Fixed Flat Earth?

[backtoiam]

The sanctioned reality box is always present-- both inside and outside the mainstream. We’re allowed to think/voice/question only the thoughts/opinions/questions/topics that are sanctioned by the boundaries of this box. Any who attempt to step outside the boundaries of this box are punished and it doesn't take long to figure where those boundaries lie. Yet we've been lied to, tricked, deceived and treated like chattel-cattle from the very beginning...we have a right to be very suspicious of everything, especially the unsanctioned.

The boundaries at RI are very clear. Yes, you can discuss topics and information ignored by the mainstream, but don't venture too far, and by all means do NOT ever question what's become the rigidly intolerant dogma of liberal/secular politics and of the scientific elite.

Having said that, RI has never removed my comments and/or threads and--obviously--I haven't been banned and for that I'm grateful. And I stay here because I'm even more uncomfortable with the black and white thinking and rigidly intolerant dogma of conservative politics and that of conservative Christians (I'm much more a liberal Christian). But I'm not here to divide or conquer. I don't even start many threads--even though there are a lot of topics I'd like to explore--mainly because I really don't like to instigate wrath (I'm a Libra ) and as WR so aptly stated, lack the competence to conquer, which I have ZERO desire to do, anyway.

I could have not said it better myself brother man.

Not many people ever learned much inside the the thought fence the cattle are confined within. Do what you will brother. If somebody shames you, look harder, might be something there.

I know you realize the earth is not flat. You never thought it was anyway. But never let anybody shame you out of thinking, and investigating, whatever the hell your little heart desires.

There is nothing wrong with your name. Actually, it is, the exact way humanity is kept from thinking for itself. I'm sorry you caught grief for this thread. Fuckers should have stayed out of it right?

Carry on brother, never stop questioning, and when they tell you that you are an asshole for asking questions, ask more...

People that don't like this thread punished themselves with it didn't they? They should have skipped it.

[JackRiddler]

As in *absolutely every* conspiracy of this type, thousands of conspirators are not in any way required.

That was a great laugh, because of course in this case *billions* of conspirators would be required.

The reason for this is one simple but unpleasant fact: human beings in western culture do not care what is true.

Or any other culture, since none of them do flat earth.

We only care about the truth when it suits us. And very often the truth does not suit us, because our current culture is built upon layers and layers of mutually agreed-upon lies.

If one assumes that our current culture is based upon humanity's best and honest appraisal of what is true, then I might have difficulty discussing the finer points of reality with that person, because we are divergent on a very fundamental point about the world.

And if one agrees that our current culture is infused with layers of mutually agreed-upon self deception, then that person would not be so quick to casually disregard a subject that our thoroughly corrupt and deceptive culture sneers and laughs at.

This does not mean that an aggressively opposed subject is necessarily true, it means that I don't consider it wise to follow the consensus of a culture built upon lies, or the consensus of authority figures who are nearly 100% illegitimate.

Pious and empty generalities that say nothing whatsoever about any given truth-claim. But they very nicely set up the major laugh line that follows:

This post does not speak specifically to the subject of flat earth, but rather to the underlying emotionally-based attitudes that cause people to attack those who seriously consider ideas that our appointed "intelligentsia" have deemed off-limits.

So it's time to get over our emotionally-based attitudes, including those that show false tolerance toward an "intelligentsia." No ideas should be deemed off limits! Mine is that Brandon D and divideandconquer and others pushing the crisis actors theory for certain recent shooting events and the flat-earth thread are a set of trolls working together to finish off RI. "As in *absolutely every* conspiracy of this type, thousands of conspirators are not in any way required."

[norton ash]

I'm with you, Jack. This much attention at RI to the worthless backside of CT in recent months really does not appear coincidental or a sign of the times... and it really is just a few conspirators.

[seemslikeadream]

funny I thought the numerous OP's about how this site has become grand central for fascist and anti-Semitics (for over 8 years) would be the take down


according to three crusading members here there has been an on going attempt to infiltrate this site with nazis

and I find it much more destructive to constantly accuse long time members here of being anti-semites for the last 8 years

[norton ash]

Whaddaya know, backtoiam dropped three distinctive turds in 'Russia Today founder dead' the ' Military Buildup Syria' and the 'SoCal Lights' threads this morning. Signs and wonders.

[stefano]

Mathematicians (quickly replacing priests in a secularized society) now have the whispered voice of 'the Great Architect' at their disposal - and obviously the greatest secrets exist in a language known only to high practioners, that few can understand, let alone dispute.

And their power is immense and shall not be questioned. I know better than to try.

Of course they can be questioned, and we absolutely must question them. But it's imperative that we know what the fuck we're talking about when we do. If you think the kind of wilful ignorance that's been on display in this thread is radically subversive, a credible threat to the mighty, then you're making a serious mistake. The mighty are asking each other over $50 steaks: 'so, have you heard Flat Earth is making a comeback?', and laughing their tits off. That's why it's no stretch to think this thing is being pushed. I don't think it is - I think it's just two utter loons who have independently come up with bullshit that happens to resonate at this time. (By the way though, I find it hysterical that one loon is now accusing the other loon of being controlled opposition. 'You limited hangout motherfucker!' I hope Luther is taking notes for his play.) But creationism and climate change denial are very definitely the subjects of conspiracy, with known players and known objectives. So, if Flat Earthery is not yet being pushed, I reckon it will be soon.

