Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:21 am

stickdog99 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:44 am wrote:
mentalgongfu2 » 29 Jun 2021 04:26 wrote:Well, if we can't trust "Alex Gutentag," who can we trust?


That's a very substantive rejoinder.


I have risen in an effort to be equal to the quality of such a well-sourced opinion and honest report by a leading tastemaker who definitely isn't using a very made up name and is very much who they claim to be and surely represents free thinking and not blind adjerence to a new Truth that only sheeple and bootlickers would dare question.
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:15 am

.
Do you offer anything at all beyond vapid, non-substantive drive-by commentary on this topic? Or do you enjoy making yourself look like an utter fool? If you had any merit at all you'd be ashamed of your output here.

Alex Gutentag -- or more precisely, Alexandra Kyra Ryan-Gutentag -- is a REAL NAME. She is a REAL PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER in Oakland, California.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salar ... -gutentag/

You simply conjure up statements -- presented as proclamations -- out of thin air without a hint of due diligence, eh? I'd expect no different given your output here, of course.

(Telling -- and not surprising -- that you're quick to question the authenticity of a single individual, expressing herself with no apparent financial gain, but not the merits of the claims put forth by establishment news/govts/bureaucratic entities, all experiencing significant gains from perpetuating falsehoods and fear. So many tools like you out there)

Millions of lives and livelihoods have been devastated due to outright lies and crimes against humanity as you double-down on stupidity and false claims.

What else can you be called but a trite asshole?

All that aside, you've yet to counter ANY of the content in the piece she authored, which as mentioned previously, is corroborated by links to establishment press articles, science journals, and CDC-sourced content.

Address the content itself or STFU already.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:53 pm

"Oakland, CA? Obviously, there's no there there."
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:09 pm

Gutentag's essay is one of the most concise rundowns I've seen, and refreshingly devoid of the histrionics that such material tends to bring out in us.

I have been very surprised in recent months how broadly people are questioning what, precisely, in the fuck just happened to them over the previous 18 months. I am looking forward to someone more motivated, and connected, doing a deep dive into the political and social dynamics that led to "shelter in place" alerts that blossomed into the Lockdown Consensus. It is a strange thing and an alarming social experiment because it creates a precedent that will inevitably be abused again, soon.

In the policy circles I am privy to I was stunned to see detailed discussions in late May / early June on the "political capital" problems of implementing another round of lockdowns this summer. In fucking July. Despite that advance notice, I was equally stunned to see test balloons and media interviews floating it over the past week.

My only means of making sense of this, at the moment, is that it is a rhetorical gambit to make Lockdown 2.0 seem more reasonable this fall. "We tried to tell you this was necessary, but the public didn't want to hear it. Now that case counts are exploding again..."

And, inevitably, they will. Seasonal variation has created a massive drop, which is being attributed to vaccines, and seasonal variation will return in September, exacerbated further by the mass exodus/petri dish of students returning to school. That will surely be blamed not on the basic physics at work here, but on "vaccine hesitancy" and moral failures of "red state" subhumans.

Much of what Gutentag outlines is contained right in this very thread, and it is instructive to compare the information we were working with in the first ten pages to the information we have now. The CFR numbers were off by orders of magnitude, many of the horror stories out of China were apparently psyops -- victims turning black, people falling over and dying of seizures in the street or on the job -- but it's even more instructive to focus on how much we had right. It really did involve a joint DOD/CCP bioweapons project, it really was more than "just the flu," and the second order consequences were far more devastating than the virus itself.

And, fitting for the 201st page of this megathread, not only was the genesis of the pandemic many, many months before even the paranoid evangelists like us found out about it, but the timing, lineup and content of the Event 201 drill is inextricably tied to this entire thing. It's kind of stunning how much of this is out in the open, but then again, it also hardly matters. It's positively quaint to look at gentleman monsters like the Dulles Brothers, still worrying about keeping secrets and public outrage. Nobody gives a fuck about state crimes, it turned out. Ralph Baric and Peter Daszak not only still have their jobs, their careers are doing better then ever.

Enjoy your summer as much as you can. Get more sun.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby DrEvil » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:25 pm

Belligerent Savant » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:15 pm wrote:.

...

