Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby 8bitagent » Thu May 09, 2013 4:40 pm

82_28 wrote:I believe it, but I really don't believe this shit for one second -- as far as narrative with particulars and socially. I'm not even talking about some political motive. I am talking about mass psychological motive. I happen to be interested in the names Berry, DeJesus, Knight and Castro and how they intertwine.

I am not undermining the reality of this, but how it went on for so long and the various players in the drama which continues to unfold and the weird psychic connection.

$.02 for now.



I just dont get how he kept three girls/now women and a produced child so secret that noone knew? Not even the brothers? And why is Mcdonalds so central to this world?

I feel this is definitely an RI story for a number of components. How can a human being mentally survive being beaten/raped/shackled/given little food/no love/etc
in a small windowless space for over a decade? We see these stories emerge, like in Austria or the Dugard story. The film Old Boy is about a guy kept in a small red room
for 15 years. I mean how do people do it? I go stir crazy if Im in a room for more than a few hours without going for a walk outside.
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Thu May 09, 2013 5:20 pm

Three cases over several years thought to be separate kidnapping cases now turning out to be all part of the same case.

Makes you wonder...just how many stranger abduction cases are related? This of course brings to mind Johnny Gosch and the
vast rabbit hole that is.


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013305070109&nclick_check=1

Cleveland discovery provides hope for Noreen Gosch

Never give up.

Noreen Gosch has lived that mantra every day in the nearly 31 years since her son, Johnny Gosch, disappeared from a street corner in West Des Moines while delivering newspapers early one September morning in 1982.

Gosch never got the dramatic rescue and return moment that played out in Cleveland on Monday, when three women, missing for a decade, were recovered from a home there.

But Gosch, in an interview with The Des Moines Register, said that emotional reunion is proof that parents whose children have disappeared should never give up hope.

“I’m so happy for those families,” Gosch said.

Monday night in Cleveland, Charles Ramsey spotted a slender arm break through the door of his neighbor’s home and heard someone yelling for help. Ramsey eventually broke the woman out of the home.

They went across the street to Ramsey’s house to call police. The woman told dispatchers, “Help me, I am Amanda Berry. … I have been kidnapped and I have been missing for 10 years. … I’m free now.”

Berry, 27, told police she was not alone. A 6-year-old believed to be Berry’s daughter was in the house. Also held against their will, missing for years, were Gina DeJesus, about 23, and Michelle Knight, now 32.

Cleveland police arrested Ariel Castro, 52, a former school bus driver, and two brothers on suspicion of kidnapping.

Gosch's mom thinks sex ring involved
The case echoes the story of Jaycee Lee Dugard, who was kidnapped at age 11 by serial sex offender Phillip Garrido. He and his wife held Dugard prisoner for 18 years, during which time Dugard had two children by Garrido.

It also recalls the story of Elizabeth Smart, who was kidnapped at 14 from her Salt Lake City bedroom by Brian Mitchell and Wanda Barzee in June 2002. Smart was recovered nine months later and testified to being threatened, raped and bound by her captors.

For Noreen Gosch, the cases prove something she has been saying for years: There are darker forces in the world than people will let themselves believe.

Gosch has long maintained that rich pedophiles organized a kidnapping ring to snatch young boys nationwide, including her son. The children, she believes, were used as sex slaves.

Police and federal authorities have classified Johnny Gosch’s disappearance as a kidnapping but have never established a motive and have disputed some of Noreen Gosch’s claims.

Noreen Gosch said her assertions are based on years of investigation by private investigators, including a former New York City police detective and a retired Los Angeles FBI bureau chief. She said she worked three jobs to pay for the investigations.

Noreen Gosch said her assertions are based on years of work by private investigators, including a former New York City police detective and a retired Los Angeles FBI bureau chief. She said she worked three jobs to pay for the investigations.

She Gosch said her son visited her at her West Des Moines home in the early-morning hours of March 1997 in the company of another unidentified man. Johnny Gosch would have been 27 at the time.

