Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Jerky » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:59 pm

I didn't know this before now, and now I DO know this.

Jeez, what do you know? An informative MacC post! Hen's teeth!

If only anyone here truly gave a shit about Cathy Newman (or knew who she was before she became a Peterson-adjacent meme), then it might even be RELEVANT!

J.

MacCruiskeen » 21 Mar 2018 18:17 wrote:For non-Brits, or for anyone who may have missed this three years ago: Here's some essential context & background to Peterson`s now-viral Channel 4 interview with the notorious Cathy Newman:

Channel 4 News presenter Cathy Newman apologises and quits Twitter after being rapped by bosses over her claims of being 'ushered out' of a mosque

-Newsreader visited Islamic centre in south London for community day
-She then said on Twitter that she had been 'ushered out' of mosque
-It later emerged she had gone to wrong place and was sent to other centre
-CCTV showed her leaving the mosque alone after a few seconds inside
-Today she apologised for her 'inappropriate' comments and quit Twitter
-Mosque hits out at presenter saying her actions 'endangered congregation'

By Richard Spillett for MailOnline
PUBLISHED: 11:57 GMT, 12 February 2015 | UPDATED: 15:31 GMT, 12 February 2015


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... PNQojUaook
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:56 pm

JackRiddler » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:31 pm wrote:I'm game. I expect you know more about them than I.


I doubt I know more than you but I know a maybe passable amount, or so I like to think, about some very niche little aspects. Better response tomorrow maybe.

For now, this is worth a look: Jordan Peterson on DMT/Psilocybin.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:48 pm

Yes, I know that C. Newman offered a strawman for JP fans in some interview. The material you posted has nothing to do with that, however. It doesn't matter how many dumb things CN does elsewhere, none of them are relevant to arguing for JP, it's about some other dumb thing she once did, who the fuck cares in the present discussion. The use of drone images and bombing-supporters who might not like JP also has nothing to argue for or against JP. (Do we have a JP statement on "war on terror" and those protesting it, by the way? I don't know, but I bet it might disappoint you.)

Meanwhile, in the last few pages you've had nothing to say about JP's actual words and thoughts, which repeatedly state that young people should shut the fuck up about capitalism and other junk they protest and that men are naturally the leaders of women. He also threatened to create an app that alerts students against "postmodernist" professors, whom he would like to see fired or defunded, thus advocating something worse than the censorship he pretends his ilk are tyrannized by. Your "defense" of him is to trot out irrelevant facts about other people we don't like.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Jerky » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:17 pm

Perfect response is perfect.

JackRiddler » 22 Mar 2018 17:48 wrote:Yes, I know that C. Newman offered a strawman for JP fans in some interview. The material you posted has nothing to do with that, however. It doesn't matter how many dumb things CN does elsewhere, none of them are relevant to arguing for JP, it's about some other dumb thing she once did, who the fuck cares in the present discussion. The use of drone images and bombing-supporters who might not like JP also has nothing to argue for or against JP. (Do we have a JP statement on "war on terror" and those protesting it, by the way? I don't know, but I bet it might disappoint you.)

Meanwhile, in the last few pages you've had nothing to say about JP's actual words and thoughts, which repeatedly state that young people should shut the fuck up about capitalism and other junk they protest and that men are naturally the leaders of women. He also threatened to create an app that alerts students against "postmodernist" professors, whom he would like to see fired or defunded, thus advocating something worse than the censorship he pretends his ilk are tyrannized by. Your "defense" of him is to trot out irrelevant facts about other people we don't like.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:39 pm

Strong team you're assembling there, Jack. With moral, political and intellectual allies like the aptly-named Jerky, who needs cancer? No wonder the American left is in such terrific shape.

JackRiddler » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:48 pm wrote:Yes, I know that C. Newman offered a strawman for JP fans in some interview. The material you posted has nothing to do with that, however. It doesn't matter how many dumb things CN does elsewhere, none of them are relevant to arguing for JP, it's about some other dumb thing she once did, who the fuck cares in the present discussion. The use of drone images and bombing-supporters who might not like JP also has nothing to argue for or against JP. (Do we have a JP statement on "war on terror" and those protesting it, by the way? I don't know, but I bet it might disappoint you.)

Meanwhile, in the last few pages you've had nothing to say about JP's actual words and thoughts, which repeatedly state that young people should shut the fuck up about capitalism and other junk they protest and that men are naturally the leaders of women. He also threatened to create an app that alerts students against "postmodernist" professors, whom he would like to see fired or defunded, thus advocating something worse than the censorship he pretends his ilk are tyrannized by. Your "defense" of him is to trot out irrelevant facts about other people we don't like.


1.
Yes, I know that C. Newman offered a strawman for JP fans in some interview. The material you posted has nothing to do with that, however. It doesn't matter how many dumb things CN does elsewhere, none of them are relevant to arguing for JP, it's about some other dumb thing she once did, who the fuck cares in the present discussion.


