The United States is not Fascist

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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby Joao » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:25 pm

American Dream » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:15 pm wrote:
Joao » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:49 pm wrote:I'd argue that the actions of the US state are performed exclusively in the service of capital, however, and that this is a significant difference from the WWII era fascists. Admittedly, the board of IG Farben might disagree, of course, and from a Bolshevik perspective such a difference might also be seen as artificial (ie, rich fucks getting richer are all the same, regardless of rhetoric). But that line of thought would suggest we should revise our understanding of classical fascism, as opposed to finding new terminology for the world around us today.

I see your point and I basically agree. I'll also admit to being ambivalent about how much time and energy to put into confronting racist creeps in the street vs. the parasites in the boardrooms.

Can you say more about revising our understanding of classical fascism vs. expanding it to encompass current realities?


Sorry for the delayed response. I expect you surmised my meaning, though, as your response expands on what I was trying to say.

Namely, what's the true essence and enabler of fascist societies: jackboots and cults of masculinity, or slave-labor profiteering and military-industrial complex engendering such as we saw from the likes of IG Farben, Krupp, and Flick? The former gets a lot more attention in the US, I think, because the latter leads to difficult questions about the infernal amorality of profit motive and wealth concentration. On the other hand, it seems the Soviets (among others) were less shy about seeing fascism first and foremost as just another form of eternally-rapacious capitalism.

Thus, my long-winded point: if the diabolical profiteer is the truest fascist, then we should see what we learn by looking at the Nazis (et al.) from that perspective, rather than working through checklists to determine how well today's society matches that of Hitler's Germany, Pavelic's Croatia, etc.

I hope that's somewhat clear. I'm oversimplifying for the sake of brevity, so kindly interpret with charity. Obviously such a view is contradictory to my previous statements about the primacy of the state in fascism, but of course that's the point and I'm here to interrogate perspectives, not provide lessons from on high.
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:46 pm

Joao » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:25 pm wrote:
American Dream » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:15 pm wrote:
Joao » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:49 pm wrote:I'd argue that the actions of the US state are performed exclusively in the service of capital, however, and that this is a significant difference from the WWII era fascists. Admittedly, the board of IG Farben might disagree, of course, and from a Bolshevik perspective such a difference might also be seen as artificial (ie, rich fucks getting richer are all the same, regardless of rhetoric). But that line of thought would suggest we should revise our understanding of classical fascism, as opposed to finding new terminology for the world around us today.

I see your point and I basically agree. I'll also admit to being ambivalent about how much time and energy to put into confronting racist creeps in the street vs. the parasites in the boardrooms.

Can you say more about revising our understanding of classical fascism vs. expanding it to encompass current realities?


Sorry for the delayed response. I expect you surmised my meaning, though, as your response expands on what I was trying to say.

Namely, what's the true essence and enabler of fascist societies: jackboots and cults of masculinity, or slave-labor profiteering and military-industrial complex engendering such as we saw from the likes of IG Farben, Krupp, and Flick? The former gets a lot more attention in the US, I think, because the latter leads to difficult questions about the infernal amorality of profit motive and wealth concentration. On the other hand, it seems the Soviets (among others) were less shy about seeing fascism first and foremost as just another form of eternally-rapacious capitalism.

Thus, my long-winded point: if the diabolical profiteer is the truest fascist, then we should see what we learn by looking at the Nazis (et al.) from that perspective, rather than working through checklists to determine how well today's society matches that of Hitler's Germany, Pavelic's Croatia, etc.

I hope that's somewhat clear. I'm oversimplifying for the sake of brevity, so kindly interpret with charity. Obviously such a view is contradictory to my previous statements about the primacy of the state in fascism, but of course that's the point and I'm here to interrogate perspectives, not provide lessons from on high.


Yes, makes complete sense. At least half of the communication difficulties before were on my end, as I was rather busy and distracted in those moments.

As far as historical Fascism goes, those classic and nightmarish episodes have been well-studied and the role of corporations, individual members of the owning class and coordinator class big bosses has been well studied.

What though of the neo fascists, as broadly understood? Surely they are often of great utility to spooks and government leaders and often do find common cause with them in covert operations. This is important.

Also important though is the aspect of today's Fascism highlighted by some of the previous authors in this thread: a semi-autonomous "populist" tendency hostile in stance if not in substance towards Capital and the State, at least at times.

I am persuaded that this is a significant feature of today's political landscape but not persuaded how important these clowns are, i.e. how much a militant left strategy should center on opposing them. My best sense is to some degree, yes, these sorts of Antifa campaigns do matter but also we must not take our eyes off the prize and lose sight of the truly empowered elites and the System they represent.