Noreen Gosch said her son told her he was a victim of a sex ring and was cast aside when he was too old. Noreen Gosch believes her son is living under a new identity and that he does not believe it is safe to return home.

“I’ve been called a lot of names, and I’ve been ridiculed,” Gosch said. “But we see the evidence of human trafficking. We see these men taking women as slaves in our country. The evidence is right in front of us.”

Despite controversy and negative scrutiny, law enforcement officials credit Noreen Gosch with forcing the nation’s law enforcement authorities to treat missing-children cases with higher regard.

Before the Gosch kidnapping, police waited up to 72 hours before considering a child missing.

“The idea was that most kids come home on their own,” said William Moulder, retired Des Moines police chief. “But Noreen Gosch woke us up. That wasn’t good enough. If a kid is hanging out at a friend’s house for a couple days because he’s pissed off at his parents, we should find that out. We should know.”

Added Moulder: “Noreen Gosch did what any mother should do, what any mother has to do in her situation: She kept hope alive.”

Evansdale chief: We follow all leads
The Cleveland case also brings hope that if missing children cannot be returned alive, then at least those who did them harm can be brought to justice.

Family, friends and authorities hoped that Evansdale cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, would be found alive after they disappeared from Meyers Lake in Black Hawk County on July 13, 2012.

But in December, their bodies were found in the Seven Bridges Wildlife Park in Bremer County.

The search for their killers continues.

“We believed they would come home alive until the day we found them,” said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock. “We were all heartbroken. But this case is still very much alive. We are following leads every day, both from public tips that have come in and things that we have uncovered.”

Still, cases go cold.

Eugene Martin, another Des Moines Register newspaper carrier, disappeared in August 1984, nearly two years after Gosch vanished. The only evidence found in the case was Martin’s newspaper bag.

Moulder, the retired Des Moines police chief, was certain the case would be solved quickly. Nearly 29 years later, the newspaper bag is the only hard evidence that remains.

“A cop always believes that if he has enough information, he can solve any case,” Moulder said. “We could never get that lead, that piece of information that could break it for us. All we had was a bag on a street corner.”

Moulder said James Rowley, a retired Des Moines police detective, remains haunted by the case. Rowley never gave up hope Martin would be found. “I think if a lead came up, he would come back and work it for free,” Moulder said. “He never made peace with that. I don’t think you can.”

Gosch vows to fight for missing kids
In Cleveland, three families celebrate the return of loved ones absent for so long. The strange, terrifying case rekindles hope for those aching for the return of their children — or at least final resolution about their fate.

Noreen Gosch does not know whether she will ever have that with her son Johnny, but she will keep fighting for better investigations of missing children for the rest of her life.

“I don’t know if Johnny will ever come home,” Gosch said. “I wish I had a better answer for that. I just don’t know.”
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby 8bitagent » Thu May 09, 2013 5:38 pm

mentalgongfu2 wrote:

For Noreen Gosch, the cases prove something she has been saying for years: There are darker forces in the world than people will let themselves believe.

Gosch has long maintained that rich pedophiles organized a kidnapping ring to snatch young boys nationwide, including her son. The children, she believes, were used as sex slaves.


It's a subject that famed author Brett Easton Ellis was exploring even in the mid 1980's in his books.

I think the mainstream media and even alternative left blogs would rather tackle unanswered questions to major terror events than to even tip toe in discussing this sort of stuff. And Im not even talking about the occult aspect.

But we've seen time and time and time again OUTSIDE the US this stuff happening. Powerful politicians and elites in Portugal, Chile, Belgium, etc have been tied to such cases...but nope, not in America! That could never happen.
I've long had the feeling that researching and exploring stuff like Franklin was even more dangerous and explosive than 9/11 and JFK.
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby Freitag » Fri May 10, 2013 1:48 am

I just can't even process the fact that, while normal people in society go about their daily routines, some people have sex slaves at home, that they've kidnapped. Like, that's a thing that happens.

