Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff
by 8bitagent » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:13 am
by Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:36 am
It could be that the Illluminati are real and that the stories told by the likes of Cooper, Springmeier, Svali, Marrs, Robertson, Todd, Warnke, Maxwell and Makow are literally true.
“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”- George Santayana
Past presidents of the United States and other high profile political leaders have repeatedly issued warnings over the last 214 years that the U.S. government is under the control of an “invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.”
According to six of our former presidents, one vice-president, and a myriad of other high profile political leaders, an invisible government that is “incredibly evil in intent” has been in control of the U.S. government “ever since the days of Andrew Jackson” (since at least 1836). They “virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties… It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”
As a result, “we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.”
The sources for the above quotes (and more) are listed below. All of the quotes in this article have been verified as authentic and have associated links to the source materials. Also included below are statements made by David Rockefeller, Sr, former director of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and Federal Reserve Chairman’s Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke that appear to confirm some of the warnings.
Warnings About the Invisible Government Running the U.S.
The warnings listed below, which appear in chronological order, began with our first president – George Washington. The last president to speak out was JFK, who was assassinated. Read what they and other political leaders have said about the invisible government.
George Washington wrote that the Illuminati want to separate the People from their Government
“It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may… actually had a seperation [sic] of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned.” – George Washington, 1st President of the United States (1789–1797), from a letter that Washington wrote on October 24, 1798, which can be found in the Library of Congress. For an analysis of Washington’s warning, see the article “Library of Congress: George Washington Warns of Illuminati”
“I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.” —Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States (1801–1809) and principal author of the United States Declaration of Independence (1776), in a letter written to John Taylor on May 28, 1816
“A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interests, combined in one mass, and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks.” – John C. Calhoun, Vice President (1825-1832) and U.S. Senator, from a speech given on May 27, 1836
Note that it appears that Washington’s and Jefferson’s concerns regarding bankers and separation of the people from the government was realized by 1836. This fact was confirmed in a letter written by FDR in 1933 (see below) in which he wrote that “a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” Jackson was the seventh president of the United States (1829-1937). Calhoun served as Jackson’s vice-president from 1829-1932.
“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”— Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt, An Autobiography, 1913 (Appendix B)
“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men… [W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913
“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913
“The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation… The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties, … and control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government. It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.” - New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, New York Times, March 26, 1922
“Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government board, has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt…Mr. Chairman, when the Federal Reserve act was passed, the people of the United States did not perceive that a world system was being set up here… and thatthis country was to supply financial power to an international superstate — a superstate controlled by international bankers and international industrialists acting together toenslave the world for their own pleasure.” – Congressman Louis T. McFadden, from a speech delivered to the House of Representatives on June 10, 1932
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” — Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States (1933–1945), in a letter to Colonel Edward M House dated November 21, 1933, as quoted in F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, 1928-1945.
“Today the path to total dictatorship in the U.S. can be laid by strictly legal means… We have a well-organized political-action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state… It operates secretly, silently, continuously to transform our Government… This ruthless power-seeking elite is a disease of our century… This group…is answerable neither to the President, the Congress, nor the courts. It is practically irremovable.” – Senator William Jenner, 1954 speech
“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” —J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, 1956
“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings… Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe… no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of “clear and present danger,” then I can only saythat the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day.It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.” — John F Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, from a speech delivered to the American Newspaper Publishers Association on April 27, 1961 and known as the “Secret Society” speech (click here for full transcript and audio).
“The Rockefellers and their allies have, for at least fifty years, been carefully following a plan to use their economic power to gain political control of first America, and then the rest of the world. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes, I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” Congressman Larry P. McDonald, November 1975, from the introduction to a book titled The Rockefeller File.
“There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” – Daniel K. Inouye, US Senator from Hawaii, testimony at the Iran Contra Hearings, 1986
The Federal Reserve
“A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves…” – John C. Calhoun
“… owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.” – Theodore Roosevelt
“… one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Bank.“ – Louis T. McFadden
In an interview with Jim Lehrer that was aired on PBS’ News Hour on September 18, 2007 that you can watch on YouTube, formal Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said, essentially, that the Federal Reserve was above the law and that no agency of government can overrule their actions:
Jim Lehrer: “What is the proper relationship, what should be the proper relationship between a chairman of the Fed and a president of the United States?”
Alan Greenspan: “Well, first of all, the Federal Reserve is an independent agency, and that means, basically, that there is no other agency of government which can overrule actions that we take. So long as that is in place and there is no evidence that the administration or the Congress or anybody else is requesting that we do things other than what we think is the appropriate thing, then what the relationships are don’t frankly matter.”
