Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby liminalOyster » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:17 pm

Her son died. And then anti-vaxers attacked her
By Elizabeth Cohen and John Bonifield, CNN

Updated 8:21 AM ET, Tue March 19, 2019
(CNN)Not long ago, a 4-year-old boy died of the flu. His mother, under doctor's orders, watched his two little brothers like a hawk, terrified they might get sick and die, too.

Grieving and frightened, just days after her son's death she checked her Facebook page hoping to read messages of comfort from family and friends.
Instead, she found dozens of hateful comments: You're a terrible mother. You killed your child. You deserved what happened to your son. This is all fake - your child doesn't exist.
Bewildered and rattled, she closed her Facebook app.
A few days later she received a text message from someone named Ron. Expect more like this, Ron warned. Expect more.
The attacks were from those who oppose vaccination, and this mother, who lives in the Midwest, doesn't want her name used for fear the attention would only encourage more messages.

Nothing too cruel
Interviews with mothers who've lost children and with those who spy on anti-vaccination groups, reveal a tactic employed by anti-vaxers: When a child dies, members of the group sometimes encourage each other to go on that parent's Facebook page. The anti-vaxers then post messages telling the parents they're lying and their child never existed, or that the parent murdered them, or that vaccines killed the child, or some combination of all of those.
Nothing is considered too cruel. Just days after their children died, mothers say anti-vaxers on social media called them whores, the c-word and baby killers.
The mother in the Midwest, who wants to remain anonymous, isn't alone.
Jill Promoli, who lives outside Toronto, lost her son to flu. She believes the anti-vaxers are trying to silence the very people who can make the strongest argument for vaccinations: those whose children died of vaccine-preventable illnesses.
Jude McGee, who died of the flu at age two. His mother, Jill Promoli, has suffered abuse from anti-vaxers.
Jude McGee, who died of the flu at age two. His mother, Jill Promoli, has suffered abuse from anti-vaxers.
Flu took the life of Promoli's 2-year-old son, Jude McGee, three years ago. She's since started a campaign in his name for flu prevention, including vaccination.
"I know that these people are really trying to hurt me, and I understand that the reason they're doing it is because they want me to stop," she said.
Anti-vaxers respond
Larry Cook, the founder of Stop Mandatory Vaccination, doesn't deny that such attacks on mothers of dead children exist.
In an email to CNN, he wrote that members of his group make more than half a million comments on the group's Facebook page each month.
Some states allow parents to get out of vaccinations. Then this happens
Some states allow parents to get out of vaccinations. Then this happens
"Any discussions about parents who lose their children after those children are vaccinated would be minor in number, and even smaller would be the number of members reaching out to parents in private message to share their concerns that vaccines may have played a role in a death," Cook wrote.

"I do not condone violent behavior or tone and encourage decorum during discussion," Cook wrote, adding that anyone "who deliberately engage[s] in the politics of advocating for compulsory vaccination where children may be further damaged through government vaccine mandates can expect push back and resistance, alongside knowledgable discussions about vaccine risk in social media commentary."
Cook said some of the more than 160,000 members of his group have been targets of "harassment campaigns," and that "police have actually showed up at my members' doorsteps."
He added that he's been threatened and included a screenshot of a private Facebook message that said, "Finally found where you live. Finally I'll be able to put a bullet in you. You are dead."
'Definitely not an anti-vaxer': Some parents push back against recommended vaccine schedule
'Definitely not an anti-vaxer': Some parents push back against recommended vaccine schedule
Another anti-vaccination leader blamed the postings on grieving parents' pages on "infiltrators" who try to "create incendiary situations."
"I tell everybody that you should look at the person you're talking to and those on the other side of this discussion and recognize that they care about children, too," said Del Bigtree, chief executive officer of the Informed Consent Action Network.
During the public comment period at a meeting last month of the US Center for Disease Control's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, more than a dozen people spoke about their concerns about vaccines. Some said they or their loved ones had been injured by vaccines.
"My older son suffered documented illness and regression following vaccination," said Jackie Martin-Sebell. "These vaccines are not safe for everyone."
Another speaker, Rilei Cherry, said her son developed autism as a result of vaccines. "We owe it to our children to truly look at the long term effects of vaccines and be honest about what could happen to our children," she told the CDC committee.

Despite the speakers' concerns, more than a dozen studies have shown that vaccines do not cause autism. The American Academy of Pediatrics says "Vaccines are safe. Vaccines are effective. Vaccines save lives."
Jill Promoli with her twin boys, Jude and Thomas McGee. Jude died at age two of the flu.
Jill Promoli with her twin boys, Jude and Thomas McGee. Jude died at age two of the flu.
The mothers
On May 6, 2016, Promoli put her toddlers Jude and his twin brother Thomas, down for an afternoon nap in their home. Jude had a low-grade fever, but he was laughing and singing when he went down for his nap.
When his mother went to check on him two hours later, he was dead. Promoli said the next few weeks were "a living hell."
"Having to go in and plan a funeral and find the ability somehow to even take steps to walk into a funeral home, to make plans and decide whether to bury or cremate your child -- it was just all so horrifying," she said.
When an autopsy came back showing Jude had died of the flu, Promoli started her flu prevention campaign.
Teen opts to get vaccinated despite mother's objection

