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DrEvil » 28 Mar 2024 20:34 wrote:It's just the same tired old deniers with the same tired old arguments (same director as The Great Global Warming Swindle mentioned in the OP). Willie Soon, Roy Spencer, $contrarian_old_white_guy_with_vaguely_relevant_degree_#124, etc. That the premiere was sponsored by the CO2 coalition and the Heritage Foundation should be a big hint what's in store. I know you're not a fan of skepticalscience, but they have a list of 25 bogus claims made in the movie here: https://skepticalscience.com/climate-th ... myths.html
It's the same damn things these same damn people have been harping on about for over two decades now. There was more CO2 in the past! It's good for plants! It's the sun! It's cosmic rays! Clouds! Bad models!
At least get some new arguments every now and then. Just repeating the same old stupid bullshit over and over again won't make it any more true, no matter how much money the oil industry throws their way.
Belligerent Savant » Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:21 am wrote:.
Hold on, I believe I finally get it. You're a parody account! It all makes sense now!
Well, if you're going to do parody, you gotta get it right. Contrary to your satire above, what's actually been blared (across media outlets everywhere, with immense backing/funding) for the last ~couple decades is the tripe about human-generated CO2 having a significant impact on 'climate change' (up until recently it was called 'global warming', though that canard can no longer sustain itself).
The portion of your bit downplaying "bad models" can't really pass muster anymore, because, well... bad models (among other far more nefarious tactics) are precisely what were utilized in ~2020 to pull off the egregious covid-related scams! Yea, you see: nowadays, in 2024, even the 'mainstream media' and dominant narrative scientists are minimally acknowledging the deep harms and failures of lockdowns that were imposed en masse due to -- among other factors -- grossly inaccurate models.
And then, of course, there's the FACT that climate-related models have been proven wrong, repeatedly, going back to the 70s (back when they were going with the 'global cooling' farce).
So yea. 'Bad Models' are, alas, actually a pervasive thing. A critical component of the doctrines put forth by 'The Science' cultists and high priests. Clouds, are, in fact, a factor in temperature fluctuations. Among so many other factors too obvious to ignore any more Re: 'alarm'-related scams.
Too obvious to ignore for those who endeavor to apply objective reasoning to this topic. The zealots/dogmatists of 'Climate Alarm', on the other hand, many of whom ironically call themselves "atheists", will continue to worship at the altar of 'The Science' (and the faulty data + propaganda that go along with it).
Parody! Love it. Golf clap to you, sir.
stickdog99 » Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:17 am wrote:DrEvil » 28 Mar 2024 20:34 wrote:It's just the same tired old deniers with the same tired old arguments (same director as The Great Global Warming Swindle mentioned in the OP). Willie Soon, Roy Spencer, $contrarian_old_white_guy_with_vaguely_relevant_degree_#124, etc. That the premiere was sponsored by the CO2 coalition and the Heritage Foundation should be a big hint what's in store. I know you're not a fan of skepticalscience, but they have a list of 25 bogus claims made in the movie here: https://skepticalscience.com/climate-th ... myths.html
It's the same damn things these same damn people have been harping on about for over two decades now. There was more CO2 in the past! It's good for plants! It's the sun! It's cosmic rays! Clouds! Bad models!
At least get some new arguments every now and then. Just repeating the same old stupid bullshit over and over again won't make it any more true, no matter how much money the oil industry throws their way.
Of course, it's immediate and totally reflexive attack the messenger and "consensus" pre-bunking to the rescue!
These people should all be put in jail just for questioning our sacred climate models!
... for the last ~couple decades is the tripe about human-generated CO2 having a significant impact on 'climate change' (up until recently it was called 'global warming', though that canard can no longer sustain itself).
DrEvil wrote:That the premiere was sponsored by the CO2 coalition and the Heritage Foundation should be a big hint what's in store.
DrEvil » 30 Mar 2024 18:38 wrote:stickdog99 » Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:17 am wrote:DrEvil » 28 Mar 2024 20:34 wrote:It's just the same tired old deniers with the same tired old arguments (same director as The Great Global Warming Swindle mentioned in the OP). Willie Soon, Roy Spencer, $contrarian_old_white_guy_with_vaguely_relevant_degree_#124, etc. That the premiere was sponsored by the CO2 coalition and the Heritage Foundation should be a big hint what's in store. I know you're not a fan of skepticalscience, but they have a list of 25 bogus claims made in the movie here: https://skepticalscience.com/climate-th ... myths.html
It's the same damn things these same damn people have been harping on about for over two decades now. There was more CO2 in the past! It's good for plants! It's the sun! It's cosmic rays! Clouds! Bad models!
At least get some new arguments every now and then. Just repeating the same old stupid bullshit over and over again won't make it any more true, no matter how much money the oil industry throws their way.
Of course, it's immediate and totally reflexive attack the messenger and "consensus" pre-bunking to the rescue!
These people should all be put in jail just for questioning our sacred climate models!
I'm fine with shooting the messenger when they've been caught repeatedly lying and twisting the truth, and are being funded by the people who stand to lose the most. They're not messengers, but propagandists. Fuck'em. Why is it so hard to find some honest skeptics?
Elvis » 31 Mar 2024 18:36 wrote:DrEvil wrote:That the premiere was sponsored by the CO2 coalition and the Heritage Foundation should be a big hint what's in store.
This tells us all we need to know about this piece of industry propaganda.
The regurgitation of fossil-fuel industry propaganda here is disturbing.
The lack of openmindedness of anyone of either side of this...