The fact that the Fed is above the law was demonstrated by current Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, during his appearance before Congress on March 4, 2009 (as shown in this video). Senator Bernie Sanders asked Bernanke about $2.2 trillion in American tax dollars that was lent out by Federal Reserve. Bernanke refused to provide an answer:
Senator Sanders: “Will you tell the American people to whom you lent $2.2 trillion of their dollars? … Can you tell us who they are?”
Bernanke: “No”
David Rockefeller and the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)
“We have a well-organized political-action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state…” – William Jenner
“The Rockefellers and their allies have, for at least fifty years, been carefully following a plan to use their economic power to gain political control of first America, and then the rest of the world.” – Larry P. McDonald
In 1921 the stockholders of the Federal Reserve financed an organization called the “Council on Foreign Relations” (CFR). A full discussion on the CFR is beyond the scope of this article. Suffice it to say that the CFR likely plays a prominent role in the invisible government that we have been warned about. The CFR is alleged to be the arm of the Ruling Elite in the United States. Most influential politicians, academics and media personalities are members. The CFR uses its influence to push their New World Order agenda on the American people.
David Rockefeller, Sr is the current patriarch of the Rockefeller family. He is the only surviving grandchild of oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, founder of Standard Oil. Rockefeller began a lifelong association with the CFR when he joined as a director in 1949. In Rockefeller’s 2002 autobiography “Memoirs” he wrote:
“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as internationalists and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
James Warburg, son of CFR [Council on Foreign Relations] founder Paul Warburg, delivered blunt testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17, 1950:
“We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest.”
Cognitive Dissonance
“The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” —J. Edgar Hoover
Because of a deep rooted beliefs that the U.S. government is “for the people” and the protector of the free world, many will reject the notion of an evil shadow government. When our beliefs are challenged or when two beliefs are inconsistent, cognitive dissonance is created. It’s human nature to try to hold our beliefs in harmony with our world view and avoid disharmony (or dissonance).
For those of you who having difficulty believing the information presented in this article, I fully understand. For the first 57 years of my life, I would not have believed in the possibility that a shadow government could exist. Three years ago my world view changed. While on vacation in Mount Shasta, I came across a book titled “Global Conspiracy” that seemed strangely out of place in a metaphysical book store. I had never heard of the author before – some guy named David Icke. I scanned through the book and frankly didn’t believe 99% of what I read. But, I saw one thing that caught my attention in that I knew that I could easily verify Icke’s assertion. I did my own research and turned out what Icke had stated was true. That led me down a rabbit hole and many, many hundreds of hours of independent research.
So, keep an open mind, do your own research, and use discernment. Beware that there is a ton of disinformation on the internet, much of which is intentionally placed to confuse the public. At a CFR meeting on geoengineering (see the article “Millions Spent to Confuse Public About Geoengineering“), M. Granger Morgan stated (it’s captured on video for you to see and hear for yourself):
“First of all, of course, there is a lot of money getting spent to make sure that a very substantial portion of the public stays totally confused about this. And, I mean, it’s been really quite pernicious. But there’s been literally tens of millions of dollars spent on every little thing that comes along that might, you know, relate to some uncertainty.”
What Can We Do?
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” – Margaret Mead
In addition to doing your own research, please spread the word, and get involved. The Thrive Solutions Hub is an excellent place to join with others who are taking positive action steps expose corruption and to create a world in which we can all thrive. You can watch the full Thrive movie on YouTube here.
Ross Pittman is the Editor of ConsciousLife News, where this article was originally featured.
This article is offered under Creative Commons license. It’s okay to republish it anywhere as long as attribution bio is included and all links remain intact.
by brainpanhandler » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:59 am
Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:36 am wrote:AD wrote....It could be that the Illluminati are real and that the stories told by the likes of Cooper, Springmeier, Svali, Marrs, Robertson, Todd, Warnke, Maxwell and Makow are literally true.
Your suggestion seems to be that the ‘Illuminati’ are not ‘real’ because some nasty people have an obsession with them. But what about other credible witnesses, are they discredited because Icke uses their words as evidence to make his case?
Former Presidents Warn About the “Invisible Government” Running the United States
September 13, 2013 | By WakingTimes“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”- George Santayana
Past presidents of the United States and other high profile political leaders have repeatedly issued warnings over the last 214 years that the U.S. government is under the control of an “invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.”