So how to strike a good balance? I wrestle with these questions as I read the previous texts...
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:04 pm

Then there's this guy:

Holocaust Museum Shooter had Close Ties to Prominent Neo-Nazis

” … In the 1980s or early 1990s, von Brunn was employed by Noontide Press, a part of the Holocaust denying Institute of Historical Review, which was then run by Willis Carto, one of America’s most prominent anti-Semites. … AP reported that von Brunn had painted a portrait of Rear Adm. John Crommelin, a raging anti-Semite who was a close associate of neo-Nazi William Pierce … ”

Heidi Beirich
6/10/09

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/06/1 ... neo-nazis/


Law enforcement officials have identified the suspect in the Holocaust Museum shootings as James Wenneker von Brunn, born in 1920, from the Eastern Shore of Maryland. D.C. Police Spokeswoman Traci Hughes reportedly said the suspect walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. ET with a rifle and shot a guard.

Von Brunn runs the website holywesternempire.org, which was listed in 2008 as a hate site by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Von Brunn has a long history of associations with prominent neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. In the 1980s or early 1990s, von Brunn was employed by Noontide Press, a part of the Holocaust denying Institute of Historical Review, which was then run by Willis Carto, one of America’s most prominent anti-Semites.

Von Brunn is the author of the 1999 book, Kill the Best Gentiles, a racist and anti-Semitic tome that argues that whites are seeing “today on the world stage a tragedy of enormous proportions: the calculated destruction of the White Race and the incomparable culture it represents. Europe, former fortress of the West, is now over-run by hordes of non-Whites and mongrels.” A raging anti-Semite, von Brunn blames “The Jews” for the destruction of the West. The book is dedicated to prominent neo-Nazis and racists including Revilo Oliver and Wilmot Robertson.

In 2003, AP reported that von Brunn had painted a portrait of Rear Adm. John Crommelin, a raging anti-Semite who was a close associate of neo-Nazi William Pierce, whose book The Turner Diaries inspired Timothy McVeigh’s bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.

On his website, von Brunn also claims that in 1981, while wearing a “London Fog raincoat to conceal his weapons,” he attempted to put the whole Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve under “legal, non-violent citizens-arrest.” He wanted “to bind their hands and persuade them to appear on television.” The website says he was sentenced to 11 years for his actions.

A raging anti-Semitic and racist posting on the website arsenalofhypocrisy.com attributed to “James Von Brunn” says that “the Federal Reserve Act (1913) gave JEWS control of America’s Money.” It also says that “America is a Third-World racial garbage dump – stupid, ignorant, dead-broke, and terminal.”

It ends with, “Prepare to die, Whitey.”
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby slimmouse » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:28 pm

What we need just now is something far bigger than any such artificial prejudices could ever, ever be.

But of course we then need smart enlightened people working on our behalf. That also said, I do believe there are plenty out there.

In the meantime, we do need a rather broad church to achieve this.
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:23 pm

Book Review of "Confronting Fascism"

Reviewed by Matthew Lyons

Ever since Italy's fasci di combattimento rocketed Benito Mussolini to power in 1919-22, leftists have been grappling with the question of fascism -- what it is and how to fight it. Fascism is a complex, contradictory enemy. It murders and vilifies leftists but often calls itself the true force for socialism and revolution. It bolsters oppression and supremacism, but overturns old hierarchies and feeds on real grievances against elites. It rules by violence and fear, but depends on active mass support to win and keep power. It glorifies a romantic image of the past, but proclaims a New Order and remakes itself again and again to fit new circumstances and opportunities.

Unfortunately, leftist discussions don't usually deal with fascism's complexity. More often, they fall back on simplistic formulas, such as the belief that fascism is just an extreme form of capitalist repression. This kind of thinking is dangerous because it tells us little about what gives fascist movements their appeal or what kind of threat they pose.

Confronting Fascism: Discussion Documents for a Militant Movement takes a fresh look at an old question. It argues that fascism isn't just a ruling-class puppet or policy -- it's an independent political force that capitalists may manipulate but can never fully control. While many leftists have an image of fascism that's stuck in the 1930s, Confronting Fascism brings the concept into the 21st century, discussing movements ranging from the World Church of the Creator to the Taliban. And Confronting Fascism also spells out why anti-fascists need to develop a revolutionary outlook and analysis -- and why fighting fascism needs to be part of building a revolutionary movement.

The book is built around Don Hamerquist's essay, "Fascism & Anti-Fascism," which criticizes traditional leftist ideas (and current leftist complacency) about fascism, points to dangerous new potentials within the current neo-nazi scene, and offers a range of ideas for building a radical movement against both fascism and the capitalist state. J. Sakai's piece, "The Shock of Recognition," picks up on Hamerquist's discussion of fascism, grounding it in more historical and global analysis and more discussion of class dynamics. Shorter pieces by ARA Chicago and Mark Salotte address points related to Hamerquist's organizing/strategy discussion.

