What is #Pizzagate?

[Joe Hillshoist]

A reader sent me this link, which seems interesting from a couple of different angles; it's from a personal blog & I haven't verified the info yet:

So how far back can we trace the embedded codes and clandestine language fingerprints of this network? Let’s drop down and pick a starting place with the name Herman Cain. Once upon a time (circa 1984) a flaming black Republican pedophile named Larry King ripped off $40 million from the Franklin Federal Credit Union while simultaneously being involved in ferrying underage boys and girls, with help from pals like Craig Spence on Rock Creek Park’s Embassy Row, all around the country and even straight into the White House for the after-hours enjoyment of other pals like George H.W. Bush, then VP and soon to be President. King’s other really good best friend, Herman Cain (a candidate for the Republican 2012 Presidential nomination btw) just so happened, at this exact same time, to buy out, from Pilsbury, for $40 million, the chain of Godfather’s – wait for it -- pizza restaurants. More code.

Are we sensing a trend yet? Right now, we may lack the hard data to support any theory, but the circumstantial evidence is massive, hugely incriminating and OVERWHELMING. In the extreme. And entirely sufficient for any law enforcement agency or investigative panel to issue subpoenas and search warrants on multiple persons and locations to gather that data and forensic evidence.

A commenter on Jeff Wells’ brilliant Rigorous Intuition site had this to say, in 2005 mind you: “You are on to it, Jeff. On two occasions when the RA (ritual abuse) perps have abducted my friend, I’ve had the joy of reading the text messages that they send me from her phone. Beyond the gloating and the grisly details, they constantly make references to being ‘Gods.’ One memorable text message read: ‘We are too strong. We are like Gods. You can never stop us.’ These men are drunk with the fact of their impunity. It is the rigour of democracy itself that forms the landscape for the crime, and the perpetrators gorge on their impunity before the law.”

Please tell me what exactly has changed with the advent of almost 12 long years now? Pizzagate merely underscores the darkness and dire tones of the situation we’ve found ourselves surrounded by for a long, long time.

Peter Levenda on facebook Dec.7: “If you truly believe in any of this despite all evidence to the contrary,” (uh, what “evidence” would that be Mr. Summa Cum Laude of the intelligentsia set, that “evidence” bloviated into existence by the hot-air defensive ramblings of you, Colbert, and Jake Tapper?) He then suggests (get this) if all of us investigating Pizzagate aren’t just posturing and if we truly care about the children, then we all should send a donation to UNICEF. Freaking spare me, OK?

[b]That would be the UNICEF that in 2013 pushed for the widespread sexualization of children, when they made a broad interpretation of 2 UN Human Rights treaties to provide “confidential sexual and reproductive health information and services” to children starting at age 10.

That would be the UNICEF that was “deeply shocked” in 1987 when their Belgian director was arrested June 18th of that year for participating in an international pedophile ring which used UNICEF facilities to provide children to wealthy pedophiles. The director, Josef Verbeeck, was just 1 of 12 individuals arrested in connection with the child pornography/procurement ring.[/b]
“According to Belgian police, the ring spans at least 16 countries, where investigations are now beginning. As shocking as this news may be on purely moral grounds, what makes the case explosive is the fact that UNICEF’s pedophile activities appear intimately intertwined with intelligence operations.” (from Executive Intelligence Review, Vol.14, No.27, Jul.3, 1987.)

http://mcmmadnessnews.blogspot.ca/2016/ ... agate.html

First up why does it matter what colour Larry king is? They don't refer to GHWB as white republican VP Huge Beserk Rebel Warthog. So your source is a racist shithead.

But more to the point - re the second bolded bit in italics.

Only religious arseholes with an agenda to control other peoples sexuality resist sexual edumacation for 10 year olds. One aspect of sexual education is that kids are taught they have the right to say no. They are taught how reproduction happens and how to avoid becoming pregnant.

Kids under 10 play sexual games. Kiss chasey and flashing your genitalia at other kids when no one else was around is pretty standard. I don't see how teaching 10 year old children facts about sex, reproduction and their rights has anything to do with sexualising children. That a Belgian establishment arsehole became a convicted rock spider is hardly surprising. That they were busted to discredit sexual education, which lowers the risk of sexual abuse and gives children opportunities to speak out against abuse wouldn't surprise me either.