According to six of our former presidents, one vice-president, and a myriad of other high profile political leaders, an invisible government that is “incredibly evil in intent” has been in control of the U.S. government “ever since the days of Andrew Jackson” (since at least 1836). They “virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties… It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”
As a result, “we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.”
The sources for the above quotes (and more) are listed below. All of the quotes in this article have been verified as authentic and have associated links to the source materials. Also included below are statements made by David Rockefeller, Sr, former director of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and Federal Reserve Chairman’s Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke that appear to confirm some of the warnings.
Warnings About the Invisible Government Running the U.S.
The warnings listed below, which appear in chronological order, began with our first president – George Washington. The last president to speak out was JFK, who was assassinated. Read what they and other political leaders have said about the invisible government.
George Washington wrote that the Illuminati want to separate the People from their Government
“It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may… actually had a seperation [sic] of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned.” – George Washington, 1st President of the United States (1789–1797), from a letter that Washington wrote on October 24, 1798, which can be found in the Library of Congress. For an analysis of Washington’s warning, see the article “Library of Congress: George Washington Warns of Illuminati”
“I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.” —Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States (1801–1809) and principal author of the United States Declaration of Independence (1776), in a letter written to John Taylor on May 28, 1816
“A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interests, combined in one mass, and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks.” – John C. Calhoun, Vice President (1825-1832) and U.S. Senator, from a speech given on May 27, 1836
Note that it appears that Washington’s and Jefferson’s concerns regarding bankers and separation of the people from the government was realized by 1836. This fact was confirmed in a letter written by FDR in 1933 (see below) in which he wrote that “a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” Jackson was the seventh president of the United States (1829-1937). Calhoun served as Jackson’s vice-president from 1829-1932.
“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”— Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt, An Autobiography, 1913 (Appendix B)
“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men… [W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913
“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913
“The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation… The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties, … and control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government. It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.” - New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, New York Times, March 26, 1922
“Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government board, has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt…Mr. Chairman, when the Federal Reserve act was passed, the people of the United States did not perceive that a world system was being set up here… and thatthis country was to supply financial power to an international superstate — a superstate controlled by international bankers and international industrialists acting together toenslave the world for their own pleasure.” – Congressman Louis T. McFadden, from a speech delivered to the House of Representatives on June 10, 1932
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” — Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States (1933–1945), in a letter to Colonel Edward M House dated November 21, 1933, as quoted in F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, 1928-1945.
“Today the path to total dictatorship in the U.S. can be laid by strictly legal means… We have a well-organized political-action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state… It operates secretly, silently, continuously to transform our Government… This ruthless power-seeking elite is a disease of our century… This group…is answerable neither to the President, the Congress, nor the courts. It is practically irremovable.” – Senator William Jenner, 1954 speech
“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” —J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, 1956
“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings… Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe… no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of “clear and present danger,” then I can only saythat the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day.It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.” — John F Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, from a speech delivered to the American Newspaper Publishers Association on April 27, 1961 and known as the “Secret Society” speech (click here for full transcript and audio).
“The Rockefellers and their allies have, for at least fifty years, been carefully following a plan to use their economic power to gain political control of first America, and then the rest of the world. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes, I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” Congressman Larry P. McDonald, November 1975, from the introduction to a book titled The Rockefeller File.
“There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” – Daniel K. Inouye, US Senator from Hawaii, testimony at the Iran Contra Hearings, 1986
The Federal Reserve
“A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves…” – John C. Calhoun
“… owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.” – Theodore Roosevelt
“… one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Bank.“ – Louis T. McFadden
In an interview with Jim Lehrer that was aired on PBS’ News Hour on September 18, 2007 that you can watch on YouTube, formal Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said, essentially, that the Federal Reserve was above the law and that no agency of government can overrule their actions:
Jim Lehrer: “What is the proper relationship, what should be the proper relationship between a chairman of the Fed and a president of the United States?”
Alan Greenspan: “Well, first of all, the Federal Reserve is an independent agency, and that means, basically, that there is no other agency of government which can overrule actions that we take. So long as that is in place and there is no evidence that the administration or the Congress or anybody else is requesting that we do things other than what we think is the appropriate thing, then what the relationships are don’t frankly matter.”
The fact that the Fed is above the law was demonstrated by current Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, during his appearance before Congress on March 4, 2009 (as shown in this video). Senator Bernie Sanders asked Bernanke about $2.2 trillion in American tax dollars that was lent out by Federal Reserve. Bernanke refused to provide an answer:
Senator Sanders: “Will you tell the American people to whom you lent $2.2 trillion of their dollars? … Can you tell us who they are?”
