Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby 82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:05 am

Jesus. This "Obamacare" shit is ridiculous. I went to my state's "calculator" thing for what I will be expected to pay and it's around $300 a month I MUST pay and this includes a $51 "credit". Dude, I don't got no $300 a month to send to some private company or else face a "penalty". Fuck this shit. I'm still wondering how I'm going to pay rent on time as it is. Let a liberal dude chime in and say this is fucking bullshit and I'm not doing it. I do not have the money to send hundreds of dollars a month to a private company for the rest of my life. I have a feeling this is the ultimate scam of our generation.

I simply do not have the $300. How is this even possible and why do all these liberal outlets defend it? Once it hits we're just going to gladly whip out our checkbooks once a month and write a check for $300 because "we have to"?!?!?!
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Sounder » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:44 am

This Obamacare thing has been one long WTF moment to me. Is 'Obamacare' the original branding? Maybe someone can fill us in, but if so, could there possibly be a more narcissistic or big poppa way to brand this additional imposition on poor people?

on edit;forget that silly original comment,- so it's called the affordable care act, I guess unaffordable care act would not sound so good.

The 'Obamacare' branding is meant to make this pig look bad, but is does also obscure the lack of responsibility taken by other politico types for crafting sensible health policy.

(BY putting all focus on Obama.)


So now we are all mandated to pay protection money to the mob and this is presented as a 'good' way to control costs?




WTF? :wallhead:
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby stefano » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:37 am

Can't you just say you don't have the money? I thought the point was that those who don't have the means enjoy the same coverage? Is there some means test to it?

But it is more or less a protection scam. As I have it the insurers (who have been generous donors to Joe Biden in particular) persuaded the Democrats to take this version of healthcare, rather than the single-payer system that has historically been the Dem goal. So they lock in subscriptions from those who pay, and the government pays on behalf of those who can't (again, as I have it, but I'm not sure I have it right).
User avatar
stefano
 
Posts: 2672
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby justdrew » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:00 pm

well, that's an 'estimator' and for "silver" plans, once it goes live, you'd be able to pick a less expensive plan. the whole thing doesn't look fully working yet, and IIRC there will be subsidies beyond that meager 'tax credit' line they have in there.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:08 pm

82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:05 am wrote:I have a feeling this is the ultimate scam of our generation.


I recently got health insurance for the first time since I was 18. I took this job to get it.

The joke, of course, is that I don't get paid enough to visit the doctor.

But hey: I have health insurance.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:10 pm

Sounder » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:44 am wrote:Is 'Obamacare' the original branding? Maybe someone can fill us in, but if so, could there possibly be a more narcissistic or big poppa way to brand this additional imposition on poor people?


No. That was GOP/TP messaging that stuck so Axelrod, in a typically lateral move, decided to embrace it. Now they make T-Shirts and bumper stickers proclaiming it "Obamacare" with the logo and all that.

Perception isn't everything: it is the only thing.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:28 pm

FWIW: What are the penalties for non-compliance?

As near as yours truly can establish, these facts go like so:

In 2014, you will be fined $95.
In 2015, you will be fined $325.
In 2016, you will be fined $695.

At my income level, non-compliance represents a vast savings compared to participation.

I don't know if this is nationwide, but here in Vermont, where I get insurance through my employer, we're all being forced off in 2014. Based on the data currently on the VT Health Exchange (or, you know, whateverthefuck it is called this month) my cheapest option through Obamacare remains more expensive than my current coverage...so it makes sense I shouldn't be allowed to have it anymore!
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:00 pm

The statute recognizes nine exemptions from the individual responsibility requirement. Eligibility for two of these exemptions — the hardship exemption and religious conscience exemption — will be determined exclusively by the exchange. The exchanges can also issue certificates of exemption for members of health care sharing ministries, members of Indian tribes, or persons who are incarcerated, although individuals who qualify for these categories can forgo obtaining a certificate from the exchange and claim the exemption at the time they file their taxes.

For applicants who qualify for the four remaining exemptions — lack of affordable coverage (premiums for a bronze policy cost more than 8 percent of income), income below the tax filing limit, unlawful presence in the United States, or short term (under 3 months) gaps in coverage — the exchange will not issue a certificate of exemption, but the exemption will rather be claimed at the time of filing for taxes (if at all). An applicant can apply for multiple exemptions simultaneously.


http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2013/06/2 ... l-mandate/
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
User avatar
Cosmic Cowbell
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:12 pm

http://www.wahbexchange.org/news-resour ... our-costs/

Interested in this so just for fun I went to the Washington Exchange and calculated cost randomly.

So a single adult @ age 30 making $55,000 a year pays $262 for the Silver Plan. @ $25,000 it's $144 amonth. Am I doing it wrong? If not, is this unreasonable?

Not sure how you got to $300 after the credit. Could you share?

