Are we all on The List because of being here?

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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby dbeach » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:43 pm

"You Americans are already so afraid of each other in real life, now it's time to be afraid of even communicating on the net...'<br><br>as IF the globalists will spare any nation from their plans which simply put is the make the prison planet.<br><br>level of dissent or importance becomes mute as to who dies and who lives . <br><br>ANYONE who challenges the Herr Hitler Bush<br>or is that Heir Hitler Bush will be microchipped or sentenced to death.<br><br>The recent torture law makes no difference between genuine terrorists and law abiding US Citizens. They are passing laws to protect their wealth and status and to prevent any future criminal prosecution.<br><br>Given of course that the genuine terrorists are really Herr Bush ,his family and CONgress with the crooks on the USSC.<br><br><br><br>The USA is a Nazi occupied nation and has been since the first coup of 11/22/63.<br><br>"You Americans " sounds like a neat way to blame us..and misses that this is a global elite behind Bush and co.and each nation may be at different stages of totalitarianism.<br><br>Russia and Red China remain wild cards <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

dBeach, by "you Americans" I wasn't assigning blame, I was saying that the social isolation and the breakdown of bonds between people seems more advanced in the US than elsewhere.<br><br>Also, the trend towards mega-churches, mega-malls, drive-thru everything and dealing with machines instead of people, from unmanned electronic cashiers in supermarkets to self-serve gas pumps, where you slide your credit card through a machine to pay, have helped to create a nation of strangers.<br><br>Americans have become used to a degree of isolation of the individual that, as far as I know, is truly unprecedented in human history. The extended family has become a vague memory in many cases, while even members of one nuclear family often have minimal contact, neighbours interact on the most superficial levels, if at all.<br><br>All the drinking and meds and other numbing mechanisms don't help either, in creating and maintaining life-long bonds of family or friendship or interdependence in community building.<br><br>With the constant harping on the pedophiles and murderers and lone nuts lurking in the most unlikely places, Americans are probably among the most fearful of each other on earth. <br><br>The isolated individual is a weak individual. <br><br>Community is a survival mechanism, always has been. Not only Americans, but America itself, has become isolated from the global community.<br><br>I think xenophobia and corporate-sponsored propaganda being beamed OUT of the US has created the illusion of communication with the outside world, when in fact, there is very little.<br><br>Anyway. I am too tired to go on, it's getting late. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby Gouda » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:15 pm

At bottom of page: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Declassified Key Judgments of the National Intelligence Estimate "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States" dated April 2006</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>(...)<br><br>Anti-US and anti-globalization sentiment is on the rise and fueling other radical ideologies. This could prompt some leftist, nationalist, or separatist groups to adopt terrorist methods to attack US interests. The radicalization process is occurring more quickly, more widely, and more anonymously in the Internet age, raising the likelihood of surprise attacks by unknown groups whose members and supporters may be difficult to pinpoint.<br><br> * We judge that groups of all stripes will increasingly use the Internet to communicate, propagandize, recruit, train, and obtain logistical and financial support.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2006/nie_global-terror-trends_apr2006.htm">www.globalsecurity.org/in...pr2006.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby Gouda » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:50 pm

alice, your last reminded me of a short essay I know of, which I posted in a new thread called "One nation, under god, indivisible - our State of Disunion". Essay called "Atomic Theories of Society." <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby hava1 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:13 pm

