Why I'll Never Support Interventionist Warmonger Obama

[Eldritch]

I hope those of you who live in states with potential McCain victories will be able to sleep at night if the bloodthirsty motherfucker wins. I'll hold you accountable, and I won't let you forget you had a chance to stop him and didn't.

Well, I'm sure THAT will scare the bejeesus out of people.

Funny how you threaten to hold other posters here accountable, but aren't pressing nearly so hard for Obama himself to be held accountable—for his own words and deeds—which threaten his candidacy far more than anyone here possibly could.

Say what? What gave you any indication that I wouldn't be the first to march in the streets if Obama threatened another war? What makes you think I wouldn't hold him accountable, just like I'd hold any other politician accountable?

(shakes head in wonderment)

This is textbook "ProfessorPan"—when lacking a convincing retort about what was actually said, set up a strawman that can be vanquished.

I said nothing about what you "would" or "wouldn't do" in the future. My remarks were about what you "are doing" right now.

(shakes head in wonderment)

[professorpan]

[quote] This whole election thing is a big pile of stage managed dog shit. And anyone who falls for it shouldnt really be wasting their time on a forum like this AFAIC.[/quote

Well, apparently I am wasting my time when it comes to trying to encourage simple actions to STOP JOHN MCCAIN with some folks on this forum. I agree with you on that.

And isn't it convenient when people with humanistic ideals and progressive politics start thinking elections are "a big pile of stage managed dog shit"? Who do you think benefits from that?

[slimmouse]

And isn't it convenient when people with humanistic ideals and progressive politics start thinking elections are "a big pile of stage managed dog shit"? Who do you think benefits from that?

So, those of us who know the truth should ignore it ?

Pretend it aint so ?

Tell me proffy, what do I have to lose by telling you and everyone else on here the obvious truth ?

[chlamor]

This whole election thing is a big pile of stage managed dog shit. And anyone who falls for it shouldnt really be wasting their time on a forum like this AFAIC.[/quote

Well, apparently I am wasting my time when it comes to trying to encourage simple actions to STOP JOHN MCCAIN with some folks on this forum. I agree with you on that.

And isn't it convenient when people with humanistic ideals and progressive politics start thinking elections are "a big pile of stage managed dog shit"? Who do you think benefits from that?

John McCain isn't the problem any more than Barack Obama is the solution.

Rest assured they are both the face of the enemy, unless you are a large corporation or a military contractor. Lend one your support if you must.

All of the cliche's in the 'lesser evil' camp have been worn to shreds and all one need do is ask if it "voting for the lesser evil" is an even remotely sensible position at this point in our history and ask if it is working. If you can look over the last 30 years and say that this strategy is working I would like to see the evidence.

[professorpan]

I hope those of you who live in states with potential McCain victories will be able to sleep at night if the bloodthirsty motherfucker wins. I'll hold you accountable, and I won't let you forget you had a chance to stop him and didn't.

Well, I'm sure THAT will scare the bejeesus out of people.

Funny how you threaten to hold other posters here accountable, but aren't pressing nearly so hard for Obama himself to be held accountable—for his own words and deeds—which threaten his candidacy far more than anyone here possibly could.

Say what? What gave you any indication that I wouldn't be the first to march in the streets if Obama threatened another war? What makes you think I wouldn't hold him accountable, just like I'd hold any other politician accountable?

(shakes head in wonderment)

This is textbook "ProfessorPan"—when lacking a convincing retort about what was actually said, set up a strawman that can be vanquished.

I said nothing about what you "would do" in the future. My remarks were about what you "are doing" right now.

(shakes head in wonderment)

Excuse me for misunderstanding -- I am not trying to set up a straw man, regardless of what you think. And I HAVE held Obama accountable for his words, and I've criticized him here and elsewhere. But I also measure his words, however disturbing, against JOHN MCcNSANE's inflammatory, despicable, warmongering words.

Obama does not joke about incinerating people, or killing them with cancerous cigarettes, nor does he endorse torturing people, as McCain has. McCain does. If that doesn't persuade you that Obama just might be a better human being and a better president, then I really can't say much more.