DrEvil » Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:17 am wrote:Also, can I just point out the irony of you writing this:... for the last ~couple decades is the tripe about human-generated CO2 having a significant impact on 'climate change' (up until recently it was called 'global warming', though that canard can no longer sustain itself).
... immediately followed by a table from the IPCC report saying the opposite. You can't even stay consistent for twelve hours.
Do you believe that the existential climate crisis we face justifies any and all authoritarian enforced austerity measures for regular people? If not, where do you draw the line?
I guess you would say that, in the context of 2024, I’m a Covid hawk. Maybe? It’s hard to say. I’m four-times vaccinated. (Pfizer, if you’re curious.) I have never regretted those decisions for a moment, in part because I’m willing to read the data and I’m not a deranged conspiracy theorist. I believed that the lockdowns were an appropriate temporary measure given the state of things at the time. I was perfectly happy to wear a mask during mask mandates, though I felt it was kind of nutty that some people insisted on masking outdoors or when they were alone in their own private car. In hindsight we perhaps should not have pushed vaccine mandates on the young and healthy, given what we now know about their risk profile, but public officials were making difficult decisions in the middle of a disaster. I think Covid was obviously a very deadly disease, even though it only killed a very small portion of the people who got it, and I agree with those that say there’s been a disturbing memory-holing going on with regards to a global pandemic that killed millions. It was a very big deal. I do, however, think it’s “was” and not “is.” Because the data tell us the pandemic is a past-tense phenomenon. And I think it’s crazy to suggest that that’s offensive to say.
I guess I should say that I’m part of the very slim portion of the population that believes that the world’s establishment governments and the United States specifically did a pretty good job managing an unprecedented pandemic. On one side, increasingly emboldened, are the hordes of right-leaning people who insist that Covid was a minor illness, that the vaccines were poisons ginned up by Bill Gates and Big Pharma to defraud the public, and that various restrictions on movement and behavior were simply a tool of leftist control. They think every death that occurs, anywhere, ever, is proof of the danger of the vaccines. On the other, increasingly obstinate, are the Covid dead-enders, the left-leaning types who have not been in a public place since March of 2020, who continue to douse their houses with anti-bacterial soap, who believe that the next big outbreak is mere days and way and who (and I am not exaggerating) think that we should today, in 2024, have lockdown policies in place as aggressive as those under China’s Zero Covid policy. (If you think I exaggerate, take five minutes to look around in the online spaces of the Covid ultra-hawks and see for yourself.)
At some point in the blogosphere days, “both sides” constructions became so thoroughly satirized that employing one is now déclassée, but I must: it is indeed the case that when it comes to Covid, there are crazies on either side of our culture war divide. I invite you to peruse the subreddits for people with ongoing extreme fear of Covid. I feel sympathy for those people, but it’s a sympathy derived from the fact that many of them seem to clearly be mentally ill.
I’m not suggesting that each side is equally destructive, nothing so crude. For one thing, there’s simply far more of the right-wing Covid skeptics than the left-wing Covid shut-ins; after all, there’s a greater personal cost to actually living the extreme Covid-avoidant lifestyle than there is to yelling on the internet about “the jab.” And the conspiracism surrounding the vaccines has become positively surreal, to the point that I fear it’s created the same kind of charged atmosphere that led someone to bring an assault rifle to Comet Ping Pong. The belief that the vaccines have killed vast hordes of people, thanks to guys like the addled omni-conspiracist Brett Weinstein, has grown despite the utter lack of evidence that any such thing has occurred. I had a particularly persistent emailer who kept insisting that I write about this supposed conspiracy, to whom I would just as consistently ask for evidence. His response was always to send me links to obituaries for individual people who had (supposedly) died of cardiac issues, with no proof whatsoever that those deaths were caused by the vaccine. Eventually he produced a crowdsourced spreadsheet, but it was more of the same - these people had named hundreds who had died of various cardiac issues, but not a single one I found could be responsibly attributed to the Covid vaccines.
There have been a few cases of myocarditis that have been linked to the vaccines, but every piece of responsible evidence suggests that they’re incredibly rare. The M.O. of the anti-vaccine cranks, meanwhile, amounts to “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” and to attributing any heart-related death to vaccines, despite the fact that cardiac issues have been the number one cause of death for as long as I’ve been alive. I saw an Instagram post recently that shared the news that former baseball superstar Darryl Strawberry had suffered a heart attack; predictably, many of the top comments suggested that this was the result of “the jab.” Darryl Strawberry is 62 years old; he’s Black, which carries with it higher risks of cardiac disorders; he has by his own admission lived a life filled with substance abuse and general hard living, which raises the risk of heart attack. But, nope - Covid vaccines exist, Darry Strawberry maybe(?) got one, like 800,000+ other Americans every year he suffered a heart attack, ergo he must have been the victim of the vaccines. If there are vaccine skeptics who are more responsible than this, they sure seem uninterested in combatting this kind of absurd reasoning. Nobody in that “movement” seems to have any interest in policing the relentless assertions of death-by-vaccine that crop up without a shred of evidence.
It’s true, though, that there’s also an ongoing kind of liberal denialism about Covid, an addiction to being the only serious people in class, that depends on a refusal to acknowledge that Covid is no longer a pandemic, that we are in most important ways in a post-Covid era. It’s an addiction not just to the fear of Covid but to the purity of the culture war of the height of the coronavirus, when everyone had nothing but time, time in which to yell on Twitter from the usual battle stations. You can see those problems clearly in this newsletter missive from Tom Scocca.
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