It makes me wonder if anyone I've ever interacted with has a secret like this. Or ask, how many vehicles have I seen on the freeway that had people bound and gagged inside? More than zero?

BDSM is a relatively mainstream fetish, but a certain percentage of people fantasizing about that stuff will escalate until they kidnap someone. That will eventually be the only way they can get their kicks.

It's shocking how often cases like this pop up.
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby Sounder » Fri May 10, 2013 4:42 am

http://12160.info/page/cleveland-abduct ... en_twitter



Cleveland abductor claimed he was in the CIA

Ariel Castro is shown in Cleveland, Ohio in this May 7, 2013 booking photo provided by the Cleveland Police Department. Cleveland Police Dept/Handout via Reuters

Hints of a dark side in Cleveland abduction suspect's life

One childhood friend said a music session with Castro, who was born in Puerto Rico, suddenly turned bizarre.

"Ariel was in my garage probably five or six years ago. We were recording a song, an idea we had - a little hard rock with some Latin," said Joe Popow, 45, a father of six who said he has known the Castro brothers since childhood.

"And - you're going to laugh - he said he was in the CIA. And I don't know if he was joking or not, but it's the way he said it, how serious he said it. I didn't know what he was capable of. That just put me on defense, and I just started stepping away," Popow said.

Intensely private for years, Ariel Castro recently had been seen taking a young girl to the park and to the playground at the local McDonald's restaurant, neighbors said.

One of those neighbors, Israel Lugo, 39, said it was the same little girl who was in the arms of one of the abducted women, Amanda Berry, when she and the others were freed. He was there to witness them leave the house, he said.

"I've seen him with the little girl once or twice. He said it was his girlfriend's daughter," said Lugo, a self-employed roofing contractor.

reuters
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby semper occultus » Fri May 10, 2013 4:53 am

...the Cameron Hooker / Colleen Stan case was the first of this specific type of incident I recall - there must have been some before - Stan was actually taken out of imprisonment on one occasion to visit her parents - in some ways a worse torment than being kept separated...
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby Freitag » Fri May 10, 2013 5:50 am

semper occultus wrote:...the Cameron Hooker / Colleen Stan case was the first of this specific type of incident I recall - there must have been some before - Stan was actually taken out of imprisonment on one occasion to visit her parents - in some ways a worse torment than being kept separated...


You're right, her spirit was so broken she didn't attempt to escape. I'd like to think Mr. Hooker will get the exact same treatment for eternity in Hell.

There must have been cases before that but I'm having trouble thinking of any. David Parker Ray said he'd been enslaving women for 40 years, when caught in 1999.
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby 82_28 » Fri May 10, 2013 8:27 am

8bitagent wrote:
82_28 wrote:I believe it, but I really don't believe this shit for one second -- as far as narrative with particulars and socially. I'm not even talking about some political motive. I am talking about mass psychological motive. I happen to be interested in the names Berry, DeJesus, Knight and Castro and how they intertwine.

I am not undermining the reality of this, but how it went on for so long and the various players in the drama which continues to unfold and the weird psychic connection.

$.02 for now.



I just dont get how he kept three girls/now women and a produced child so secret that noone knew? Not even the brothers? And why is Mcdonalds so central to this world?

I feel this is definitely an RI story for a number of components. How can a human being mentally survive being beaten/raped/shackled/given little food/no love/etc
in a small windowless space for over a decade? We see these stories emerge, like in Austria or the Dugard story. The film Old Boy is about a guy kept in a small red room
for 15 years. I mean how do people do it? I go stir crazy if Im in a room for more than a few hours without going for a walk outside.


Pure speculative and perhaps uncouth theorizing here. But it reminds me of Anne Frank. Anne Frank was kept safe by people, as goes the "narrative". This "narrative" goes as YOU CANNOT BE KEPT SAFE. But can still throw down a little Anne Frank when it comes down to it.

Remember when the story of Anne Frank haunted the fuck out of you as a kid?

No longer.