A strong introduction by Xtn of ARA Chicago highlights two events that shaped the immediate context for compiling the book. First, the 1999 Seattle anti-globalization protests opened new vistas for militant mass action -- but also pointed to new dangers as neo-nazis praised the Seattle revolt and talked about winning over anti-globalization leftists. Second, the mass killings of September 11, 2001 disrupted radical activism and sparked a new wave of racist attacks and repressive nationalism. In particular, September 11 also showed radical activists that "we were not the only enemy of the capitalist order, and this new enemy was no friend of liberation" (p. 1).

A central theme of this book is that fascism is fundamentally hostile to both the left and the ruling class -- it is a revolutionary movement of the right. Hamerquist argues that fascism is a danger both in the US and globally, not because it's about to seize power, but because it has the potential to become the main insurgent mass movement -- to "take the game away from the left" as Tom Metzger of White Aryan Resistance put it in the 1980s.

Hamerquist sees the greatest such danger in the "third position" variant of fascism, which claims to reject both the left and the right. Third positionists (such as Metzger) present themselves as socialist and anti-capitalist and often seem much more intransigently oppositional than most of the left. Many third positionists support some Third World liberation struggles and some even claim to reject White supremacy.

Third positionists also want to recruit or ally with sections of the left. While the vision of the "radical right" joining forces with the "radical left" is a standard line of liberal and state propaganda, Hamerquist argues that the danger of a right/left convergence is real, and not only because of what fascists are doing. He points to tendencies within much of the left that mesh dangerously with fascism, such as male supremacy, glorification of violence, leader cultism, hostility to open debate and discussion, and elitism. Hamerquist notes that the German Communists in the early thirties sometimes made tactical alliances with the Nazis against the Social Democrats because they thought Social Democrats were the bigger threat.

Hamerquist also argues that we need to rethink old assumptions about fascism's relationship with white supremacy. First, there's the potential that some white fascists may build alliances with right wing nationalist or religious organizations among oppressed peoples -- something that has already happened in small ways. Second, Black, Asian, and Latino peoples may generate their own fascist movements.

Sakai picks up on this theme. He argues that the mass displacement of Black workers over the past generation, coupled with the defeat of 1960s left Black nationalism, has fueled an unprecedented growth of authoritarian rightist organizations in the Black community. And Sakai also argues that fascism's key growth area now is in the Third World, where pan-Islamic fascism and related far-right movements have largely replaced the left as the major anti-imperialist opposition force.

Hamerquist's discussion of anti-fascist organizing and strategy touches on a wide range of issues, from the need to balance military and political considerations, to the building of a revolutionary culture that will counter fascism's militant appeal. Hamerquist cautions anti-fascists to look beyond the immediate situation. For example, what seems like a victory in a confrontation with fascists may be part of a process by which the fascist movement weeds out less effective tendencies and tactics. We also need to remember that the capitalist state is always a player in a three-cornered struggle with fascists and anti-fascists. The state's role varies -- often it tries to defuse street confrontations, but it can also sit back and let fascists and anti-fascists "fight it out." Sometimes it sides with the fascists, and all along, it may be trying to shape both fascist and anti-fascist movements as part of a larger counterinsurgency strategy. "Keep in mind," Hamerquist warns, "that in our confrontation with the fascists, the side that is identified with the state is ultimately going to lose politically" (p. 51).

Sakai's reply to Hamerquist's essay does not dwell on anti-fascist strategy. Instead, it focuses on fascism's historical and class dynamics. Sakai praises Hamerquist for challenging standard assumptions and opening up key questions that leftists have generally avoided. He also takes issue with Hamerquist on certain points. While Hamerquist says that some fascists are anti-capitalist -- notably Third Positionists -- Sakai argues that fascism is revolutionary and "anti-bourgeois but not anti-capitalist" (p. 94). It is revolutionary in the sense that it aims to seize state power from big business, but the new order it imposes is still capitalism -- in a rawer, more brutal form.

I tend to agree with Sakai on this point. Historically, fascist anti-capitalism has always been vague and slippery. Up close, it has generally meant opposition to "bourgeois values" or to a "parasitic" wing of capital (such as Jewish bankers), rather than to capitalism as a system.

Despite its genuine hostility to big business, Sakai argues, fascism often receives support from the small and local bourgeoisie and from sections of the capitalist state. German army officers hostile to the new Weimar Republic trained and funded the early Nazi Party. The Taliban was backed by Pakistani and Afghan mafia capitalists hostile to global corporatization, and by a Pakistani general who later broke with the CIA and began denouncing Western imperialism.

But Sakai and Hamerquist agree that fascists in power follow their own agenda -- not the agenda of big business. As Sakai argues, German capitalists profited under Hitler. But there is no evidence that they told the Nazis to invade the Soviet Union, ally with Japan and thereby bring the United States into the war, or put scarce resources into exterminating the Jews -- all decisions that contributed to Germany's military defeat.