Teen opts to get vaccinated despite mother's objection 04:58
That's when the online attacks began.
Some anti-vaxers told her she'd murdered Jude and made up a story about the flu to cover up her crime. Others said vaccines had killed her son. Some called her the c-word.
The worst ones -- the ones that would sometimes make her cry -- were the posts that said she was advocating for flu shots so that other children would die from the shots and their parents would be miserable like she was.
"The first time it made me feel really sick because I couldn't fathom how anybody could even come up with such a terrible claim," Promoli said. "It caught me off guard in its cruelty. What kind of a person does this?"
Twisted logic that relies on scientific lies doesn't bother Promoli so much anymore. She's continued with her flu shot campaign, persuading Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to publicize his flu shot.
View image on Twitter
View image on Twitter

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"I've had to grow some very thick skin," she said.
She said no matter how many nasty messages she's received -- and she says she's received hundreds -- she'll continue her campaign.
"The work that we're doing might mean that somebody else doesn't have to go plan a funeral for their toddler, and that is everything," she said.
Other mothers have also persevered despite attacks from anti-vaxers.
Serese Marotta lost her 5-year-old son, Joseph, to the flu in 2009, and is now chief operating officer of Families Fighting Flu, a group that encourages flu awareness and prevention, including vaccination.
In 2017, she posted a video on the eighth anniversary of her son's death to reinforce the importance of getting the flu vaccine.
"SLUT," one person commented. "PHARMA WHORE."
"May you rot in hell for all the damages you do!" a Facebook user wrote on another one of her posts.
She says a Facebook user in Australia sent her a death threat.
"She called me a lot of names I won't repeat and used the go-to conspiracy theories about government and big pharma, and I responded, 'I lost a child,' and questioned where she was coming from, and she continued to attack me," said Marotta, who lives in Syracuse, New York.
Catherine and Greg Hughes, an Australian couple who lost their 1-month old son, Riley, to whooping cough, have also received online abuse. Too young to be vaccinated, Riley relied on herd immunity -- the vaccinations of others -- to protect him.
As his mother held his hand, Riley Hughes was baptized hours before he passed away.
As his mother held his hand, Riley Hughes was baptized hours before he passed away.
But herd immunity didn't protect him, since the area where the Hughes family lived in Perth has some of the lowest vaccination rates in Australia.
"Riley's death was a very inconvenient truth for anti-vaccine activists," Catherine said. "The nasty messages started 24 hours after he died. They called us baby killers and said we would have the blood of other babies on our hands. We've been told to kill ourselves."
The couple started a vaccination campaign, Light for Riley.
Catherine said they still receive vile comments years after Riley's death.
"[F**k] you, Hughes family," one Facebook user wrote on the Light for Riley page.
"What a [f**king] evil whore you really are," another user wrote to them in a private Facebook message.
Another Facebook user was more succinct.
"Please die," the user wrote in a private message.
"A lot of them come from the position that they have children that were vaccine-injured," Catherine said. "But a fair chunk of them are just haters."
The professor
Grieving mothers aren't the only targets of anti-vaxer abuse.
Dorit Reiss, a professor at UC Hastings School of Law, has received countless vile messages, and as with the mothers, many of the messages are gender-oriented. Over the years, she's become pretty blasé about it.
"'Whore' is pretty normal," said Reiss, a pro-vaccine advocate who has written extensively about vaccines. "I've also been called a [c**t]."
Sometimes Reiss, who is Jewish, receives comments that mention the Holocaust.
One Facebook user made a meme with a photo of her father with "Proud Supporter of the Vaccine Holocaust." Reiss says her father has nothing to do with vaccines.
Another meme shows a photo of Reiss holding her infant son and it says that Reiss is "FORCE-injecting" her baby with vaccines.
Below the photo is written: "Because one holocaust wasn't enough."
Anti-vaxers' adult son gets measles; now, he has this message for the world
Anti-vaxers' adult son gets measles; now, he has this message for the world
Other Facebook users have said her children look sick in photos, and that vaccines are clearly to blame.
"The Boy [sic] appears lethargic," one user wrote, with "dark circles under his eyes. These are common precipitants of vaccine induced immune damage and suppression, as well as vaccine induced transient ischemic adverse event."
Of all the various messages from anti-vaxers, Reiss said the one that angered her the most was a voicemail left for her husband on his work phone.
"If I hear or see anything written by your wife after today, I will release your phone number, your work phone number, your work address, her work address, her work phone number," the caller said, correctly reciting their phone numbers and home address.
The doctors
Three pediatricians who are vocal vaccine advocates have also been frequent targets of anti-vaxers. All three now have security escorts when they speak publicly.
Facebook to get tougher on anti-vaxers
Facebook to get tougher on anti-vaxers
Dr. Paul Offit keeps a fat folder of nasty messages he's received so that "if someone kills me, my wife can give it to the police." He does not laugh when he says this.
"Rot in hell you baby killer," one user wrote in an email to Offit, who is director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and professor of pediatrics at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.
"Go [f**king] kill yourself," another wrote.
Dr. Peter Hotez at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston is a vaccine researcher who wrote a book about his daughter called "Vaccines did not Cause Rachel's Autism."
"You have no morals whatsoever and you know that you are a [f**king] liar. I hope you rot in hell," one anti-vaxer emailed Hotez, a professor of pediatrics and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor.
Users on the social media platform MeWe discussed an upcoming public meeting Hotez was expected to attend.
"Maybe if we cause him enough stress he'll have a heart attack before [Wednesday]," one woman wrote, adding, "#sorrynotsorry."
Dr. Richard Pan, a pediatrician and a California state senator, spearheaded a successful attempt to get rid of vaccine exemptions for personal or religious reasons for schoolchildren in his state. He's frequently been the target of race-driven abuse by anti-vaxers on Facebook.
He says he's received thousands of hateful messages from anti-vaxers.
"Chinese garbage," one user wrote on Pan's Facebook page, followed by vomiting and devil emojis. "Most ignorant [a**hole]."
"I hope they stone you to death," another Facebook user wrote. "I'll make a special trip to happily watch your head crack. The parents of the children you are destroying should each get a chance. Like a nazi piñata."
Some of the professionals and the mothers interviewed for this story said they reported the abusive messages they received to Facebook. Most of those who made reports said they received an automated response and in the end nothing changed. Others said after they made a report the sender was suspended from Facebook for a short period of time, or their offensive messages were removed.
Others said they didn't report to Facebook because the process was onerous or they'd heard that it wouldn't change anything.
A Facebook spokesperson responded to these concerns:
"We try to empower our users with controls, such as blocking other users and moderating comments, so they can limit their exposure to unwanted, offensive or hurtful content. We also encourage people to report bullying behavior on our platform, so we can review the content and take proper action," the spokesperson wrote in an email.
"We want members of our community to feel safe and respected on Facebook and will remove material that appears to purposefully target private individuals with the intention of degrading or shaming them."
The spy
Erin Costello creates fake Facebook accounts so she can join anti-vaxer groups to see if members are planning to attack mothers of dead children.
Erin Costello creates fake Facebook accounts so she can join anti-vaxer groups to see if members are planning to attack mothers of dead children.
Erin Costello, a former bartender and current stay-at-home mom in Utica, New York, is the "Ron" who texted the grieving mother in the Midwest, warning her to expect more anti-vaxer attacks. Costello is an administrator for the pro-vaccine Facebook page "What's the Harm?"
Costello is one of several vaccine advocates who've set up so-called "sock puppet" or fake Facebook accounts and then joins the closed anti-vaxer groups to spy on them.
She said she often sees members discussing posts by parents of sick or dead children, sometimes suggesting that members "educate" those parents by posting on their page.
For example, a member of the anti-vaccine group Stop Mandatory Vaccination said a mother had posted that her baby had suffered seizures after receiving vaccines.
The anti-vaxer urged others in the group to "comment for her to read! I want to win this mom over and she really trusts her pediatrician but at the same time she is scared!"
Another member of Stop Mandatory Vaccination re-posted a post by Catherine Hughes, the mother who'd lost her child to a vaccine-preventable disease, calling for others to vaccinate their children.
"Anyone want to chime in on this post?" the anti-vaxer wrote.
Another member responded, "I feel sorry for the lost baby and her other children but someone needs to inject her with vaccines until she dies."
A mother's greatest fear
When she sees anti-vaxers talking about parents in their closed groups, Costello, the online pro-vaccine spy, gets in touch with those parents to warn them they may be getting nasty messages from the anti-vaxers.
When Costello reached out to the mother in the Midwest, she explained why she was contacting her.
"I know you're likely getting many horrible messages on Facebook right now," Costello wrote to the mother. "Children such as [yours] are the reason why I do my part to fight for overwhelming acceptance of vaccines as well as fight against the lies and misinformation that are recklessly spread around against vaccines."
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The mother wrote back.
"I appreciate the strong role you take in helping protect families like mine," she said.
After hundreds of Facebook comments from anti-vaxers, the mother turned off comments on her page, and deleted many of the ones she received.
Some are still in her head, though. She weeps as she remembers the one that was hardest to read.
"The ones that said this was a fake story. That he wasn't real. That my child didn't exist," she said. "Because when your child dies, that's the biggest fear -- that he will be forgotten."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/19/health/a ... index.html
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:57 pm