Alicethec, just loved your little essay up there on the americans and re internet warriors ! captures my conclusions on armchair "resistance". only to qualify that internet is an outlet for shut inns, who otherwise would have nothing, and that's somehting. (same as deaf people now being able to use the technology to speak on the phone, etc.).<br><br>Thing is, that since the ptb's KNOW that creating that system of alienation is a prior requirement to their holding power, they start creating it long before the hostile intention is revealed. The next step is to drown the left with money.support and gain control over it, only after these two are achieved, the bad intent is becoming overtly excercised. <br> <br>There is an "american mind" which main characteristic is the need to impose the narrative in any crosscultural encounter, and even to define the boundaries of the otherness/difference and, worse, to control the narrative of the oppressed in her claim for redress/justice. The Imperial mind is everpresent, and prepares the battlefield of the future.<br>However, I would drop the canadians into the same category (north america ?), with some slight difference in shades. the canadian mind is almost defining itself only in reaction to the dominance of the USA, but complementing the hegemony of the north americans, and also in some way complementing the anglo saxon culture altogether. the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>language</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (english) must be infected with some innate need to colonize, or something of gain hold , or gain insight/understanding of everything. <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby 4911 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:13 pm

"...since the ptb's KNOW that creating that system of alienation is a prior requirement to their holding power, they start creating it long before the hostile intention is revealed."<br><br><br>Ah so you know that they know...but did you <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>know</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> that they know that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>you</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> know? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 10/1/06 5:20 pm<br></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby hava1 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:43 am

i don't know that i know what you know i know...duh ?<br><br>Simply stated, me knowing, matters not.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby 4911 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:24 pm

