What is #Pizzagate?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

What is #Pizzagate?

Right-Wing Hysteria/Hillary-Smear-Campaign
18
24%
Psy-Op to Discredit & Distract from Actual High-Level Pedophilia
16
22%
An Orchestrated Exposé to Destabilize Power Structures
4
5%
A Glimpse into Pedo-Culture in Washington, DC
19
26%
Evidence that Comet Ping Pong is a Money-Laundering Front for Child-Porn/Trafficking Business
4
5%
Evidence that Comet Ping Pong is both a Front & a Location for Child Abuse, Ritual or Otherwise
2
3%
All of the Above
5
7%
Other (Specify)
6
8%
 
Total votes : 74

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:15 am

SonicG » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:51 am wrote:Ever since Brian Baker was dragged into this, I have been forced to look further into the current wave of "everything that ever seemed slightly subversive is tainted with 'Deep State' control." And a lot of the underlying reasoning has to do with what seems to be a rather conservative ideology regarding modernism. I recently discovered Miles Mathis and was thinking of a separate thread opposed to this kind of neo-puritanism but I am not sure I could weather the storm...


After alot of harassment, the guy who runs Don Giovanni records offered the VOAT intrepid-gentsia a clear statement on why a "pedophile symbol" had randomly appeared in one of his bands videos. In some of the responses, posters misunderstood DCs hard-won and time-honored "all ages" policy for nightclubs and other venues as a coded invitation to pedophiles. That policy is more about youth self-determination and to a degree the politicisation of minors as a class. I won't be surprised if some or another dirt is manufactured about CRASS next, pointing to pagan sensibilities in eco-feminism/anarchism as a secret satanic code. Also on an interesting side note, certain DC group houses were apparently doxxed and/or reported to authorities by Trump fans in the immediate aftermath of the December Ghost Ship fire in Oakland. Really good piece here on the value/meaning/experience of such spaces:


The Paradox of Life Affirming Death Traps
Brian Chippendale recalls what he learned from years of co-running and living in a DIY space.

In Providence, Rhode Island, artists, musicians, and scene characters live and work in old red brick mills that once churned out textiles and jewelry. I’ve spent over 20 years in these castles of the industrial age. These days most people look at these historic industrial buildings as gorgeous wood floors, warm brick walls, tall light-filled windows, and high airy ceilings; all polished up for luxury. My gang never really cared about any of that, we were there for the thickness of the walls and the isolation.
Far from the neighborhoods behind brick two feet thick, we could be anyone and do anything we wanted. Fort Thunder was my first zone, starting in 1995. By 2002 we were evicted by fire marshals and the building was razed for a shopping center. We had over 100 shows during the six years of the Fort’s lifespan, not a huge amount compared to other art spaces, but it was plenty. We didn’t pay the rent with parties; we paid the rent by cramming in roommates. Paying the rent using money the shows generated never really dawned on us since we made the shows super affordable, keeping only the change in the bottom of the donation bin. We had the Fugazi mentality: keep things cheap and do it for the people.

Our lease-free month-to-month 7,000 square foot space had a large cavernous side where the shows happened and bigger projects could be worked on, plus a music practice space, silkscreening area, kitchen, and a bike repair zone. The smaller side contained the library and living quarters where most of the six to twelve roommates built their rooms. The rooms were crafted from whatever we and the cats dragged in; found wood (mostly pallets), paper, cloth, cardboard, plastic. Anything that was cheap or free. If there is one thing that every broke warehouse dweller knows it’s that wood pallets are the cheapest wood you’ll find; available and plentiful.

My room was a large, sealed, mountain-looking thing made from drywall, plywood, and wood pallets stuffed with old clothes for insulation and sealed with wheat pasted paper to keep the drafts out. Beneath the lofted area of the room was a hallway crammed full of stuffed animals, paper, clothing, toys, and all sorts of other debris attached to every surface with a variety of hand-wired lamps weaving through it. It was truly a hungry fire’s dream shanty.