Fascists in power also radically reshape the capitalist system. The business class needs workers so it can extract surplus value from their labor, but Nazi labor policy, as Hamerquist points out, involved "the genocidal obliteration of already developed sections of the European working classes" in pursuit of a racialist agenda (p. 27). Sakai describes how Hitler's regime elevated millions of German workers into a new parasitic class of soldiers, policemen, and bureaucrats and replaced them with a new proletariat of foreign and slave laborers, retirees, and women. Note that Hamerquist and Sakai are describing German Nazism. Italian Fascism lacked Nazism's overarching racialist imperative and never consolidated total control over the Italian state. Its impact on the social order was more limited.

Hamerquist never defines fascism in his essay. Sakai's definition is concise: "Fascism is a revolutionary movement of the right against both the bourgeoisie and the left, of middle class and declassed men, that arises in zones of protracted crisis" (pp. 88-89). This is broad enough to include non-traditional fascisms such as the Taliban but specific enough to exclude non-revolutionary rightists such as (most of) the Christian Right. Still, there are several problems here. To begin with, Sakai doesn't define either "right" or "left" -- but as Hamerquist emphasizes, one of the reasons we need to make sense of fascism is that the line between left and right can become seriously blurred.

Sakai is in a long tradition of critics who have linked fascism to middle-class and other strata threatened or uprooted by rapid social and economic change -- historical losers who hate the big capitalists and want to get back the privilege they used to have. Sakai sees this dynamic in the Germans who rallied to Hitler during the Depression; in the Timothy McVeighs who turn to neonazism as the old white settler privilege system crumbles; and in the Muslim world's shopkeepers and unemployed college graduates hit by globalization, who are at the core of the pan-Islamic right.

Sakai's class discussion tells us something important about fascism, but I think it's oversimplified. First, Sakai may be too quick to dispute Hamerquist's warning that militant revolutionary fascism could build a mass base among insurgent workers. Part of the issue here is that Sakai regards many apparent workers as really being either lower middle class or declassed. That said, several classical fascist movements seem to have attracted substantial numbers of workers. In the early thirties, workers were an estimated thirty percent of the Nazi Party and a majority of the storm troopers, the party's "radical" wing.

Second, pre-World War II fascism didn't just attract declining and uprooted middle classes such as small merchants, but also groups at the core of the new corporate economy, such as white-collar workers and professionals. Fascism rallied people who feared capitalist modernization, but also people who wanted large-scale industrial development. Fascism romanticizes the past -- but it also claims to represent something radically new. This tension isn't always clear from Sakai's analysis.

As part of his definition, Sakai also claims that fascism is basically a male movement both in composition and outlook. Again, there's an important truth here -- fascism promotes a heroic community of men -- but it's only part of the story. As Xtn notes in the introduction, neither Hamerquist nor Sakai says enough about what fascism means for women. Xtn highlights the central contradiction: fascism intensifies male supremacy to the point that "women become mere property," yet fascism also relies on mass support from women as well as men, and women have participated as activists and organizers in promoting fascism.

This contradiction has been explored by scholars such as Claudia Koonz (on German Nazism), Antonia De Grazia (on Italian Fascism), and Martin Durham (on the British Union of Fascists). Their work shows that classical fascism recruited female support largely by opening new opportunities for women and girls -- in education, youth groups, athletics, volunteer work, and certain paid jobs -- even as it sharpened and centralized male dominance. Sometimes fascism even promoted twisted versions of feminism. The British Union of Fascists advocated equal pay for women and included former suffragists who saw fascism as a direct continuation of the struggle for women's rights. Like fascist anti-capitalism or anti-imperialism, this is one more way that fascism exploits leftist themes for its own ends.

Confronting Fascism offers documents for discussion -- not a polished, comprehensive analysis. As the authors themselves emphasize, there are many unanswered questions and areas needing further study. But this is a valuable book that moves the discussion forward.


This review appeared in the December 2002 issue of Turning The Tide, the publication of Anti-Racist Action Los Angeles and People Against Racist Terror. Check out these websites for more info: http://www.geocities.com/ara_losangeles , http://www.antiracistaction.us , http://www.antiracistaction.ca .
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:27 am

http://libcom.org/news/5-rising-fascist ... t-22022013

5 fascist groups you should know about
Feb 22 2013

Image

Concerning support for neo-fascist groups grows in the global financial crisis.

Indeed for some the idea of something akin to Nazi Germany ever rising again may seem ridiculous. Undermining that very real possibility is a frightening mistake. In capitalism’s last great crisis, The Great Depression, we saw the rise of many populist, nationalist groups all across the globe. Today in the modern crisis it’s no different. Nazi Germany was born out of a nation in financial crisis; using “Volkism” (populism), placing the blame on outsiders, and appealing to Freikorps (disenchanted paramilitary groups) to gain power. These are 5 groups that have spawned or rose to prominence in the recent years worth being aware of.