I care. And it does matter what "dumb" (sic) things she does elsewhere. She is a prominent, well-paid mercenary hack (a household name in the UK) who lied about having been manhandled out of a mosque when no such a thing ever happened. She told this shabby self-serving dangerous lie in the full knowledge that it was a lie, and right in the middle of the UK's latest Terror Scare, while Muslim women were having their headscarfs torn off in the street, and while the UK was supporting NATO and the US in the ongoing campaign to destroy every independent state in the so-called Middle East. It is not irrelevant that Cathy Newman is still in a job, and that they wheeled her out as The Voice of Liberal Reason to contend with an alleged Peril to the West such as J. Peterson. She got her arse handed to her on a plate, of course, just as Paxman did when trying to perform the same task with Brand. Because neither of those men are fools or cowards.

Enough about her. But kindly stop pretending, at long last, that she has fuck-all to do with why Peterson's popularity increased massively -- not just in the UK, but worldwide -- after that excuse for an interview went viral on YouTube and elsewhere. As soon as you stop pretending about her, I'll shut up about her, and very happily too.

2.
The use of drone images and bombing-supporters who might not like JP also has nothing to argue for or against JP.


Why are you pretending, again, to be far stupider than you are? What you call "drone images" were two photos, neither of them photos of drones, from the so-called Vietnam "War" -- an invasion and occupation of that distant peasant land, in which the US, following France, slaughtered around 2,000,000 Vietnamese men, women and children while suffering a total loss of around 50,000 professional and conscripted soldiers on their own side. To anyone reading and responding in good faith, it must have been perfectly obvious why I posted those photos, which were not photos of drones: I posted them, and wrote what I wrote (which you completely & wilfully ignored) because Jordan Peterson has fuck-all to say about any of it, although he pretends to have noticed and diagnosed all the great evils of the 20th century. Anyone listening to him might think that nothing truly bad had happened in or been done by The West™ before Kristallnacht (1933) or after Mao's death (1976), to say nothing of the four decades in between.

There are many things I could call that travesty of recent history, but I choose here, using Peterson's own terms, to call it adolescent. It is a disgrace to any educated adult, never mind one tasked with educating the young.

3.
(Do we have a JP statement on "war on terror" and those protesting it, by the way? I don't know, but I bet it might disappoint you.)


Why on earth should you think that I'd be disappointed? Seriously. I know of no such statement from Peterson, but I am more than happy to make a confident prediction about what he will say about the "war on terror", if he's ever asked to: He will mutter some adolescent crap about "Conspiracy Theories", he will lament the deadly immaturity of the Nineteen Deathloving Superstudents, he will smirk sadly and wisely and oldly, and then he will deflect the discussion on to the sins, real or alleged, of Stalin, Hugo Chavez, and Jeremy Corbyn. In this -- this mélange of wilful ignorance, smug superciliousness, conformism, careerism, and profound moral cowardice -- he will differ not one iota from close to 100% of those Americans who identify as [cue drumroll] Leftists. If you don`t believe me, try asking David Corn, the corpse of Alexander Cockburn, or the fresh young new wave of arseholes at VICE or Chapo Trap House. Try asking any one of the self-identifying Leftists (of any nationality) who either ruthlessly shat on you or prudently ignored you while you were struggling for years to have 9/11, the Universal Casus Belli, exposed as the shabby lie that it is.

- I'm pushed for time here. Enough.

edit:typos
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Jerky » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 pm

I'm not "left", I'm anti-Right.

Anyway, BIG SLOPPY WET KISSES to you, Mac!

Love,
yer old pal forever and always JERKY
(who picked his own nick-name, so constantly attempting to shame him by invoking it seems like a pretty stupid plan of attack, seems to me)!
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:53 pm

So what's the issue here? I don't get it.

Also, okay, C. Newman is a household name in the U.K. Didn't know that, had never heard of her before, am unlikely to ever hear of her again. Obviously I'd heard of Peterson years ago, even before the actual incident that amped him up into the celebrity charts. (So it wasn't her. That's just his fans going nuts over another Win for Team JP. It was the video of that campus protest -- again a case of people with poor argumentative skills and no sense of what they are looking like to third parties providing him with an easy foil. He does show emotional discipline in debate, the one thing I'd like to borrow from his repertoire.) Since you seem to cotton to what Peterson is really about ideologically, I don't see you making the mistake of assuming every target of the corporate-state propaganda machinery (and its invariably sophistic tactics) must be a good guy or have Something Very Important to Say. (In fact, some "targets" are merely targeted to build them up into Heels for the perpetual wrestling show, as was the case with Trump back when they gave him two years of free prime media.)