While attacking any mother whose child died for any reason is deplorable, I highly doubt that flu vaccination would have helped.

First, what is the evidence that any of these children died of one of the exact flu strains that were selected for protection in the years they died?

Second, flu vaccines are only effective for those who need them least. And in many flu seasons, they cannot possibly have any significant effect on overall rates of influenza-like illnesses simply because the people who guess which strains to include in the annual vaccination guess wrong. We could easily at least attempt to collect data each flu season to quantify how effective each year's flu vaccine was in reducing incidence of the flu by comparing the overall rates of ILIs of flu vaccinated populations to those of flu unvaccinated populations, but for some strange reason, we never seem to get around to collecting all those pesky data. So until then, just have faith that your mercury-spiked flu vaccine will confer to you more benefit than harm. Or just have faith that there would surely have been ONE LESS dead child had you only done the selfless thing and gotten that jab of mercury for the good of the herd. However you justify it to yourself, just make sure you never, ever miss a year! Because we all know that VACCINATION is always awesome! No data required.

BTW, Jude Promoli had received a flu vaccination.

https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-129 ... -1.8564720

While Jude had gotten his flu shot, Promoli is still advocating for the vaccine.

“That is the first thing that people often ask us, they say, ‘Okay, well if it didn't work for him then why are you suggesting other people get it?’ The thing is so it's not perfect, but it saves a lot of lives.”


I guess VACCINATION is always awesome, even if your son dies of the malady the vaccination was supposed to prevent.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:38 pm

The spy

Erin Costello, a former bartender and current stay-at-home mom in Utica, New York, is the "Ron" who texted the grieving mother in the Midwest, warning her to expect more anti-vaxer attacks. Costello is an administrator for the pro-vaccine Facebook page "What's the Harm?"