1. American Freedom Party

Image

The American Freedom Party is a third positionist (revolutionary nationalism that claims to oppose both capitalism and communism), white supremacist, conservative political party that formed in 2010 in opposition to the financial crisis. They are firmly against immigration. They claim to support the labour rights of the American working class, but are against labour unions. While there isn’t strong information on their numbers, their candidate for President in 2012, Merlin Miller, scored 2,703 votes.

2. British National Party

Image

While the BNP is nothing new, existing in Britain since 1982, it has shown a considerable rise in power in the financial crisis. The BNP is a far-right party officially committed to fascism, right-wing populism, white nationalism, and Euroscepticism (criticism of the European Union). It has a history of violence and is officially condemned by Human Rights Watch. In the 2010 general election it had around 4,200 members, 339 candidates, and received 563,743 total votes. This is a sharp increase from 2005 where it only had 117 candidates and received 192,746 total votes.

3. English Defense League

Image

Formed in 2009, the English Defense League is a street protest movement in the UK against perceived spread of Islam. Civil rights group Hope Not Hate considers the EDL the “largest right-wing threat in the UK today.” The group is estimated to have around 30,000 members. They have a large history of violence against immigrants. They have attacked mosques, sent death-threats to journalists, and engaged in football hooliganism. They often clash with UK anti-fascist groups such as United Against Fascism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlxT9NMKUQ).

4. New Resistance

Image

New Resistance is a currently forming group in the United States. It claims to be a new ideology called "Fourth Theory", based off the writings of fascist philosopher Aleksandr Dugin. Started by a former leader in the neo-nazi group American Front, it mixes left-wing anti-capitalist ideology with racist separatism and nationalism. There is no data yet on their numbers, but a manifesto floats online on their website openrevolt.info. It currently has around 122,000 hits. They use populism to appeal to those who feel disaffected by capitalism, yet call for racial segregation and separatism. Hard to define, it seems to be a case of the fascist virus attempting to mutate itself and the effects are yet to be seen.

5. Golden Dawn

Image

The Golden Dawn is an ultra-nationalist group from Greece. It is the largest of all parties in the third positionist, anti-communist European National Front. It has 18 members recently elected to parliament, received 426,025 total votes in the last election, and is alleged to receive much support from Greek police. They have been known to attack immigrants so frequently and with such little police resistance that motorcades of anarchists have begun to patrol the streets in communities affected by Golden Dawn violence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGrW_ZTHPNY). It has recently established an office in New York city to reach out to the Greek community there.
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby KeenInsight » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:25 pm

The U.S. Government works for fascists, their is a difference, but the U.S. gets a perfect score in this category none the less. I guess that makes them co-opted Fascists.

Lawerence W. Britt's list of signs is quite evident.

1. Expression of Nationalism
  • Less and less tolerance for other races - Latin Americans and people of Middle Eastern Descent
2. Disdain for Human Rights
  • (The U.S. Government double standard, for example, of harboring known South American terrorists in asylum, but at the same time prosecutes whistleblowers (truth tellers) as criminals that did harm to no one, but the credibility of the U.S. Government's image.)
  • Gitmo Human Rights abuses - Warlord's selling innocent people from Middle Eastern countries, claiming they are terrorists, and whisking them off by CIA or other spooks to Gitmo run by a CORPORATION
3. Identification of peoples as "scapegoats" as a unifying cause - Diverting people's attention through relentless disinformation, propaganda, and State-Sponsored Terrorism
  • Muslim Americans and Middle Eastern peoples have been the new scapegoat enemy of the United States through various actions such as WTC 1993, WTC 9/11, U.S.S. Liberty, Boston Bombing, Palestinian Genocide - Palestinians are in fact experiencing what Jews did during Hitler's Terror.
4. Rampant Militarism - Ruling Elite support of military and industrial infrastructure
  • The U.S. spends more money on defense than any other nation on Earth
5. Sexism
  • Ruling Elite dominated by privileged white men, now women of those elites are coming into the fold - in order to fascize them.
  • Anti-Abortion (against women's right to their body) and Homophobic double standard (ruling elite often caught in scandals or abuse of children)
6. Controlled Mass Media
  • Over 50 different companies ran the media in the 80s, now its only 6.
  • Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats.
  • Infiltration of media by U.S. Intelligence Services
  • Hitler and Goebbels have NOTHING on this type of refined and controlled mass media, but they would be proud, very proud.
7. Obsession with National Security
  • Rise of Police State Measures as a means to control the population and dissent
8. Religion and ruling elite are tied together
  • The ruling politicians claim how religious they are, yet commit to double standards - believing that war is justified under a Christian God, like Rome did when it adopted Christianity and the Vatican spread its Crusades across the land.
9. Corporations are Protected
  • Under the "law" Corporations are protected the same as a "human" entity.
  • Federal Reserve controls the Government.
10. Power of Labor suppressed
  • Dismantling of Unions
11. Elite disdain for intellectuals and the arts
12. Obsession with crime and punishment
  • The "War on Drugs"
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
  • The Power Circles and Elite look for ways to enrich themselves and gain favoritism of the government
14. Fraudulent Elections
  • Giving the population a choice that is meaningless at face value - Elections are controlled by special interests and Elite
  • Both the "right" and "left" are cut from the same cloth