(Telling -- and not surprising -- that you're quick to question the authenticity of a single individual, expressing herself with no apparent financial gain, but not the merits of the claims put forth by establishment news/govts/bureaucratic entities, all experiencing significant gains from perpetuating falsehoods and fear. So many tools like you out there)

Millions of lives and livelihoods have been devastated due to outright lies and crimes against humanity as you double-down on stupidity and false claims.

What else can you be called but a trite asshole?

All that aside, you've yet to counter ANY of the content in the piece she authored, which as mentioned previously, is corroborated by links to establishment press articles, science journals, and CDC-sourced content.

Address the content itself or STFU already.


So if the contents of the piece are corroborated by the very sources propagating what you claim to be "outright lies and crimes against humanity", does that mean she's full of shit too?

If official sources and mainstream media are all full of shit and lying through their teeth, by extension every argument that uses their information as a source is suspect, but you don't treat it that way. Information you like is solid evidence (look at the scary VAERS numbers!), information you don't like is lies (excess deaths are bogus!).

You either trust them or you don't. If you go around cherry-picking you're just a hypocrite with no interest in honest arguments.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:54 pm

So if the contents of the piece are corroborated by the very sources propagating what you claim to be "outright lies and crimes against humanity", does that mean she's full of shit too?

If official sources and mainstream media are all full of shit and lying through their teeth, by extension every argument that uses their information as a source is suspect, but you don't treat it that way. Information you like is solid evidence (look at the scary VAERS numbers!), information you don't like is lies (excess deaths are bogus!).

You either trust them or you don't. If you go around cherry-picking you're just a hypocrite with no interest in honest arguments.


Clearly some are more deeply brainwashed than others.

Dr. Evil, care to point out EACH AND EVERY INSTANCE that you have an issue with?

A "news story" can have all the facts available but that doesn't mean it's written with a context that presents that data as a reflection of reality.

One of the most basic and simple ways the lazy and complicit "journalists" published their misinformation was using basic math. They often spewed their Orwellian shrill in the context of cases rising by X percentage points. For example:

If 20 people died from what is called "covid" and the day before 15 people died they would shriek like the fear mongering asshats they are that "deaths increased by 25% since last yesterday!"

Oh my god, the sky is falling! A 25% increase!!!!

What the f*knuts didn't mention VERY often was that there were ONLY 20 deaths. This gross misrepresentation of the facts makes it seems as if we the public should be terrified of the big increase. I heard and read dozens of bogus bullshit like this peddled for the past 18 months. This being only one tiny example, but it points out Dr. Evil's case has little merit. IMO

When will you all who have been deeply traumatized and pumped full of fear wake up and realize what the hell is going on here?

Ditto Rex, get sunshine (for natural Vitamin D) and some exercise.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:21 pm

Hat tip for WRex for the cogent retrospective.

In this spirit, here is a post I made in March 2020. It's still relevant:

The spread of COVID-19 is somehow your personal responsibility. Dealing with economic effects of COVID-19 is also your personal responsibility. Unless, of course, you are an oligarch or one of the oligarch handmaidens we call our "government representatives." In that case, you deserve trillions to tide you over through a crisis "nobody could have possibly predicted."

Since at best all we are doing by hiding from our fellow neighbors in the face of any communicable respiratory disease is "flattening the curve" of our population infection rate at the expense of our quality of life and the entire economic livelihoods and financial reserves of millions of individuals, the priority of any rational government would have been to long ago ensure the ability of its healthcare system to respond to the effects of any especially deadly flu pandemic. Had this somehow not been done long ago, the current situation would of course force such steps to be implemented immediately on an emergency basis.

My personal assessment about shelter-in-place regulations for COVID-19 is that this policy, while at least temporarily prudent, is 100% typical of the socialism-for-oligarchs and rugged-individualism-for-working-people political system that all Americans live under. Our entire debate about this issue has been limited to whether we should listen to Democratic "leaders" like Governor Cuomo and Governor Newsom and hide in our houses for the next 18 months while depleting all of our life savings in our desperate efforts to hoard toilet paper or whether we should instead heroically sacrifice our lives in order to keep supplying our cheap labor to further enrich our oligarch bosses' portfolios.

