rigorousintuition.ca

Forth base wrote:

So this is what a feminist message board sounds like? "Pics or it didn't happen"? The "it" being hundreds of sexual assaults?

You're not really anti-misogynists.
You're not really anti-racists.
You're not really anti-fascists.
You're just anti-capitalists.

I wonder about this too Forth Base.

I'm anti- all those things, 4th Base, and you can add that I simply don't trust a capitalist, manipulative media. Short form-- it sounds like a few young refugee men may have assaulted women on New Year's Eve in Cologne. But the 'fog of bullshit' in the reporting of what happened, its magnitude, its significance... that's what demands examination and that's what we're doing here. Then again, we could just barge ahead into a race war based on isolated crimes... I believe we should consider that... at this moment.. we're experiencing big-time fascist rumblings on both sides of the pond.

norton ash wrote:the 'fog of bullshit' in the reporting of what happened, its magnitude, its significance... that's what demands examination

Exactly. And even here in Germany it's still impossible to work out exactly wtf happened on NYE in Cologne. People are asking questions and getting very few answers. The lack of transparency, the number of contradictory accounts from police sources, the police's very striking absence and ineffectiveness on the night, the weirdness of the constantly-increasing number of criminal complaints (today the figure is 821 - why would people wait so long to report those crimes? not just sexual harrassment, but also ca. 300 thefts, etc.??) - all this is food for speculation. And for bafflement and anger.

And yes, the complete absence of any photos or films or even fragmentary sound recordings of this whatever-it-was-exactly, on what is probably the most-filmed night of the year! Nothing has been released from official sources, and nothing whatsoever from private individuals on YouTube etc.

There were thousands of personal smartphones in use that night, plus all those surveillance cameras mounted in high places in the square as well as on, in, and around the station. WR's report about dummy surveillance cameras being used in the US has, I think, no bearing on the 80-plus surveillance cameras in operation in and around Cologne Central Station. I have yet to hear that any public authority in Germany has ever used dummies. (It's also unimaginable that Cologne is so financially strapped that the city authorities would think it a good idea to save money by doing so. If they did and it then came out, they'd be out of a job instantly.)

Here's a good article in German, too long to translate, but ending with a reminder that the Strategy of Tension was is a Real Thing:

Silvesternacht in Köln: Das „Versagen“ der Staatsorgane

Unterlassene Hilfeleistung mit politischen Konsequenzen

14. Januar 2016

http://www.hintergrund.de/201601143817/ ... rgane.html

(New Year's Eve in Cologne: the "Failure" of Government Bodies and Instruments.
Non-Assistence of Persons in Danger, and the political consequences)

On Edit: See also this facebook post by an ex-cop from Cologne:

http://www.merkur.de/politik/ex-polizis ... 24040.html

Yeah, these days you can't trust the media one bit, especially when it comes to events that seem designed to ratchet up racial hatred, especially involving anyone Muslim. These days you have to see as much evidence as possible to make up your mind as to the veracity of, well, pretty much anything.

But sure go ahead and call me a misogynist because I'm skeptical of a media whose job it is to divide and lie and conquer. Because really it's my hatred of women that makes me ask for evidence to back up what the media is claiming. In the meantime I'm going to cheer on any hate crimes that occur because if this, because, like you said, I'm a racist, fascist kitten-raper.

Nordic » 20 Jan 2016 19:13 wrote:Yeah, these days you can't trust the media one bit, especially when it comes to events that seem designed to ratchet up racial hatred, especially involving anyone Muslim. These days you have to see as much evidence as possible to make up your mind as to the veracity of, well, pretty much anything.

Yeah, let's pretend that "the media" is merely one big diabolical right wing monolith. Let's pretend there isn't a heaping shitload of editors and managers at major international outlets driven by biases largely the same as yours, i.e., it's better to pretend that the culturally-embedded misogyny, racism, and fascism of hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide is just a myth designed to besmirch brown people for the sake of maintaining a regressive capitalist world order, rather than to allow for even the remotest possibility of the overarching left-centric narrative (the "larger truth") being contradicted.

But sure go ahead and call me a misogynist because I'm skeptical of a media whose job it is to divide and lie and conquer. Because really it's my hatred of women that makes me ask for evidence to back up what the media is claiming. In the meantime I'm going to cheer on any hate crimes that occur because if this, because, like you said, I'm a racist, fascist kitten-raper.

Nah, read more closely, I said you are not really an anti-misogynist, i.e., you can live with excusing one especially heinous and aggressive brand of misogyny if it means guarding the reputation of a identity-demo positioned as premier victims of capitalism and potential revolutionary allies. I wouldn't equate that with being a misogynist, they are two distinct sins, you don't strike me as a misogynist at all. Whereas I do think you are both not an anti-racist and also are an outright racist as far as generally being a hater of most Jewish interests goes. You are not an anti-fascist, but I think it'd be unfair to describe you as a fascist. You're just a fascism-excuser and imperialism-enabler, selectively, whenever you think it serves the interests of foregrounding the "larger truth" about the supposedly ultimate and therefore the only true forms of fascism and imperialism. But hey, you're not alone. Definitely not here on this board.

FourthBase » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:55 am wrote:

Nordic » 20 Jan 2016 19:13 wrote:Yeah, these days you can't trust the media one bit, especially when it comes to events that seem designed to ratchet up racial hatred, especially involving anyone Muslim. These days you have to see as much evidence as possible to make up your mind as to the veracity of, well, pretty much anything.