Bernanke: “No”
David Rockefeller and the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)
“We have a well-organized political-action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state…” – William Jenner
“The Rockefellers and their allies have, for at least fifty years, been carefully following a plan to use their economic power to gain political control of first America, and then the rest of the world.” – Larry P. McDonald
In 1921 the stockholders of the Federal Reserve financed an organization called the “Council on Foreign Relations” (CFR). A full discussion on the CFR is beyond the scope of this article. Suffice it to say that the CFR likely plays a prominent role in the invisible government that we have been warned about. The CFR is alleged to be the arm of the Ruling Elite in the United States. Most influential politicians, academics and media personalities are members. The CFR uses its influence to push their New World Order agenda on the American people.
David Rockefeller, Sr is the current patriarch of the Rockefeller family. He is the only surviving grandchild of oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, founder of Standard Oil. Rockefeller began a lifelong association with the CFR when he joined as a director in 1949. In Rockefeller’s 2002 autobiography “Memoirs” he wrote:
“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as internationalists and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
James Warburg, son of CFR [Council on Foreign Relations] founder Paul Warburg, delivered blunt testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17, 1950:
“We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest.”
Cognitive Dissonance
“The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” —J. Edgar Hoover
Because of a deep rooted beliefs that the U.S. government is “for the people” and the protector of the free world, many will reject the notion of an evil shadow government. When our beliefs are challenged or when two beliefs are inconsistent, cognitive dissonance is created. It’s human nature to try to hold our beliefs in harmony with our world view and avoid disharmony (or dissonance).
For those of you who having difficulty believing the information presented in this article, I fully understand. For the first 57 years of my life, I would not have believed in the possibility that a shadow government could exist. Three years ago my world view changed. While on vacation in Mount Shasta, I came across a book titled “Global Conspiracy” that seemed strangely out of place in a metaphysical book store. I had never heard of the author before – some guy named David Icke. I scanned through the book and frankly didn’t believe 99% of what I read. But, I saw one thing that caught my attention in that I knew that I could easily verify Icke’s assertion. I did my own research and turned out what Icke had stated was true. That led me down a rabbit hole and many, many hundreds of hours of independent research.
So, keep an open mind, do your own research, and use discernment. Beware that there is a ton of disinformation on the internet, much of which is intentionally placed to confuse the public. At a CFR meeting on geoengineering (see the article “Millions Spent to Confuse Public About Geoengineering“), M. Granger Morgan stated (it’s captured on video for you to see and hear for yourself):
“First of all, of course, there is a lot of money getting spent to make sure that a very substantial portion of the public stays totally confused about this. And, I mean, it’s been really quite pernicious. But there’s been literally tens of millions of dollars spent on every little thing that comes along that might, you know, relate to some uncertainty.”
What Can We Do?
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” – Margaret Mead
In addition to doing your own research, please spread the word, and get involved. The Thrive Solutions Hub is an excellent place to join with others who are taking positive action steps expose corruption and to create a world in which we can all thrive. You can watch the full Thrive movie on YouTube here.
Ross Pittman is the Editor of ConsciousLife News, where this article was originally featured.
This article is offered under Creative Commons license. It’s okay to republish it anywhere as long as attribution bio is included and all links remain intact.
Please, try to deal with the message rather than the easy expedient of slurring and defaming the messenger.
brainpanhandler » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:57 pm wrote:8bitagent wrote:"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere -- so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive -- that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
-Woodrow Wilson
I've seen that quote a lot over the years and never bothered to look up the context. I was thinking about it today and looked it up. It's mentioned on the board a number of times as you might imagine.wikiquote wrote:Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.
They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him. For if he begins to sell to certain retail dealers, to any retail dealers, the monopoly will refuse to sell to those dealers, and those dealers, afraid, will not buy the new man's wares. Section I: “The Old Order Changeth”, p. 13.
Following the link in the wiki article and reading further makes the context pretty mundane by comparison to the dramatic, Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.
Wilson just goes on to talk about free markets and how we didn't have them and the accumulation of capital was stacking the deck against the little man and innovation, yadda, yadda.
I guess I still wonder if he wasn't talking about something else. I mean maybe that's just the style then or it was Wilson's style to be so melodramatic. I don't think it was code for jewish bankers as upon a brief search it doesn't appear Wilson was antisemitic. Was he?
