Anderson Cooper "Exposing" Newtown Conspiracy Theory 1/11/13

[justdrew]

the video was not too good. Have you ever listened to people recounting past events? Every time they say it a little differently, taking into account information they didn't know on earlier recountings or just mentioning different aspects in different ways. He was being interviews by TV news, not debriefed. The "truth seeker" also overly-interprets his words, and generally makes mountains out of mole hills.

Why would he have anything to do with it? It just doesn't makes sense. Some people are so PROGRAMED at this point to look for conspiracy and ATTENTION anywhere they can get it, we have this twisted little cult movement cooking up this non-sense.

If you're buying sandy hook was a hoax, you're on your way to militiavile, larouche land, jonestown, etc. Just getting caught up in another manufactured reality-tunnel.

Even if it were... there's NO BENEFIT for thinking so, and frankly, insufficient rational reason to.

No doubt there will be odd things about it, (seems like the synchromystic resonance crowd has been hands off on it, but I haven't checked) and there might be "something more to the story" - but to go right to the government faked it all (and the associated dead-kids/no-dead-kids divide) is just disgusting. and anyway, maybe the fuckin' NRA hoaxed it. Why does it have to be our publicly elected government, private power could have done it just as likely; but this atrocity is too atrocious to play conspiracy games with.

and that will hopefully be the last time I talk about it

best wishes to anyone who wants to remain engaged.

[conniption]

Thanks for the comment, justdrew.

If you're buying sandy hook was a hoax, you're on your way to militiavile, larouche land, jonestown, etc. Just getting caught up in another manufactured reality-tunnel.

Even if it were... there's NO BENEFIT for thinking so, and frankly, insufficient rational reason to.

Damn. You took the wind right out of my sails.

Sigh.

[82_28]

Here's where I disagree with you, Drew. I do agree in principle, absolutely. It most certainly is a ghastly "tragedy". However, the Tragedy as A Way of Normal Life, is what concerns me and it is becoming normalized. One may say that it is nothing but unhinged motherfuckers with access to guns, but it could also be said that these acts follow a pattern of the old "who benefits?" canard. I cannot tell, simply because it IS IMPOSSIBLE to tell. Thus it sullies all and every question of power forever more. That's our clue, as I say all the time. But this is our clue.

We are being made en masse to think thoughts we didn't think this time last year. We are made to think thoughts we didn't think in August of 2001. We are not choosing these thoughts. They are being chosen for us. Again, therein is the clue. Do I know fuck one about this? Fuck no. But I know the world around me has legislatively changed and I do not see it from the standpoint us pussy ass liberals are going to mount a sustained campaign to destroy the fuck out of the right wing. I see it the other way around, in fact. And this is perhaps because culturally, everything, quite decidedly has stood still.

I see the fact that when that Houston shooting went down the other day, I kinda just fell back asleep. I was listening to hear how many dead there were and when it turned out what it was IT BORED ME. That is fucked, chief! There has to be a reason for this happening and that is quantified in how many of us just can't be bothered to care! Because we can't.

I said maybe in this thread or some other ones that being able to fire projectiles at high rates of speed and accuracy and the very advent of gunpowder, was and is a Pandora's Box and there is no going back. This is known and that is why it will continue to be utilized. Here's the reason: It's because they can and they know. Who are they? We know who the fuck they are. It is the Empire protected by what we only know as The Patriot Act and Bill Hicks reasoning on marketers etc.

Go rent Brazil again.

[justdrew]

well, maybe someone will prove me wrong but that the deal as I see it.

[justdrew]

Here's where I disagree with you, Drew. I do agree in principle, absolutely. It most certainly is a ghastly "tragedy". However, the Tragedy as A Way of Normal Life, is what concerns me and it is becoming normalized. One may say that it is nothing but unhinged motherfuckers with access to guns, but it could also be said that these acts follow a pattern of the old "who benefits?" canard. I cannot tell, simply because it IS IMPOSSIBLE to tell. Thus it sullies all and every question of power forever more. That's our clue, as I say all the time. But this is our clue.