[Elvis]

Since Guruilla opened this thread in response to a statement of mine (quoted in the OP), I should follow up further, and this post of the Voat Summary is a good opportunity. I wrote that some of the 'pizzagate' evidence was, to my satisfaction, "debunked" but I'm afraid that some posters have inflated that to mean "Pizza gate is debunked! Nothing to see here!"—things I never said. I think 'pizzagate' got started on some flimsy evidence (if you can all it that) by people much more interested in smearing Podesta and Clinton than in saving any children; their motivation is pretty obvious. Tapitsbo has suggested we've moved beyond the very iffy email 'codewords' etc. that kicked off the whole campaign, to better intelligence, and that may be but nothing so far has convinced me.

Barracuda said it best:

The pizzagate proponents here pretty much universally accept that the pedo-code is among the weakest plot device in the entire narrative. So right here, we can see that the source of the theory begins with the weakest evidence. Not a good sign.

What is pizzagate? I liked Wombat's answer:

PIZZAGATE = "PODESTA EMAILS PROVE THAT HILLARY CLINTON RAPES AND MURDERS CHILDREN." That's what Pizzagate is.

And that's what I'd hope the RI discussion would not be. It's really unfortunate that people are getting upset and angry or even suspicious over different interpretations of the evidence.

Below, I'll comment on the bolded parts (thanks for that, Guruilla):

Here it is in full, without links, which can be found at the Voat post here: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1497611:

I'll bold the leads that I think are solid, were fairly followed, and/or merit further investigation.

I have already seen enough verified leads to consider this subject worth exploring & discussing further

I'm fine with that, in case anyone thinks I'm advocating the suppression of talk about 'pizzagate' (I'm not). Okay.

they involve known pedophile codewordsPNG like cheese pizza.The suspected use of "pizza" as a codeword led us to investigate a pizza restaurant mentioned in one of Podesta's emails, namely Comet Pizza and Ping Pong

So even though there were probably no code words after all, it doesn't matter, because it resulted in coincidentally stumbling upon what they were looking for anyway. That's possible. But as for the email codewords themselves, I've done my homework with Podesta's emails, posted about it, and don't have anything to add for now.

n his "jimmycomet" Instagram account, Alefantis posted a picture of a baby, calling her sexually promiscuousPNG. He also posted another baby picture and made a clear pedophile reference. The brother of Jeffrey B. Smith ("werkinonmahnightcheese"), who commented on several of the suspect Instagram photos, referred to a friend as "my favorite pedo"JPG.

I think "gay male culture," in a cynical place like Washington D.C., needs to be taken into account. I could say a lot more about that but suffice to say the "chickenlover" remark is akin to a straight person admiring a child, saying, "you're gonna break a lot of hearts when you grow up" etc. I can agree the serial commenter "werkinonmahnightcheese" is kind of a sicko or maybe just hip and "edgy." None of the comments really persuade me that Alefantis or CPP is host to what we're looking for, a high level pedophile group.

Alefantis posted a photo of a child taped to a ping pong tablePNG, and a photo of a walk-in cooler, to which he commented "#murder" and to which Jeffrey B. Smith commented "#killroom."

I've already commented on taped kid and the walk-in, I don't think they amount to much if anything.

In their washroom, Comet had a painting of a man playing ping pong, to which graffiti had been added to show him ejaculating on the table and wearing a Satanic upside-down crossPNG.

I don't know what graffiti ejaculating on the table has to do with pedophilia, but the upside down cross, in my mind, is just more random graffiti.

Majestic Ape joked about pedophile Jared Fogle and said "we all have our preferences, hee hee hee". YouTube, bringing laughter from the audience. In another video, Majestic Ape talks about killing a babyYouTube. Majestic Ape also referenced pedophilia in a caption on a music videoPNG. Heavy Breathing's website features art involving both children and sex.

Majestic Ape is weird but he talks like a gay dude with issues about women and "breeders." I don't know enough about them or the band to form any other opinion. And band posters like that are always "edgy," and "satanic" themes are a favorite or a lot of metal music. I'll agree that the club videos are very dark-humored and creepy but that's very little evidence to accuse Alefantis of running a pedo ring from his pizza joint.

An employee of Comet posted many images portraying pizza in a sexual way., further fueling our suspicion they are using "pizza" as it is commonly used by pedophiles: a symbol and codeword for sex with minors.

"An employee of Comet posted many images portraying pizza in a sexual way"... oh come now. I refer back to gay male culture. In my view, no way this should "further fuel" suspicions of a pedo ring in CPP.

John Podesta is the former Chief of Staff to President Bill Clinton, and was the Chair of Hillary Clinton's presidental campaign. Tony Podesta runs The Podesta Group, a major lobbying firm. The Podestas are associates of James Alefantis, as detailed in Exhibit C.

The above is stuff everyone should know but is not evidence of a pedo ring.