Costello is one of several vaccine advocates who've set up so-called "sock puppet" or fake Facebook accounts and then joins the closed anti-vaxer groups to spy on them.

She said she often sees members discussing posts by parents of sick or dead children, sometimes suggesting that members "educate" those parents by posting on their page.

For example, a member of the anti-vaccine group Stop Mandatory Vaccination said a mother had posted that her baby had suffered seizures after receiving vaccines.

The anti-vaxer urged others in the group to "comment for her to read! I want to win this mom over and she really trusts her pediatrician but at the same time she is scared!"

Another member of Stop Mandatory Vaccination re-posted a post by Catherine Hughes, the mother who'd lost her child to a vaccine-preventable disease, calling for others to vaccinate their children.

"Anyone want to chime in on this post?" the anti-vaxer wrote.

Another member responded, "I feel sorry for the lost baby and her other children but someone needs to inject her with vaccines until she dies."


LOL. So was this "other member" a mother whose child regressed into autism after vaccination, or was this "other member" just another sock puppet pro-vaccination spy?

A mother's greatest fear

When she sees anti-vaxers talking about parents in their closed groups, Costello, the online pro-vaccine spy, gets in touch with those parents to warn them they may be getting nasty messages from the anti-vaxers.

When Costello reached out to the mother in the Midwest, she explained why she was contacting her.

"I know you're likely getting many horrible messages on Facebook right now," Costello wrote to the mother. "Children such as [yours] are the reason why I do my part to fight for overwhelming acceptance of vaccines as well as fight against the lies and misinformation that are recklessly spread around against vaccines."

The mother wrote back.

"I appreciate the strong role you take in helping protect families like mine," she said.


Thank God that there are pro-vaccination heroes like Erin setting up sock puppets to infiltrate closed anti-vaccination groups in order to warn innocent grieving mothers about their impending villainy! Without brave pro-vaccination sock puppet creating spy heroes like Erin, mass media may have been deprived of this shocking story that there are actually certain people (but of course never, ever sock puppets) who use social media to say terrible things.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:04 pm

Robert Kennedy Jr.: The Trump White House Has Shut Me Out on Vaccines

The high-profile vaccine skeptic says the administration has turned over its policy decisions to pharma lobbyists.


Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said on Tuesday that the Trump administration had turned its back on vaccine skeptics, including himself, after initially expressing interest in creating a group to look into their safety.

“He told me that he wanted to create a vaccine safety commission and that he wanted me to chair it,” Kennedy said in response to a question at the Connecticut Vaccine Science Forum. “He asked me to announce it at a press conference, to the press at Trump tower and almost immediately I started feeling a lot of blowback within the administration.”
Kennedy said that at the beginning of the administration, he met with Trump, former White House chief of staff Reince Priebus, senior adviser Jared Kushner, former senior advisor Steve Bannon and counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway about setting up the commission.

“I was very optimistic about it,” he said, adding that he initially was given “high level meetings” with “agencies” and presented a powerpoint detailing his group’s belief that vaccines were harmful to children.

“We left convinced the White House was going to follow up and then the White House went dark,” Kennedy said.

Kennedy put blame for his ostracism on the administration’s hiring of “pharmaceutical lobbyists who are very pro-vaccines” to run the Centers for Disease Control and other healthcare-related agencies. “Policy, the president likes to say, policy is personnel, well, he put in those positions, personnel that represent the policies that he wants which is very, very pro-pharma agenda,” he said. “I’m sorry to report.”

One of Trump’s CDC directors, Brenda Fitzgerald, did have to abruptly resign from the post because her financial interests forced her to recuse herself from too many agency matters. The current head of the CDC, Robert R. Redfield, was a professor of medicine and microbiology before assuming that post. Neither have previously lobbied for pharmaceutical companies.
The White House did not immediately return a request for comment.

Kennedy is one of the more public vaccine skeptics in the country. His group, Children’s Health Defense, believes there is a link between autism and childhood vaccines, particularly the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, despite the fact that studies have repeatedly shown that there is no such link.
In Trump, he believed he had a kindred spirit. In January 2017, Kennedy told reporters the president had requested to meet with him on the issue of vaccine safety.
“President-elect Trump has some doubts about the current vaccine policies, and he has questions about it,” Kennedy said at the time. “His opinion doesn’t matter, but the science does matter, and we ought to be reading the science, and we ought to be debating the science.”

Rand Paul: Vaccines Give ‘False Sense of Security’

During a 2015 presidential debate, Trump openly expressed skepticism about vaccines.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-ke ... ref=scroll
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:34 pm

As far as I can tell, Trump has kept exactly two of his promises, his promise to give huge tax breaks to the top 1% and his promise to put troglodytes on the Supreme Court.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:45 pm

^^^^^^^

I detest Trump but also do not support Kennedy in this matter.

In general I support vaccines but think that safety can and should be improved (take out the mercury to start) and the science and FDA approval more open and less corporate.

Could have died with chicken pox age 34 (1987), was hospitalized and down for the count for several weeks. Never recovered the same level of youthful vitality.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:34 pm

PufPuf93 » 20 Mar 2019 18:45 wrote:^^^^^^^

I detest Trump but also do not support Kennedy in this matter.

In general I support vaccines but think that safety can and should be improved (take out the mercury to start) and the science and FDA approval more open and less corporate.