The aesthetic of these rooms came from two places; the slim economic situation shared by most everyone involved and a love of expressive architecture—an urge to make your room an extension of yourself. Making art or music your career or life’s mission is a slow build kind of journey. In order to do it seriously, you need time and space. Money is fundamental, but it has to be prioritized to a lesser degree than finding the time to experiment in your field. Not unlike scientists, artists and musicians find new ground through experimentation and experimentation tends to not pay a whole lot. But it’s a necessity. It’s no coincidence that the value of both science and the arts is endlessly questioned by a certain subset of people. They are both fields with no limits and that limitless nature is what some folks find terrifying.
Over the course of our six years in Fort Thunder, we never stopped decorating. Our space became a dumping ground for our trash-picking friends. Everything that came in the door was stapled to the walls and ceiling or organized in some way. It wasn’t just a space, it was a living organism. It came to be the only art that made sense to me. Art shows in galleries seemed frail compared to this hidden but permanent world of radical juxtapositions we were building. Music shows in formal clubs seemed like funerals for rigid space.

Our warehouse was a blank box when we walked in; devoid of domestic architecture, waiting for definition. As the place slowly filled with every forgotten thing under the sun, we would move the debris piles and craft new landscapes for each event. The house would come together cooking food and cleaning, getting ready for a night of good-natured chaos. Walls would get smashed by party goers and the next day they would be built back up from old pieces into new forms. Secret rooms were built and fortified to hide your stuff (and yourself) from visitors. Each morning you would wake to something new, something changed. A new drawing, a new print, a new scrawl on a wall, a new room, a new item from some forgotten corner of town, a new weirdo sitting in a new old chair in the kitchen eating your hard won food.
Every show in the house was advertised through a silkscreened poster made by one of the roommates, and as the years went by the prints became more cryptic and abstract—the print itself not a literal communication but a beacon pasted around town, a signal that some sort of strange event was coming. If you knew of our place you could decipher the code; you maybe didn’t know what was happening but you knew where it was happening. Some people called the kids that lived in the mills the Peter Pan Boys (we were mostly boys at that point), boys that would never grow up, clinging to some fantasy life in a fantasy land. But when the world outside is scary, boring, ugly, and hateful, what do you do? You either drown in it or you drown it out.

I think everyone involved in booking shows at this deep underground level of culture—where money isn’t really being generated for the venue or the booker—at some point starts to wonder why they are doing it. Why book performers and bring people into your private space and disrupt your day to day rituals and your productivity? An urgency to enhance the community? To bring people together? A thirst for some revelation found only in communal experience? Perhaps people who do it are paying a karmic debt for some show they went to as a kid that changed their life. Prior to Fort Thunder, we had been to a couple loft parties in downtown Providence buildings, run by older Rhode Island School of Design kids. Bands played, people danced, and our suburban minds were blown.

A key component in these house shows or mill shows is the trust the host puts in the audience by opening the door to their home. When you enter a space that is lived in you feel a bond with the place and the person. That quickly imbues the show with a sense of higher meaning—that by entering a person’s house you have joined their family. I’ve been to boring shows in intensely loved spaces and still been wholly satisfied. Homes have a warmth that many venues do not, a vibe not of commercialism but of communal sharing. Performers in casual spaces tend to intermix with the audience and melt down the artificial wall between the artist and the viewer. These places can give a platform for the most out there of performers, performers whose expression cannot be commodified in its current state.

It’s communities like these that grow the roots that allow a city to form its own artistic identity. There is the feeling of freedom, the feeling that Big Brother’s eyes aren’t able to penetrate the walls or see those within, to judge who you are or how you are. (Not that there is a tremendous amount to judge.) Most gatherings in unmonitored spaces are generally just a lot of people dancing. Dancing and laughing. Building friendships and building character.