We are being made en masse to think thoughts we didn't think this time last year. We are made to think thoughts we didn't think in August of 2001. We are not choosing these thoughts. They are being chosen for us. Again, therein is the clue. Do I know fuck one about this? Fuck no. But I know the world around me has legislatively changed and I do not see it from the standpoint us pussy ass liberals are going to mount a sustained campaign to destroy the fuck out of the right wing. I see it the other way around, in fact. And this is perhaps because culturally, everything, quite decidedly has stood still.

I see the fact that when that Houston shooting went down the other day, I kinda just fell back asleep. I was listening to hear how many dead there were and when it turned out what it was IT BORED ME. That is fucked, chief! There has to be a reason for this happening and that is quantified in how many of us just can't be bothered to care! Because we can't.

I said maybe in this thread or some other ones that being able to fire projectiles at high rates of speed and accuracy and the very advent of gunpowder, was and is a Pandora's Box and there is no going back. This is known and that is why it will continue to be utilized. Here's the reason: It's because they can and they know. Who are they? We know who the fuck they are. It is the Empire protected by what we only know as The Patriot Act and Bill Hicks reasoning on marketers etc.

Go rent Brazil again.

do we ever choose our thoughts? Or do they choose you pikachu?

caring itself accomplishes nothing, don't beat yourself up, consider what's best for you when deciding what to believe, it's ok to.

[brainpanhandler]

You really do try my patience 82 and that's saying something.

Here's where I disagree with you, Drew. I do agree in principle, absolutely. It most certainly is a ghastly "tragedy".

I think drew was saying more than that it was a "tragedy" or even a ghastly "tragedy" and I can't think of any reason to put tragedy in quotes. Why do you do that?

However, the Tragedy as A Way of Normal Life, is what concerns me and it is becoming normalized. One may say that it is nothing but unhinged motherfuckers with access to guns, but it could also be said that these acts follow a pattern of the old "who benefits?" canard.

I'm going to rephrase this for you:

However, Tragedy as a Normal Way of Life is what concerns me. I'm afraid these tragedies are so common now that it is becoming normalized. We just shrug our shoulders, put our heads down and carry on as best we can, never knowing that we've just lost another bit of our humanity in the process. You could attribute the whole phenomena to nothing but random, unhinged motherfuckers with access to guns, but you could also start to look for patterns and begin asking cui bono? (which btw is not a canard. 1a : a false or unfounded report or story; especially : a fabricated report b : a groundless rumor or belief http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canard)

sigh. I know. I'm just a fucking persnickety motherfucking fuck fucker.

Go rent Brazil again.

That is an excellent idea.

[brainpanhandler]

Thanks for the comment, justdrew.

If you're buying sandy hook was a hoax, you're on your way to militiavile, larouche land, jonestown, etc. Just getting caught up in another manufactured reality-tunnel.

Even if it were... there's NO BENEFIT for thinking so, and frankly, insufficient rational reason to.

Damn. You took the wind right out of my sails.

Sigh.

pffft. That's all it took to dissuade you? If only it was that easy.

Even I don't agree with that. If it was a hoax there is very definitely benefit in thinking so.

[barracuda]

seems like the synchromystic resonance crowd has been hands off on it, but I haven't checked.

Oh, they're out there all right. The version I've seen is that Adam Lanza harvested 20 virgins just in time to appease the gods and prevent the onslaught of the apocalypse. 27 victims > 2 x 7 > 7/7 > 7 days before the December 21st deadline for the end of the world. Think Cabin in the Woods, but without the cabin or the woods.

[compared2what?]

c2w? said:

^^Harassment is a crime.*** Entrapment is a tactic. Beware cointel-trolling. (TM)

No personal implications intended. I really just mean "Beware."

________________

***I think cyberharassment is a federal crime. But it might be called something else. I'm too lazy to look.

Excuse me? Are you saying it could be called harassment and considered against the LAW for anyone to link to this youtube video? Do you think we might be hauled off to jail for watching the damn thing?

Certainly not. If I did, I would have been a lot more specific about what to beware of, as in: DON"T WATCH THIS OMG!

I should have been clearer anyway, though. I'd been writing about it on another thread, probably also not clearly. Thought it was self-explanatory. Had a bad day and am generally kinda diminished at the moment. Etc.