Yeah, let's pretend that "the media" is merely one big diabolical right wing monolith. Let's pretend there isn't a heaping shitload of editors and managers at major international outlets driven by biases largely the same as yours, i.e., it's better to pretend that the culturally-embedded misogyny, racism, and fascism of hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide is just a myth designed to besmirch brown people for the sake of maintaining a regressive capitalist world order, rather than to allow for even the remotest possibility of the overarching left-centric narrative (the "larger truth") being contradicted.

But sure go ahead and call me a misogynist because I'm skeptical of a media whose job it is to divide and lie and conquer. Because really it's my hatred of women that makes me ask for evidence to back up what the media is claiming. In the meantime I'm going to cheer on any hate crimes that occur because if this, because, like you said, I'm a racist, fascist kitten-raper.

Nah, read more closely, I said you are not really an anti-misogynist, i.e., you can live with excusing one especially heinous and aggressive brand of misogyny if it means guarding the reputation of a identity-demo positioned as premier victims of capitalism and potential revolutionary allies. I wouldn't equate that with being a misogynist, they are two distinct sins, you don't strike me as a misogynist at all. Whereas I do think you are both not an anti-racist and also are an outright racist as far as generally being a hater of most Jewish interests goes. You are not an anti-fascist, but I think it'd be unfair to describe you as a fascist. You're just a fascism-excuser and imperialism-enabler, selectively, whenever you think it serves the interests of foregrounding the "larger truth" about the supposedly ultimate and therefore the only true forms of fascism and imperialism. But hey, you're not alone. Definitely not here on this board.

Gosh, I love you too.

A non-response like that, speaks volumes.

Jewish interests

Wow, what are those? As opposed to Muslim, Christian or Buddhist ones?

RocketMan » 21 Jan 2016 06:44 wrote:

Jewish interests

Wow, what are those? As opposed to Muslim, Christian or Buddhist ones?

Meaning, like, a callous disregard for the well-being of the only Jewish nation in the world. If not even worse, the wishing of harm to it. The tactical if not emotional indifference to the religiously-sanctioned mass-hatred of Jews by hundreds of millions of Muslims. The unremitting speculation that Jewish masterminds regularly manufacture their own victimization as a ploy for narrative control, paired with the unwavering assumption that Muslims couldn't possibly be doing the same, and are always being framed...with the help of Jews, usually, of course. Just in general a constant, shrill antipathy toward Jews, conveyed within the rhetorical boundaries of anti-Zionism. Except for the good Jews, of course, you know, the ones who hate themselves. Bless their hearts.

If that isn't un-anti-racist enough -- the rank antisemitism; the condescending bigotry of low expectations re: the capability of Muslims for shadowy, high-stakes malice -- then there's always the wealth of orthodox anti-white rhetoric.

But the anti-Jew stuff is particularly relevant in the context of a thread where people are expressing angst about fascist reactions in Europe. As far as I can tell, few of those same people give much of a shit about the umpteenth rerun of the same phenomenon happening to Jews. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if the reason is because the anti-Jew reactionaries this time are categorized as Oppressed on the anti-capitalist spreadsheet and so must therefore be afforded agreement as a gesture of solidarity or because people just have a grudge against Jews. It's grotesque ideologically-dictated hypocrisy, either way.

Yeah Fourth Base, pics or we haven't seen convincing evidence of anything. In fact, the lack of evidence is highly suspicious. If you want to attribute a call for evidence to feminism, so be it.

The Western left is generally more concerned about the Western right than about on-the-ground issues. The same is true in reverse. Analyses are focused on whether [insert event] will assist the greater cause of the opponent, with suspicion, context, and interpretation allocated accordingly.

kool maudit » 21 Jan 2016 08:18 wrote:The Western left is generally more concerned about the Western right than about on-the-ground issues. The same is true in reverse. Analyses are focused on whether [insert event] will assist the greater cause of the opponent, with suspicion, context, and interpretation allocated accordingly.

[grimly nods]

Two wrongs.

When the civil war ends and we emerge from our ruined houses (state-subsidized or otherwise), perhaps we can come together, squinting at the sun, and consider the agency of forces beyond the current culture war factions.

FourthBase » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:06 am wrote:

RocketMan » 21 Jan 2016 06:44 wrote:

Jewish interests

Wow, what are those? As opposed to Muslim, Christian or Buddhist ones?

Meaning, like, a callous disregard for the well-being of the only Jewish nation in the world. If not even worse, the wishing of harm to it. The tactical if not emotional indifference to the religiously-sanctioned mass-hatred of Jews by hundreds of millions of Muslims. The unremitting speculation that Jewish masterminds regularly manufacture their own victimization as a ploy for narrative control, paired with the unwavering assumption that Muslims couldn't possibly be doing the same, and are always being framed...with the help of Jews, usually, of course. Just in general a constant, shrill antipathy toward Jews, conveyed within the rhetorical boundaries of anti-Zionism. Except for the good Jews, of course, you know, the ones who hate themselves. Bless their hearts.

If that isn't un-anti-racist enough -- the rank antisemitism; the condescending bigotry of low expectations re: the capability of Muslims for shadowy, high-stakes malice -- then there's always the wealth of orthodox anti-white rhetoric.

But the anti-Jew stuff is particularly relevant in the context of a thread where people are expressing angst about fascist reactions in Europe. As far as I can tell, few of those same people give much of a shit about the umpteenth rerun of the same phenomenon happening to Jews. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if the reason is because the anti-Jew reactionaries this time are categorized as Oppressed on the anti-capitalist spreadsheet and so must therefore be afforded agreement as a gesture of solidarity or because people just have a grudge against Jews. It's grotesque ideologically-dictated hypocrisy, either way.

This is what you ascribe to Nordic?

More or less.
Among others.