We don't like C. Newman (though I barely know her) and it seems we don't like JP, either. So what's this contention here about? Otherwise, I'd say JP is currently the bigger global star saying fucked up things and encouraging bad elements. If Jerky wants to agree with something I said, I'll confess it doesn't creep me out the way it does when it happens with Sounder or karmamatterz. But even then, it's fine. One can agree with one of many things I say, or disagree, and even I find it perfectly alright when JP says one should stand up straight (if they can) and clean up their room. But why you wanna make this a local flame thing, anyway? I prefer to just be taken for my own comments, not third-party agreement. However, I did misremember the explosion you posted on the prior page as a different atrocity. Sorry about that. It would have been hard to guess the relevance as you explain it.

.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby guruilla » Thu May 10, 2018 12:40 pm

I'm doing a series on JBP. I consider him the 50% man. He asks the right questions but gives the wrong answers. He says No to the right things, and Yes to the wrong ones.

Intolerable Ambiguity: Jordan Peterson and the Problem of Prematurely Articulated Order (1 of 2)

Intolerable Ambiguity: Jordan Peterson and the Problem of Prematurely Articulated Order (2 of 2)

If You Meet Jordan Peterson on the Road, Kill Him (Answer to Jordan Intro)

RI-related, video I did:

It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby overcoming hope » Thu May 10, 2018 3:22 pm

I have watched a dozen or so lectures from Peterson and he is mildly interesting. Some of the things he says about protests never being useful or a good idea just made me think, really? never? not once? in the history of planet earth? Some broad strokes there! A few times I hear him bring up something like white privilege, and he says yeah it exists so what? Then I notice the applause and reactions from the audience and they seem to me to read that statement as 'white privilege does not exist'. When I read comments from people exclaiming what an incredible genius he is (and why am I reading comments? never the best idea) I cringe. So if I were to ask him a question it would be, 'do you worry that the people listening to you are misinterpreting what you are saying to justify some awful things they think?' Or to put it another way, 'do you feel responsible for large numbers of people misunderstanding your words to justify and enable thoughts and actions that are shitty?'
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby guruilla » Wed May 16, 2018 11:06 pm

JBP just did a talk with this guy Charlie Kirk:



Turning Point USA is an American conservative,[1] right-wing[2] nonprofit organization whose stated mission is "to educate students about true free market values."[3] It was founded on June 5, 2012, by conservative activist Charlie Kirk.[1] Its website says it has more than 350 chapters.

Since 2016 Turning Point USA has maintained a Professor Watchlist that lists college professors it alleges discriminate against conservative students and advance "leftist propaganda" in the classroom.[4] The organization has also secretly attempted to influence student government elections in an effort to combat liberalism on college and university campuses.[5]

In December 2017, former employees of the organization accused it of engaging in racist practices, as well as potentially illegal involvement in the 2016 presidential election.[6]
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Harvey » Thu May 17, 2018 7:36 pm

Thanks for an interesting thread Mac. Like quite a few others I have no strong feelings about Jordan. He's interesting enough to listen to: knowledge, clarity and penetrating insight jostle with intellectual dishonesty, demonstrably faulty assumptions and quite frankly a fair amount of ideological tosh of his own. Disavowal of ideology is almost always ideology par excellence. I remember my initial reaction to him (last year or the year before) here at RI, that his arguments felt like a sugared pill. I resented the ambient push that I should like him, despite finding his arguments increasingly and frustratingly dishonest. Project Willow identifies his intellectual weakness very capably up thread, it's largely conceptual. Yes he can formulate surprising and interesting questions, as guruilla noted, but I think merely in order to give the answers he gives. The quality of the question is the sugar coat for the bitterness of the ideological component.

I'm comparing my initial response to the channel 4 interview with my observations of the backlash to it and also my reaction just now upon reading that something really bothered you about the interview as well. I was intrigued that something about it seems to have jarred.

For me, the interview itself seems calculatedly worthless. Like a calibrated sales promotion, designed to exploit the various reactionary tendencies of multiple audiences. A broadly anti-media audience were primed with positive familiarity and down the line may even seek him out.

So, why does the big cat usually roll over with it's prey? Because it's nearer to the throat.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby guruilla » Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 pm

It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Heaven Swan » Fri May 18, 2018 7:38 am

Jordan Peterson—smarmy, smug, arrogant—what’s the big deal?

Oh, and welcome back to Guruilla. It’s been a while. :D
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri May 18, 2018 11:35 am

guruilla, that first blogpost in your series is a brilliant piece of writing, the best thing I've yet read about the JP phenomenon. It took some guts to preface it with that funny and touching account of your wife's response to him and your response to her response to him. I look foward to reading the rest, which I'm going to do now.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri May 18, 2018 11:58 am

^^^^^^^
Seconded --- got to most of it last night and plan to read part 2 sometime today, time allowing. Cheers, guru
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