Fascism is a go-to definition that fits the bill for many nations throughout history. There are other names - Imperialism, Corporatocracy, etc. At its core, it is the tendency for dominate nations to control their population through relentless propaganda, wars, and filling the pockets of the "Elite."

As the saying goes Power is Absolute; Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely and it is learned. It is essentially the ultimate disease of Human Existence.

Until there is a time where all humanity is united like some sort of utopia "Star Trek," and removes religion from ruling power, stops all wars, dissolves the banks, removes power from corruptions, etc., the Human Race will continue to suffer.
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:49 pm

Britt's identified characteristics of Fascism describe real problems, for sure, but they seem to describe life for most human beings under the domination of Capital and the State:

1. Expression of Nationalism

2. Disdain for Human Rights

3. Identification of peoples as "scapegoats" as a unifying cause - Diverting people's attention through relentless disinformation, propaganda, and State-Sponsored Terrorism

4. Rampant Militarism - Ruling Elite support of military and industrial infrastructure

5. Sexism

6. Controlled Mass Media

7. Obsession with National Security

8. Religion and ruling elite are tied together

9. Corporations are Protected

10. Power of Labor suppressed

11. Elite disdain for intellectuals and the arts

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

14. Fraudulent Elections



So if these are widespread problems, then what does Britt think the word "Fascism" even means? And were things really so much better in some mythical past where Freedom and Democracy were (allegedly) the law of the land?
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:23 pm

Having read this thread in its entirety, Im kinda lost as to what its all about exactly ?

Can you enlighten me please AD?
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:34 pm

slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:23 pm wrote:Having read this thread in its entirety, Im kinda lost as to what its all about exactly ?

Can you enlighten me please AD?


I would say it's about what Fascism is and isn't, what's wrong with the regimes that are not de facto fascist, how the actual fascists today are working, what we should do about them, and how in general we might make our world better...
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:57 pm

American Dream » 28 Jul 2013 17:34 wrote:
slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:23 pm wrote:Having read this thread in its entirety, Im kinda lost as to what its all about exactly ?

Can you enlighten me please AD?


I would say it's about what Fascism is and isn't, what's wrong with the regimes that are not de facto fascist, how the actual fascists today are working, what we should do about them, and how in general we might make our world better...


I which case, given the extreme nature of the challenges that our entire civilisation faces, why is it in your oprinion important for us to define exactly what fascism is?

I cant help thinking that what we are about to face, if we dont get our shit together, will make any definition of fascism look lame by all yet percieved standards.
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:03 pm

slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:57 pm wrote:
American Dream » 28 Jul 2013 17:34 wrote:
slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:23 pm wrote:Having read this thread in its entirety, Im kinda lost as to what its all about exactly ?

Can you enlighten me please AD?


I would say it's about what Fascism is and isn't, what's wrong with the regimes that are not de facto fascist, how the actual fascists today are working, what we should do about them, and how in general we might make our world better...


I which case, given the extreme nature of the challenges that our entire civilisation faces, why is it in your oprinion important for us to define exactly what fascism is?

I cant help thinking that what we are about to face, if we dont get our shit together, will make any definition of fascism look lame by all yet percieved standards.


I do think we need to fight the fascists, and that we need a solid political praxis that helps us put antifascist activity in proportion as part of a larger whole, in a well thought out but evolving strategy for social change.
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:22 pm

I do think we need to fight the fascists, and that we need a solid political praxis that helps us put antifascist activity in proportion as part of a larger whole, in a well thought out but evolving strategy for social change.


Well obviously we are looking at our situation from our respective personal angles.

From where you're sat we need to guard against extremist racist ideology emerging as a result of any change.

From where Im sat meanwhile, any kind of change that is going to make a true difference to our civilisation, will be based on a collective mass uprising,which in the aftermath of any unlikely success ( if this board is anything to go by) understands that the kind of positions adopted by EDL, Golden Dawn and others, are even more laughable than they were before.

