Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

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Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby RocketMan » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:54 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... estigation

The investigation is focusing on how a “suicidal” airline employee was able to steal a plane from Seattle-Tacoma international airport and fly for more than an hour before the crash in which he is believed to have died.

F-15 fighter jets were scrambled to pursue the rogue aircraft after it took off at 7.30pm on Friday and circled south of Seattle before crashing on Ketron Island in the Puget Sound waterway about 25 miles (40km) south-west of the airport. Video footage shows smoke rising from the crash site.

The Horizon Air plane was captured doing large loops and other dangerous manoeuvres. In recorded comments to air traffic controllers, the 29-year-old Seattle-area resident had indicated he intended to crash the plane.
[...]
Air national guard fighter jets based in Portland, Oregon, rushed to the area within minutes of the unauthorized takeoff. Arriving ahead of sonic booms, they tailed the airliner over the Chambers Bay golf course, which hosted the US Open in 2015, before the pilot began turning barrel rolls over the Puget Sound.

“It was unfathomable, it was something out of a movie,” witness Royal King told The Seattle Times. “The smoke lingered. You could still hear the F-15s, which were flying low.”


It's just so goddamned blatant, no?
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:43 am

apparently I was off topic


never mind
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Elvis » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:05 pm

:backtotopic:
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby 82_28 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:29 pm

Yeah, a little curious ain't it? I've been keeping up on comments on other sites. But they were scrambled out of PDX. My brother (an airline pilot) told me that they probably flew at 1500 to 1700 MPH. Would have taken just minutes to intercept. Another commenter said that the Navy and Air Force stayed out of it because it would require full on executive permission. The National Guard or something doesn't have those constraints. Just what I "know" or what I've heard.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:13 am

Officials find human remains in wreckage of crashed plane stolen from Seattle-Tacoma airport


(CNN)The FBI has located human remains in the wreckage of the Horizon Air plane that crashed Friday after it was stolen and flown by an airport worker.

"While the focus of our investigation thus far has centered on Richard Russell, 29, of Sumner, Washington, the FBI is awaiting the results of a review by the Pierce County Medical Examiner's Office," FBI Seattle said in a statement.

Authorities said Russell took off in the stolen plane at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport on Friday night, flew for about an hour with military jets chasing him and crashed the 76-seater on a heavily wooded island.

The flight data recorder and components of the cockpit voice recorder have been recovered and are with the National Transportation Safety Board, according to the FBI.

The man who stole a plane said he didn't need much help: 'I've played some video games'
Russell was the only person aboard, the Pierce County Sheriff's Department said. The Sheriff's Department described Russell as suicidal but did not elaborate.

The Horizon Air plane is unrecognizable, said a NTSB official. The plane went through several 100-foot-high lines of trees and was fragmented from the crash into pieces tiny enough to pick up, NTSB Western Pacific Region chief Debra Eckrote said Sunday.

"You couldn't even tell it was a plane except for some of the bigger sections, like the wing section," Eckrote said. "Even the small sections, most of it doesn't resemble a plane."

The flight data recorder is burned but intact, Eckrote said, and will be shipped tomorrow. It is expected to arrive in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday, she said. Analysis will begin midweek. It is unknown when the full analysis will be completed.

'A complete shock' to the family


The plane crash has left Russell's family devastated.

In a statement, his family said his "intent was not to harm anyone," referring to audio recordings of Russell talking to air traffic control during the flight.
Man who stole plane was kind, funny, family and former colleague say
"This is a complete shock to us," the family said Saturday night. "We are devastated by these events, and Jesus is truly the only one holding this family together right now."

Russell had worked as a Horizon Air ground service agent for 3½ years. His job included directing aircraft for takeoff and gate approach, handling baggage and tidying and de-icing planes.

Russell, or "Beebo" as some called him, was "a faithful husband, a loving son and a good friend," his family said. They also said the 29-year-old was "kind and gentle to each person he met."

Officials don't believe Russell had a pilot's license, and they don't know how he knew to fly the plane. Jeremy Kaelin said he worked with Russell in 2016, and remembered "happy, funny" chats with him in the break room.

"He was a nice guy," Kaelin said. "He was definitely one of the harder working people on the ramps."

Military jets did not bring the plane down


Russell had worked a shift Friday when he took a plane parked in a maintenance area of the Seattle-Tacoma Airport, said Brad Tilden, CEO of Alaska Air Group, which owns Horizon Air.

He used a vehicle known as a pushback tractor to move the empty turboprop plane and took off without authorization at 7:32 p.m. Friday, officials said.

Russell flew for about an hour, talking periodically with air traffic controllers and making turns and even some aerobatic maneuvers as two armed F-15 jets followed him, officials said.

Hear audio from before plane crash
Hear audio from before plane crash 01:12

Video from a witness on the ground shows the plane at one point pulling up for a loop, putting the aircraft upside-down and then pulling back up just feet above a body of water.

The plane eventually crashed on sparsely populated Ketron Island, starting a fire in the woods and killing Russell. No one outside the plane was injured, officials said.