Fort Thunder was an unmonitored space, but it was not devoid of safety. We had a working sprinkler system. You’ll be hard pressed to find a warehouse in Providence that does not. We had fire extinguishers stashed throughout. We had a fire escape and a huge push bar front door that opened out into a wide staircase to the ground level, both exits accessible from the concert zone. We were on the second floor and there were multiple windows that could all be opened. It would have hurt like hell to jump, but you could have done it. We were conscious of hazards and the escapes on some basic level.

Still, Providence is different than the Fruitvale district of Oakland. Our huge front door had a broken lock for months and only a few strangers wandered in in the middle of the night. We only had one or two thefts during our run and even then it was nothing of much value. In Oakland, people grate and board up their windows out of necessity to keep the steady flow of unwanted visitors out of their space, not with the intention to trap people inside. Perhaps the inability to just open a window suggests that the dire economic issues outside of the Ghost Ship played a larger role in the fire’s narrative than the financial situation of the people inside.

Landlords play a role in these spaces as well. I don’t think our landlord at Fort Thunder was too concerned with our safety. He was kind of an asshole—he showed up to collect the rent and never showed up to do anything else. Pipes froze and burst and it was up to us to fix them. In that way, it was perfect. We felt like we owned it. The only time he got furious with us was when a local paper wrote about the space. “You kids are idiots” he said, in no way referring to the cardboard labyrinth we had built in his building. “Keep it out of the papers.” The negligence of the landlord is part of the deal, you ask them for nothing and they close their eyes to whatever you might want to do. An absentee landlord means an absentee system of rules and standards. Aside from his absence, the only other important role he played is that he kept the fire inspectors away.

It has been said that fire inspectors had not gained access to the Ghost Ship building in a long time. In the ’90s—in a notoriously corrupt Providence—the feeling about fire marshals was that if your landlord was greasing the wheels then they never looked very hard at your space. One afternoon an inspector came through with our landlord; we had been warned, doors had been locked, beds stashed away, and all of us hidden. I was 12 feet up in my three-foot-high lofted sleeping space listening as they walked underneath through the tunnel covered in flammable detritus and sketchy electrical work. The fire marshal was talking about the sprinkler system, how it was bad that we had built our lofts below the sprinkler heads without putting another sprinkler head below the loft and how the sprinklers weren’t meant to save lives just property.

Still, we somehow passed the inspection and they never returned until late 2001 when the property was slated to be developed into a grocery store. When they came this final time the space was the same as it had been on their previous visit but suddenly they were incredibly detail oriented. I was painting with ink at a desk and I got chastised for not having an eyewash station.

A few years later in 2004, in my next studio, I was evicted by fire marshals from a small room with two exits to the street on the first floor of a cement building. I couldn’t have lit that building on fire if I tried. We had three days to get out and it was 13 degrees that frozen week of January. I couldn’t fathom how the 60 people who got evicted that week would fair better homeless in the heart of New England winter than in a heated building with some violations that could have been worked toward bettering. That particular landlord had a bad relationship with the city. The thought that always popped up when I was lectured by fire marshals about the hazardous nature of my space was that these spaces felt so much safer than all the cramped old apartments and houses I had lived in over the years—dangerous old attic or basement apartments with ancient knob and tube electricity and skinny dark staircases.

Once you get the idea in your head that fire inspectors are just another political tool it’s hard to trust their motives. But I do recall one inspector saying to me during an inspection, “You may think this is all cool but we’re the ones who have to pull the bodies out after a fire.”

I didn’t take him seriously, but those are powerful words here today.

There’s no fairness to a tragedy, or that one night in Oakland something caught fire and just kept burning. There are hundreds of not-up-to-code spaces with artists all across the world that operate day to day with some danger but thrive and survive. The fourth deadliest fire in U.S. history happened here in Rhode Island, at the Station nightclub in 2003. The band Great White lit off fireworks and the sound dampening foam caught fire. 100 people died. 230 people were injured. This was an insane and devastating tragedy in a legitimate and inspected club.