This is perfectly emblematic of the Demopublican choice we are constantly offered at the ballot box. Should average Americans further sacrifice (1) our standard of living and political rights or (2) our very lives to enrich our oligarchs? Depending our exact locality, our political choices have devolved into "risk death to enrich our bosses or starve" or "risk arrest by violating the conditions of our perpetual home imprisonment or starve." We are asked either to join a death-cult that explicitly seeks to sacrifice the lives of millions on the altar of hypercapitalism or an authoritarian cult that demands we sacrifice our economic, social, and privacy rights, as well as our right to assemble and protest, on the altar of "one less" COVID-19 victim. While we debate the Procrustean choice we have been presented, our one Demopublican party is unified only in its rush to use yet another (at least largely) manufactured crisis to open the gates of our treasury to each and every one of our oligarch masters. No Lobbyist Left Behind.

Note that under no circumstance are we allowed to ask our government to do anything significant to help us. No, the onus is instead almost completely on each and every average American struggling to survive. If we can't afford the outrageous cost of health insurance, then that is our fault and we deserve to die. If we can't afford the outrageous cost of housing, that is our fault and we deserve to live in the gutter. If we can't afford the necessities of life, that is our fault because we didn't plan far enough ahead. If we can't earn a living and manage to survive comfortably while hiding away in our houses indefinitely, that is our fault for not having sufficiently prepared for ourselves for the cybernetic dystopian future that Hollywood unceasingly warmed us about. If we contract COVID-19 and get seriously ill or die, that is our fault for interacting with other humans or objects touched by other humans without immediately dipping our hands in the precious cytoplasmic membrane exploding chemicals we should have stockpiled.

On the other hand, our joblessness and the loss of half of our retirement savings and all of our rainy day savings while we weather this storm by hiding at home are nobody's fault because, of course, nobody could have possibly predicted the genesis of a slightly more deadly form of the flu.

The ill effects of this crisis and to a large degree the entire governmental response to this crisis have been offloaded on us by our government leaders to become the personal responsibility of each individual American. The role of our government leaders in this crisis is limited to maximizing their investment returns through their insider trades while arresting any of us who dare breach our personal responsibility to keep our fellow citizens healthy by imprisoning ourselves indefinitely.

However, in reality, this whole situation is roughly equivalent to a corrupt Chicago mayor who tells everyone to stay at home until spring because "nobody could have predicted this bad of a snowstorm" and then proceeds to use this "crisis" to allow his cronies loot the city's treasury.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:22 pm

DrEvil » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:25 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:15 pm wrote:.

...

(Telling -- and not surprising -- that you're quick to question the authenticity of a single individual, expressing herself with no apparent financial gain, but not the merits of the claims put forth by establishment news/govts/bureaucratic entities, all experiencing significant gains from perpetuating falsehoods and fear. So many tools like you out there)

Millions of lives and livelihoods have been devastated due to outright lies and crimes against humanity as you double-down on stupidity and false claims.

What else can you be called but a trite asshole?

All that aside, you've yet to counter ANY of the content in the piece she authored, which as mentioned previously, is corroborated by links to establishment press articles, science journals, and CDC-sourced content.

Address the content itself or STFU already.


So if the contents of the piece are corroborated by the very sources propagating what you claim to be "outright lies and crimes against humanity", does that mean she's full of shit too?

If official sources and mainstream media are all full of shit and lying through their teeth, by extension every argument that uses their information as a source is suspect, but you don't treat it that way. Information you like is solid evidence (look at the scary VAERS numbers!), information you don't like is lies (excess deaths are bogus!).

You either trust them or you don't. If you go around cherry-picking you're just a hypocrite with no interest in honest arguments.


Evil, do you really accept your own edict that we must accept everything or nothing? Really? Have you been present during any of the 20th century? Is 21st century public relations strategy really terra incognita to you?

Have you verified for yourself how much exposure the specific points referenced in the article receive in mainstream versus how much interference and obfuscation they receive from mainstream? Are you really ignorant of how much the mainstream narrative has buried whatever truth's have escaped? Are you really the babe in the woods you want us to believe you are?

Are you really as helpless as you seem?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:30 pm

DrEvil » 30 Jun 2021 18:25 wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:15 pm wrote:.

...