The way all of this plays into US politics is also fairly clear. I don't know if you saw that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both, in the space of a week, felt comfortable publicly mocking the Republication presidential candidates. And they could. Because those guys (and Carly Fiorina) are a ludicrous display. There is nothing left in America for an old-school conservative to vote for. The Republican Party has become a refuge for racists and morons, and that suits the mighty just fine. With some high-profile exceptions, the money is on Hillary. And this hardcore anti-knowledge fringe deepens the divide and strengthens the corporate candidate. That was apparent with Obama already. You know: 'so, maybe he murders Pakistani kids and fucks the poor, but at least he's not an idiot.' So, using 2016 as an example, when Sanders drops out then social-democrats are going to end up voting Clinton, right? At least she's not a moron.

Somewhat related: Jon Schwarz at A tiny revolution once used a frame that I find very useful:

Almost all political conflict, especially in the US, boils down to a fight between the Sane Billionaires and the Insane Billionaires. It generally follows this template:

INSANE BILLIONAIRES: Let's kill everyone and take their money!

SANE BILLIONAIRES: I like the way you think. I really do. But if we keep everyone alive, and working for us, we'll make even more money, in the long term.

INSANE BILLIONAIRES: You communist!!!

So from a progressive perspective, you always have to hope the Sane Billionaires win. Still, there's generally a huge chasm between what the Sane Billionaires want and what progressives want.

Climate change, healthcare, war... The sane billionaires get your vote because they're sane. But they still want to fuck you. And ambient insanity makes sanity seem important, and constructive policy like a nice-to-have. Maybe we'll get it in eight years' time!

[PufPuf93]

I don't think any posters want to take down RI.

Strong informed opinions and personalities insures that some rumbles will occur.

I would hope that any poster deliberately seeding strife at RI would be banned.

Interesting thoughts and data can come from pondering the ridiculous to a certain but limited extent.

HMW seems to be a good case study for RI.

[divideandconquer]

Dear GatekeeperJack, Compared to your intimidating and almighty presence here, I'm merely a grain of sand. Since 2012 (when I registered) I started approx 4 or 5 threads and responded about 400 times. In other words, if I wanted to destroy RI, don't you think I would've started more threads? posted more often?

[General Patton]

There's been an on-going debate over people giving the flat-earther's a platform on the alt-right. A sample:

http://forumtherightstuffdotbiz/topic/3 ... past-month
http://renegadetribunedotcom/flat-earth ... -mccarthy/

I see this and I cannot help but conclude that she is a phony, planted in our movement to discredit us. Seriously how can anyone believe in a flat earth? Jesus Christ. Why do you think sailors can’t see the coast? The curvature of the earth is visible.

It was maybe kind of a little bit funny in a nihilistic shitposting sort of way when that Flat Earth Nationalism article did its first round but its ridiculous persistence really seems to be the work of some fuckwit/s trying to sow discord and provide ammunition for ridicule by external parties. What the fug is this shit?

I suppose it’s possible this is a giant troll effort. But if not she needs to be purged. Seriously we can’t have people like this anywhere near us if we want to attract anyone who isn’t a nut. This is just like Alex Jones’ Lizard Men stuff. Then again she is cozy with red ice and they had previously been into all kinds of conspiracy shit. I think the people from red ice went along with people who said the moon landing was fake and that the world is controlled by people with giant heads.

We need to go onto 100% damage control. This is very bad, very, very bad.

Fuck she was our poster girl, too.

Goddammit. This is a set back. Do we sweep this under the rug or enact an utter and brutal purge?

[backtoiam]

Whaddaya know, backtoiam dropped three distinctive turds in 'Russia Today founder dead' the ' Military Buildup Syria' and the 'SoCal Lights' threads this morning. Signs and wonders.

Sorry if I offended anybody. It was in the news when I woke up.

[JackRiddler]

Mathematicians (quickly replacing priests in a secularized society) now have the whispered voice of 'the Great Architect' at their disposal - and obviously the greatest secrets exist in a language known only to high practioners, that few can understand, let alone dispute.

And their power is immense and shall not be questioned. I know better than to try.

Of course they can be questioned, and we absolutely must question them. But it's imperative that we know what the fuck we're talking about when we do. If you think the kind of wilful ignorance that's been on display in this thread is radically subversive, a credible threat to the mighty, then you're making a serious mistake. The mighty are asking each other over $50 steaks: 'so, have you heard Flat Earth is making a comeback?', and laughing their tits off. That's why it's no stretch to think this thing is being pushed. I don't think it is - I think it's just two utter loons who have independently come up with bullshit that happens to resonate at this time. (By the way though, I find it hysterical that one loon is now accusing the other loon of being controlled opposition. 'You limited hangout motherfucker!' I hope Luther is taking notes for his play.) But creationism and climate change denial are very definitely the subjects of conspiracy, with known players and known objectives. So, if Flat Earthery is not yet being pushed, I reckon it will be soon.

