin. Interview here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19587651
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:48 am

A bit behind the times here, I realise, but there has been an interesting and odd development in this case (weeks ago now) - the French police reckon the cyclist was shot first (in other words, he was the intended target). He was also the guy who made zirconium alloys for nuclear plants. And there was only one shooter, they think: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20009542

So, from their preliminary findings, there was one shooter to take out a single person, but when the family drove into the crime scene he killed them too, or most of them. A single assassin on a lonely road for a man who made zirconium alloys for nuclear enrichment. The dark side of the web is of course yelling Mossad (they yell Mossad all day and night regardless of what's happening). But this does sound, frankly, a bit like Mossad.

I suppose, though, with the spook wars being at the pitch and intensity they are now, we also have to be suspicious of the fact that the French police's preliminary report containing these conjectures has been "leaked" to the public, and reported to us. Nothing misleads quite as effectively as disinformation that originates from a privilleged source, in the form of a "leak.".
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:30 pm

French Alps shootings were probably random attack, says prosecutor

Police have found no motive in British family's murders and are looking for 'unbalanced people capable of extreme violence'

Image

Police investigating the murder of three members of a British family in the French Alps believe it is more likely to have been a random attack than a targeted killing.

The prosecutor Eric Maillaud said there was still no motive for the murders of the Iraqi-born engineer Saad al-Hilli, his wife, Iqbal, her mother, Suhaila al-Allaf, and a French cyclist near Lake Annecy in September.

Police had begun to rule out a feud with Hilli's relatives as a motive and were now focusing on the possibility that the shootings were a random act by a mentally unbalanced killer. Maillaud said the shooter was likely to have a history of deadly violence.

"Without doubt we are looking for someone who has killed before, someone who puts no value on human life," he told the BBC. "We are not sure whether that means it's a professional hit, but if it was done on a contract it was very badly done," he said.

"We are looking for unbalanced people, capable of extreme violence. People who have access to weapons – hunters, collectors, shooting club members, some of whom could have had psychiatric problems. We are searching a huge area stretching into Switzerland and Italy, and that includes a large number of people."

Initial suspicions had fallen on a family dispute between Hilli, 50, of Claygate, Surrey, and his brother Zaid, who has strongly denied that a spat over an inheritance might be connected to the deaths. The family has expressed anger at being investigated for the killings. Maillaud said it was the "first obligation of any inquiry to eliminate the immediate family".

The murders happened in secluded woodland near the village of Chevaline on 5 September. The Hillis' four-year-old daughter Zeena hid under her mother's body for eight hours after the shooting. Her seven-year-old sister Zainab was found with serious injures after being shot and beaten.

About 100 police officers in Britain and France are investigating the murders in an investigation spanning France, Switzerland, Italy, the UK, Sweden and southern Spain, where Hilli's father had an apartment.

Maillaud played down speculation that the cyclist, Sylvain Mollier, 45, who worked in the nuclear industry, was the killer's main target. "We are 99% sure he was nothing to do with it," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/17/french-alps-shootings-random-attack


Oh, of course, how could we be so blind :wallhead:
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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby elfismiles » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:53 pm


Friday, 4 January, 2013, 18:19
Daillon gunman wanted to settle dispute

The accused Daillon shooter has told police that he wanted to settle an ongoing dispute in his family.

That comes from the public prosecutor’s interrogation of the 33-year-old man this evening.

The man is still in the hospital, recovering from being shot by police to stop his shooting spree on Wednesday. He’s accused of killing three women and injuring two men in Valais.

Police say he receives disability payments, is placed under a guardianship and has been under psychiatric treatment.

They say they found numerous guns, bayonettes and daggers in his apartment.

French police are also planning to interrogate the suspected shooter.

The French investigators are looking into possible connections between Wednesday’s killings and the unsolved shooting deaths of four people near Annecy, in neighboring France, last September.

Police say that the guns used in the two incidents are not the same, although guns used in both incidents were old Swiss army guns.

And in the aftermath of Wednesday’s shootings, a parliamentary committee will discuss next week whether the country’s gun control laws need to be strengthened.

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/d ... pute.shtml




Former mental health patient who 'killed three women in Swiss village gun rampage' to be questioned about Alps massacre of British family
The killer wielded three weapons as he fired indiscriminately in the street
Reports say 'drunk' man was wounded in police shootout and arrested
He murdered three people and injured several more before he was stopped
All were reportedly known to the gunman, with one thought to be his uncle
Two of the victims were married and the parents of young children
The massacre has striking similarities to Alps attack on British family

By Peter Allen
PUBLISHED: 23:03 EST, 2 January 2013 | UPDATED: 16:00 EST, 3 January 2013

Read more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sacre.html

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Re: Strange mass murder in France

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:04 am

Wow. Thanks Elfis, I hadn't heard about a possible link between that shooting rampage and the al-Hilli killings. Not sure whato to make of that yet.
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