(Telling -- and not surprising -- that you're quick to question the authenticity of a single individual, expressing herself with no apparent financial gain, but not the merits of the claims put forth by establishment news/govts/bureaucratic entities, all experiencing significant gains from perpetuating falsehoods and fear. So many tools like you out there)

Millions of lives and livelihoods have been devastated due to outright lies and crimes against humanity as you double-down on stupidity and false claims.

What else can you be called but a trite asshole?

All that aside, you've yet to counter ANY of the content in the piece she authored, which as mentioned previously, is corroborated by links to establishment press articles, science journals, and CDC-sourced content.

Address the content itself or STFU already.


So if the contents of the piece are corroborated by the very sources propagating what you claim to be "outright lies and crimes against humanity", does that mean she's full of shit too?

If official sources and mainstream media are all full of shit and lying through their teeth, by extension every argument that uses their information as a source is suspect, but you don't treat it that way. Information you like is solid evidence (look at the scary VAERS numbers!), information you don't like is lies (excess deaths are bogus!).

You either trust them or you don't. If you go around cherry-picking you're just a hypocrite with no interest in honest arguments.


We all have to source at least some of our knowledge from at least some official or semi-official sources.

Thus "Do you wholly believe or wholly disbelieve official sources? Answer yes or no!" is a textbook false dichotomy. As such, it is a transparently disingenuous argument (or a mindguarding attempt to stave off cognitive dissonance at best).
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:50 pm

.

Great content from WRex, indeed (and others replying above).

To address DrEvil's half-baked strawman argument, I typed the below back in 2019, on another thread, which is pertinent here (quoted below).

It's amazing this needs to be spelled out, but there is value in establishment press reporting if one applies discernment to their assessment. You are wholly misrepresenting my position.

My primary objection, in simplest terms, is the manner in which so many simply absorb/passively accept information at face value with little, if any, filtering or discernment or due diligence.

This approach can no longer be acceptable, and quite literally, is detrimental to the livelihoods of the majority. Each of you that continue to passively accept narratives as presented are complicit in the aggregate harms it causes to the majority.

Now more than ever.

These affronts to LIFE can only persist so long as the majority accept them.


Belligerent Savant » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:31 pm wrote:.

The objections raised with respect to MSM links in RI aren't with the links themselves, of course, but in the posting of such material at face value, without a hint of scrutiny or suggestion that said material tends to be suspect/littered with mis/disinfo, etc.

On the other hand, mainstream/intel agency-tainted sources can often provide hints of useful information, or minimally, a means for gleaning insight into intent, if parsed with this understanding in mind. It can be valuable to a thread when framed accordingly.

But when presented at face value, it merely acts as the propaganda that it is, which is why it would get frowned upon here in RI. As a group, we know better, or should know better. Unless, of course, the perpetrator is attempting to troll, or is blinded by their bias.

That list you put together can always be expanded, needless to say.

MSNBC (or every network news channnel, for that matter)
Buzzfeed
Emptywheel
Any site backed by Intel operatives, etc.
Many, many others.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Marionumber1 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:18 pm

DrEvil » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:25 pm wrote:So if the contents of the piece are corroborated by the very sources propagating what you claim to be "outright lies and crimes against humanity", does that mean she's full of shit too?

If official sources and mainstream media are all full of shit and lying through their teeth, by extension every argument that uses their information as a source is suspect, but you don't treat it that way. Information you like is solid evidence (look at the scary VAERS numbers!), information you don't like is lies (excess deaths are bogus!).

You either trust them or you don't. If you go around cherry-picking you're just a hypocrite with no interest in honest arguments.


As the previous replies point out, this is not a binary issue where you believe everything or nothing that a source says. It is unreasonable to think that propaganda and disinformation would be fabricated out of whole cloth, as opposed to being based on reality but with critical facts misrepresented to shift the narrative away from the truth in a particular way. With the mainstream press, for instance, it is rare to see stories that are fabricated by the journalists themselves, but they often report stories from official sources that are fabricated and give undue weight to these dubious sources, thus shaping the narrative in a deceptive way while being able to evade claims of outright lying. And when propaganda (such as media publications or state sources) is based on reality in that way, sometimes a little bit more reality than is intended by the purveyors slips in. Carefully reading between the lines of these sources, and collecting the facts that are discarded as irrelevant anomalies, random "coincidences", etc., allows you to assemble a more accurate picture of the world.