[professorpan]

Tell me proffy, what do I have to lose by telling you and everyone else on here the obvious truth ?

Sorry, amigo, but your truth smells like cynicism, despair, and nihilism. I don't buy it.

[slimmouse]

Tell me proffy, what do I have to lose by telling you and everyone else on here the obvious truth ?

Sorry, amigo, but your truth smells like cynicism, despair, and nihilism. I don't buy it.

Im looking for an anti war candidate. You and I know both that neither are Anti war.

So whatever else my truth smells of, at least it doesnt smell like a concession to mass murder based upon the usual bullsit by the usual suspects.

I have had lots of cause for despair when talking to people recently.We continue to sleepwalk into a global fascist nightmare whilst having discussions about Obama and McCain, who are 2 heads of the same Hydra

You really dont help any proffy.

[professorpan]

On my drive home from work, I thought of another analogy.

Let's say you are in a dark alley, late at night. When you reach the middle of the alley, you notice two men, on in front of you and one behind you.

The guy behind you, an old, maniacal looking white man, has a knife in his hand. It's covered in blood. A trail of bodies is piled behind him, cut open and bleeding. He's screaming "I'm going to kill more people! Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb IRAN! Death to my enemies!" He sees you, and holds the knife high in the air as he starts to run towards you.

The other guy, at the opposite end of the alley, is a skinny black dude. He's shifty, and he's smiling, but that smile might be a mask. He's reaching under his jacket, where he might have a holstered gun. His eyes don't leave yours -- he seems to have some kind of hypnotic power. You can't shake the possibility that he might be drawing a gun to put a bullet in your head. Then again, he might be pulling a gun to shoot the crazy white guy with the knife.

Both men are moving towards you, at the same rate of speed. You, luckily, have a taser in your pocket, but you can only use it on one of the men before the other reaches you.

I can't imagine any one of you would not try to stop the foaming-at-the-mouth lunatic with the trail of bodies behind him and the knife raised high in his had. He's out for blood, and he's made that clear, and the bodies behind him... maybe some of the them are Vietnamese women and children.

I can't imagine anyone, on this forum or elsewhere, would taser the black man because, well, because he MIGHT be worse.

Yet that's exactly what some of you are suggesting. It's insane.

[vigilant]

It's interesting that there are several folks on the RI board that involve themselves politically through the trashing of Obama.

And yet, they are silent about McCain.

Think about it.

It's a good observation. I think a good reason for that may be that McCain and the Republicans don't expect progressive/anti-war voters to fall in line behind them. Obama and the Democrats do, and hope to be judged on the strength of their electoral rhetoric rather than their enabling and complicit actions of recent years.

If I had a vote, I would give it to Cynthia McKinney, and vote Democratic down the ticket.

That is certainly a move I could support. Anything but the status quo. As long as americans believe the meme that a vote for anyone but the leading democrat or republican is a wasted vote we will indeed have nothing more than the status quo...

Its not the people that vote this way that would give the election to Mccain, its the people that refuse to vote for people they would rather see in office that give the election to people like Mccain and Obama...think about it...its simple math really....and fear....and a lack of the ability to exercise individual critical thinking.

[Jeff]

John McCain isn't the problem any more than Barack Obama is the solution.

Precisely. And believing that they are, whoever they are every four years, is the false dilemma of American political theatre, and all that remains of "politics."

[ninakat]

I can't imagine anyone, on this forum or elsewhere, would taser the black man because, well, because he MIGHT be worse.

Yet that's exactly what some of you are suggesting. It's insane.

If only the choice were that simple, that black and white.

[Eldritch]

Obama does not joke about incinerating people...

That's right: he doesn't "joke" about it. And Barack Obama is certainly more polite when he talks about incinerating people!

Gotta give him that.

Tough talk on Pakistan from Obama
Wed Aug 1, 2007 7:26pm EDT

By Steve Holland

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy.

Obama's stance comes amid debate in Washington over what to do about a resurgent al Qaeda and Taliban in areas of northwest Pakistan that President Pervez Musharraf has been unable to control, and concerns that new recruits are being trained there for a September 11-style attack against the United States.

Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic ... 6420070801

And he doesn't sing songs about it either!

(How I hate those musical presidents.)

[vigilant]

"Obama may do evil things, but McCain is SO MUCH worse! Therefore, support Obama."

What preposterous idiocy.

You know, I don't like it much either. But the way I see it, you'd have to be completely delusional to think that whatever activism you're involved in now will have the potential to change anything with McCain in power. Keep doing what you're doing, but for the love of all that's holy, don't give the republicans another four years to fuck us all over. Obama is no messiah. He's bought and paid for like the others, but he's not an insane old man singing "Bomb bomb Iran." To me, that counts for something.

This Bush administration is the worst I have ever seen...granted.

But...I also want to point out again that the ghost of Bill Clinton is "just now" showing us how ugly it truly is. This current banking crisis, which is by no means over yet, has created somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of million homeless people already. I don't think anyone could cite an exact number but the number is high. This egg was hatched by his pen and and ink. No telling how much he has pocketed on the deal. He knew he was selling us all down the river when he did it. I doubt he did it for "no" reason. There were no benefits to the people in repealing Glass Stegall. There certainly were huge benefits for his cronies.

And he sang bomb bomb Iran the day the Monica thing went to trial. Wonder if that was for distraction purposes? All those dead people, and children, and misery, and blood, and gore, and destroyed neighborhoods and homes, etc...

Obama The Lesser? mmmmm....maybe not.

[marmot]

On my drive home from work, I thought of another analogy.

Let's say you are in a dark alley, late at night. When you reach the middle of the alley, you notice two men, on in front of you and one behind you.

The guy behind you, an old, maniacal looking white man, has a knife in his hand. It's covered in blood. A trail of bodies is piled behind him, cut open and bleeding. He's screaming "I'm going to kill more people! Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb IRAN! Death to my enemies!" He sees you, and holds the knife high in the air as he starts to run towards you.

The other guy, at the opposite end of the alley, is a skinny black dude. He's shifty, and he's smiling, but that smile might be a mask. He's reaching under his jacket, where he might have a holstered gun. His eyes don't leave yours -- he seems to have some kind of hypnotic power. You can't shake the possibility that he might be drawing a gun to put a bullet in your head. Then again, he might be pulling a gun to shoot the crazy white guy with the knife.

Both men are moving towards you, at the same rate of speed. You, luckily, have a taser in your pocket, but you can only use it on one of the men before the other reaches you.

I can't imagine any one of you would not try to stop the foaming-at-the-mouth lunatic with the trail of bodies behind him and the knife raised high in his had. He's out for blood, and he's made that clear, and the bodies behind him... maybe some of the them are Vietnamese women and children.

I can't imagine anyone, on this forum or elsewhere, would taser the black man because, well, because he MIGHT be worse.

Yet that's exactly what some of you are suggesting. It's insane.

I love this! What an analogy! Someone should post this a new thread and see where it goes.

[professorpan]

And he doesn't sing songs about it either!

(How I hate those musical presidents.)

If you think Obama's quote -- about going after particular individuals, with the provision that there is actionable intelligence warranting it, is on the same level as JOKING ABOUT INCINERATING OR GIVING CANCER TO AN ENTIRE COUNTRY, then, my friend, you are one tone-deaf motherfucker!

I really think there is a major disconnect here between people like myself, justdrew, and others, who are arguing in favor of defensive voting against a proven tool of the Neocons... and those who are simply convinced (for emotional reasons, with little factual support) that Obama is equal to, or worse than, McInsane. It just doesn't compute.

In fact, it's absurd to think that anyone with a grasp of political reality wouldn't take the opportunity to stop a repeat of the last 8 miserable years, even if it means giving the chance to an unknown -- even an unknown who has said some deeply troubling things. It speaks of an irrational fear, and a nihilistic, defeatist despair that permits no possibility of improvement or a change of course.

Well, I guess I've shown my alliance with those who haven't adopted nihilism and thrown up their hands in defeat. I'd much rather take a chance on something good happening than to assume the absolute worst and opt out of participation entirely.

Time to go settle down, crack open a beer, and watch Obama's acceptance speech. See you all after that