After that fire, I memorized the exits in every space we played for years to come, but the urgency fades with time. Everyone should strive toward safety, but there is always a risk. I could have been wiser in each of the three mills I have occupied over the last 20 years. I’ve been lucky. We were lucky. Does a fire like the Ghost Ship mark the end of the chaos aesthetic? Will handcrafted wooden doors to your cobbled together room be traded in for code-compliant push doors on a drywall box? Will overcrowded and overheated parties step aside for clicker counters at the door and a firm “sorry the room is full” from the deeply responsible 20 year-old guarding the entrance? Honestly, I doubt it.

To this day, when I walk into my studio a weight lifts off me. I feel liberated and productive. Every artist is a small factory of culture. America exports massive amounts of entertainment and culture. If art and music scenes can’t be viewed as simply spiritual boons to society, they should be viewed as a completely valid and valuable asset in an economic sense. By the end of the ’90s, during Fort Thunder’s heyday, there were five different spaces for artists in our building and there were one or two additional art spaces in the building behind us. There was a big space across the side street full of young creative people and there was a building facing us packed with more artists and musicians.

RISD and Brown students were staying in Providence instead of moving to NYC after leaving school because the town was happening. It felt like a revolution. By 2003 it was all cleared out and the area devolved into a Staples that went out of business, a Stop-and-Shop grocery store that went out of business, a few small shops like Radio Shack, and several parking lots. So much for revolution. So much for the seed of a movement that could have grown and put Providence on the map as an arts mecca.

I don’t know if now is a good time to talk about artist enclaves in industrial buildings. A better time would have been on December 1st. Or a year ago. Ten years ago. There is never a shortage of tragedy and there is never a shortage of the politicization of tragedy. I’ll attempt to depoliticize it right here. Whether you perished in the Gatlinburg fire in the red state of Tennessee or The Ghost Ship in the blue state of California, you are gone all the same. People are suffering. You can lay blame but don’t desecrate the dead. Folks on polar opposite sides of the cultural spectrum can’t even fathom how the other side would live where or as they do.
Your own loving parents may have no clue as to why you crawl into a grimy warehouse to lay down on a mattress dragged in from the street to stare up at the roof of your indoor cabin built from scavenged wood, but you do it to be free. I think now in this particular moment in history the idea that there is “cultural common ground” among people can be laid to rest.

This Oakland news is fresh, this tragedy is raw. It’s unbelievable. Some people lost a good portion of their friend network in one hellish night, and those friends that died lost everything. Entire futures snuffed out in an instant. I’m so sorry this happened. I’m so grateful that so many people I know (and I) have been incredibly lucky. Many many people have passed through the mills that these artist communities have inhabited, and many many people have been enriched by the time they spent there.

– By Brian Chippendale

"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
User avatar
liminalOyster
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:18 am

Jerky » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:33 am wrote:Dude, that's exactly what I've been saying about this PizzaGate bullshit from JUMP STREET! It's nothing but one tentacle of the alt-right warmed over rehash of the Nazi war on "decadent Modernism" and "degenerate art". That's a skeleton key to much of this PizzaGate psyop Mystery School.

Jerky


I have to agree.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:39 pm

^^^ Seconded.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby SonicG » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:33 pm

Cheers all...Thanks for that article LimOy! I saw Sonic Youth and Naked Raygun in Providence some 30 years ago and seem to remember it being in an old brick industrial building...
"a poiminint tidal wave in a notion of dynamite"
User avatar
SonicG
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:29 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby simian1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:18 pm

In an era when human trafficking is widely acknowledged as the 2nd most profitable criminal enterprise, child porn is rife on the net, and there have many notable cases of institutions and charities involved in pedophile rings, it's disgusting that you can just laugh this off. It really makes me wonder when people spend so much energy denying pizzagate, when that energy could be spent bringing attention to these issues, even if you are dead convinced the specifics of this one case are a hoax.