They are also good friends with known and admitted pedophile, former Republican congressman Dennis Hastert. John Podesta received en email suggesting that Hastert shoud vanish to an undisclosed Japanese island after the news of Hastert's pedophilia broke.

Now here is something. Podesta's close tie to Hastert and his seeming indifference to Hastert's crimes. To me, this smells. This is one item that keeps me on the edge about Podesta. I concede that.

Tony Podesta collects art by Biljana Djurdjevic, which references or depicts extreme physical and sexual abuse of children. He also collects photos of naked teenagers

As I've said before, Tony's art choices give me pause. I'm just not prepared to accuse him of selling or having sex with children. Maybe he was abused as a child? Maybe that art gives him courage. (One of my best friends writes explicit novels about MK and sexual torture; is he a pedophile? No, he's a victim.) Thing is, none of us has any idea of exactly why Tone Podesta chooses to have those paintings.

James Alefantis himself was deemed one of the 50 most powerful people of Washington D.CPNG by GQ magazine.
He was the romantic partnerof David BrockPNG. David Brock is the Chief of Media Matters, a major instrument of the Democratic Party. Brock is also the founder of Correct the Record, a Super PAC that supported the Clinton campaign.

None of this above means anything with regard to pedo rings. Alefantis' influence could likely come from money laundering or maybe drug dealing, but really, that GQ list is sorta silly actually.

Comet also received donations of over $20k from American Bridge 21st Century PAC, a primary funder of which is billionaire Clinton-backer George Soros.

Again, not sure how this might indicate the existence of a pedo ring surrounding Alefantis and/or Podesta. The authors of the Summary just had to throw Soros in there.

Alefantis claims he has NEVER MET Hillary Clinton. Was he ordered to distance himself from Clinton after this scandal went viral?

G. Gordon Liddy never met Richard Nixon. It's hardly incredible that Alefantis would never have met Clinton. If they have met, there should be photo op selfies or something out there.

Bill Clinton is known to have flown multiple times on the "Lolita Express" of disgraced billionaire pedophile Jeffery Epstein to visit Epstein's private "pedophile island," Little St. James. Hillary Clinton also joined him on occasion. Bill Clinton even ditched the Secret Service to make these trips Interestingly, Jeffrey Epstein claimed to be a co-founder of the Clinton Foundation.

Ding Ding... the Clinton-Epstein friendship is worthy of the closest examination. With Epstein there are victims, lawsuits, prison terms. Is this where all the attention should be going? Or is Alefantis in Epstein's black book? It's online if someone wants to look. If Alefantis is in Epstein's phone book, that would be something.

A woman named Laura Silsby was caught trafficking children in Haiti, and Hillary Clinton was sent emails regarding her updates. Laura Silsby was got off the hook by a man who was later convicted of sex trafficking.

The Silsby case is most intriguing, and the Clinton hand in getting her out of trouble is notable. Again, here you've got a known crime and real potential for uncovering something more. I think the woman mostly wanted money. She named her dog "Bentley." (Is there a Silsby thread?)

For our purposes, the relevant allegation is this: The purported leaker alleged that the Clinton Foundation is a front for human trafficking, including child sex trafficking. He told us, "Dig deep and you will find it. It's sickening."

That totally anonymous source can't be relied on as a reason to accuse anyone. They might be real, they might be delusional, they might be planting disinfo. So I don't give it any credit.

Pizzagate is not an allegation of a specific, individual crime (e.g. the abuse of a specific child on a specific day and time). Rather, it is an investigation into the possibility of certain individuals being involved in certain kinds of criminal activity. Therefore, labeling Pizzagate "false/hoax/fake" is patently absurd and dishonest, especially considering the media's refusal to address the evidence directly.

I can't deny the possibility that they're all entrenched in a pedophile cult, but except for the convicted Epstein, who's apparently more into postpubescent girls, I don't see enough to name anyone involved as a pedophile or sex trafficker.

Reddit CEO Steve Huffman banned the Pizzagate research community from Reddit on bogus grounds, accusing us of engaging in a "witch hunt,"

Bot accounts denying Pizzagate have been discovered on Twitter. Twitter has also been suspending users who discuss Pizzagate, and Facebook has plans to censor what it deems "fake news."

Well, sure, doesn't Brock, e.g., specialize in bot-driven opinion-making, among other things? And this item points just as much to a hoax designed to suppress alternative news sources, as it does to a pedophile ring.

Washington Post reported that sex slavery is a big problem in D.C.