Plugging in different variables, regardless of how you slice it (at least in Wash) it never comes out as unreasonable compared to the potential cost of healthcare without insurance. Add up your weed and drink bill for the year and then deduct that from the cost and it starts looking even better.

I suspect at some point, just as with college loans, healthcare expenses racked up if you decide to forego becoming part of the system will be exempt from bankruptcy proceedings. We'll see...
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
User avatar
Cosmic Cowbell
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby kelley » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:50 pm

i simply cannot understand how it is even remotely constitutionally legal to be required to fucking buy something.
kelley
 
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:49 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby 82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:28 pm

It wasn't $300 exactly, but as in my "industry" I round up and round down. $260 to me is $300. However, I am now required to claim money made under the table as of two months ago because my place of employment after a good 20 years of doing it as they did it started having the IRS breathe down their necks and the rest of us employees. Washington State has the most regressive tax laws in the country, so I am paying my taxes no matter what whether it be cash or electronic transfers -- I am a little guy and am not skirting the system. It is all sales taxes here. If you found a twenty on the street in March and another twenty the next month because your grandma sent it to you for your birthday, would you claim it? There is no income tax here. However, as of this IRS sweating my employers I am now losing around $400 a month now just in wages. Yet they are cutting transit yet again by around 13%. Adding tolls to roads and bilking us in gas taxes, soda taxes, candy taxes, alcohol taxes -- and it is never enough.

However, I cannot afford to even save any more with this scheme. And no, I will not be cutting a check monthly for whatever it is they say the rubric is in determining how much I am able to pay. No, I will not stand to be "penalized" either. Fuck no. And some may say this doesn't apply, yet it does. There is no "reasonable price" with health care in the US. It is a scam, up and down and I refuse. I have, we all have, it bad enough as it is.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby justdrew » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:42 pm

yes, the entire health care system is a scam, just like every other economic sector.

If something goes seriously wrong the only play is to get yourself declared "disabled" or maybe imprisoned - otherwise you're basically no-hope, state medicaid is next to useless for most and you wont qualify till you've expended all your assets anyway.

Unless you've got a great job with insurance, but of course, even if you do have a good job, and actually get sick enough you can't come to work, how long will you have that job and insurance? Not long. Who wants to employ a sickie? Just drives up the group costs for everyone else. So some reason will be found why the sickie has to go. Just another round of "downsizing" - nothing personal doncha know.

We are at the point where we need revolutionary change. They are not going to stop until everyone is broke and dead. They really can't stop... The whole fucking economic system in this country needs SMASHED into a million pieces.

Things are so fucked up it's mind boggling.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:15 am

82_28 » 26 Sep 2013 19:28 wrote:It wasn't $300 exactly, but as in my "industry" I round up and round down. $260 to me is $300. However, I am now required to claim money made under the table as of two months ago because my place of employment after a good 20 years of doing it as they did it started having the IRS breathe down their necks and the rest of us employees. Washington State has the most regressive tax laws in the country, so I am paying my taxes no matter what whether it be cash or electronic transfers -- I am a little guy and am not skirting the system. It is all sales taxes here. If you found a twenty on the street in March and another twenty the next month because your grandma sent it to you for your birthday, would you claim it? There is no income tax here. However, as of this IRS sweating my employers I am now losing around $400 a month now just in wages. Yet they are cutting transit yet again by around 13%. Adding tolls to roads and bilking us in gas taxes, soda taxes, candy taxes, alcohol taxes -- and it is never enough.

However, I cannot afford to even save any more with this scheme. And no, I will not be cutting a check monthly for whatever it is they say the rubric is in determining how much I am able to pay. No, I will not stand to be "penalized" either. Fuck no. And some may say this doesn't apply, yet it does. There is no "reasonable price" with health care in the US. It is a scam, up and down and I refuse. I have, we all have, it bad enough as it is.


So based on your figures is it a fair assumption that you are a single male making around 55K a year? You didn't mention any deduction so I'm just trying to get a grasp of your situation and trying to sympathize. I suppose a question might be what you think you should be paying for healthcare insurance if anything and if you think you should how you come to a fair figure. As for all the other things you mention wrt Wash and it's taxes, you don't have to tell me as I was born and raised in Ballard but I'm curious as to how you relate this to healthcare expense? Your right, you don't pay an income tax and so sales taxes are imposed. It washes out for the most part, in some states more than others.

If you don't buy into the system as it stands and as unfair as it might be, if you were to get into a serious car accident and your spine is crushed or you suffer a serious head injury, what would you do? If you contract Hepatitis C, Salmonella or some other ailment who would you expect to pay the bills and why if you have made the personal decision to opt out? Simply become an expense of the state and in turn society? What If everyone did this? Is there a morality play here somewhere? I'm just trying to get a handle on all this...and none of this is directed at you particularly friend but more in a general sense of what is "right" or "just" in this reality.