My apologies.

I should hope not.

Have you noticed there are at least a kazillion youtube videos questioning the Sandy Hook massacre/cover-up and there are at least 100 times as many comments in agreement with the general consensus that this event, and the role Rosen played, is possibly...

...No. Fuck that...not possibly...

This event and especially the cover-up of the circumstances surrounding it, are highly suspicious. Far beyond conspiracy. It's blatant lying, bad acting, deception and mind-fuckery.

I'm sorry you don't see it.

Please don't be. I'm not sorry that you do. I wasn't commenting on or thinking about that. What I was thinking was:

This is the first breaking-news event to be the subject of widespread online speculation by conspiracy theorists that I've seen cross the line separating obviously protected speech from criminal harassment.

That concerns me because:


(a) people on the receiving end of the harassment could get hurt, injured or killed in a myriad of ways that there's no way to safeguard against on a case-by-case basis without knowing them;

(b) Due to Ryan Lanza's having been wrongly named and the fallout thereof, at a minimum, the FBI's cybercrimes unit is not almost certainly but CERTAINLY tracking discussion of the case, looking for incipient signs of cyberharassment.

(c) The FBI has an extant, permanent, longtime and vengeful bug up its butt about people, communities and movements that subscribe to guns-and-liberty-type political views, such as one very frequently sees expressed in the CT community.

(d) It also has an extensive history of infiltrating peaceful domestic political movements it dislikes.in order to nudge them over exactly the kind of boundary between lawful and non-lawful activity mentioned above, with a view to either:


(i) arrest and prosecution or (more frequently and in this case much more likely)

(ii) manufacturing cause for a surveillance/info dragnet that pays long-term dividends for them as a kind of recruiting list for informants and all-around database of the potentially useful personal and legal vulnerabilties of large numbers of people with a propensity for getting up to shit they have an long-term institutional investment in opposing.

(e) Stands to reason that they'd very much like to expand their cybercrimes scope beyond financial crime but may have had some trouble figuring out how exactly to do that, due to the inherently diverse and unfocussed nature of the internet. Because, you know. They're not evil-genius types, by training, orientation or background, as a general rule. They're cops.

I see enough reason to think something of that kind is going on here for caution to be advisable. And that's about it, really. Because problematical though it may be, I can't go further than that without doing exactly the same kind of speculative trial-without-jury theorizing that might act as an invitation to harassment. So, you know. C'est la vie. It's speculative. Grain of salt. FWIW. Blah, blah, blah.

Have you watched this video?

Nope. The "no personal implications intended" was supposed to cover whoever made and uploaded it, though.

I'm sure most of the road-to-entrapment material is organic, innocent, good-faith viral stuff, But sadly, that doesn't in any way minimize the risk. There's also no way for me to know who is or isn't likely to be at high risk by looking at their usernames, here or elsewhere. So a general cautionary note seemed like the way to go.

on the other Sandy Hook thread

c2w? said:

The next time a circumstance arises among conspiracy theorists in which some are saying: "You shouldn't ought to do that, somebody could get hurt," and others are saying, "Traitor! Fascist! Bully! You're not the boss of me!" everybody who's capable of doing so should remember that "somebody could get hurt" is just another way of saying "you could be implicated in one or more felonies for which the FBI would probably be delighted to entrap you."

That's the bottom line.

I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. You and Anderson Cooper.

Gag Orders all around. tyvm.

It's a friendly advisory. And it's not a gag order in any way, shape or form. Harassment is not speech.

...

You're entitled to your response. Although I can't pretend I'm not dismayed by it on people-who-don't-learn-from-history-style grounds, I can't pretend I'm surprised by it either.

Anyway. Personal shit aside, I'm not demanding agreement. I'm just putting it out there for consideration or not, as the case may be. There's nothing fucking thuggish or censorious about doing that. And I'm sick and goddamn tired of having that charge thrown at me by posters who can't tell the difference between when someone's trying to tell them something of interest and when someone's trying to snatch their binky.

Please cut it the fuck out.

[compared2what?]

BTW, having now done a long version and a short version, I'm done.

It's not actually a personal concern of mine in any way except that I don't like to see people exposed to risk unnecessarily.