All of the "Exhibit F" is great but if the conclusion "sex slavery is a big problem in D.C." is all we're trying to prove here, our work was done before we started. As it pertains to Alefantis, the Podestas, the Clintons et al., it really doesn't.

By the way, I have the "Conspiracy of Silence" doc listed, it's a must-see. It's why I'll never dismiss out-of-hand rumors of high-level pedo networks.

A leaked government email in which pizza is obviously a code word: "Who all is in the Austin office today who is going to want pizza? We only have one slice and we need to know how thinly to slice it."

This is a bit of sloppy work by the authors (the whole Summary is a little slipshod); it wasn't a government email, it was a Startfor email. But it *is* odd (again I'm thinking, drugs?). Likely some office 'in' joke.


There's some smoke, but what I get from what I've learned, is:

Silsby should be investigated. Seriously, I'd like to know what kind of art she hangs on her walls.





(Note: I started this post a few hours ago and had a visitor, then came back to it and there are many more posts, but I'm going to post what I have, then read the new ones.)

Edited for typos

[Joe Hillshoist]

Thanks for a reasoned response Elvis.

[Sounder]

Thanks for that reasonable assessment Elvis.

[kool maudit]

thirded.

[liminalOyster]

Thank you Elvis.

One addition - Majestic Ape clearly comes out of the drag tradition where cracking about the most taboo things is a kind of critical performative statement on the queer condition. I don't see anything in there that isn't just kitsch and a blaspheming of the delicacies of the social order. See Leigh Bowery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3yVBhVrltU

I suspect that this may also begin to explain some of Alefantis's cracks and the graffiti, etc. Remember that once upon a time queer culture was a much more outlaw culture and as a result begrudgingly welcomed NAMBLA-sorts (though IME of being peripheral to gay communities, such types were rightfully ostracized and kept at a distance.) I sense that this still survives in little flashes (ie Twinks), point being that it's plausible to me that a certain sort of joking so many have found egregiously untoward ("my favorite pedophile" or "we all have our preferences") is part of a historical semiotic repertoire in the LGBT world but in no way suggests the joke-maker is themselves a child abuser.

I also think it's worth taking a moment to consider that CPP is clearly a social hub in part of the DC gay community and it's invasion by a man with an assault rifle came less than six months after the Pulse shooting.

Edit: expand second paragraph

[Elvis]

Thanks for the positive comments, and please, no one take my reply as a shout-down of other arguments. It's just as I see things, and I'm always open to other perspectives.

And thanks too, liminalOyster, for your expansion of what I was getting at regarding Majestic Ape's monologues; I've seen the phenomenon and recognize what you're talking about:

Thank you Elvis.

One addition - Majestic Ape clearly comes out of the drag tradition where cracking about the most taboo things is a kind of critical performative statement on the queer condition. I don't see anything in there that isn't just kitsch and a blaspheming of the delicacies of the social order. See Leigh Bowery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3yVBhVrltU

I suspect that this may also begin to explain some of Alefantis's cracks and the graffiti, etc. Remember that once upon a time queer culture was a much more outlaw culture and as a result begrudgingly welcomed NAMBLA-sorts (though IME of being peripheral to gay communities, such types were rightfully ostracized and kept at a distance.) I sense that this still survives in little flashes (ie Twinks), point being that it's plausible to me that a certain sort of joking so many have found egregiously untoward ("my favorite pedophile" or "we all have our preferences") is part of a historical semiotic repertoire in the LGBT world but in no way suggests the joke-maker is themselves a child abuser.

I also think it's worth taking a moment to consider that CPP is clearly a social hub in part of the DC gay community and it's invasion by a man with an assault rifle came less than six months after the Pulse shooting.

Edit: expand second paragraph

P.S. Ironic that I should leave a typo in the sentence about "slipshod" work.

[guruilla]

Ladies & gentlemen, I do believe we have reached the nub of the disagreement.

I’d like to call to the witness stand, slomo. He may not show up though, so….

I can’t “fifth” the thumbs up for Elvis’s assessment because I consider it quite weak overall (Sorry, Elvis, but I wish you’d address my own points to you rather that the Voat list, which I only copied here to satisfy LO’s complaint).

Why do I consider it weak? Primarily because it is argued within a context that I think is unnecessarily restricting and counter-productive, that of social activism and legal definitions: is there enough to make a case against individuals and bring them to justice, more or less? This may be the interest of some people posting at RI, but it’s not a consensus interest, and if you impose these particular criteria onto the discussion, what happens is that, as in Elvis’ post, you end up with a whole lot of nothing.