What about the catholic international pedophile ring, is that a hoax too? No, its common knowledge to the extent that you can begin a joke, "so theres a catholic priest".....and you already know what the joke is about. They have made pedophilia socially acceptable, and with the right payoff, legal as well.
User avatar
simian1
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:28 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:41 pm

pizzagate is a made up conspiracy by trump trolls and this made up shit does nothing but hurt the real victims of abuse.


IT IS A HOAX

the Catholic Church abuse is real and you comparing the two is not helpful

to let some scumbag Nazis off the hook for making up shit about a pizza place and all the people the rumor hurt is just not right

oh and one of the guys pushing this crap had to resign from office Trump's national security advisor, Michael Flynn...because he was working for a foreign government and not registering as such ..you know that "LOCK HER UP" Flynn and his son


look at this thread ...THIS IS REAL and got ZERO play here where as this fucking fake story thread has 40 pages ....I guess it's a good thing that at least this crap has been debunked even if it did take 40 pages to do it

Betrayal of trust 368 youth gymnasts 20 years 115 Adults
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40241&p=623858&hilit=gymnast#p623858
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby Project Willow » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:19 pm

simian1 » 13 Mar 2017 14:18 wrote:In an era when human trafficking is widely acknowledged as the 2nd most profitable criminal enterprise, child porn is rife on the net, and there have many notable cases of institutions and charities involved in pedophile rings, it's disgusting that you can just laugh this off. It really makes me wonder when people spend so much energy denying pizzagate, when that energy could be spent bringing attention to these issues, even if you are dead convinced the specifics of this one case are a hoax.


Last week, a thread with my name on it appeared in the Voat Pizzagate forum. The OP had obviously spent a bit of time reading through my websites. Citing my drawings of lab torture sessions, he posited that the swirl shape of the FBI designated pedo-symbol logos was actually meant as a reference to MKUltra.

This was an interesting idea, and the OP was very kind to me in his messaging, but on another level, it's rather silly. Throngs of internet warriors are wasting a whole lot of time chasing shadowy extrapolations and half thoughts when, if they were seriously interested in stopping elite trafficking, they'd be engaged on the ground with known cases. The vast majority have donned child savior hats as a form of politically motivated entertainment.

The only positive outcome I do see is in the creation of a hazy legend of elite pedophilia, that simply in its refusal to go away, eventually helps contend denial among the general public.


edit: grammar
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby Harvey » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:25 pm

Jack, SLAD and a few others:

Orwell wrote 1984 to convey his nightmare vision of soviet reality. Instead, due to his particular obsessions while he wrote about that he was actually describing a house that free market capitalism actually built, not without realising. Only an imbecile would construe that comment as an endorsement of the soviet system. But there appear to be plenty of them in the making. Remember, you're never too old.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby brekin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:17 pm

simian1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:18 pm wrote:In an era when human trafficking is widely acknowledged as the 2nd most profitable criminal enterprise, child porn is rife on the net, and there have many notable cases of institutions and charities involved in pedophile rings, it's disgusting that you can just laugh this off. It really makes me wonder when people spend so much energy denying pizzagate, when that energy could be spent bringing attention to these issues, even if you are dead convinced the specifics of this one case are a hoax.

What about the catholic international pedophile ring, is that a hoax too? No, its common knowledge to the extent that you can begin a joke, "so theres a catholic priest".....and you already know what the joke is about. They have made pedophilia socially acceptable, and with the right payoff, legal as well.


Who pray tell on this board doesn't take human trafficking and the rest seriously? You do know this board has existed before PG, right? And there are threads pertaining to all of that going back years? And just how does "not laughing Pizzagate off" brings more attention to the above? (And one could argue how does complaining about those you portray as laughing pizzagate off bring more attention to those issues either?)
More like Pizzagate has drained off decades of energy spent bringing the above to light and future similar endeavors.
Case in point: comparing the catholic international pedophile ring with the pizza parlour international pedophile ring.
PG is a permanent false limited hangout. All a perp org has to do now is come back at any allegations with "Your describing some nutty conspiracy like PizzaGate!"