The cause of the crash wasn't immediately known but authorities said the F-15s did not bring the plane down.


Security concerns


The FBI said it does not consider the incident terror-related but the theft of a commercial aircraft from a major US airport has exposed a gap in airline security.

Authorities will try to piece together how a security scare of this magnitude occurred at a major airport.

Stolen plane in Seattle crash prompts airport security concerns
Experts said the crash exposed alarming holes in airport security, and is likely to prompt a major review of industry security measures.

"This is going to be a major learning event for the industry," CNN aviation analyst Justin Green said. "This is a really big deal."

Russell managed to steal the Horizon Air turboprop from a maintenance area by himself. He was in uniform, had proper credentials and had clearance to be in secure aircraft areas, said Tilden, the airline CEO.

"They're credential employees. They're there to work on the airplanes. ... This is aviation in America. The doors of the airplanes are not keyed like a car. There is not an ignition key like a car. The setup in aviation in America is we secure the airfield," Tilden said.

Russell appeared to have broken protocol several times. He shouldn't have been able to board the plane alone and go unnoticed. He also moved the plane by himself while protocol calls for two people to tow an aircraft.

"The fact he was out there by himself, towing the aircraft by himself ... then moving the tracker out of the way, so he could get on the aircraft and move. The fact that all of that happened without even being noticed by anyone on the ground service crew, that is just phenomenal to me," said CNN analyst and former FAA safety inspector David Soucie.

CNN's Josh Campbell, Nicole Chavez, Dan Simon, Jason Hanna, Mark LeBien and Ray Sanchez contributed to this report.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/us/seatt ... index.html
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:06 pm

The transcript of his conversations with air control is fairly amazing:

Rich: I've got a lot of people that care about me. It's going to disappoint them to hear that I did this.

I would like to apologize to each and every one of them. Just a broken guy, got a few screws loose I guess. Never really knew it, until now


Rich: I'm down to 2,100, I started at like 30-something.

Air traffic control: Rich, you said you had 2,100 pounds of fuel left?

Rich: Yeah, I don't know what the burnage, burnout? Is like on a takeoff, but yeah, it's burned quite a bit faster than I expected.

Air traffic control: Right now he's just flying around, and he just needs some help controlling the aircraft.

Rich: Nah I mean, I don't need that much help. I've played some video games before. I would like to figure out how to get this… make it pressurized or something so I'm not lightheaded.

Rich: Damnit Andrew, people's lives are at stake here.

Air traffic control: Ah Rich, don't say stuff like that.

Rich: I don't want to hurt anyone, I just want you to whisper sweet nothings into my ear.


Rich: Hey do you think if I land this successfully Alaska will give me a job as a pilot?

Air traffic control: You know, I think they would give you a job doing anything if you could pull this off.

Rich: Yeah right! Nah, I'm a white guy

Air traffic control: If you wanted to land, probably your best bet is that runway just ahead and to your left. Again, that's McCourt (sic) Field.

If you wanted to try, that might be the best way to set up and see if you can land there. Or just like the pilot's suggestion, the other option might be over Puget Sound, into the water.

Rich: Dang, did you talk to McCourt, cause I don't know if I'd be happy with you telling me I could land like that, cause I could really mess some stuff up.

Air traffic control: Well Rich I already talked to 'em. Just like me, what we want to see is you not get hurt, or anyone else get hurt. So if you want to try to land, that's the way to go.

Rich: Hey I want the coordinates of that orca, you know, the mama orca with the baby. I want to see that guy.


Rich: Hey, is that pilot on? I want to know what this weather is going to be like in the Olympics (mountains).

Air traffic control: Well, if you can see the Olympics, the weather's good. I can see the Olympics from my window, and it looks pretty good over there.

Rich: Alright, 'cause I felt some, what felt like turbulence around Rainer, but there was no clouds hardly.

Air traffic control: Oh, that's just the wind blowing over all over the bumpy surfaces there.

Rich: Just kind of lightheaded, dizzy. Man, the sights went by so fast. I was thinking, like, I'm going to have this moment of serenity, take in all the sights. There's a lot of pretty stuff, but they're prettier in a different context.

Rich: Just kind of lightheaded, dizzy. Man, the sights went by so fast. I was thinking, like, I'm going to have this moment of serenity, take in all the sights. There's a lot of pretty stuff, but they're prettier in a different context.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:58 pm

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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby RocketMan » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:36 pm

What I get from this, and from the recent bridge collapse in Genoa, Italy, if they're in any way comparable... Anyway, what I get is that most of the people, most of the time, highly professional people. try to do good. We ought to remember that. There's a deep humanity in the air traffic control's interactions with the suicidal pilot. As well as in the dumbfounded structural engineers' responses to the Genoa tragedy.

I take great comfort in that.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Grizzly » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:00 am

Military jets did not bring the plane down

The cause of the crash wasn't immediately known but authorities said the F-15s did not bring the plane down.