Could have died with chicken pox age 34 (1987), was hospitalized and down for the count for several weeks. Never recovered the same level of youthful vitality.


What do you mean when you say that you "do not support Kennedy in this matter"?

Do you mean that you do not support Kennedy's stance that we should take a closer look at data that suggest that some vaccines can cause adverse effects to a small percentage of individuals?

Or do you mean that you do not support his questioning of your faith in the inherent ontological awesomeness of the monolith of VACCINATION in general?

Or something else completely?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:06 pm

stickdog99 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:34 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » 20 Mar 2019 18:45 wrote:^^^^^^^

I detest Trump but also do not support Kennedy in this matter.

In general I support vaccines but think that safety can and should be improved (take out the mercury to start) and the science and FDA approval more open and less corporate.

Could have died with chicken pox age 34 (1987), was hospitalized and down for the count for several weeks. Never recovered the same level of youthful vitality.


What do you mean when you say that you "do not support Kennedy in this matter"?

Do you mean that you do not support Kennedy's stance that we should take a closer look at data that suggest that some vaccines can cause adverse effects to a small percentage of individuals?

Or do you mean that you do not support his questioning of your faith in the inherent ontological awesomeness of the monolith of VACCINATION in general?

Or something else completely?


I don't support the antivaxxer perspective, meaning I am pro-vaccine but we can certainly do better than status quo.

I concur with "should take a closer look at data that suggest that some vaccines can cause adverse effects to a small percentage of individuals" but probably different and it is not and has never been something that occupies hardly any of my time.

In general I do think corporations have captured far too much of science and the regulatory process, one important way in that the capture and profit concerns makes the realm sticky regards to moving on to better technology or from situations where there are problems.

There is a risk that some vaccines are too prone to negative reactions and that folks could and should be screened for their susceptibility to adverse effects.

Moving on from mercury in vaccines is obvious at this point, just in terms of risk versus new and better technology.

Vaccines are an evolving thing, better approaches are found but older approaches lose effectiveness or have risks and effects not noted as severe and what I find bad held on to even with the problem known, perhaps even only by insiders, in the name of profit.

My mind is a shadow of its former self but have a hard science education (forest ecology and soil science from Cal) and worked in a Fed lab at one point in ecological sciences and later spent several years in my 40s employed by Oregon State as a research scientist; what I am trying to say have a scientific perspective in biological sciences and have been part of research community.

Not sure exactly what this "Or do you mean that you do not support his questioning of your faith in the inherent ontological awesomeness of the monolith of VACCINATION in general?" but I do not find Kennedy particularly scientific or helpful other than inflating emotions over the subject. I do not have pure faith in anything including within the scientific community and especially so in area where government regulation and corporate profit overlap.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:57 pm

Not sure exactly what this "Or do you mean that you do not support his questioning of your faith in the inherent ontological awesomeness of the monolith of VACCINATION in general?" but I do not find Kennedy particularly scientific or helpful other than inflating emotions over the subject. I do not have pure faith in anything including within the scientific community and especially so in area where government regulation and corporate profit overlap.


Fair enough, but what are you basing your own seemingly emotion-based critique of RFK, Jr. on? Here is a list of the books RFK, Jr. has written or contributed to: https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/8 ... ennedy_Jr_

Why does his very measured, rational, and evidence-backed voice suddenly become "unhelpful" when he questions the vaccine industry in the exact same manner that he questions other corporate capture of our government regulatory agencies?

Have you read any of his books that question the safety of certain vaccines and vaccine ingredients? Have you listened to any interviews he has done on this subject? He appears to me to have entered such shark-infested waters very reluctantly.
Last edited by stickdog99 on Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:21 am

.
I'll briefly chime in here and simply say that, while I can appreciate the ire against the cartoonish iterations of the 'anti-vaxx' movement, the efforts by RFK Jr and his ilk are minimally to be commended. We need more like him, at least with respect to this topic.

I'm not "anti-vaxx" , but I've been quite selective in what's administered to my girls. No flu shots. No more than one mandated f'ing vaccine at a time, spread as far apart as possible.
I've submitted letters citing 'religious beliefs' in certain instances.

There's going to be far ends of the spectrum in this debate, but proper scrutiny is absolutely merited here, for myriad reasons.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:59 pm

Should have responded earlier (and started to) but my energy level is not great these days.

I have respect for Kennedy as an advocate and advocates are necessary but Kennedy is not a scientist.

I worry about regulatory capture and research capture by corporations and other intrenched interests.

Also we agree in that there are "bad" products offered as vaccines and also impacts that should have been recognized and were not addressed in time and severity.

But vaccines are good technology and ubiquitous in general. Past time to move past mercury and other countries with modern medicine already have stopped that technology.

I am elderly and in poor health yet have never taken a flu shot and haven't experienced the flu for 20 plus years. In my mid-30s had a serious case of chicken pox that could have killed me; time in hospital, out of commission for 2 weeks, dividing line where vigor of youth was no more.

I am more concerned with poor regulation and science and how they impact vaccines.

My bias is that advocates can only take scientific issues so far, that is raise awareness, but here are diminishing returns because advocates also miss scientific nuance and tend to mix new approaches to better situations with what they are admirably fighting against.