Image
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
User avatar
brekin
 
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby Elvis » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:47 pm

simian1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 pm wrote:In an era when human trafficking is widely acknowledged as the 2nd most profitable criminal enterprise, child porn is rife on the net, and there have many notable cases of institutions and charities involved in pedophile rings, it's disgusting that you can just laugh this off.


If we agree that "Pizzagate" is concerned with a relative handful of specific people—the Podesta brothers, some of John Podesta's staff, Alefantis, and his employees who were dragged into it, etc.—then what is for you an acceptable level of suspicion?

- are you prepared to say unequivocally, based on the evidence, that John Podesta (et al.) is a child rapist/trafficker?
- based on the evidence, do you think it's okay to harrass and threaten Podesta, or Alefantis or his employees who received death threats?
- based on the evidence, do you think it's okay to harrass and threaten an artist who was hired to paint a mural at CPP?

I know that John Podesta masquerades as a progressive while making millions working on behalf of big banks, military contractors and conservative pro-big-business organizations. That's public information.

But based on the public information, I'm just not prepared to say I know that John Podesta is a child trafficker. Is that so illogical or disgusting?

I can say with certainty that being falsely accused of bad things is not fun at all, and it usually starts when someone with a grudge or ax to grind—like the people who started Pizzagate—gets others to believe and repeat the lies.

What about the catholic international pedophile ring, is that a hoax too? No, its common knowledge to the extent that you can begin a joke, "so theres a catholic priest".....and you already know what the joke is about. They have made pedophilia socially acceptable, and with the right payoff, legal as well.


That's an unfair comparison/false equivalency, I hope you will agree; the Catholic pedophile problem is a completely different thing, and the contrast is useful: with the Catholic priests who molest kids you've got hundreds of victims with names, actual rapists with names, records, convictions, testimonies, confessions and so on. With Pizzagate, there's a lot of inference mostly drawn from Internet images and comments that are highly subject to interpretation (and often mundane explanation).

So far, I see more child-molester 'smoke' coming from Trump (especially considering Epstein/Douchewitz et al.) than I do from Podesta. Both need to be watched, they all need to be monitored. In the end, I think "Pizzagate" has actually brought little to light, and wittingly or not, helped to obscure the corruption revealed in the leaked/hacked (take your pick) emails.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7561
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby OP ED » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:37 am

Project Willow » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:19 pm wrote:
simian1 » 13 Mar 2017 14:18 wrote:In an era when human trafficking is widely acknowledged as the 2nd most profitable criminal enterprise, child porn is rife on the net, and there have many notable cases of institutions and charities involved in pedophile rings, it's disgusting that you can just laugh this off. It really makes me wonder when people spend so much energy denying pizzagate, when that energy could be spent bringing attention to these issues, even if you are dead convinced the specifics of this one case are a hoax.


Last week, a thread with my name on it appeared in the Voat Pizzagate forum. The OP had obviously spent a bit of time reading through my websites. Citing my drawings of lab torture sessions, he posited that the swirl shape of the FBI designated pedo-symbol logos was actually meant as a reference to MKUltra.

This was an interesting idea, and the OP was very kind to me in his messaging, but on another level, it's rather silly. Throngs of internet warriors are wasting a whole lot of time chasing shadowy extrapolations and half thoughts when, if they were seriously interested in stopping elite trafficking, they'd be engaged on the ground with known cases. The vast majority have donned child savior hats as a form of politically motivated entertainment.

The only positive outcome I do see is in the creation of a hazy legend of elite pedophilia, that simply in its refusal to go away, eventually helps contend denial among the general public.


edit: grammar


My own brain isn't hardwired to think in terms of positive and negative outcomes, so I don't think I am particularly qualified to comment on this aspect. I believe that our only slight hope of survival as a species/ecocomplex will be through acceleration of the breakdown of existing systems. Therefore anything that makes these conversations possible, which PG has/does is best for us in the longer view.