The Bush Torture Bill<br>And Why You<br>Shouldn't Worry<br>By Ted Twietmeyer<br>tedtw@frontiernet.net<br>10-1-6<br><br>Throughout history, one of the main tools used to control the population is fear. In the case of torture, it first starts with the abduction (i.e., state mandated arrest) of someone. Fear is an interesting and complex human emotion. For those left behind, fear is connected with a programmed sense of terror of the unknown. Endless movies with army jack-booted and army-helmeted police have helped plant this fear idea into the American consciousness. A few years ago, word circulated on the web about Guillotines that will be used in camps. However, not ONE photo was ever published or posted of the instrument to be used on any website. Be advised - the following paragraph has graphic descriptions.<br> <br>Let's look at the facts: (Be advised - the following has graphic descriptions.) The use of this execution tool is both a bloody mess each time it's used, and a serious health hazard to camp prisoners AND workers. And for using it to "harvest organs?" It would be useless and here's why. It is inherently non-sterile by its very construction and operation and loaded with bacteria and viruses. Traces of other blood on the blade and the block from previous executions would quickly be picked up by the still-functioning circulation system of the recently executed. The contaminated blood will quickly enter the bloodstream into virtually all of the organs, just before the heart finally stops beating. The end result is that the condemned's organs will be contaminated and of no use to anyone. Organs must be carefully and surgically removed in an operating room environment BEFORE death to prevent clotting and contamination. The patient must be sedated for this. Even then, harvesting an organ and transplanting it is still a risky operation. When blood stops circulating in the body it begins to thicken and clot in the organs.<br>Will they be executing sedated prisoners rushed from the operating room to the guillotine? That makes no sense either. So who will be around to see this execution horror show? Only the camp's prisoners, and they will die before they can tell anyone. So what's the reason or benefit of using this tool in the first place? There isn't one. The rumor was started as a means to strike fear into Patriotic Americans.<br> <br>Should we be worrying that those who annoy the dictator will start disappearing on a wholesale basis, numbering in the hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions? If we look at the bigger picture (of course we're not supposed to do) then we can logically see from the facts that mass abductions of Americans are unlikely. This is nothing more than psychological warfare being used upon an unsuspecting and largely ignorant public. "SHUT UP and O-BEY" like a good slave" is the message.<br> <br>In an old television show episode of "Hogan's Heroes" there was a German officer threatening the entire underground movement with a list of names. One of the characters named Carter inquired of Hogan, "Colonel, why don't we just bump him off ourselves?" Colonel Hogan responded, "because the other ones will start asking questions..."<br> <br>Let's not forget to extend our thanks to millions of Americans for the quick passage of the new military torture act. Its highly embarrassing as an American, that the overwhelming majority of people have simply sat on their butt and FOOLISHLY trusted their congressman to "do the right thing." This shows what effective brainwashing via media and entertainment can accomplish. Regardless, these citizens should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves and WAKE UP. It's quite obvious these same lazy people learned absolutely NOTHING when Patriot Act 1 sailed through Capitol Hill late in the evening, complete with tough questions asked by the few who refused to sign it. And these same Americans did the butt-sit YET AGAIN when the USA Patriot Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 (otherwise known as Patriot 2) extended the reach of Patriot Act 1.<br> <br>Let's look at some real facts regarding the implications of wholesale abduction of Americans for torture and possible indefinite incarceration:<br> <br>1. The US government cannot arrest and detain 280 million, or even 28 million resisting Americans. Less than 1% of the population works for the US government. A far smaller percentage of that number are in the military. If people start disappearing in public or even covertly at night, those left behind WILL start asking questions. People would tie up the government in lawsuits and class action challenges for time and eternity. At some point, a revolt would start that they couldn't stop. Think about this - if US forces can't maintain control over a small, desert country like Iraq with almost all of our soldiers over there - how could they ever maintain totalitarian control of America AND manage the two current mid-east wars and possibly a third war with Iran - all at the same time? That's beyond reason. Remember "The Wolverines" in the 1980's movie "Red Dawn?" The film provided an excellent, realistic portrayal of how a tiny group of teenage Americans made life a living hell for an invading Soviet-Mexican force and how the "insurgency" won in the end - just like in Iraq.<br> <br>Now imagine what only 40 million well armed and angry Americans could accomplish. And when gun confiscation starts? You can be sure millions of Americans won't turn them in.<br> <br>2. The USA has 3,537,438 square miles (according to the US Census bureau.) Let's use a total figure of approximately 500,000 men and women in the US Armed forces today. That equates to about .14 soldiers per square mile. Yes, POINT-ONE-FOUR soldiers to patrol each square mile. Yet there are an average of 79.6 citizens/square mile in America as of 2005, according to the US Census Bureau. [2] We can see the armed forces are already seriously out-numbered by ordinary citizens!<br> <br>However, the percentage of US forces available to force America into a strict police state is far smaller because:<br> <br>a. A large percentage of the military are in the Navy, and are not trained as infantry or know how to fight in cities. Based on ships at sea, these men and women cannot patrol cities.<br>b. Another large percentage of those in the military are for materiel, ground and technical support. They too, are not trained as infantry. They cannot be re-trained because they are needed to keep vehicles and supplies moving.<br>c. Another large percentage of those in the military are in the Air Force, and were never trained to fight as infantry in cities.<br>d. A large percentage of the military will refuse to fire upon American citizens. Those who responded to the military's survey some years ago with a refusal to do this will most likely be kept overseas. They would be considered a threat to the dictatorship.<br> <br>If we can't secure the Mexican border with a dedicated force there, how can the government ever secure the 3,537,438 square miles of the United States of America?<br> <br>2. The government knows it cannot silence all of its employees. These people will not only ask tough questions, but will also start making statements that expose the tyranny from the inside - especially when one of their loved ones disappears. (When the proverbial "shoe is on the other foot.") There will be hell to pay at some point by the dictatorship for kidnapping and torturing people, whose only crime was to speak out against tyranny. There is the recent expose' by former Navy line officer Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D. who exposed the fact that NO Arabs were aboard flight 77. [1] Dr. Olmsted is living proof along with other soldiers and officers, that not every government employee will shut up and lay down like a good slave. These and countless other good men still love the founding principles of America, just as you and I do.<br> <br>3. Let us not forget the lessons of the French Revolution, where the King and Queen smugly thought they had total control - but they ended up under the blade anyway. Many a dictator throughout history has had their own people turn on them when the people finally reached their threshold of pain. This is often how dictatorships end.<br> <br>4. Under the Patriot Act, family members and friends who know about or see an abduction are forbidden to speak about it. This clause in the Act was clearly and unmistakably meant to cover up a fascist, un-Constitutional action. In no way does it have anything to do with protecting the security of the state. When someone is taken away, the witness has no idea where they will be taken. And the witness certainly will not be told where the person is going, or if they are ever coming back. Just how long can people be intimidated by that?<br> <br>5. To try and silence every witness is both idealistic and absurd. It's illegal to spit on the sidewalk, exceed the speed limit, cross double-yellow lines, ignore stop signs, rob convenience stores and violate countless other laws. Yet tens of millions of people do these things everyday and are never caught! Americans have been brainwashed to believe there is a cop around every corner, just waiting to catch you doing even the smallest thing wrong.<br>Yet video cameras in stores fail to catch criminals when they wear a simple $1.99 ski mask. Do you really believe that every offender is arrested and hauled away whenever a crime is committed? Of course not. But police television shows boast and brag about those they catch - and rarely if ever is a word spoken about the millions of people who get away with countless crimes. The old expression that "crime does not pay" is one of the biggest lies there is - it certainly pays for companies that sell alarm systems.<br> <br>Those who live in other countries who will read this and sit back, feel quite smug and laugh at America. They will yell out "a dictatorship can't happen in my country." Oh, sure it won't...and I have some prime land in the Canadian Tundra you can have cheap, too.<br> <br>None of this of course makes the torture bill acceptable. What it does show however, is that there will be millions of Americans still around to fight this fascist regime that has taken control. And there are thousands working inside the Pentagon that have reached their threshold of pain. One insider told me "They are armed to the teeth and have about had enough." These people won't resign from their jobs and then speak out like cowards do. Instead, they will start resisting this record-breaking tyranny from the inside. This may prove to be the real un-doing of the police state tyranny. The guilty will have no where to hide and will see swift justice take place, and they won't like it. The rest of the world should hope and pray for their actions to come soon - before they receive a police state enema...<br> <br>Ted Twietmeyer<br>www.data4science.net <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby HMKGrey » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:48 pm