How can it possibly suceed any other way?
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:26 pm

slimmouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:22 pm wrote:
I do think we need to fight the fascists, and that we need a solid political praxis that helps us put antifascist activity in proportion as part of a larger whole, in a well thought out but evolving strategy for social change.


Well obviously we are looking at our situation from our respective personal angles.

From where you're sat we need to guard against extremist racist ideology emerging as a result of any change.

From where Im sat meanwhile, any kind of change that is going to make a true difference to our civilisation, will be based on a collective mass uprising,which in the aftermath of any unlikely success ( if this board is anything to go by) understands that the kind of positions adopted by EDL, Golden Dawn and others, are even more laughable than they were before.

How can it possibly suceed any other way?


Mass movements are essential but so are principles and strategy...
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Re: The United States is not Fascist

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:44 pm

For A European Antifascist Movement

Yorgos Mitralias


The deepening and generalization of the crisis to nearly all European countries makes it now possible to comprehend not only the crisis's dynamic and characteristics, but also the priority tasks which a Left that does not surrender and keeps resisting ought to take on.

Image1. That is why we could henceforth evoke a trend toward the “Greecization” of, at least, the European south, insofar as countries such as Spain, Italy or even France, one after the other, find themselves confronted with a political scene that has been deeply and drastically changed, just like what has been going on in Greece for the last two to three years. To various extents, but in a clearer and clearer fashion, the pillar of their political system, say their traditionally prevailing two-party system, has entered a profound crisis (France, Spain) or more, is collapsing (Greece, Italy) in favour of often unheard of until those days political forces, belonging to both ends of the political scene. In no time, their two main (left and right) neoliberal parties, which had been keeping the power in turns – altogether, they used to gather 70 per cent, 80 per cent or even more of the votes, have now started to decline or even decompose. They are no longer granted more than 50 per cent, 40 per cent or even 30 per cent of the citizens’ preferences.

Collapse of Social-Democracy

2. Even though the classical right has suffered too, the consequences of the alienation of citizens mainly impacted the social-democracy. Social democratic parties are collapsing everywhere in Europe (Greece, Spain, Italy and France) and – a sign of the times – they're no longer capable of taking profit of the natural wearing out of the right when it's in power. They strongly decline even when they are in the opposition!

In fact, we are witnessing an unprecedented crisis of social democracy which bears all the characteristics of a... terminal one! The consequence is historic and cataclysmic: having lost one of its two legs, the two-party system, which used to ensure political stability and the smooth running of a system based on the changeover of political power between the neoliberal parties, hangs in suspense and has stopped functioning. Under these circumstances, the regime crisis is not far away.

3. We have to acknowledge that the European Left is not in a state such as to embody the hopes of angry citizens who are deserting the parties that once used to prevail. Apart from Greece (Syriza), nowhere in Europe has the left got neither the credibility, nor the organized strength and social foothold, nor, above all, the capacity to inspire the masses that have been turning away from the main bourgeois parties while radicalizing their rejection of the established order.

The consequence of Europe's Left powerlessness in facing the generalized crisis of the bourgeois domination system cannot be summed up to the prediction that the left will not take advantage of this cataclysmic crisis of capitalism. Alas! There is much worse to it. What is already looming on the horizon is that this historic crisis, along with the left's current powerlessness, could all too well lead to whole sections of a confused and disorientated society turning, in the end, to the far right or even neo-fascist and neo-Nazi forces in an attempt to express their anti-system revolt!

4. Is this a mere working hypothesis? No, this is exactly what is happening in a continuously growing number of European countries. Now, it has nothing to do anymore with the “Greek exception” that has seen the hatching and stunning development of the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn. Now it is about a real far right tidal wave, or at least of the reactionary Euro skepticism (Germany, UK), even in North European countries so far relatively spared by the debt crisis and austerity policies!

Even more important than the quasi generalization of the phenomenon is the fact that the far right is now operating a historic breakthrough in such a great country as France, which has always marked our continent's history. And even in countries where the far right remains marginalized (Italy, Spain, Belgium...), social crisis and political fragility are such that the situation might as well evolve in favour of the emergence of a far right force in no time, all the more taking into account the risk of contagion.

Unprecedented Political and Social Crisis

5. In fact, all the ingredients of an unprecedented since World War II political and social crisis are now put together in Europe so that we are getting closer and closer to the interwar period and its “devils,” even though the world has gone through tremendous changes since the 1930s.

However, similarities with the interwar period are not limited to the “objective” situation. Unfortunately, we see the “subjective factor,” the non social-democratic left, displaying the very same incapacity than the left in those days to understand what is going on in the deepest layers of society, and to react accordingly. The conclusion has to be categorical: it is not the rise of the far right – however impetuous it may be – that causes fear. What is frightening and determines today's and tomorrow's tasks is rather the incapacity or impossibility for the left not only to resolve the crisis to its own profit, but also to stand in the way of this rising reaction and far right!