[compared2what?]

on the other Sandy Hook thread

c2w? said:

The next time a circumstance arises among conspiracy theorists in which some are saying: "You shouldn't ought to do that, somebody could get hurt," and others are saying, "Traitor! Fascist! Bully! You're not the boss of me!" everybody who's capable of doing so should remember that "somebody could get hurt" is just another way of saying "you could be implicated in one or more felonies for which the FBI would probably be delighted to entrap you."

That's the bottom line.

I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. You and Anderson Cooper.

Gag Orders all around. tyvm.

Except to say ^^that's pretty mind-boggling.

THERE'S A REAL RISK. YOU IDIOT. MAYBE YOU'RE NOT VULNERABLE TO IT. BUT I'M NOT THE ENEMY.

__________________

On edit: Sorry. Frustrated. You're not an idiot.

[compared2what?]

On a more existential tip, though. it does raise the question:

When a bunch of people who already believe that the government is constantly scheming to fuck with their minds with a view to gaining total social and political control of the populace can't get their heads around the perfectly plausible notion that it might be doing exactly that in accordance with very-well documented and universally known practice, what's the fucking point of their subscribing to the belief?

[Perelandra]

The "truth seeker" also overly-interprets his words, and generally makes mountains out of mole hills. Why would he have anything to do with it? It just doesn't makes sense. Some people are so PROGRAMED at this point to look for conspiracy and ATTENTION anywhere they can get it, we have this twisted little cult movement cooking up this non-sense.

I watched the video and briefly looked at his website and thought it revolting. The guy has more so-called scepticism than common sense. I agree with all drew's points.

Anyone, except for Gene, would have called 911 right away. 1st thing, given the circumstances, call the cops, ffs. Wouldn't you have called 911 instead of giving the children juice and toys to play with? Then him taking it upon himself to call their parents? How very suspicious of him.

Given the circumstances, I absolutely would listen to and comfort young children coming out of such trauma. Given the fact that they weren't in physical danger, 911 would not occur to me before any possible reunion with parents. Obviously, police and first responders were preoccupied, as well. Mr. Rosen clearly chose to respond to the crisis in a protective and empathetic way.

[barracuda]

This event and especially the cover-up of the circumstances surrounding it, are highly suspicious. Far beyond conspiracy. It's blatant lying, bad acting, deception and mind-fuckery.

Would you kindly sketch the outline of the conspiracy as you see it? It's easy to call it that, but you may find it less easy to put the particulars into a sensible narrative that demonstrates the theory.

I'm sorry you don't see it. Have you watched this video? Maybe not the best video out there, and I'm sorry it's so long, but it has collected many Gene Rosen interviews with MSM. He's not very consistant. Unable to recall how many of the six children were girls or boys (4/2, 3/3), saying he took the kids to the fire station in one and changing it to him calling their parents and the parents coming to pick them up at his house in another. WTF!! Anyone, except for Gene, would have called 911 right away. 1st thing, given the circumstances, call the cops, ffs. Wouldn't you have called 911 instead of giving the children juice and toys to play with? Then him taking it upon himself to call their parents? How very suspicious of him. I have my theories but... Good Lord, dare I say anything, ever, at all, ever? No no no, not I.

What is the extent of your experience with groups of six-year-olds? Because I can totally understand every thing Gene Rosen did, even to the point of his various inconsistencies.

Regardless, it's little wonder people are unhappy with Gene Rosen

Unhappy is one thing, calling his house, making threats, calling him a pedophile, ruining his life, etc., is another. Brendan Hunt is chasing page hits, not perpetrators.

[wintler2]

On a more existential tip, though. it does raise the question:

When a bunch of people who already believe that the government is constantly scheming to fuck with their minds with a view to gaining total social and political control of the populace can't get their heads around the perfectly plausible notion that it might be doing exactly that in accordance with very-well documented and universally known practice, what's the fucking point of their subscribing to the belief?

Perhaps 'Well documented and universally known' is the problem: its hard to repackage that into special knowledge available only to an elect few, which is a common spin on many CT sites. Without that ego puffing specialness, theres no group cohesion and less sales.