Thanks, 4911. Great post. <br><br>I guess my Mom was right about bullies all along: <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Your trouble H. is that you let them bully you because they know you frighten easily." </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby sunny » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:10 pm

A few points.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>A few years ago, word circulated on the web about Guillotines that will be used in camps. However, not ONE photo was ever published or posted of the instrument to be used on any website. Be advised - the following paragraph has graphic descriptions.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Straw man. Never heard that rumor, it is not currently being suggested that guillotines will be used.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>the overwhelming majority of people have simply sat on their butt and FOOLISHLY trusted their congressman to "do the right thing."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Can't argue with that.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>1. The US government cannot arrest and detain 280 million,<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Who said they were going to disappear <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>all</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> of us?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If people start disappearing in public or even covertly at night, those left behind WILL start asking questions.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Operation_Return_to_Sender_Stumbles_0928.html" target="top">Indeed.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->What can be done about it?<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Now imagine what only 40 million well armed and angry Americans could accomplish. And when gun confiscation starts? You can be sure millions of Americans won't turn them in.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The 40 million who are well armed can be convinced that the "disappeared" deserved it.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>a. A large percentage of the military are in the Navy, and are not trained as infantry or know how to fight in cities. Based on ships at sea, these men and women cannot patrol cities.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Remember NOLA and Blackwater?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>2. The government knows it cannot silence all of its employees. These people will not only ask tough questions, but will also start making statements that expose the tyranny from the inside<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>With legislation currently in the pipeline to criminalize whistleblowing, you can be sure their numbers will be small. Who will report their allegations? NBC?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If we can't secure the Mexican border with a dedicated force there, how can the government ever secure the 3,537,438 square miles of the United States of America?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>With the new towers Halliburton will build, manned by Blackwater mercenaries.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>3. Let us not forget the lessons of the French Revolution, where the King and Queen smugly thought they had total control - but they ended up under the blade anyway. Many a dictator throughout history has had their own people turn on them when the people finally reached their threshold of pain. This is often how dictatorships end.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Louis didn't have microwave weapons.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>4. Under the Patriot Act, family members and friends who know about or see an abduction are forbidden to speak about it. This clause in the Act was clearly and unmistakably meant to cover up a fascist, un-Constitutional action. In no way does it have anything to do with protecting the security of the state. When someone is taken away, the witness has no idea where they will be taken. And the witness certainly will not be told where the person is going, or if they are ever coming back. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Just how long can people be intimidated by that?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>A couple of decades, at least, if the history of Latin America is any guide.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>5. To try and silence every witness is both idealistic and absurd. It's illegal to spit on the sidewalk, exceed the speed limit, cross double-yellow lines, ignore stop signs, rob convenience stores and violate countless other laws. Yet tens of millions of people do these things everyday and are never caught! Americans have been brainwashed to believe there is a cop around every corner, just waiting to catch you doing even the smallest thing wrong.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Of course, there will be a few brave resisters. <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What it does show however, is that there will be millions of Americans still around to fight this fascist regime that has taken control.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Damn straight.<br><br> "O Ye that love mankind! Ye that dares oppose not only the tyranny but the tyrant, stand forth!"<br><br>Tom Paine.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby johnny nemo » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:00 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What it does show however, is that there will be millions of Americans still around to fight this fascist regime that has taken control.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Of course, they'll be too busy watching American Idol to do anything, though.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:34 pm