Yeah, if CNN said it, you know it's a lie. Wait! Putin spoke sweet nothings into his ear, or he was a 'white guy' uh, maybe Beeboski was a Russian!
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby 82_28 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:00 am

He remarked on the beauty of the Olympic Mountains to the controller. I guess he knew what was coming and had to fit it in quick.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby RocketMan » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:51 am

I didn't actually realize that... they could have actually shot him down. Where did the "suicidal" line originate from? Just a supposition I guess.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Cordelia » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:20 pm

RocketMan » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:51 pm wrote:I didn't actually realize that... they could have actually shot him down. Where did the "suicidal" line originate from? Just a supposition I guess.


What I thought right away, being cynical and all about information that comes from media or any organization of over 20 people. But wouldn't witnesses have seen or heard him shot down? Labeling him suicidal (he doesn't 'sound' suicidal, but stupidly reckless--endangering so many and so much!) conveniently explains him away I guess.

Listening to him reminded me of several engaging young men I've known in my life; one just wants the best to turn out for them. Just so sad, really.

A face, to go w/his voice....

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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Grizzly » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:50 am

Why Didn't F-15s Shoot Down the Stolen Sea-Tac Airliner?

Imagescreen capture open source

hxxps://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... liner.html
Military.com 16 Aug 2018 By Oriana Pawlyk

When a rogue civilian airliner took off from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport last Friday, the military responded with a multifaceted, coordinated effort between two F-15 Eagle pilots, said officials at North American Aerospace Defense Command and the Defense Department.

But days after the incident, it remains unclear why military officials and the F-15 pilots agreed not to shoot down the aircraft, given concerns the pilot might deliberately crash it into a populated area.

"We cannot speculate the various considerations and decision-making processes that led to the decision to not shoot, but can confirm that they did not," Air Force Capt. Cameron Hillier, a NORAD spokesman, told Military.com on Wednesday. "While the fighters are armed during intercept missions as part of Operation Noble Eagle, the F-15 has a wide range of response options available, depending on the circumstances. They could shadow, intercept, escort or provide aid as required."

Hillier said officials at NORAD, the Air Force's air operations center, and officials "at many levels," including the Office of the Secretary of Defense, monitored the situation as it unfolded Friday evening.

"Through it all, there was a call not to take the shot," he said. An after-action report is in the works but will not be made public as it is classified, he added.

A Horizon Air employee, later identified as ground service agent Richard Russell, stole the empty aircraft Friday evening, flying it south of Seattle just before crashing into Ketron Island in the Puget Sound, roughly 35 miles south of the airport. Russell, 29, died in the crash.

Two F-15Cs from the Oregon Air National Guard's 142nd Fighter Wing launched in response to the stolen Bombardier Q400 turboprop aircraft, which belonged to Alaska Airlines. The Q400 can seat 76 passengers and four crew at full capacity.

The fighters "were directed to fly supersonic to expedite the intercept," NORAD said in a statement following the incident. The pilots attempted to redirect the aircraft over the Pacific Ocean, it added.

The F-15C can carry a mix of AIM-9L/M Sidewinder short-range air-to-air missiles and AIM-120 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles. It also has one internally mounted 20mm Gatling gun in the right-wing root, according to the Air Force.

The ideal resolution would have been for Russell to land the Q400 at a remote location, Hillier said. "Effort one was to get him on the ground, but the pilot gets a vote in that."

An air traffic controller tried to convince Russell to land at nearby Joint Base Lewis-McChord, according to audio recordings that surfaced on social media. However, he continued flying and performing aerial acrobatics before ultimately crashing.

NORAD said that while the situation at Sea-Tac was "unique," it is tasked with monitoring many intercepts every year as part of Operation Noble Eagle, the operation name for all air sovereignty and defense missions in North America.

"NORAD has conducted more than 1,800 intercepts of non-military aircraft since September 11, 2001," Hillier said. "While the majority of intercepts are conducted in the United States, NORAD focuses on the defense of both the U.S. and Canada and draws on forces from both countries as mission requirements dictate."

-- Oriana Pawlyk can be reached at oriana.pawlyk@military.com. Follow her on Twitter at @Oriana0214
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby RocketMan » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:26 am

"NORAD has conducted more than 1,800 intercepts of non-military aircraft since September 11, 2001,"


Yep. And it's pretty amazing you journalists won't look at what happened with air defence on 9/11. The question left unsaid and hanging is just monumental.
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Re: Seattle suicide plane / 9/11 air defence response time

Postby Cordelia » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:36 am

^^^^ Exactly;

NORAD practice exercise in the early 1960’s

Image

From their 'brief history' page on their website ..
NORAD since 9/11: Response and Transformation

On 11 September 2001, terrorists hijacked four passenger airliners, two of which obliterated the World Trade Center, in New York City, while another shattered part of the Pentagon. One of the four aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania before hitting its target, apparently either the US Capitol or the White House. The event made it clear that attacks on the homeland would not necessarily come only from across the poles and oceans which buffered the North American continent.

http://www.norad.mil/


Oops? :roll:
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