Isn’t it a bit naïve at this stage in the game to think we could expose the internal workings of a millennia-in-the-making culture of organized child abuse in such a way that would have legal consequences and bring about social change within that culture, by discussing some local facts and factoids at a forum?

The proof is in how the bulk of the “dismissal” here involves the defense of and the “nothing to see here” claim about a specific area of the culture, namely the LGBT area. Alefantis, Majestic Ape and these creepy pedo-advocates get a FREE PASS because they might be gay or transvestite or practice some of the paraphilias that have been culturally green-lit and are now being softly enforced, at least insofar as questioning them on psychological or moral grounds is ipso facto evidence of ignorant prejudice.

Amazing how that’s worked out isn’t it?

And yet some of us here know for a fact that the gay subculture overlaps in countless ways with sadomasochism, pedophilia, and every other squalid vice (unsanctioned paraphilia) we can imagine. It just does, and if we want to pretend it doesn’t because of our chosen value set, then we’ve just joined the ranks of useful idiots enabling the evils of the elite.

Like I said, here be the nub of the disagreement. A glimpse into pedo-culture in Washington DC (and the world) means recognizing how that culture has hidden itself inside other cultures, in order to safely move through and into our lives. One of those Trojan horse cultures is gay culture. I doubt I’d be bold enough to say that so plainly here, if we didn’t have an insider to that culture who’s been brave enough to speak out about this reality before.

Tetelestai. It is said. Let the heads roll where they may.

[barracuda]

Isn’t it a bit naïve at this stage in the game to think we could expose the internal workings of a millennia-in-the-making culture of organized child abuse in such a way that would have legal consequences and bring about social change within that culture, by discussing some local facts and factoids at a forum?

I don't know about other's opinions, but I don't ever really expect actionable legal consequences to obtain pursuant to forum discussions, and that's not my benchmark for the validity of a theory. Rather, internal and external logical consistency and proof by deduction are good enough to satisfy me, and those qualities are missing here.

And yet some of us here know for a fact that the gay subculture overlaps in countless ways with sadomasochism, pedophilia, and every other squalid vice (unsanctioned paraphilia) we can imagine.

Those same things overlap with hetero behavior, only moreso by several orders of magnitude. Christ.

[tapitsbo]

Those same things overlap with hetero behavior, only moreso by several orders of magnitude. Christ.

I'm aware of some contention about this idea.


plus, guruilla isn't saying "queer culture" is to blame for pizzagate, he's saying it provides one of many ideologically-supported blinders that can help stop attempts to make sense of it.

[barracuda]

Then air your grievances with it, please.

[tapitsbo]

uh, that would involve replaying a discussion that's already amply accessible from many different sources

where do you get "orders of magnitude" from, though?

[barracuda]

plus, guruilla isn't saying "queer culture" is to blame for pizzagate, he's saying it provides one of many ideologically-supported blinders that can help stop attempts to make sense of it.

He contends that, no doubt.

[tapitsbo]

"orders of magnitude" is a lie, lol

what liminialOyster was saying isn't even wrong

but we could add to what he said the fact that fringes of "queer culture" intersect with pedo apologism to this day. I'm not rushing to any interpretation of that fact, of course.

[brekin]

Why do I consider it weak? Primarily because it is argued within a context that I think is unnecessarily restricting and counter-productive, that of social activism and legal definitions: is there enough to make a case against individuals and bring them to justice, more or less? This may be the interest of some people posting at RI, but it’s not a consensus interest, and if you impose these particular criteria onto the discussion, what happens is that, as in Elvis’ post, you end up with a whole lot of nothing.

You are basically talking about (if I follow this correctly) judging people guilty without having to prove they are. Without even having a crime victim. I hardly think people here require no doubt be shown or left to be convinced that certain elite people are most likely guilty. (I mean look at Woody Allen, Cosby, etc. threads.)
But no reasonable doubt is probably required for most, especially when they involve real people.
So, yes if the evidence never convinces people beyond a reasonable doubt- then you do end up with a whole lot of nothing.
It may point to something, but nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
If you want to make something out of nothing, then that gets into strange thought crime/pre-crime/ambient crime areas.
It gets doubly bizarre when no crime has even been reported, or a victim has come forward.

You seem to conflate long/large scale historic trends/tendencies/occurrences into individual specific instances that blur out minutiae.
As I said earlier, it seems most RI'ers want to believe this, want it exposed, believe things like this go on, but they aren't fully convinced in this instance. Forcing conversions so people believe this- that others are guilty because they just gotta be based on social media and nebulous/ambiguous code words in emails- instead of persuading with evidence is going in the wrong direction.
The latter is using logic, the former is using Salem Witch Trial logic.