Unless one of 'Them' has the balls to jackboot my door in the middle of the night and blow my daughter's brains out the back of her head in front of me, I don't wanna hear jack shit about how I should be afraid of ANYONE who's paycheck comes out of MY fucking pocket..<br><br>People that are born with an innate sense of right and wrong that identify friends and nieghbors they've known all their lives as a potential terrorist because we discuss what worthless c#cksuckers their bosses are can literally kiss my ass.<br><br>I hope they kill me. I hope they waterboard me, tear my nails off, strap me into a burning chair and finally slam the door of the Iron Maiden on me. If that shuts these assholes up and makes em feel better, then GET YOUR SICK NAZI ASS OVER HERE AND DO IT OR STFU ALREADY..<br><br>Otherwise, I'll stick with the First Ammendment my forefathers died for. <br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://slike.lublana.com/pics/fuck-off952_resized.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>I'm directly descended from John Adams and John Quincy Adams, both former Presidents of this overflowing chamberpot we call The United States, and God forbid they ever rose again to see the fucking travesty we've made out of their blood, sweat and tears.. <p>____________________<br>Wehret den Anfängen</p><i></i>
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hmm

Postby orz » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:47 pm

I'm starting to suspect we're all filed under "don't worry about these guys, they're too busy bickering on the internet to do any harm" <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: hmm

Postby 4911 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:04 pm

"...when you pry my keyboard from my cold, dead hands..." <p></p><i></i>
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Re: hmm