Actually think we are sort of like mind. There are grim problems with regulatory capture and politicized or bought science. Have no problem with Kennedy in general on this topic, admittedly have not read any of his books but he is prominent in the question of vaccination. Like many current issues opinions are polarized and from that position it is hard to more productively forward.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:51 am

Some people here will find this of value:

Del Bigtree | Vaccine Deception, Big Pharma, & What The Science Really Says

https://www.thehighersidechats.com/podcasts/
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:12 am

NYC has declared a state of emergency and is requiring vaccinations amid a measles outbreak.

Image

How A Group For Jewish Moms Spread Anti-Vax Propaganda Before New York’s Measles Outbreak
“Frankly, it is dangerous and of great concern to our Department of Health,” said a New York county official.

Claudia Koerner
BuzzFeed News Reporter

Julia Reinstein
BuzzFeed News Reporter
Last updated on April 12, 2019, at 7:19 p.m. ET
Posted on April 12, 2019, at 3:57 p.m. ET
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A charity focused on Jewish mothers has been spreading anti-vaccine propaganda, pushing narratives of damaged children and broken religious laws in New York neighborhoods that are now the epicenter of the worst measles outbreak in almost two decades.

PEACH, formally known as Parents Educating and Advocating for Children’s Health, has been circulating magazines and pamphlets since at least 2014 that claim vaccines are in opposition with Jewish religious law, (falsely) link vaccines to autism, and recount anonymous horror stories of children being irreparably harmed by vaccines. Led by Jewish mothers, the group has brought anti-vax arguments and conspiracies into a community known for its cautious interaction with the modern, secular world.


“Frankly, it is dangerous and of great concern to our Department of Health,” Rockland County spokesperson John Lyon told BuzzFeed News.

And New York City's health commissioner, Dr. Oxiris Barbot, said at a news conference Tuesday that the outbreak “is being fueled by a small group of anti-vaxxers in these neighborhoods. They have been spreading dangerous misinformation based on fake science.”

Public health officials have called the measles outbreak a crisis, with 180 recorded cases of the disease since last fall in Rockland County and at least 285 in New York City. In both areas, measles has struck particularly hard in Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, and health officials have worked with rabbis and other community leaders to spread the message: Vaccines are safe, and they save lives.

The PEACH stories and "experts" tell a darker story, one that's been repeatedly debunked by mainstream science, medical professionals, and religious leaders. The pamphlet downplays the danger of diseases such as measles, while pointing to the increase in diagnoses of autism. (Experts say those numbers have risen as parents have become more aware of autism, and doctors now diagnose a range of characteristics as part of the autism spectrum.) The pamphlet accuses pediatricians of covering up the dangers of vaccines for financial gain — another conspiracy theory — when in reality, vaccines are a tiny sliver of the pharmaceutical industry's profits, and individual doctors can lose money on administering vaccines.

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Peach
Then there's the anonymous testimonials, apparently offered by other Jewish moms — terrifying stories that are difficult to verify, but apparently endorsed by a neighbor. They offer the kind of appeal that causes fake news to spread on Facebook or urban legends to travel by word of mouth.

"My husband is a nursery school Rebbe. He watched a cute, outgoing 3-year-old boy change overnight into a silent boy who stopped interacting with the other children. When my husband inquired if anything had recently happened to this boy, the mother told him that he'd just received vaccines," read one testimonial.

Still, thousands of residents have listened to public health officials and received vaccinations in response to the recent measles outbreak. But as new infections continue, Rockland County has taken the unprecedented step of banning unvaccinated children from public places, a decision now on hold as it faces a court challenge. On Wednesday, New York similarly declared a state of emergency, requiring any person exposed to the virus to be vaccinated.


“We’re concerned that with Passover coming up, people are going to gather, they’re going to be celebrating with their family, they’re going to be sharing food, sharing close quarters,” Marcy Miranda, a spokesperson for the city’s public health department, told BuzzFeed News. “And because measles is a really, really highly contagious disease, we want to make sure people are safe.”

Miranda said the city is aware of PEACH's activities, and anecdotally at least, the group seems to be having an impact. To fight back against vaccine misinformation, city health officials are working with sources in Orthodox neighborhoods that people already trust, including rabbis and community health organizations. The city health department has also taken out ads in Jewish newspapers and worked to circulate fliers of its own.

“From what we’re hearing from the rabbinical leaders, they’re supportive of the message that vaccines save lives and that’s what they’re passing on,” Miranda said. “We’re just trying to work against [misinformation] and make sure people face it, that vaccines are safe and that’s really the best way to protect yourself and your kids and your community.”

IRS documents show that a group named Parents Educating and Advocating for Children’s Health received tax-exempt status as a public charity in 2015. Its operations apparently remain small, under the $50,000 donation threshold where more documentation would be required. Its principal officer was listed as Rebecca Fleischmann, who told BuzzFeed News that her nonprofit group did not publish or have any association with the magazine or pamphlets.

Fleischmann has publicly been an advocate for holistic health care for Jewish families, as well as a proponent of allowing exemptions from vaccine mandates.

Her nonprofit PEACH does business as Enriched Parenting, and on its site, Fleischmann describes herself as a wife, a mother of four, and a speech language pathologist who previously worked with autistic children. The site offers information on various health topics, and its pages on vaccines and autism, as well as vaccines and Jewish law, were taken down. It continues to host a New York form for parents seeking a religious exemption from vaccines. Representing the group, she in 2017 signed a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services protesting current vaccine standards and accusing federal health officials of misleading the public about vaccines and autism.