6. Supposing that the diagnosis is right, what should we do, provided that, of course, we rule out any passive and fatalistic attitude and choose to fight before it's too late? The answer seems obvious: we need to gather as quickly as possible all the available forces throughout Europe, Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern, in order to start a long term fight against the rising far right, including neo-fascism and neo-Nazism.

7. In order to make sense and above all to be able to bring tangible results, this European anti-fascist gathering must be altogether unitary and radical, massive and democratic. Any sectarian approach, dividing rather than uniting, reveals a deep misunderstanding or understating of the gravity of the situation, which requires the constitution of a unitary front gathering all those, without any exclusions, who are willing to fight the brown plague. The lessons of the interwar period, those of Italy of the 1920s and those of Germany of the 1920s and the 30s are here to remind us that the shortest way to suicide for the workers’ and socialist movement goes through its own sectarianisms and splits in front of the rising racist, fascist and Nazi far right.

United and Radical Anti-Fascism

8. In order to be able to inspire the anti-fascists and meet the people's expectations in these times of prolonged social war, this anti-fascist gathering has to be unitary as well as radical. Here we have not only to ascertain that the fights against the people's starvers and the far right are organically linked, since the far right supports – in ultimate analysis – the system and its economic foundations. Here we have to take into account the revolt, however confused and partial, of the victims of austerity policies against the system which generates them and the politicians who implement them. For it is the moderation of a certain left, perceived – understandably – as a kind of “softness” and a refusal to put into acts the left's fine words that makes the impoverished and desperate masses turn to fascists and other right extremists nearly everywhere in Europe.

Image9. This unitary and radical European anti-fascist gathering must imperatively be democratic as well, based on the citizens’ self organization. Why? Because only mobilized citizens can fight and beat the far right and because the indispensable condition for their mobilization is that they themselves determine their fights, their goals and their forms of action. In other words, they have to take over their fate.

10. But there is more than this. If we want to fight with some chance of success against the far right, we have to do so everywhere, constantly and above all globally, on every ground, without ignoring any battlefield. Because it is not only about confronting the storm troops, the militia and other racist and neo-fascist gangs in the streets, but also facing the tremendous ravages caused in the minds and behaviors by the neoconservative counter revolution, the comeback of the worst racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, anti-feminist and chauvinist reaction. And all this because the current rise of a mass far right does not fall out of the sky: it was prepared via the methodic poisoning of our societies by the selfish and anti-human “values” of the neoliberal, patriarchal and, finally, misanthropic and barbarous counter revolution.

11. In other words, nobody can claim to be anti-fascist as long as they are not in war against the pillars and the raison d’être of the far right, that is racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, chauvinism, sexism, as well as the worship of blind violence, machismo and intolerance.
A political or other organization cannot practice a consistent form of anti-fascism so long as it remains homophobic, jingoist, sexist, or even keeps making its militants goose-step parade.

So, who else than the directly concerned people – the citizens themselves – can give these everyday battles where they work, live, study, express themselves, build up relationships, love each other? The conclusion seems to be obvious: in order to be effective, anti-fascism must not be the apparatuses’ business. It has to be the business of self-organized citizens wherever they exercise their activities as social beings. An anti-fascism that would not attack all the aspects of the ongoing reactionary counter revolution and would restrict itself to fighting only its epiphenomena would be already doomed to powerlessness.

12. However, be careful: given the extreme emergency of an already critical situation, the true dilemma is no more “to act or not to act” against the growing far right threat, but to decide and act quickly, as quickly as possible, for too much time has already been wasted in Greece – as well as in Hungary and elsewhere. Therefore, it's time to stop warning us saying that we must not let the brown serpent get out of its egg. Unfortunately, this warning is no more useful because the serpent not only has already left its egg long ago but it has become a monster parading in the streets and sowing terror at least in many European countries!

Consequently, let's decide and act quickly! Being the result of an at least atypical initiative, the European Antifascist Manifesto has the great merit of existing and forcing us to face our responsibilities. Time is no longer for the indecisiveness of the ones neither for the fatalism and the passivity of the others. It is not as well for the sectarianism of those who do not want to understand that only united we could be credible enough to inspire the anti-fascist will of the large citizens’ masses. Now, it is time for anti-fascist unity and action, it is time for building the European anti-fascist movement. Today! Tomorrow could be too late... •

European Antifascist Manifesto:

Spain campaign: http://www.antifascismeuropa.org
Greece campaign: http://www.antifascismeuropa-ellada.gr
France campaign: http://www.manifesteantifascisteeuropeen.fr
Slovenia campaign: http://www.odbor.si/antifa

Yorgos Mitralias is a founding member of the Greek Committee Against the Debt, which is affiliated to the international network of CADTM (www.cadtm.org), where this article first appeared.

[emphasis added]
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