Postby sunny » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:20 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Security forces in Latin America classified and targeted persons on the basis of their political ideas rather than illegal acts.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Condor specialized in targeted abductions, disappearances, interrogations/torture, and transfers of persons across borders. According to a declassified 1976 FBI report, Condor had several levels. The first was mutual cooperation among military intelligence services, including coordination of political surveillance and exchange of intelligence information. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The second was organized cross-border operations to detain/disappear dissidents.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> The third and most secret, "Phase III," was the formation of special teams of assassins from member countries to travel anywhere in the world to carry out assassinations of "subversive enemies." Phase III was aimed at political leaders especially feared for their potential to mobilize world opinion or organize broad opposition to the military states. <br><br>Victims of Condor's Phase III, conducted during the mid-1970s, included Chilean Orlando Letelier--foreign minister under President Salvador Allende and a fierce foe of the Pinochet regime--and his American colleague Ronni Moffitt, in Washington D.C., and Chilean Christian Democrat leader Bernardo Leighton and his wife, in Rome. Condor assassinations in Buenos Aires were carried out against General Carlos Prats, former Commander-in-Chief of the Chilean army; nationalist ex-president of Bolivia Juan Jose Torres; two Uruguayan legislators known for their opposition to the Uruguayan military regime, Zelmar Michelini and Hector Gutierrez Ruiz. In the first two cases, DINA assassination teams "contracted" local terrorist and fascist organizations to assist in carrying out the crimes. A U.S.-born DINA assassin--expatriate Michael Townley--admitted his role in the Prats, Letelier-Moffitt, and Leighton crimes. Clearly, Operation Condor was an organized system of state terror with a transnational reach.<br><br>According to a declassified Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report from 1976, Condor used multinational commando teams made up of military and paramilitary operatives who carried out combined cross-border operations, and testimony from survivors of such operations confirms this. Condor also employed a telecommunications system (Condortel) to coordinate its intelligence, planning, and operations against political opponents. An Argentine military source told a U.S. Embassy contact in 1976 that the CIA had played a key role in setting up <br>the computerized links among the intelligence and operations units of the six Condor states.<br><br>Declassified U.S. documents make clear that U.S. security officers saw Condor as a legitimate "counterterror" organization. One 1976 DIA report stated, for example, that one Condor team was "structured much like a U.S. Special Forces Team," and described Condor's "joint counterinsurgency operations" to "eliminate Marxist terrorist activities." This report noted that Latin American military officers bragged about Condor to their U.S. counterparts. Numerous other CIA, DIA, and State Department documents referred to Condor as a counterterror or countersubversive organization and some described its assassination capability in a matter-of-fact manner. In 1978, for example, the CIA wrote that by July 1976 "the Agency was receiving reports that Condor planned to engage in `executive action' outside the territory of member countries." In fact, the documentary evidence shows that the CIA was fully aware of such capabilities and operations years earlier.<br><br>Known Cases of U.S. Collaboration with Condor<br><br>A key case illuminating U.S. involvement in Condor countersubversive operations was that of Chilean Jorge Isaac Fuentes Alarc=F3n, who was seized by Paraguayan police as he crossed the border from Argentina to Paraguay in May 1975. Fuentes, a sociologist, was suspected of being a courier for a Chilean leftist organization. Chile's Truth and Reconciliation Commission later learned that the capture of Fuentes was a cooperative effort by Argentine intelligence services, personnel of the U.S. Embassy in Buenos Aires, and Paraguayan police. Fuentes was transferred to Chilean police, who brought him to Villa Grimaldi, a notorious DINA detention center in Santiago. He was last seen there, savagely tortured.<br><br>Recently declassified U.S. documents include a letter from the U.S. Embassy in Buenos Aires (written by FBI official Robert Scherrer) informing the Chilean military that Fuentes had been captured. Additionally, Scherrer provided the names and addresses of three individuals residing in the United States whom Fuentes named during his interrogation, and told his counterparts in the Pinochet regime that the FBI was conducting investigations of the three. This letter, among others, confirms that U.S. officials and agencies were cooperating with the military dictatorships and acting as a link in the Condor chain. Perhaps most striking is that this coordination was routine (if secret), standard operating procedure within U.S. policy. <br><br>Two of the most explosive discoveries about U.S. links to Condor have emerged in the past few months. First is a 1978 Roger Channel cable from Robert White, then Ambassador to Paraguay, to the Secretary of State, discovered by this researcher in February 2001. This declassified State Department document links Operation Condor to the former U.S. military headquarters in the Panama Canal Zone.