Wilson signed the federal reserve act into law on December 23, 1913.
The book the quote is from, THE NEW FREEDOM A CALL FOR THE EMANCIPATION OF THE GENEROUS ENERGIES OF A PEOPLE:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14 ... 4811-h.htm
was published in 1913. Not sure of the exact date.
compared2what? » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:13 pm wrote:brainpanhandler wrote:I guess I still wonder if he wasn't talking about something else. I mean maybe that's just the style then or it was Wilson's style to be so melodramatic. I don't think it was code for jewish bankers as upon a brief search it doesn't appear Wilson was antisemitic. Was he?
No. He was appealing to then-current antitrust/anti-big-business sentiment in the course of a political campaign. And....If he meant anyone/anything more specific, my best guess would be that it was U.S. Steel. But I'm not very confident about that. Or, really, about what he meant, ftm. What he said is totally compatible with straight-up Progressive-Era-legacy politicking of a completely non-cryptic nature, though. It would have been kinda middle-of-the-road at that time.
ON EDIT: I also don't have the first clue as to whether he was antisemitic. I should add. The "No" was in response to "Was it code for Jewish bankers?" which was what I mistakenly thought you were asking.
It does sound kind of melodramatic. But there was no TV or internet then. So people just had to make their stump-speeches compelling enough to be memorable as best they could, I guess.
brainpanhandler » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:57 am wrote:Skip to 6:20 of part 1/2 for the bit people pull out and quote out of context.kennedy wrote:The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.
The context:
April 27 1961, 10 days after the bay of pigs.
transcript available at:President Kennedy speaks at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City before the American Newspaper Publishers Association. Kennedy asks the press for their cooperation in fighting Communism by applying the same standards for publishing sensitive materials in the current Cold War that they would apply in an officially declared war.
http://millercenter.org/president/speeches/detail/3677
by American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:36 am
Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:36 am wrote:AD wrote....It could be that the Illluminati are real and that the stories told by the likes of Cooper, Springmeier, Svali, Marrs, Robertson, Todd, Warnke, Maxwell and Makow are literally true.
Your suggestion seems to be that the ‘Illuminati’ are not ‘real’ because some nasty people have an obsession with them. But what about other credible witnesses, are they discredited because Icke uses their words as evidence to make his case?
Former Presidents Warn About the “Invisible Government” Running the United States
September 13, 2013 | By WakingTimes“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”- George Santayana
Past presidents of the United States and other high profile political leaders have repeatedly issued warnings over the last 214 years that the U.S. government is under the control of an “invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.”
According to six of our former presidents, one vice-president, and a myriad of other high profile political leaders, an invisible government that is “incredibly evil in intent” has been in control of the U.S. government “ever since the days of Andrew Jackson” (since at least 1836). They “virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties… It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”
As a result, “we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.”...
Please, try to deal with the message rather than the easy expedient of slurring and defaming the messenger.
by Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:10 am
And I do think the above named people are reactionary bullshit artists who should be rejected because they are very bad for the cause. Your statement however, is a straw man.
I do think that parapolitics and intrigue is going on today-
though my view of that is far, far away from anything resembling a monolithic and ancient conspiracy of Rothschilds, freemasons, satanists and zionists who together are running the world from their secret smoky room(s).
by American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:38 am
Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:10 am wrote:While I certainly agree that the Kennedy quotes were mis-appropriated by this author, that still does not address the many warnings given to us coming from people in the know.
I will hazard a guess and suggest that you assume that parapolitics and intrigue are driven by capital accumulation.