"Enriched Parenting is a DBA of Parents Educating & Advocating for Children's Health, Inc. Our organization is not affiliated with Peach magazine. We are an organization that supports religious, philosophical, and medical choice. We are not, nor ever have been 'anti' anything other than coercion and loss of civil liberties," she said in a statement. "We support informed decision making and right of choice for all parents. Our activities are geared toward education and health options on a wide variety of subjects not limited to vaccine information. We are a pro-choice organization."

Like in many communities in the US, vaccines prompt big discussions among observant Jewish women. On the online forum Imamother, where observant Jewish women swap recipes and parenting tips, threads about vaccines often get hundreds of replies. In 2014, one pro-vaccine woman complained about a magazine by PEACH that unexpectedly showed up on her doorstep.

Promising “How to Prevent Your Children From Being Damaged by Vaccines,” the magazine drew ire from some women who feared the outsize influence a publication promoting its Jewish viewpoint could have in gaining Orthodox women’s trust.

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PEACH / Via issuu.com
Over the years, other women said they received PEACH publications, which also include a 40-page pamphlet titled "The Vaccine Safety Handbook," in various New York and New Jersey communities. The new pamphlet directed women to find more information via a telephone hotline, a typical way for religious Jewish women to get information tailored to their values.

The Akeres Habayis, or homemaker, hotline offers a number of channels, including music, inspirational lectures, and information on managing stress. For several years, it has also provided “The Truth About Vaccines” in a section claimed by PEACH.

Recorded lectures claim to offer medical backing to debunked myths via a series of anti-vaccine experts. PEACH also has used a conference call line to connect moms with anti-vax rabbis and other guest speakers, where they can ask questions and share stories.

The calls are led by Chany Silber, a Jewish mother in Brooklyn. She didn’t return a phone call from BuzzFeed News, but last month, she briefly spoke to a WNYC reporter who knocked on her door.

“Listen, nobody died. Nobody’s dying,” she told WNYC, who then pressed her on the deaths routinely caused by measles before vaccination was widespread. “The CDC says a lot of fake things,” she said.

Public health officials have stressed that anti-vax groups don't represent the views of most their residents, including the Orthodox community.

“Thankfully we have seen great support from elected officials, community and religious leaders in urging vaccinations,” Lyon told BuzzFeed News. “But correcting this misinformation is an uphill battle.”
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/cl ... gc#4ldqpgc
does announcing genocide on twitter violate terms of service?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:17 pm

I want to see the data that confirm that the vast majority of children contracting measles are unvaccinated Jews and that the measles cases among these unvaccinated kids are actually a public health emergency. I can't find a shred of objective data among scores of articles reflecting corporate media hysteria about PEACH, a grassroot organization with legitimate concerns about certain vaccine ingredients. Instead, de Blasio has used a few cases of measles, supposedly afflicting hundreds of unclean Jews, to implement a program of mandatory vaccination requiring forced vaccination against the basic medical principle of informed consent.

Do you actually endorse forcing currently healthy people to be tied down and injected with potentially injurious ingredients against their will? How about the "emergency order" issued that levies a misdemeanor fine and a penalty of 6 months in jail for any child discovered in a public space if this child has not been vaccinated against the measles? Wow, that sets a really great precedent! What's next? Dental jail for not drinking fluoridated water? Flu jail for not getting your annual dose of mercury? Hyperactive jail for not taking your prescribed speed so you can better endure your grade school chalk dust torture?

http://sandrarose.com/2019/03/black-par ... or-minors/

Black parents are protesting a state of emergency order issued by Rockland County officials that bans children under 18 from public spaces if they have not been vaccinated against the measles.

The county is battling an outbreak of the measles that has entered its 26th week - the longest since the disease was eradicated in 2000, according to NBC NY.

The ban went into effect at midnight Wednesday. It bans youths under 18 from public places - including schools and shopping malls - for 30 days if they have not received the MMR vaccine to protect them against measles, mumps and rubella. ...

The penalty for violating the order is a misdemeanor fine and 6 months in jail, according to Rockland County Executive Ed Day at a press conference on Tuesday.


How about forced closures of schools who protect the medical privacy of their staffs and students? Why is it OK for the government to keep the demographic data about this supposed measles outbreak emergency secret, while closing down schools that do not force their students to get vaccinated against their parents' will?

https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/health-de ... -outbreak/

The city Health Department shut down a preschool program tun by a Williamsburg yeshiva Monday for repeatedly refusing to turn over immunization and attendance records amid the measles outbreak. The closure of the United Talmudical Academy’s program at 75 Ross St. came less than a week after Mayor de Blasio ordered mandatory vaccinations in predominantly Hasidic neighborhoods across four Brooklyn ZIP codes.

“This outbreak will continue to worsen, and the case count will grow if child-care programs and schools do not follow our direction,” warned Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot in announcing the closure.


Very interesting choice of words, wouldn't you agree? Was that a threat or a promise?

Since the outbreak began in October, there have been 329 measles cases recorded in the city, with most in the Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods of Williamsburg and Borough Park in Brooklyn. About 86 percent of the victims, 284, were under 18.

How many were actually unvaccinated Orthodox Jewish children? And what about the other 45 cases? Where were they from? Were these adults vaccinated or unvaccinated? How many "victims" are now currently healthy to enjoy their lifelong immunity to the dreaded measles?