<br><br>In the cable, White reported a meeting with Paraguayan armed forces chief General Alejandro Fretes Davalos. Fretes identified the Panama Canal Zone base of the U.S. military as the site of a secure transnational communications center for Condor. According to Fretes Davalos, intelligence chiefs from Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay and Uruguay used "an encrypted system within the U.S. telecommunications net[work]," which covered all of Latin America, to "coordinate intelligence information." In the cable, White drew the connection to Operation Condor and questioned whether the arrangement was in the U.S. interest--but he never received a response.<br><br>The Panama base housed the headquarters of the U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM), the U.S. Special Forces, and the Army School of the Americas (SOA), among other facilities, during most of the Cold War. Tens of thousands of Latin American officers were trained at the SOA, which used the infamous torture manuals released by the Pentagon and the CIA in the mid-1990s. Latin American officers trained in Panama have confirmed that the base was the center of the hemispheric anticommunist alliance. One military graduate of the School said, "The school was always a front for other special operations, covert operations." Another officer, an Argentine navy man whose unit was organized into kidnap commandos ("task forces"<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> in 1972, said the repression was part of "a plan that responded to the Doctrine of National Security that had as a base the School of the Americas, directed by the Pentagon in Panama." A Uruguayan officer who worked with the CIA in the 1970s, said that the CIA not only knew of Condor operations, but also supervised them.<br><br>The second astonishing piece of recently-released information is the admission by the CIA itself in September 2000 that DINA chief Manuel Contreras was a CIA asset between 1974 and 1977, and that he received an unspecified payment for his services. During these same years Contreras was known as "Condor One," the leading organizer and proponent of Operation Condor. The CIA never divulged this information in 1978, when a Federal Grand Jury indicted Contreras for his role in the Letelier-Moffitt assassinations. Contreras was sentenced to a prison term in Chile for this crime, and convicted in absentia in Italy for the Leighton attack. The CIA claims that it did not ask Contreras about Condor until after the assassinations of Letelier and Moffitt in September 1976. This assertion is hardly credible, less so when one considers that the CIA was privy to earlier assassination plans by Condor. Moreover, the CIA helped organize and train the DINA in 1974, and retained Contreras as an asset for a year after the Letelier/Moffitt assassinations. The CIA destroyed its file on Contreras in 1991.<br><br>Michael Townley's relationship to the CIA is also murky. Townley turned state's evidence in the Letelier/Moffitt assassination trial, served a short sentence, and then entered the Witness Protection Program. In Chile, Townley had said that he was a CIA operative, and so did the attorney who defended the accused Cuban exiles in the Letelier/Moffitt assassination trial in the United States. In fact, declassified documents show that Townley was interviewed by CIA recruiters in November 1970 and was judged to be "of operational interest as a possible [phrase excised] of the Directorate of Operations in 1971." The memo carefully states, however, that the "Office of Security file does not reflect that Mr. Townley was ever actually used by the Agency." A separate affidavit states that "in February 1971, the Directorate of Operations requested preliminary security approval to use Mr. Townley in an operational capacity." Townley had close ties to the U.S. Embassy and to high-ranking Foreign Service officers, who knew of his ties to the fascist anti-Allende paramilitary group Patria y Libertad. The question that must be asked is whether Townley and Contreras were acting independently, or as CIA agents in Condor planning and operations.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.crimesofwar.org/print/onnews/condor-print.html">www.crimesofwar.org/print...print.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Did Pinochet say "Leave those peasants alone, they are too busy trying not to starve" ??<br><br>What about the disappeared of Guatamala? Were those children too busy playing to be noticed?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://humanrights.jrn.msu.edu/articles/99conference/portbart.htm">humanrights.jrn.msu.edu/a...rtbart.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Six weeks later, my sister-in-law, her two young children - babies really - and I arrived from our hometown to my father's home in the capital to celebrate my nephew's birthday, only to discover that my 70-year-old father had been kidnapped from his former place of work and that my stepmother, my 18-year-old sister-in-law, my 18-month-old baby sister and my two daughters had been kidnapped and disappeared in operations carried out by the national police, the military police, the Guatemalan army and the secret police. They have never been seen or heard from again. They remain part of that long, long list of men, women and children who disappeared in Guatemala.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The US was/is intimately involved in the intrigues and disappearances in Latin America. Will they hesitate to do the same here? Hell no.<br><br>We must face the truth. I AM NOT SAYING SHUT UP. In fact, it is vital for humans of integrity to speak out, often and loudly.<br><br>What shall we do? Aknowledge it can happen here, and then try to arouse the people.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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