Democracy Is Direct

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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:36 pm

American Dream » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:42 pm wrote:I would support very much a collectively agreed standard for thread posting, applied universally, so that we all know where we stand.

It would be great to get Jeff Wells in agreement with the new standard also.


I would greatly appreciate this and think it would make a lasting positive difference to the board.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby American Dream » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:08 pm

This should be a clearly demarcated standard which all participants in the board will comply with- and face a clear and consistent standard of response if they do not.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby jakell » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:17 am

A later, one might say almost inevitable, stage in OCD type behaviours is a fascination with rules, guidelines and authority.

I say 'inevitable' because, unless an OCD behaviour is very well designed (ie self-limiting), it's intensity will eventually rub up against someone, or some group, and as this keeps happening, that 'fascination' develops. Because the repeated behaviour is internally considered to be paramount, this fascination should not to be mistaken for good faith, but of a way of successfully flouting restrictions (gaming). The behaviour must continue.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:39 am

Luther Blissett » 10 Feb 2016 07:45 wrote:I would be fine with this being moved to the Data Dump, since I read that fairly regularly too (just rarely contribute).


I wouldn't.

I like them here.

If you don't like ADs threads don't bloody well read them.

How hard is that?
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:46 am

Searcher08 » 16 Dec 2015 04:47 wrote:
kool maudit » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:20 pm wrote:How is this a discussion thread? How is this a conversation?


It clearly isn't.

If I created 20 threads about my take on AI and copy-pastaed and cross-posted the heck between then as a means of 'gaming' them onto the front page with minimum effort, what would you think of that?


Dunno about other people, I'd assume that was your way of making statements and drawing people's attention to how you felt about stuff.

Not everyone talks or types.

And who cares about whats on the front page anyway? Its not like there is a massive thread turnover here.

Scroll wheels and mouse buttons aren't that hard to use.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:55 am

Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:46 pm wrote:
Searcher08 » 16 Dec 2015 04:47 wrote:
kool maudit » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:20 pm wrote:How is this a discussion thread? How is this a conversation?


It clearly isn't.

If I created 20 threads about my take on AI and copy-pastaed and cross-posted the heck between then as a means of 'gaming' them onto the front page with minimum effort, what would you think of that?


Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:46 pm wrote:Dunno about other people, I'd assume that was your way of making statements and drawing people's attention to how you felt about stuff.

What does that have to do with a public General Discussion forum, a Commons for conversation?
That's the whole frikken point. That it isnt a frikken private Tumblr site.

Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:46 pm wrote:Not everyone talks or types.

Not everyone sings or dances or yodels either. Some listen. To conversations. Some read - in the Data Dump.
If all they want to do iis CTRL-C CTRL-V, have at it. In the Data Dump.
If someone came into your local bar and started putting unsorted books and clippings and photos and gluing them on every available seat and turning the room into a library on their topic of interest... the chances of you NOT objecting to that would be non existent.
Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:46 pm wrote:And who cares about whats on the front page anyway? Its not like there is a massive thread turnover here.

Most people here DO (I'm amazed that you think otherwise) and part of the reason that there is not a bigger thread turn over is due to that.
Joe Hillshoist » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:46 pm wrote:Scroll wheels and mouse buttons aren't that hard to use.

Then you would have no problem going over to the Data Dump and reading all those CopyPasta threads if you feel like that.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:30 am

Most threads here are are pasta, there is fuck all actual intelligent conversation anymore and it seems the most energy anyone puts into anything anymore is hanging shit on a guy who has started 13 threads out of 100 on the first 2 pages.

On another thread someone accused AD of not making conversation and dismissed his actual attempts at conversation as a distraction.

Presumably from the accusation he never comments himself. Good tactic that ... saying someone never uses their own words then when they do saying its a distraction or invalid.

Mate its a fucken joke. The only reason people are saying what they say is cos you don't want to think about the things he posts. HMW got more slack than that and he basically made up bullshit, refused to criticise his own ideas and spammed or disrupted threads every chance he got. 7 threads on the front page, at least some of which involve discussions and you want to banish the guy to the data dump unless he conforms to your idea of how someone should post?
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:46 am

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:30 pm wrote:Most threads here are are pasta, there is fuck all actual intelligent conversation anymore and it seems the most energy anyone puts into anything anymore is hanging shit on a guy who has started 13 threads out of 100 on the first 2 pages.

On another thread someone accused AD of not making conversation and dismissed his actual attempts at conversation as a distraction.

Presumably from the accusation he never comments himself. Good tactic that ... saying someone never uses their own words then when they do saying its a distraction or invalid.

Mate its a fucken joke. The only reason people are saying what they say is cos you don't want to think about the things he posts. HMW got more slack than that and he basically made up bullshit, refused to criticise his own ideas and spammed or disrupted threads every chance he got. 7 threads on the front page, at least some of which involve discussions and you want to banish the guy to the data dump unless he conforms to your idea of how someone should post?


Yeah, I know, funny old forum right?

I've got pretty good at accepting an environment for what it is though, and it's been noticeable that the more tenacious critics have been longstanding members who feel an attachment to the place. I'm not really one of these, in spite of various attractions, something keeps telling me to not get my feet under the table.

