Why does Hinduism receive criticism in Western media?

[guruilla]

[
I disagree. I don't think we should tolerate the outright barbaric shit happening in places like Saudi Arabia and India (no, I'm not advocating invading India).

Right. The world needs civilizing & who better to do it than the Western Empire, whose record as a civilizing influence is a shining example for all others to follow.

[Perelandra]

A couple of progressive/Marxist-oriented friends rail viciously against Hinduism, mainly for its caste system. Nothing can budge their wholesale condemnation.

I could be wrong, but I thought the caste system was primarily a cultural artifact and not entirely born from the religion, though it intertwines now. Also, IIRC, it is showing signs of reform and improvement.

Yes, I tried telling the friends all that, to no effect.

For one thing, Hinduism is vast in its variety. I don't know if anyone really comprehends the whole of it. I see a lot of beauty and mystery in Hinduism.

The Hindu nationalist current strikes me as oddly un-Hindu. My impression of Hinduism in history (I've studied India over the years, both academically and informally, but have never visited) has been of a remarkable tolerance for other religions and a readiness to fold in aspects of other faiths (further contributing to its great variety), and yet remain 'distinctly' Hindu.

And the art! The art!

Interesting points, don't know much about it really. Just chiming in to drop off a link about the caste issues. A friend has a FB friend over there who she thinks is Dalit, she couldn't remember the name but it sounds right. Anyway, he tells her his people are suffering terribly and to please help them.

http://navsarjan.org/navsarjan/dalits/whoaredalits

[DrEvil]

[
I disagree. I don't think we should tolerate the outright barbaric shit happening in places like Saudi Arabia and India (no, I'm not advocating invading India).

Right. The world needs civilizing & who better to do it than the Western Empire, whose record as a civilizing influence is a shining example for all others to follow.

So you're fine with young girls being gang raped and murdered because they're the wrong caste, or young girls being sentenced to gang rape by village elders for something their brother did, or people getting beheaded by the state for saying the wrong thing, or Muslims being lynched for allegedly eating beef?

It's fucking barbaric and needs to stop, but clearly that's not the politically correct answer.

[tapitsbo]

I can't speak for guruilla, but if we're going to be candidly principled as you just were then why not be candid about all groups? Maybe you are, DrEvil, but the MSM isn't.

Of course in doing so we'd still be demanding that our values be used to "civilize" everyone else, possibly by force a la R2P, and I really doubt the wisdom of that.

Maybe a better approach would be finding spheres within other societies that share common values and hopes for transformation, instead of singling out the most "barbaric" elements and trying to export band-aids from across the world.

I guess there are a couple different issues I'm trying to sort through here.

My guess is that the West finds it easier to pass paternalistic judgement on Hinduism since the latter isn't meant to be a universal system that in theory could be for all people... or at least this isn't a central focus of the religion.

Islam is at least to some extent a universalizing system which is part of the strength of its challenge to the West. It's tough for the West to talk coherently about Islam because Islam seems to reject with particular vigor attempts to absorb it into a global system as just another sub-identity in a system meant to exert uniform power over the planet.

Western modernity seems largely based on a secession from Christianity which helps explain the contemporary attitude to that religion.

I am not a Christian but I am in interested in what happens when a group opposes both Islam and Western secular universalism, regardless of what other groups are just fine living under both or either.

And when I say "Western secular universalism" it should be obvious that the USA is at the centre of this. It's no accident that the UN was headquartered there, after all. For me, the way these institutions were made "for everyone" yet quite clearly remain the products of a specific place and time is quite enough to render them highly questionable.

[guruilla]

[
I disagree. I don't think we should tolerate the outright barbaric shit happening in places like Saudi Arabia and India (no, I'm not advocating invading India).

Right. The world needs civilizing & who better to do it than the Western Empire, whose record as a civilizing influence is a shining example for all others to follow.

So you're fine with young girls being gang raped and murdered because they're the wrong caste, or young girls being sentenced to gang rape by village elders for something their brother did, or people getting beheaded by the state for saying the wrong thing, or Muslims being lynched for allegedly eating beef?

It's fucking barbaric and needs to stop, but clearly that's not the politically correct answer.

You just did exactly the thing you were complaining about previously. You could work for Fox news with that sort of rhetoric.

[NeonLX]

On edit: I've reduced my previous post to a one-liner. Pushing the god button seems to bring the most bang for the buck.

Raping and murdering in the name of god has got to be the sinniest of sins. At least they would be if I was god (or the avatar of one).