Moreover, the concept in the legal field of a statement against interest certainly applies here. If a person makes an admission that is the opposite of self-serving, it is held as more likely to be accurate. So if these official sources are propaganda outlets and still end up releasing information that opposes the false narratives that they are pushing, that information becomes more believable if anything, not less.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:21 pm

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 20167932v4

Objective to review the evidence from studies comparing SARS-CoV-2 culture, the best indicator of current infection and infectiousness with the results of reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR).

Methods We searched LitCovid, medRxiv, Google Scholar and the WHO Covid-19 database for Covid-19 using the terms ‘viral culture’ or ‘viral replication’ and associated synonyms up to 10 September 2020. We carried out citation matching and included studies reporting attempts to culture or observe SARS-CoV-2 matching with cutoffs for RT-PCR positivity. One reviewer extracted data for each study and a second reviewer checked end edited the extraction and summarised the narratively by sample: fecal, respiratory, environment or mixed. ...

Results We included 29 studies reporting culturing or observing tissue invasion by SARS-CoV in sputum, naso or oropharyngeal, urine, stool, blood and environmental samples from patients diagnosed with Covid-19. The data are suggestive of a relation between the time from collection of a specimen to test, cycle threshold and symptom severity. The quality of the studies was moderate with lack of standardised reporting.

Twelve studies reported that Ct values were significantly lower and log copies higher in samples producing live virus culture. Five studies reported no growth in samples based on a Ct cut-off value. These values ranged from CT > 24 for no growth to Ct ≥ 34. Two studies report a strong relationship between Ct value and ability to recover infectious virus and that the odds of live virus culture reduced by 33% for every one unit increase in Ct. A cut-off RT-PCR Ct > 30 was associated with non-infectious samples. One study that analysed the NSP, N and E gene fragments of the PCR result reported different cut-off thresholds depending on the gene fragment analysed. The duration of RNA shedding detected by PCR was far longer compared to detection of live culture. Six out of eight studies reported RNA shedding for longer than 14 days. Yet, infectivity declines after day 8 even among cases with ongoing high viral loads. A very small proportion of people re-testing positive after hospital discharge or with high Ct are likely to be infectious.

Conclusion Prospective routine testing of reference and culture specimens are necessary for each country involved in the pandemic to establish the usefulness and reliability of PCR for Covid-19 and its relation to patients’ factors. Infectivity is related to the date of onset of symptoms and cycle threshold level.

A binary Yes/No approach to the interpretation RT-PCR unvalidated against viral culture will result in false positives with possible segregation of large numbers of people who are no longer infectious and hence not a threat to public health.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:25 pm

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/wha ... ally-mean-

What does a case of Covid-19 really mean?

14 September 2020, 5:00am

In the course of our evidence gathering activities, we have gone through a few thousand papers reporting studies on all aspects of Covid-19 spread. We found that not very many defined a case of Covid, which is a sign of sloppiness when that is what you are looking for. Those that did, reported different definitions and ways of ascertaining what they meant by a ‘case’.

Now this may seem a pedantic academic remark, but in reality, it underlines the chaos which has crept into Covid-19 science and decision-making. After watching the briefing by the Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty on 9th September, where he described his worry about the increase in cases and compared the situation in the UK to other countries, we asked the question: what does a Covid 19 case mean and how do different nations define a case? We looked at the definition of a case given by the World Health Organisation, the US and EU Centres for Disease Control, China, Italy, Spain, France. We only tapped official websites, and what came out was a concoction that did not smell like the Bard’s rose.

All the details can be accessed here, but let’s stick to three of Professor Whitty’s comparators.

The UK government definition is based on clinical symptoms, and testing is recommended for cases who are well enough to remain in the community. No guidance is given as to how to interpret such a test or any decisions. Interestingly the Public Health England explanation of the methods for counting cases is as follows:

‘If a person has both a negative and a positive test, then only their positive test will be counted. If a person is tested as positive under both pillar 1 and pillar 2, then only the first positive case is counted.’

An asymptomatic person who tested positive could have two confirmatory negative tests, but would still count as a confirmed case. But in Wales, data is deduplicated on 42-day episodes; if someone is tested twice, 43 days apart, they will be included in the case count measure twice.