Interesting to me is how absurdly volatile the Clinton supporters are with regards to this subject. As if the Clintons aren't provably guilty of every other crime that makes a profit and that this should therefore be unsurprising.

This insanity makes even otherwise relatively rational people like, say SLAD for instance, feel the need to capitalize "HOAX" like she suddenly has infinite faith in msm sources. Some of this is probably Trump's fault. He brings out the worst in everyone.

(It would have to be investigated before it could be accurately labelled as a HOAX, btw, by someone who isn't actually a suspect)

(Hey SLAD whatever happened to all the children the CF was trafficking? Where did they go? Where is the list that shows they all got home safe? Also why are all these questions rhetorical?)

Podestas are disgusting. Even if you want to make the, IMO silly, argument that any critique of the one's love of child abuse art is equivalent to Nazism, the other one of them is still suspect due to his lifelong service for liars and killers and his pushing of the nuts and bolts interpreting of UFOs, which many of us have longer considered mostly likely to be cover-up maintenance for ongoing Mk programs.

So, smoke usually means fire, even if not where you think.

Alefantis only needs to explain his sexualized children and creepy shit on his social media accounts and those of his friends. All of which is very public information now, so easy to Google if you haven't been looking.

(That would be enough to get a poorer/unconnected person investigated)

For me, I see this as part of the JSOC coup d'etat, a warning shot to keep the neoliberal Establishment out of the game with a threat that creates maximum deniability for continuing JSOC application but signalling the CF connected old perps that the NSA knows how.young they like their slaves.

(The "HOAX" was too well organized and orchestrated to be entirely the work of amateur trolls)

(Which means it wasn't directed at you, note the HRC rollover despite that the vote counts still don't actually add up)

Anyone still pushing pure HOAX is delusional about whether they even counted their votes.

...

Elvis » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:47 pm wrote:
simian1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 pm wrote:In an era when human trafficking is widely acknowledged as the 2nd most profitable criminal enterprise, child porn is rife on the net, and there have many notable cases of institutions and charities involved in pedophile rings, it's disgusting that you can just laugh this off.


If we agree that "Pizzagate" is concerned with a relative handful of specific people—the Podesta brothers, some of John Podesta's staff, Alefantis, and his employees who were dragged into it, etc.—then what is for you an acceptable level of suspicion?

- are you prepared to say unequivocally, based on the evidence, that John Podesta (et al.) is a child rapist/trafficker?
- based on the evidence, do you think it's okay to harrass and threaten Podesta, or Alefantis or his employees who received death threats?
- based on the evidence, do you think it's okay to harrass and threaten an artist who was hired to paint a mural at CPP?

I know that John Podesta masquerades as a progressive while making millions working on behalf of big banks, military contractors and conservative pro-big-business organizations. That's public information.

But based on the public information, I'm just not prepared to say I know that John Podesta is a child trafficker. Is that so illogical or disgusting?

I can say with certainty that being falsely accused of bad things is not fun at all, and it usually starts when someone with a grudge or ax to grind—like the people who started Pizzagate—gets others to believe and repeat the lies.

What about the catholic international pedophile ring, is that a hoax too? No, its common knowledge to the extent that you can begin a joke, "so theres a catholic priest".....and you already know what the joke is about. They have made pedophilia socially acceptable, and with the right payoff, legal as well.


That's an unfair comparison/false equivalency, I hope you will agree; the Catholic pedophile problem is a completely different thing, and the contrast is useful: with the Catholic priests who molest kids you've got hundreds of victims with names, actual rapists with names, records, convictions, testimonies, confessions and so on. With Pizzagate, there's a lot of inference mostly drawn from Internet images and comments that are highly subject to interpretation (and often mundane explanation).