Why? On many levels. I call bullshit for this round. This tale seems impossible and yet all too probable. There's something far more to this.

And it is pure evil.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby FourthBase » Fri May 10, 2013 9:10 am

Yeah, I do not consider it out of bounds to ask a hundred questions about the three women and their families, too. What church did they attend, what schools did they go to, what do their parents and uncles and aunts do for a living, did they ever do an unusual amount of traveling, did they ever live in any inexplicably-nice homes or neighborhoods, did Castro ever tell them about working for the CIA at any time during the ten years when they were his captives and he would have presumably been comfortable enough knowing they would never escape to share that hallucination/secret with them?
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby semper occultus » Fri May 10, 2013 9:21 am

...its pretty much SOP as a cover story....

'MI5 agent' conman jailed for life

guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 6 September 2005 12.10 BST


A conman who posed as an MI5 spy during a £1m "odyssey of deceit" was jailed for life today.
Robert Hendy-Freegard, a 34-year old semi-literate former car salesman nicknamed "The Puppetmaster", seduced and ruthlessly exploited his victims during a 10-year period, Blackfriars crown court heard.


http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=297961#p297961
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby kenoma » Fri May 10, 2013 9:41 am

Freitag wrote:It's shocking how often cases like this pop up.


In fact, They're extremely rare.
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby semper occultus » Fri May 10, 2013 10:28 am

...well the cases we actually know about are !....consider the number of missing persons out there....teenage runaways over a certain age don't seem to attract much attention from the authorities... :shrug:
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby Hunter » Fri May 10, 2013 11:13 am

FourthBase wrote:Yeah, I do not consider it out of bounds to ask a hundred questions about the three women and their families, too. What church did they attend, what schools did they go to, what do their parents and uncles and aunts do for a living, did they ever do an unusual amount of traveling, did they ever live in any inexplicably-nice homes or neighborhoods, did Castro ever tell them about working for the CIA at any time during the ten years when they were his captives and he would have presumably been comfortable enough knowing they would never escape to share that hallucination/secret with them?

Are they Cleveland Indians fans, are they mad at Art Model for moving the Browns, do they hate Lebron James for leaving the Heat. These are questions that must be asked! :coolshades


In all seriousness though remember 2009. "The Cleveland Strangler" Anthony Sowel, had dead bodies of all sorts of women in his house and buried in his backyard, if I understand correctly this Castro guy doesnt live far from where Sowel did, not that that means anything but I wonder what was going through Castro's head back in 2009, he would have had those girls five years at that time, when that serial killer Sowel's story broke in Cleveland, I bet he was freaking out but somehow probably justified in his mind that he wasnt such a bad guy afterall compared to Sowel since Sowel was much worse with corpses stacked floor to ceiling in his house and the whole back yard full of skeletons. Know what I am saying, what does a guy like Castro think to himself, with 3 girls in his house held captive and he sees the Sowel story on the news?


Does he think like us "What a sick fuck that guy is!"

Does he cheer Sowel on as a fellow piece of shit and sexual predator?

"Oh see I am not such a bad guy after all, I mean look what THIS guy did!"


What sort of reaction does a guy like Castro have, with 3 girls serving as sex slaves, held captive in his house, for five at that time, when he sees the Sowel story on the news, that is what I want to know.

I seriously wonder if he is like "Cool bro youre a bad ass!"


Does he go the girls and show them the story on the news and say, "see you girls are lucky I am not such a bad guy look at this freak!"


Is he repulsed by a guy like Sowel like we are, or doesnt he just not feel anything either way about it, I think it would be somewhat fascinating to find out the answer to that question.


A lot of creepy shit going on in Cleveland the last 5 years.

What do you think?
Last edited by Hunter on Fri May 10, 2013 11:31 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby Hunter » Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

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Re: Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

Postby FourthBase » Fri May 10, 2013 11:24 am

Great stuff, Alchemy. Warrants both a "LOL!" and "Whoa, wow, holy shit, yeah, how about that?"
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