Forty-four new cases have developed since de Blasio issued the emergency order Tuesday, which gave anyone living, working or attending school in the 11205, 11206, 11211 and 11249 ZIP codes 48 hours to be vaccinated or face a $1,000 fine.

48 hours notice? Damn, that's two full seasons of 24! That's longer than it took the fighter jets to scramble on 9/11! I thought this was an emergency!

Twenty-three yeshivas and day-care programs have already received Notices of Violation for ignoring the mayor’s order to exclude students who haven’t been vaccinated. But United Talmudical was the first to be closed.

I have an even "better" idea. Why not just round up all of these vaccination objectors and concentrate them into their own camps so all of their ills cannot threaten the rest of us?

New York Times reprint

In New York’s ultra-Orthodox community, the anti-vaccine movement has no clear leader. Jewish leaders have said its message has spread through grassroots activism and has gained ground largely because many Hasidim have limited access to the Internet or scientific research.

Stupid Jewish Luddites

Many of the vaccine sceptics cloak their rhetoric with scientific language, as did the speakers on the recent conference call. The call, which was advertised on flyers and accessible to anyone with the call-in number, told participants its goal was to “create an intelligent discussion about what we are putting into our children.” It featured speakers who were rabbis, doctors and lawyers, all of whom touted postgraduate degrees as they downplayed the dangers of measles and questioned the efficacy of vaccines.

How dare they question vaccine safety using doctors, lawyers, and scientific language!

The measles outbreak began in New York in October, after ultra-Orthodox Jews had returned from Israel where they were celebrating Sukkot, a Jewish harvest festival. They had prayed at the Western Wall, eaten in sukkahs and vacationed in the warm weather. But Israel was in the midst of an outbreak, and health officials said that several unvaccinated children came home with the virus.

The CDC requires all travelers to Israel over 6 months of age to be vaccinated against the measles. So how were several unvaccinated children allowed to travel to Israel? Were they all under 6 months old?

Dr Yakov Kiffel, a paediatrician in Monsey in Rockland County, said that he has both vaccinated children and treated about a half-dozen patients with measles since the fall. He said the majority of the sick were under 6 months old — the age at which a child can be given the first dose of the MMR vaccine — and members of families that said they vaccinate.

So his cases were among either children who were too young to be vaccinated under the CDC's won recommendations or else vaccinated children. How about the rest of the cases?

More than 400 measles cases have been confirmed in New York since October, and the majority of them have been among Hasidim.

Again, what are the actual data? How many were Hasidic? How many from each zip code? How many were under 6 months old and hence could not yet be vaccinated in any case? How many developed serious health consequences from contracting measles? And most importantly, how many were up to date on their measles vaccinations?

“The lack of a comprehensive secular education has raised a generation of some parents who do not appreciate modern science and do not have trust in the health system,” said Dov Bleich, a Hasidic father of two who lives in Monsey and emphasised that most rabbis support vaccines. “It’s leaving them vulnerable to the anti-vaccine crusade.”

Stupid Jewish Luddites

The adverse events from getting measles, they’re very, very, very low,” Dr Lawrence Palevsky, a paediatrician in New York, said on the recent conference call. There have been no reported deaths in New York state in the recent outbreak.

Stupid Jewish Luddite
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:37 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/nyre ... ak-ny.html

“I am a religious Jew, whose religious convictions are being blatantly violated by the vaccine Diktats, which are a clear violation of the Nuremberg Code, which forbids forcing medical procedures on anyone without their fully-informed consent,” the form says.

It continues: “Childhood diseases, like measles and chickenpox, unlike smallpox and ebola, are not a legitimate public health menace, and do not justify an emergency declaration.”

On Tuesday, Mr. de Blasio said unvaccinated residents in certain ZIP codes in Brooklyn must receive a measles vaccination or face a $1,000 fine. The next day, 20 city health inspectors began auditing vaccination records at yeshivas, and 15 disease detectives started interviewing those who had potentially been exposed to the highly contagious virus, the Health Department said.

But many who support vaccines say they worry that the city is missing the mark by not addressing the crucial issue: the misinformation flooding Hasidic communities that tells them to be wary of vaccines. Literature and hotlines spread debunked theories about immunizations, falsely warning that they cause autism and lead to other health problems.


So is the real problem stupid Luddite Jews demanding control over their own bodies or our freedom of speech to question corporate capture of our government regulatory agencies? I mean, it has to be one or the other. Right?

“Unless you begin dismantling this anti-vaccine media empire, you’re not going to have a big impact on any specific public health measure,” he said.

Yes. Once again, we must combat the real root of all of our societal problems, our only true enemy, all the nattering nabobs of negativity who dare question the authority of authority!

In the wake of the emergency order, Jewish leaders say they fear a continued rise in anti-Semitism. In recent months, Hasidic neighborhoods have been the targets of a slew of anti-Semitic hate crimes, and Jewish leaders reported another one on Thursday.

Rabbi David Niederman, the president of the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, said a city bus driver tried to refuse service to a Hasidic woman in Brooklyn. The driver eventually let the woman board, Mr. Niederman said, but then shouted “measles” at her and directed her to move to the back of the bus.


Hmmm. What could have possibly fomented this display of hatred?

Mr. de Blasio’s administration has also faced criticism for not reacting quickly enough to the measles outbreak, which began last fall after unvaccinated children returned from Israel.

Again, how were all of these unvaccinated children allowed to travel to Israel when the CDC requires all US citizens over 6 months old to be vaccinated against measles in order to travel to Israel?
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