Putting any speculation aside, it is apparent that RI is not really attracting many (any?) new members, whilst at the same time the old guard are falling away.
One non-controversial reason for this may be that forums in general are becoming increasingly populated by ageing folk mumbling into their beer about the good ol' days (and they were good), it's the way things are going, we'd often joke about this demographic on my previous forum, but even that was pretty lively place. Other folks may have more locally relevant notions.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby 82_28 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:12 am

I like to think that I play a large part in keeping the lights on around here. I would so hate to see this basically dated (design wise -- not Drew's fault) site go down. All of the contributions in any manner of ways. I only come here for everyone else, not at all to spread an agenda. I like to bounce ideas off people not because I believe them but I always considered RI very open. I owe everyone a debt of gratitude while not all the time directly for helping me out of depression in 2007. We have covered a lot of ground here. I don't know what people's hang ups are and it's none of my business if I did. We all came freely and all met one another. We're very small. This ain't no reddit.

I don't know how to save it. Does anyone have an estimate on word count over the years? It must not be lost.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby backtoiam » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:23 am

I don't know how to save it.


Get rid of the "shamers" and haters of free speech. Its a discussion forum for petes sake.
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never return to it's original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:30 am

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:30 am wrote:Most threads here are are pasta, there is fuck all actual intelligent conversation anymore and it seems the most energy anyone puts into anything anymore is hanging shit on a guy who has started 13 threads out of 100 on the first 2 pages.

On another thread someone accused AD of not making conversation and dismissed his actual attempts at conversation as a distraction.

Presumably from the accusation he never comments himself. Good tactic that ... saying someone never uses their own words then when they do saying its a distraction or invalid.

Mate its a fucken joke. The only reason people are saying what they say is cos you don't want to think about the things he posts. HMW got more slack than that and he basically made up bullshit, refused to criticise his own ideas and spammed or disrupted threads every chance he got. 7 threads on the front page, at least some of which involve discussions and you want to banish the guy to the data dump unless he conforms to your idea of how someone should post?


"The only reason people are saying what they say is cos you don't want to think about the things he posts."

Uh, No.

How can one not think about what AD posts when it's so pervasive, spread across myriad OPs in tandem? Of course, I can only speak for myself.
OPs that may begin with a certain theme invariably become yet another miasma of antifa-related copypasta, complete with the obligatory photos of Angry or Buff White Men in Militant Garb. It quickly becomes FARCICAL.

Often, when a forum member queries AD or attempts an exchange, AD simply responds with more "copy pasta" -- though that has improved of late, apparently, which is an encouraging sign.
I object to the REPEATED casting of aspersions, as if there's a brooding/burgeoning pro-nazi contingent attempting to infiltrate this board. NOTHING can be farther from the truth. It comes off as paranoid at best, and makes me wonder if it's simply a pathology or part of an effort to create friction in this board.

But you know what? WHO THE F AM I TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT? Seriously. Should AD be starting many of these OPs in Data Dump instead of General Discussion? That seems to be the prevailing thought. But he doesn't. He's a MAVERICK, that AD.

Do what thou wilt.

That is all. I shan't broach this topic again.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby backtoiam » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:34 am

^^^^what the savant said....yep
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never return to it's original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:35 am

82_28 » 12 Feb 2016 23:12 wrote:I like to think that I play a large part in keeping the lights on around here. I would so hate to see this basically dated (design wise -- not Drew's fault) site go down. All of the contributions in any manner of ways. I only come here for everyone else, not at all to spread an agenda. I like to bounce ideas off people not because I believe them but I always considered RI very open. I owe everyone a debt of gratitude while not all the time directly for helping me out of depression in 2007. We have covered a lot of ground here. I don't know what people's hang ups are and it's none of my business if I did. We all came freely and all met one another. We're very small. This ain't no reddit.

I don't know how to save it. Does anyone have an estimate on word count over the years? It must not be lost.


Make sure everything is saved to disk somewhere, then maybe stick a fork in it? It used to be a much more supportive place. As well as a lot more robust and firey.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:50 am

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:35 am wrote:Make sure everything is saved to disk somewhere, then maybe stick a fork in it? It used to be a much more supportive place. As well as a lot more robust and firey.


1) I've never bought the notion that we're in some sort of decline, but I'm happy to allow it because it matters so little.

2) If we are in decline, funny how eight years of progressive, post-racial Hope and Change is what did us in, rather than eight years of comic-book Bad Guys in office.

3) It's probably not any external cause, though: it's probably because we're not as exciting and diverse as better forums like Democratic Underground.

4) The unfortunate truth is that any online community will be driven by the interests and attitudes of the members who have the most free time on their hands. That's not a recipe for meritocracy.
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Re: Democracy Is Direct

Postby backtoiam » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:55 am

I didn't know this was a forum to skate around other peoples genitals in a manner that I don't break their delicate senses of who they think they are. There are forums for that? Right? At least I think so, I have not looked....oh yeah and their skin color, oh yeah and their label they demand to be called by...tedious as hell....there are forums for that shit right? And I don't care what people talk about, but don't conflate me into it ok? I get tired of defending myself against that shit. If I don't say it, then I didn't mean it that way.
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