by American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:51 am
Conspiracist Scapegoating and Right-Wing Populism
An effective mechanism for inflaming conspiracist scapegoating throughout US history has been apocalyptic forms of right-wing populism, especially when coupled with millennial expectation.134 This dynamic has been obscured because right-wing populism was branded by early academic studies as an "extremist" phenomena among a "lunatic fringe" of the "radical right" embracing a "paranoid style." This idea is a legacy from the first foray into establishing a broad social science outline for studying right wing populism--the pluralist school of analysis which saw right-wing social movements as outbursts of irrational collective behavior fueled by status anxiety. This view is called by critics "centrist/extremist theory."135
Challenging Centrist/Extremist Theory
Centrist/extremist theory arrived with the 1955 publication of a collection of essays titled The New American Right edited by Daniel Bell. Eight years later the collection was expanded and republished under the title, The Radical Right. Contributors to the expanded volume included Bell, Alan F. Westin, Richard Hofstadter, Seymour Martin Lipset, Earl Raab, Peter Viereck, Herbert H. Hyman, Talcott Parsons, David Riesman, and Nathan Glazer. Not all of the authors shared all of the analytical views outlined in the volume, but since 1955 a number of books appeared that either elaborated on or paralleled the general themes of centrist/extremist theory first sketched in The New American Right.136
Centrist/extremist theory, especially as outlined by Lipset, Raab, Viereck, and Bell, sees dissident movements of the left and right as composed of outsiders--politically marginal people who have no connection to the mainstream electoral system or nodes of government or corporate power. Social and economic stress snaps these psychologically-fragile people into a mode of irrational political hysteria, and as they embrace an increasingly paranoid style they make militant and unreasonable demands to defend their social and economic status. Because they are unstable, they can become dangerous and violent. Their extremism places them far outside the legitimate political process, which is located in the center where pluralists conduct civil democratic debates. The solution prescribed by centrist/extremist theory is to marginalize the dissidents as radicals and dangerous religious political extremists. Their grievances and demands need not be taken seriously. Furthermore, law enforcement can then be relied upon to break up any criminal conspiracies by subversive radicals who threaten the social order.
Centrist/extremist theory ignores real power struggles in the society. It is a status-quo oriented frame of reference that too often dismisses dissidents of all stripes. It stifles a healthy public debate over how to unravel systems of oppression, allows individuals to ignore their own complicity in oppressive behavior, and obscures the supremacist forces woven into our society's central institutions.
An increasing number of progressive social scientists and analysts reject centrist/extremist theory and use a different set of theories to explain how social movements work. 137 As Christian Smith observes:
"The 1970s saw a major break in the social-movement literature with earlier theories--e.g., mass society, collective behavior, status discontent, and relative-deprivation theories--that emphasized the irrational and emotional nature of social movements.....There was at the time a decisive pendulum-swing away from these "classical" theories toward the view of social movements as rational, strategically calculating, politically instrumental phenomena."138
Using these new theories, a different paradigm emerges. According to this new paradigm, most people who join right-wing populist movements are not acting out of some personal pathology, but out of anger and desperation They are demonstrating a willingness to grasp at straws in an attempt to defend hearth and home against the furious winds of economic and social change threatening their way of life. They may feel abandoned, or claim that no one in power seems to be listening. They come to believe that no one cares except others in the same predicament. Their anger and fear are frequently based on objective conditions and conflicts--power struggles involving race, gender, ethnicity, or religion; economic hardship; changes in social status; conflicts over cultural issues; and other societal transformations that cause anger, confusion, and anxiety. Whether or not their grievances are legitimate (or even rational) they join with others to confront what they believe is the cause of their problems. Often, instead of challenging structures and institutions of power, they attack demonized scapegoats, often in the form of conspiracist allegations. Sometimes they resort to violence.
If this characterization of right-wing populism is accurate, then activists developing strategies and tactics to challenge these movements need to rethink the ideas and rhetoric based on the centrist/extremist model that favors labels such as "radical right," "wing nuts," "lunatic fringe," or "religious political extremists."139 Racism, sexism, homophobia, and anti-Semitism--along with other forms of supremacist ideology--are not the exclusive domain of marginal and militant groups, but are domiciled in mainstream US culture and politics.
Populist Conspiracism
When conspiracism is blended with populism, the result is frequently a worldview called "producerism." Producerist movements consider the "real" patriotic Americans to be hard-working people in the middle- and working-class who create goods and wealth while fighting against "parasites" at the top and bottom of society who pick their pockets. 140
Gary Allen provides an example of producerism in his 1971 None Dare Call it Conspiracy, which included a graphic chart showing the middle-class being squeezed between the ruling elite "insiders" above, pressured by the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and Council on Foreign Relations, and the rabble below, pressured by "naive radicals" of the left, such as SDS, the Black Panthers, the Yippies, the Young Socialist Alliance, and Common Cause.141 In 1974 Allen updated the scenario in Rockefeller: Campaigning for the New World Order, articulating the anti-globalist theme of much current conspiracism in the Patriot and armed militia movements.142 Allen's work is championed by the John Birch Society.