The way all of this plays into US politics is also fairly clear. I don't know if you saw that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both, in the space of a week, felt comfortable publicly mocking the Republication presidential candidates. And they could. Because those guys (and Carly Fiorina) are a ludicrous display. There is nothing left in America for an old-school conservative to vote for. The Republican Party has become a refuge for racists and morons, and that suits the mighty just fine. With some high-profile exceptions, the money is on Hillary. And this hardcore anti-knowledge fringe deepens the divide and strengthens the corporate candidate. That was apparent with Obama already. You know: 'so, maybe he murders Pakistani kids and fucks the poor, but at least he's not an idiot.' So, using 2016 as an example, when Sanders drops out then social-democrats are going to end up voting Clinton, right? At least she's not a moron.

Somewhat related: Jon Schwarz at A tiny revolution once used a frame that I find very useful:

Almost all political conflict, especially in the US, boils down to a fight between the Sane Billionaires and the Insane Billionaires. It generally follows this template:

INSANE BILLIONAIRES: Let's kill everyone and take their money!

SANE BILLIONAIRES: I like the way you think. I really do. But if we keep everyone alive, and working for us, we'll make even more money, in the long term.

INSANE BILLIONAIRES: You communist!!!

So from a progressive perspective, you always have to hope the Sane Billionaires win. Still, there's generally a huge chasm between what the Sane Billionaires want and what progressives want.

Climate change, healthcare, war... The sane billionaires get your vote because they're sane. But they still want to fuck you. And ambient insanity makes sanity seem important, and constructive policy like a nice-to-have. Maybe we'll get it in eight years' time!

Excellent! This is what I call "confusionism." The tropes of the anti-reality right -- whether or not pushed by the right, or just picked up by the credulous as in the RI case -- play an indispensable role in disciplining the discourse along the genuinely hegemonic, corporatist lines. In part by presenting all alternatives as insane and laughable, in part by invalidating discourse itself by making it impossible to keep any term stable in its referents, in part by adding sheer noise. This is an organic effect, for the most part, it doesn't require steering, but there's plenty of visible steering as well.

as for this:

That's why it's no stretch to think this thing is being pushed. I don't think it is - I think it's just two utter loons who have independently come up with bullshit that happens to resonate at this time.

Spoiler: Spoiler:I don't think so either. Since they're so common, I can never resist illustrating how the general logic and the particular tropes of confusionism popular on RI -- "controlled opposition," "if it's in the media it's a lie," "if someone has a platform it's because THEY want it so," "if one thing is a false flag everything can be," "you can never know anything for sure, so all questions remain open and valid," "paid experts may have an interest to make a given claim, therefore anything ever said by one is invalidated in all other contexts," "reality may be a simulation, so anything goes," "refutation is a form of censorship," "those who don't play nice are just like THEM," "science is an industry subject to corruption, therefore it's always corrupt" -- almost always, by their nature, can be applied to those who rely on them, in ways that make more sense than the theories employing confusionist logic, like crisis actors and flat earth.

[Wombaticus Rex]

There's been an on-going debate over people giving the flat-earther's a platform on the alt-right. A sample:

^^^A telling and hilarious parallel, thank you for inserting that here.

The boundaries at RI are very clear. Yes, you can discuss topics and information ignored by the mainstream, but don't venture too far, and by all means do NOT ever question what's become the rigidly intolerant dogma of liberal/secular politics and of the scientific elite.

...and thanks for the LULZ. I'm contemplating replacing our posting guidelines with that, verbatim.

[backtoiam]

I think its just funny that nobody yet has said what flat earth really means. In an esoteric sense...

[coffin_dodger]

Stef:

If you think the kind of wilful ignorance that's been on display in this thread is radically subversive, a credible threat to the mighty, then you're making a serious mistake

Fuck me, I'm so far off base with my comms skills that I'm wondering if should just stop while the gettin's good. I had absolutely no idea that is how I project myself.

[stefano]

Stef:

If you think the kind of wilful ignorance that's been on display in this thread is radically subversive, a credible threat to the mighty, then you're making a serious mistake

Fuck me, I'm so far off base with my comms skills that I'm wondering if should just stop while the gettin's good. I had absolutely no idea that is how I project myself.

I didn't necessarily think you were - that's just a way of thinking that seemed to come up...

But mathematicians as powerful priests is an important and interesting frame. You can go and check how many of the billionaires in charge have backgrounds in calculus and physics. It's a lot, especially among American hedgies and Russian oligarchs.

On the other hand, positing that the people who go and spend night after night tracking stars and compiling that data into public files that anyone can look at are participating in a grand conspiracy is silly. I keep thinking of Luther's play; maybe there's a movie in this. Opening scene: an observatory where guys with stupidly expensive educations are just sitting around for the 500th night in a row (stars don't move so there's no point tracking them) and laughing at the idiots who think something is happening.