I agree that healthcare should not be for profit and yet understand as well the expense and time it takes to become a physician, the expense of insurance born by both physicians and hospital wrt to litigation, the machines that go Bing and so on. I doubt the US and how things are done will change anytime soon so for me it's a matter of figuring how to work within the system rather than simply saying fuck it. The system will get along without your contribution. You however, if you ever need it (and I pray you won't but shit happens), will not.That would be unfortunate.
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
User avatar
Cosmic Cowbell
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:29 am

What's good about the ACA? Based on people I know personally who have been directly or indirectly affected.

* College students able to be covered under parents plans for 2 extra years, especially beneficial in the current economic climate of few damn jobs to be found.
* Otherwise "un-insurable" individuals cannot be denied coverage.
* Lots of people previously ineligible for insurance due solely to economic circumstances now have the ability to get some.
* Eliminates lifetime maximum coverage limits. Horrible idea from a business/risk perspective, but helpful to those black sheep who get seriously sick and run up against the bottom line.

What's bad about the ACA?
* Mandate to purchase insurance. The only constitutional argument involves a lot of lawyers playing with words, i.e. legal mumbo jumbo bullshit.
* It's not a single-payer system, which was and remains the only sensible route if there is to be a mandate requiring universal coverage. Related to the mandate, it's a giant cash giveaway of personal and taxpayer dollars to the largest, most powerful and profitable insurance companies. Insurance companies are one of the largest employers and biggest money makers the metro areas of this state where I live, . Wellmark/Blue Cross Blue Shield has a monopoly and is gaining more market share as a result of ACA provisions. No competition, no free market, no price controls.
* It doesn't directly affect health care and health care costs, only health insurance. Admittedly, there is a potential for uncovered individuals to now access the insurance system, but that doesn't necessarily mean an improved situation. I have health insurance through a small co. below 50 employees not covered under most ACA provisions. Despite having insurance, like someone posted above, I can't actually afford to access the care it supposedly provides. It covers some of the cost of a doctor's visit and a prescription if I want one, but a serious medical issue would still break me financially despite coverage. The ACA doesn't fix that.
* Since I can't afford to access the actual care despite insurance, I am paying for other people's care without getting any benefit ofmy own.
* Some employers are dropping insurance or reducing hours to avoid dealing with the bureaucracy. Those people can go to the exchange, but all signs point to the exchange plans costing more for less.


I'm sure more can be added to both these lists. I've withheld judgment on the ACA for a long time, hoping it will turn out to be an improvement to a system that is obviously broken, while being equally disgusted with how the bill was passed, the industry perks that were included and how the GOP has built a following by pretending to try and stop it. However, the more I learn about it, the more I see it as a decent idea (universal coverage) mired in bad legislation that amounts to a corporate giveaway that will cause more problems than it fixes. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, but I have little reason for optimism at this point.

My pessimism toward the ACA comes despite full knowledge that the majority of the anti Obamacare talking points are complete BS. Earlier today I read an article claiming it will allow hospitals to ration care for dying people to grow profits by delaying such care till they die, thereby avoiding costs. Such arguments are presented as if this isn't already the case. Although we are told "they can't do that," one of my best friends was sentenced to die when denied care and thrown out of the hospital for being uninsured by the "non profit" Genesis Medical Center while facing a fatal but treatable condition. He luckily ended up at a hospital in the state university system where they gave him the required surgery despite his inability to pay and wrote off the debt. If I thought the ACA would actually solve such situations, I could get behind it despite my reservations. Truth is, I don't see it solving that situation at all, only bleeding more from all of us while now-mandated insurance premiums continue to increase and the level of care purchased with those premiums falls even closer to the point of non-existence.
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
User avatar
mentalgongfu2
 
Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:02 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Hell no, I ain't paying another $300 a month (ACA)

Postby Nordic » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:08 am

mentalgongfu2 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:29 am wrote:

* Otherwise "un-insurable" individuals cannot be denied coverage.




Yeah, but what does that even mean? If I lose my coverage due to lack of hours worked in my union, people say "well you can always switch over to COBRA!" But guess what -- to get the same benefits I have no, fucking COBRA would cost me two thousand fucking dollars a month! Two thousand fucking dollars! Then -- it runs out!


"Cannot be denied coverage" could very well mean "well sure you can have coverage, you with the deathly food allergy and the heart murmur and the diabetes -- it'll cost you a mere $10,000 a month. We take checks!"

The whole thing is goddamn bullshit. It's gonna destroy so many things, and so many lives.

Yeah, one more infuriating fucking over from our government.

Shut it down. Defund it, I don't give a shit any more. Just shut down the fucking MILITARY, the CIA, and the NSA and the FBI while you're at it (you know they'll never do that).
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 171 guests