Producerism not only promotes scapegoating, but also has a history of assuming that a proper citizen is a White male. Historically, groups scapegoated by right-wing populist movements in the US have been immigrants and people of color, especially Blacks. Attention is diverted from inherent white supremacism by using coded language to reframe racism as a concern about specific issues, such as welfare, immigration, tax, or education policies.143 Non-Christian religions, women, gay men and lesbians, youth, students, reproductive rights activists, and environmentalists also are scapegoated.144 Sometimes producerism targets those persons who organize on behalf of impoverished and marginalized communities, especially progressive social change activists.145
The nativist and Americanist movements emerged as a way to promote a broad Christian nationalism, and a way to enforce implicitly white supremacist northern European cultural standards among increasingly diverse immigrant groups.146 Producerism played a key role in a shift from the main early mode of right-wing populist conspiracism which defended the status quo against a mob of "outsiders," originally framed as a conspiracy of Freemasons or Jews or aliens. Today, right-wing populist conspiracism targets the government and other "insiders." According to Michael Billig:
"With the replacement of the old aristocratic orders in Europe and the increasing participation of the middle classes in political life, there came a change in the themes of the conspiracy mythology. In the United States the change accompanied the threats to the hegemony of the old white Anglo-Saxon Protestant group, posed by waves of new immigrants in the middle of the nineteenth century. The conspiracy theory ceased to defend government against conspirators, but located the conspiracy within government, or more often behind government."147
Two organizations representing the nativist tradition--the John Birch Society and the Liberty Lobby--played a significant role in promoting producerism and helping it transform into populist anti-government conspiracist themes during the 1960s and 1970s.148
The John Birch Society (JBS) maintains that internationalist "insiders" with a collectivist agenda, (claimed to be behind both communism and Wall Street capitalism), are engaged in a coordinated drive to destroy national sovereignty and individualism. JBS members are primarily elitist, ultraconservative, and reformist. Its conspiracist theories do not center on scapegoating Jews and Jewish institutions, nor do they center on biological racism. In a more subtle form of racism and anti-Semitism, JBS promotes a culturally-defined WASP ethnocentrism as the true expression of America. Echoing historic producerist themes, implicit racism and anti-Semitism are intrinsic to the group's ideology, but they are not articulated as principles of unity. JBS conspiracist narrative traces back to Robison's book alleging a Illuminati Freemason conspiracy. The Society's roots are in business nationalism, economic libertarianism, anti-communism, Eurocentrism, and Christian fundamentalism.149
The Liberty Lobby's conspiracist narrative is that the secret elites are Jews (descended from non-European bloodlines) who manipulate Blacks and other people of color to destroy national unity and popular will, which derives its strength from a racially-separate organic tribalism. The Lobby is primarily populist, fascist, and insurgent. It promotes conspiracist theories that center on scapegoating Jews and Jewish institutions, and on biological racism as the basis for white supremacist xenophobia. However, through the use of coded rhetoric, and appeals to racial separatism that extol Black nationalist groups, the group attempts, with some success, to mask its core racism and anti-Semitism. The Liberty Lobby relies on historic anti-Semitic conspiracist sources that trace back to the Protocols and its many progeny. Its roots are in isolationism, small business resentment of large corporate interests, and eugenicist White racial nationalism.
The JBS and Liberty Lobby both use populist rhetoric, but JBS members distrust the idea of the sovereignty of the people, and stress that the United States is a republic not a democracy, which they dismiss as a "mobocracy." This explains how the JBS can criticize the alleged secret elites, yet retain an elitist point of view; they want to replace the "bad" elites with the "good" elites--presumably their allies. Both groups use conspiracist scapegoating, a common feature of right-wing populism. Starting in the 1970s, other branches of right-wing populist conspiracism began to grow, in the Christian Right, the Christian Identity religion, the Lyndon LaRouche network, and in both secular and religious forms of survivalism.