[DrEvil]

[
I disagree. I don't think we should tolerate the outright barbaric shit happening in places like Saudi Arabia and India (no, I'm not advocating invading India).

Right. The world needs civilizing & who better to do it than the Western Empire, whose record as a civilizing influence is a shining example for all others to follow.

So you're fine with young girls being gang raped and murdered because they're the wrong caste, or young girls being sentenced to gang rape by village elders for something their brother did, or people getting beheaded by the state for saying the wrong thing, or Muslims being lynched for allegedly eating beef?

It's fucking barbaric and needs to stop, but clearly that's not the politically correct answer.

You just did exactly the thing you were complaining about previously. You could work for Fox news with that sort of rhetoric.

What was I complaining about earlier? Could you be more specific?
You didn't answer my question btw.

[DrEvil]

I can't speak for guruilla, but if we're going to be candidly principled as you just were then why not be candid about all groups? Maybe you are, DrEvil, but the MSM isn't.

Of course in doing so we'd still be demanding that our values be used to "civilize" everyone else, possibly by force a la R2P, and I really doubt the wisdom of that.

Maybe a better approach would be finding spheres within other societies that share common values and hopes for transformation, instead of singling out the most "barbaric" elements and trying to export band-aids from across the world.
...

Opposing the things I listed previously (murder, rape, execution) isn't a Western value. It's basic human decency.

Getting things to change is tricky and it will take a long, long time, but that's no reason not to try.
I agree with you that change should come from within, but I have no problem with giving them a good nudge if needed. Giving everyone a good education and access to basic healthcare and nutrition would be a good start (right now about 50% of Indian children are stunted. Hyperbolic translation: They're raising a generation of brain-damaged idiots).

[tapitsbo]

No, sanctions on rape and murder can be found all over the world. I guess these crimes happen in India, and elsewhere, including close to home. The problems with health are serious too. Are these things the same as Hinduism, though?

This is drifting a ways away from what I was getting at with the thread, though: at least in this century Western mainstream institutions are queasy about criticizing some cultures, but happy to criticize others.

[Searcher08]

It was pointed out to me the other day that a lot of the issues which Hinduism receives criticism for in Western media (religious nationalism, "superstition", gender stuff) NEVER provoke the same opprobrium when Muslim or certain other cultures are concerned.

Meanwhile there is a worldwide Hindu diaspora that seems to largely be very peaceful, successful, and open to dialogue with other civilizations - while again and again I've been told that many of the worst problems in India, while they may involve corrupt indigenous elites, have substantial anchoring in "international development loans" that are in truth pyramid schemes designed to hinder, not help, the areas they are supposedly giving aid to.

Why is Hinduism treated as a pariah when other religions/cultures are untouchable?

Cheers for this,tapitsbo - I was really surprised by it (one of my favourite things at RI) and perhaps it represents a view based on North American media?

FWIW, I cannot recall Hinduism per se receiving criticism in UK media. There has been a lot of criticism about cultural attitudes to women primarily in North India and the very poor Eastern states.

From memory, the worst I have seen is about opening a big Hindu temple and locals doing vox-pops... "OMG What about our parking?!". Diwali is covered in a very positive way, big Hindu festivals in India always seem to be covered similarly.

There has been some great comedy from Indian Brits over the years btw


In the UK media, from a geo-politics point of view, India is always portrayed as being very tight with Israel.

[tapitsbo]

Right, I definitely am familiar with such a benevolent portrayal from when I was younger in Canada.

My question in the OP actually was the result of reading recent articles in the UK-based Guardian as well as reflecting on the high status of Wendy Doniger's work criticizing contemporary Hinduism. There's totally a more guarded tone taken with criticism of other certain other religions, which fascinates me, and I'm very satisfied with the kaleidoscope of responses I got here. I am just trying to better understand the biases, not make some sort of grand point.

What really got me thinking was the gender thread. Current feminism is very, very careful in terms of what it says about Islam but seems vocal enough about Hinduism. That was really at the crux of my thought process here.

The populist "Islamophobia" of Murdoch, Tump, Le Pen, etc. isn't a good parallel here since it doesn't have the authority of institutional/social-scientific knowledge. Much closer would be the moribund neocon propaganda about turning Iraq into a Western-style democracy...

I definitely don't think religious or secular beliefs should be free from criticism, by any means!

[Jerky]

[quote="[url=http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=580978#p580978](I think we also need a new term for the relatively innocuous "politically correct.")[/quote]

How about "Crybully Approved"?

J