The UK government’s latest guidance states ‘positive test results at the limit of detection that occur early in the cycle of infection are important as these represent individuals who may go on to transmit infection’. It asks laboratories to ‘determine the threshold for a positive result at the limit of detection based on the in-use assay,’ without stating what the threshold should be. If necessary, the laboratory should request a repeat sample; again, this advice is given without a threshold to guide when to do the repeat test.

We have already written about the inappropriate use of the PCR test as currently used, and the delightful vagueness of the statement is pregnant with consequences. Arbitrary thresholds may be so high that the UK may be heading for perpetual lockdown, as every minute fragment and debris of the coronavirus will count as positive. We deduce that a reported ‘case’ is most probably simply the result of a positive PCR test. The new guidance is meaningless unless it provides a clear threshold for the limits of detection. For many whose test turns up positive, there may be nothing recorded about any clinical symptoms.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:28 pm

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/cov ... we-know-it

Covid-19 and the end of clinical medicine as we know it

When we trained at medical school we were taught to approach each patient on his or her own merits. We were taught to take a history: ask questions about past medical problems, drugs and present complaints; to do a physical examination and make a management plan including those tests that allowed us to narrow the range of possible diagnoses. Treatment was the next option. After we learned to do all this, we were awarded the title of doctor – professionally trained, licensed and regulated to carry out the procedures described. This model of actions which has a long history is called clinical medicine. But what impact has Covid-19 had on this tried and tested way of doing things?

In the last 30 years, clinical medicine has had two important evolutions. The first was the recognition of the primacy of the patient in all our actions. Physicians then become benign agents between the patients and the 'system' giving the best advice possible, reducing uncertainties, and directing action when needed on the basis of interpretation of the complex set of circumstances of each patient. The second is the advent of evidence-based medicine (EBM), or the recognition that any course of action needs to be based on the best available up to date scientific evidence. When there is uncertainty this needs to be communicated to the patient.

Patient-centricity and EBM became swiftly incorporated into clinical medicine. Communication, partnership and teamwork and 'Maintaining Trust' became essential components of Good Medical Practice – the essential guidance that describes what it means to be a good doctor. Effectively interacting with others and ensuring that all concerns are heard and above all ensuring the care of our patients is our first concern. The advent of the Covid-19 pandemic, however, has seen a retreat of clinical medicine, patient centricity and EBM.

Consultations have become more difficult to obtain, and the ignorance of the basics of infectious disease control has seen hospitals transformed into infectious centres with patients fearful of admission or outpatient appointments. Further nervousness amongst patients has been fuelled by mathematical models purporting to forecast the future and mass and inappropriate use of tests which cannot distinguish those who are infectious and require isolation from those who harbour remnants of the infectious agents.


The patient has become a prisoner of a system labelling him or her as 'positive' when we are not sure what that label means. Physicians have been completely bypassed in the biotech decision making machine that now makes and reports the diagnosis.

And what of EBM in all this? The deluge of studies on the previously little studied coronaviruses would point to a prodigious increase in knowledge, but only a few add to our understanding. Many are clearly 'me too' efforts where researchers need to have their name associated with the pandemic. A good example of this is the number of reviews of the evidence on masks published in the last three months – fifteen to our knowledge. Yet, the number of published trials on the effects of masks in Covid-19 transmission is – so far – zero.

Governments are producing a series of contradictory and confusing policies which have a brief shelf life as the next crisis emerges. It is increasingly clear the evidence is often ignored. Keeping up to date is a full time occupation, and the advances of the last 30 years have at best been put on hold.

The duties of a good doctor include working in partnership with patients to inform them about what they want or need in a way they can understand, and respecting their rights to reach decisions with you about their treatment and care. Questions need to be asked as to how this will occur if you don’t see your doctor, particularly if all you have to do is queue in at a drive in to get your answer.

And ultimately what is a 'good test'? We think it’s the test which helps your doctor narrow the uncertainty around the origins and management of your problem.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:30 pm

Marionumber1 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:18 pm wrote:Moreover, the concept in the legal field of a statement against interest certainly applies here. If a person makes an admission that is the opposite of self-serving, it is held as more likely to be accurate. So if these official sources are propaganda outlets and still end up releasing information that opposes the false narratives that they are pushing, that information becomes more believable if anything, not less.


^Beautifully articulated.

Also: Wombat, classic post, thanks.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
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Harvey
 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
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