Populism can come from the bottom up, but it also can be deployed from the top down--used to attack the status quo by outsider business factions seeking to displace entrenched power structures. These outsider factions use populist rhetoric and conspiracist, anti-elite scapegoating to attract constituencies in the middle class and working class. As right-wing populist movements grow, they can lure mainstream politicians to adopt scapegoating, in order to attract voters. Their theories can legitimize acts of discrimination, or even violence. And reformist populist movements can open the door for insurgent right-wing movements such as fascism to recruit from their own movements by arguing that more drastic action is needed.150 Fascism itself is a distinctive form of conspiracist right-wing populism. Fascist groups are not likely to seize state power in the US (or in most countries), but can seriously damage attempts to extend democracy and equality as they encourage scapegoating and conspiracism in adaptive and creative ways while engaging in recruitment and ideological training.15
Because right-wing conspiracism so often rests on an anti-elite critique, it has been known to fool gullible leftists.152 Various Green Party activists have had to struggle against conspiracism, including the anti-Semitic variant, among members and even a handful of leaders.153 Populist conspiracism also has found a home in certain Black nationalist and Arab anti-imperialist groups.154 Libyan President Muammar Qaddafi has actually tried to unite left and right groups that oppose the US government at meetings in Tripoli, Libya.15
We must be careful to draw a distinction between critiques that extend economic and social justice, and those that claim economic privilege for middle-class consumers at the expense of social justice. Anti-regime criticism is rampant in the conspiracist right.156 There is a need to educate and thus inoculate large sectors of the white middle class and working class against the dead end of right-wing populism with its penchant for scapegoating. If we tolerate the paradigm of conspiracist scapegoating by right-wing economic populists simply because it appears to advance a short-term anti-corporate or anti-government agenda, we are creating a dangerous alliance with people whose long-term vision--wittingly or unwittingly--promotes racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic outcomes.157 We will be throwing our long-term allies overboard and helping sink the ship of state, when we should be plotting a new course on a sturdy vessel we all help to rebuild.
This is especially true given the current period of apocalyptic anxiety and millennial energy, which infuses the Christian right, populist right, and far right.
by Wombaticus Rex » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:48 pm
Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:36 am wrote:
Your suggestion seems to be that the ‘Illuminati’ are not ‘real’ because some nasty people have an obsession with them. But what about other credible witnesses, are they discredited because Icke uses their words as evidence to make his case?
by slimmouse » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:50 pm
by Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:16 pm
Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:36 am wrote:
Your suggestion seems to be that the ‘Illuminati’ are not ‘real’ because some nasty people have an obsession with them. But what about other credible witnesses, are they discredited because Icke uses their words as evidence to make his case?Well, it's a bit like when I go on a drunken rant about the gaping holes in our paradigms of biological evolution and someone eavesdropping steps in to talk about creationism -- after all, we're both saying the same thing, right?
But no: of course not.
Ergo, a "Military Industrial Complex" has essentially nothing -- nothing -- to do with the Bavarian Illuminati and it is a gross category error to conflate the two.
I think AD is bringing a lot of very dismissive and shallow arguments to the table in service of this thread, sure, but the core point is unassailable: we're a lot better off without "Illuminati" in our discourse because it makes us look fucking dumb if we're trying to argue that with a straight face. Hopefully nobody will interpret this as an actual ad hominem.
Edit: slim just started a thread about the "Trans-National Capitalist Class" - love it. That is ontology with potential and without baggage.
by Joao » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:27 pm
Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:10 am wrote:I will hazard a guess and suggest that you assume that parapolitics and intrigue are driven by capital accumulation.
by American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:15 pm
Wombaticus Rex » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:48 pm wrote:Sounder » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:36 am wrote:
Your suggestion seems to be that the ‘Illuminati’ are not ‘real’ because some nasty people have an obsession with them. But what about other credible witnesses, are they discredited because Icke uses their words as evidence to make his case?
Well, it's a bit like when I go on a drunken rant about the gaping holes in our paradigms of biological evolution and someone eavesdropping steps in to talk about creationism -- after all, we're both saying the same thing, right?
But no: of course not.
Ergo, a "Military Industrial Complex" has essentially nothing -- nothing -- to do with the Bavarian Illuminati and it is a gross category error to conflate the two.
I think AD is bringing a lot of very dismissive and shallow arguments to the table in service of this thread, sure, but the core point is unassailable: we're a lot better off without "Illuminati" in our discourse because it makes us look fucking dumb if we're trying to argue that with a straight face. Hopefully nobody will interpret this as an actual ad hominem.
Edit: slim just started a thread about the "Trans-National Capitalist Class" - love it. That is ontology with potential and without baggage.
by minime » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:21 pm
But Illuminati Theory, as elaborated in this thread, is itself so riddled with fucked up material, reactionary politics and unsubstantiated assumptions as to be highly detrimental to the Cause.
by American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:25 pm
minime » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:21 pm wrote:But Illuminati Theory, as elaborated in this thread, is itself so riddled with fucked up material, reactionary politics and unsubstantiated assumptions as to be highly detrimental to the Cause.
And your part in this has been what?
by minime » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:27 pm
American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:25 pm wrote:minime » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:21 pm wrote:But Illuminati Theory, as elaborated in this thread, is itself so riddled with fucked up material, reactionary politics and unsubstantiated assumptions as to be highly detrimental to the Cause.
And your part in this has been what?
To advance a critique of Illuminati Theory and not advocate for it...
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