So far, I see more child-molester 'smoke' coming from Trump (especially considering Epstein/Douchewitz et al.) than I do from Podesta. Both need to be watched, they all need to be monitored. In the end, I think "Pizzagate" has actually brought little to light, and wittingly or not, helped to obscure the corruption revealed in the leaked/hacked (take your pick) emails.


-yes. The CF are child traffickers, a Podesta was neck deep at the time. We're talking about a guy who helped cover up deaths from illegal medical testing, right? So, no, I can't prove anything but I would rather be surprised if he isn't involved in the most profitable of organized crimes.

-Yes. Because at the least they're servants of liars and killers. At best. Even Alefantis. His employees are collateral damage. Perhaps unfortunately. His business shouldn't exist so the end result is the same. I would probably stop short of harassing his workforce but he is himself very much fair game.

-No, not really. Individual contractors are as likely to be innocent as otherwise especially considering the pretense to progressive policy that neoliberal types espouse.

However any of them that outright defend HRC are fair game if for no other reason than stupidity.

(So you can harass about half)
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina podestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.

:: ::
S.H.C.R.
User avatar
OP ED
 
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:04 pm
Location: Detroit
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby Elvis » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:50 am

Thanks OP ED, for your comments and replies to my questions. Your take is not really unreasonable to me. It's something to think about.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7561
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:40 am

Who else did Gen. Yellowkerk payoff with Turkish money to do something?

What else did Gen. Yellowkerk do working as a foreign agent?

While Gen. Yellowkerk Flynn was being paid as a foreign agent of Turkey he was also trump campaign adviser he was paying Brian McCauley FBI guy to smear Clinton

Two weeks after Gen. Yellowkerk Flynn began paying off McCauley, the eighteen month old incident suddenly leaked

Gen. Yellowkerk Flynn “consultancy” fees to McCauley shortly before the leak occurred $28,000

Gen. Yellowkerk Flynn illegally took money from Turkey, and then paid a portion of that illicit money to a retired FBI official in order to get a misleading story into the media that damaged Clinton’s election chances at a crucial time.

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn paid an ex-FBI agent at the center of one of Hillary Clinton’s email scandals as part of his lobbying work, newly filed financial disclosures show. The former agent, Brian McCauley, signed a retainer agreement worth $28,000 with Flynn's consulting firm, Flynn Intel Group, last fall. McCauley is perhaps best known for a controversy that broke in October 2016 -- just two weeks after he signed the retainer agreement -- that some say cost Clinton the election. At that time, he said a State Department official had asked him to ensure that one of Clinton’s emails not be deemed “classified” – a move that would spare her from liability for the email being on her private server. McCauley’s statements about the incident at the time were used as ammunition by Republicans to argue the State Department was protecting Clinton, though he later said he had initiated the “quid pro quo” agreement with the State Department official, not the State Department.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... ce=copyurl


Image

Image

Image

three weeks before election day, someone leaked McCauley’s earlier “quid pro quo” offer to the media in an attempt to create the false appearance that Hillary Clinton had done something wrong with her emails and that her former State Department was attempting to cover it up.

Before they fired Michael Flynn Jr. over Pizzagate conspiracy theory, Donald Trump’s transition team wanted to give him security clearance
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/07/before- ... clearance/


this guy ...yea you go with that...Gen. Yellowkerk and his best friend who loved to make up SHIT Ledeen...the guy that helped get us into the war with Iraq with fake shit about yellowcake ...you go with that guy


Will Flynn bring back Yellowcake to WH Menu after 1-21-17?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40188
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby RocketMan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:40 am

Aaaand the answer is reams of copypasta along with images helpfully annotated with very RED and BIG circles and arrows...

I feel like being shouted at from a distance of about an inch from my face every time I venture here these days.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is #Pizzagate?

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:47 am

there I took it out ...feel better now?

and I am leaving in the one SHORT copy/paste small excerpt (not a full copy/paste but a short part of doesn't really qualify as a total copy/paste) sorry bout that..you'll have to live with the torture of it

does small letters help you feel better?
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests