rigorousintuition.ca

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:52 pm**

Novem5er » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:39 am wrote:He's using his own court case to explain that the NSA has all of Hillary's email and that there is no excuse for the FBI (or Congress) to not have access to them.

Kim Dotcom ‏@KimDotcom Oct 26
I know where Hillary Clintons deleted emails are and how to get them legally @TGowdySC @seanhannity @realDonaldTrump. 100% true. Retweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvt90Q8UAAA6iUc.jpg

Kim Dotcom ‏@KimDotcom Oct 26
I know how X-Keyscore works because NSA/GCSB used it to obtain my emails in my White House driven copyright case. Evidence in my court file.

Kim Dotcom ‏@KimDotcom Oct 26
Prime Minister of New Zealand apologized for unlawfully spying on me (google it), utilizing NSA X-Keyscore. NSA has the Clinton emails 100%.

He's scoring a point against the deep state, hooray. Now think this through. Do you see how extraordinarily dangerous this is? Consider the meaning behind the way he contradicts himself. One moment it's "how to get them legally," the next he notes prime minister of NZ "unlawfully" spied on him. The NSA programs are currently understood to be awesomely unconstitutional, whatever the level of coverage by the absurd secret FISA court and other internal rationalizations they may enjoy. Using X-Keyscore to reveal Clinton's mails to the public or (officially) to the FBI for prosecuting a case would be a practice that satisfies exactly once. Then it becomes the heralded precedent for using it at all! The floodgates are open. The awesome spying power that presumably currently feeds info to an assortment of anti "terrorist" rendition and drone-strike programs in some legal gray zone and is probably abused for manipulation and blackmail within deep state factional struggles has its coming out party in the public. You may as well move the presidential seal to NSA headquarters. They would become something like a legitimated absolute monarch. Every single person would be vulnerable to exposure and legal prosecution for something or other based on their Internet and telephone activity. Needless to say other than allowing those with access to the NSA tools to control who prevails among the elites (which they may already be using this info for, as we know), the targets otherwise are EVERYONE considered problematic to the state or the present order of political economy, or otherwise designated as scapegoat of the month. If fully developed and made legit, this has the potential to make the current mass incarceration horrors look like a nostalgic joke.

There's your Roko Basilisk of the present, by the way. If I thought like a Yudkowsky, I should fear typing these very words!

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Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:51 pm**

Great points, JackRiddler. It's for those very reasons that I 100% believe that the FBI/Congress will leave X-Keyscore alone and thus leave Hillary alone. They really don't want to open this can of worms to the public, especially to prosecute one of their own (a Washington power player), and especially one who might be elected president in less than two weeks. What's more, say they did use X-Keyscore and then found nothing noteworthy? They'd have played their hand for all the world to see for absolutely no gain. It's too big a risk.

Kimdotcom seemed to think that Comey's Friday revelation was related to X-Keyscore, but it came out within hours that they'd found these missing email on Weiners's laptop. So either that's cover or Kim Dotcom jumped the gun; and all he's done is give the idea that the NSA could find those emails, which everyone suspected anyway.

But back to your points (as great as they are), I could see some silver-lining if they were to use X-Keyscore. It would put the NSA program into the mindscape of the American public in a way that it hasn't before. Yes, it could then be used for horrible things (as if it isn't already), but the public realizing this might create the uproar to shut it down. Nothing shuts down a super-secret intelligence program like public awareness of it.

I mean, nothing moves those programs deeper into the shadows like public awareness . . . We can't win, either way.

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:18 pm**

Novem5er » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:51 pm wrote:Great points, JackRiddler. It's for those very reasons that I 100% believe that the FBI/Congress will leave X-Keyscore alone and thus leave Hillary alone. They really don't want to open this can of worms to the public, especially to prosecute one of their own (a Washington power player), and especially one who might be elected president in less than two weeks. What's more, say they did use X-Keyscore and then found nothing noteworthy? They'd have played their hand for all the world to see for absolutely no gain. It's too big a risk.

No, I see this as a non-zero-probability that could unfold after the election, depending on the situation, configuration of the Congress, what crises and fuck-ups hit, what's actually IN there (which is presumably already known to some), etc. Plenty of her "own" won't mind burning her (especially after Trump). And it is a gateway to putting the deep state openly and legitimately in charge.

But back to your points (as great as they are), I could see some silver-lining if they were to use X-Keyscore. It would put the NSA program into the mindscape of the American public in a way that it hasn't before. Yes, it could then be used for horrible things (as if it isn't already), but the public realizing this might create the uproar to shut it down. Nothing shuts down a super-secret intelligence program like public awareness of it.

Uproar, sure. Wonder how far that would go? Done in this way, and I'm sure you see it, it would also create a constituency - fan club.

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Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:17 pm**

JackRiddler » Today, 18:52 wrote:If fully developed and made legit, this has the potential to make the current mass incarceration horrors look like a nostalgic joke.

It's already legit. Just a question of who is held accountable, ostensibly, like those who remain in hiding, and who is held accountable by sitting in a small cell, or whoever else we'll never know about who suffer other repercussions. The Clintons? The Bushes? So far none of them is expendable. Nevertheless, exposing the workings of power is a damn fine precedent for which I fail to see the slippery slope.

Novem5er » Today, 19:51 wrote:They really don't want to open this can of worms to the public, especially to prosecute one of their own (a Washington power player), and especially one who might be elected president in less than two weeks.

You're right about that. The only way this investigation leads to anything else for Clinton other than how it played out for the last Clinton administration is if it turns out Abedin used her old man's weiner to bludgeon a witness to death, and even then it'd be her alone serving time.

Novem5er » Today, 19:51 wrote:Nothing shuts down a super-secret intelligence program like public awareness of it.

Just like the NSA's public private partnership to spy on virtually everyone has been shut down since we've been aware of it, huh?

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:14 pm**

Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:17 pm wrote:
Novem5er » Today, 19:51 wrote:Nothing shuts down a super-secret intelligence program like public awareness of it.
Just like the NSA's public private partnership to spy on virtually everyone has been shut down since we've been aware of it, huh?

See the line I wrote immediately after

Novem5er » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:51 pm wrote:

I mean, nothing moves those programs deeper into the shadows like public awareness . . . We can't win, either way.

JackRiddler » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:18 pm wrote:
No, I see this as a non-zero-probability that could unfold after the election, depending on the situation, configuration of the Congress, what crises and fuck-ups hit, what's actually IN there (which is presumably already known to some), etc. Plenty of her "own" won't mind burning her (especially after Trump). And it is a gateway to putting the deep state openly and legitimately in charge.

Too true! Hell, they might consider the fact that a scandalous revelation now would be too late to cost Hillary the election, and even if it did, what they want Trump to win? Not really. It actually makes more sense for a Republican House to expect a Hillary administration and then use whatever is at their disposal to immediately launch investigations and create a lame-duck presidency from day one. They can use any new President Hillary scandal to fundraise and gather the base over a four-year drive to win back the White House in 2020.

And, yes, I could see a growing group of Americans clamoring at the chance to turn our greatest weapons inward and focus them on their political enemies rather than the foreign threats that rallied them to the cause in the first place.

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:06 pm**

Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:17 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » Today, 18:52 wrote:If fully developed and made legit, this has the potential to make the current mass incarceration horrors look like a nostalgic joke.
It's already legit.

No. Of the minority who know and have an opinion on it, most of them do not consider it so. It came close to being defunded by Congress. It is used in overseas "terror" operations. It may be used extralegally in blackmail and factional fights. It may be used to tip off enforcement agencies that then create the evidence trail independently. It may be abused extralegally by anyone who has access to it, for any purpose. Legal use is limited. It's not submittable in criminal prosecutions. It's not usable for evidence in a court of law. These distinctions matter! Broadbrush is a rhetorical strategy, not a means of understanding. Always picking the worse scenario as already done and out and pointless to resist does not make you more right or more radical, only weaker. And smug does not make you smart.

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:18 pm**

JackRiddler » 26 minutes ago wrote:
Spiro C. Thiery » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:17 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » Today, 18:52 wrote:If fully developed and made legit, this has the potential to make the current mass incarceration horrors look like a nostalgic joke.
It's already legit.
No.

You got me there. I was speaking ironically. Still. For all intents and purposes, any and all government gathering of data from its private citizens and how they choose to apply it is default legit. I'm eager to hear about the prosecution of someone at any of the sundry social media or tech companies or other private spying agencies or members of the government orgs they assist that would indicate otherwise, though.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:Of the minority who know and have an opinion on it, most of them do not consider it so. It came close to being defunded by Congress.

Well. That's that, then.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:It is used in overseas "terror" operations.

To my point.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:It may be used extralegally in blackmail and factional fights.

This is wholly unrelated to how it's otherwise used. It is going to be used in factional fights. Who knows, maybe we're discussing one of them now.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:Legal use is limited. It's not submittable in criminal prosecutions. It's not usable for evidence in a court of law.

Like I said, it doesn't matter when it's application is arbitrary and literal execution extrajudicial.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:These distinctions matter!

They'd matter if someone from one of the last few presidential administrations were in solitary like a certain whistleblowing ex-soldier. Otherwise they're only part of the narrative fiction we all have a tendency to regurgitate when we forget the only real distinction that matters is whether or not you're above the law.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:Broadbrush is a rhetorical strategy, not a means of understanding. Always picking the worse scenario as already done and out and pointless to resist does not make you more right or more radical, only weaker.

Just to make sure we're are discussing from the same page here, nothing Kim Dot Fuckface does is going to legalize or codify his suggested behavior. The suggested behavior on the other hand is a box not to be shut so long as there's a digital world. Hacking for governmental transparency's sake serves the dual purpose of equal rights. That's not radical, but fair.

If you're suggesting that this will somehow lead to an official transparent above the board legally admissible in the court of law variety of newly warranted unwarranted gathering of private data for the purposes of prosecution... I disagree. If the world is headed that way, which I don't see as being too unlikely, it's gonna happen regardless. Better the string pullers continue to be exposed.

JackRiddler » 28 minutes ago wrote:And smug does not make you smart.

Tell that to the next smug president, more smug than the last, who, mark my words, will be yet another "smartest person in the room".

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:27 pm**

Who gets to conserve opacity in the long run though?

Maybe not figures like Trump and Clinton.

But who?

Corporations and other unaccountable private interests will be protected from transparency that will be used against everyday powerless individuals as well as against "government corruption."

China just dragged a million officials into hot water over "corruption" but you can bet that powerful interests there are able to shield themselves from transparency.

It would be amusing to see Trump AND Clinton get in trouble but just look and see who gets to continue acting with impunity.

The USA will have its own versions of the Savile "revelations" where we are ultimately left with more questions than answers and TPTB further entrenches their position.

Posted: **Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:43 pm**

If you're suggesting that this will somehow lead to an official transparent above the board legally admissible in the court of law variety of newly warranted unwarranted gathering of private data for the purposes of prosecution... I disagree. If the world is headed that way, which I don't see as being too unlikely, it's gonna happen regardless. Better the string pullers continue to be exposed.

Not suggesting that of Kim Dotcom's statement, no. He may have seen something he thinks is coming, but more likely just making a fitting joke without necessarily thinking of the consequences if this actually happened. But obviously he has not given them an idea they never had, cause it, or accelerate it.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:34 am**

Supposedly from the NYPD Facebook group:

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:40 am**

I kind of get Freitag. Beyond sick of having the "support Hillary or else" message shoved down my throat every minute of every day across social media, tv, social circles, by movie stars, etc.
Especially by the same people who would be all over the wikileaks and FBI email/weiner thing had they been exposed during the primaries. The hypocrisy is so thick...it's not just the evangelicals
supporting Trump that are hypocrites. But all the anti Bush anti war 'progressives' and 'progressive news' sites using every bit of propaganda to ensure the Bush/neocon chosen candidate wins.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:36 pm**

^^ I have a lot of Bernie supporters as friends and family and YES they would have eaten this Wikileak stuff up during the primaries. They would have used it as a rallying cry to oust Hillary and put in Bernie. Now, though, they just ignore everything. They've learned to love Hillary, but I suspect this is due mostly to their hatred of Trump. And can I blame them?

Trump has done everything possible to alienate people who might turned against Hillary and voted for a moderate Republican. Can we imagine what this race would look like if a different billionaire outsider was at the head of the GOP ticket? Mark Cuban? Bloomberg? Hell, I even think Mitt Romney could have won this time around. I bet some of these guys are kicking themselves now that the Wikileaks has exposed Hillary and erased any kind of "inevitability" they might have seen 8 months ago.

I'm just ready for this to be over with. I've been telling friends and family that neither candidate is going to immediately help or hurt my life. I'm lucky like that, I suppose. If SLAD were still here, this is where she would jump in and, correctly, remind many of use how lucky we are to not be directly impacted by a Trump presidency.

And then we'd retaliate saying how lucky any of us are not to be a Syrian or Lybian, etc. And we'd go around and around.

I've been haunted these last few years, but I'm also fortunate in so many ways. Neither of that has to do with the presidency and I'd like to keep it that way (because I'm lucky?)

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:16 pm**

Holy shit. Just read this.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/10 ... g-roberts/

The Director of the FBI Reopens the Hillary Case — Paul Craig Roberts
October 29, 2016 | Categories: Articles & Columns | Tags: | Print This Article Print This Article
The Director of the FBI Reopens the Hillary Case

Paul Craig Roberts

Word has reached me from Washington that the FBI has reopened the Hillary case of her violation of US National Security protocols, not because of the content of the new email releases, but because voter support for Trump seems to be overwhelming, while Hillary has cancelled appearances due to inability to muster a crowd. The popular vote leaves the FBI far out on the limb for its corrupt clearance of Hillary. The agency now has to redeem itself.

I myself do not know what precisely to think. Having been at the top of the Washington hierarchy for a quarter century, I have seen many mistaken judgments. At one time I had subpoena power over the CIA and was able to inform President Reagan that the CIA had misled him. He took note and proceeded with his policy of ending the Cold War with the Soviets. On other issues I have been mistaken, because I assumed that there was more integrity in government than actually exists.

However, FBI director Comey did not need to reopen the case against Hillary simply because some new incriminating emails appeared. Having dismissed the other incriminating evidence, these emails could have passed unremarked.

The problem for the FBI, which once was a trusted American institution, but no longer is, is that there is no longer any doubt that Donald Trump will win the popular vote for president of the United States. His appearances are so heavily attended that thousands are turned away by local fire/occupancy regulations. In contrast, Hillary has curtailed her appearances, because she doesn’t draw more than 30 or 40 people.

Americans are sick to death of the corrupt Clintons and the corrupt American media. The Clintons are so completely bought-and-paid-for by the Oligarchy that they were able to outspend Hollywood on their daughter’s wedding, dropping $3,000,000 on the event.

Nevertheless, I don’t underestimate the power of the Oligarchy. As Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury I experienced the Oligarchy’s power. If I had not been backed by the President of the United States, I would have been destroyed.

Indeed, the Oligarchy is still trying to destroy me.

Possibly Trump, as his enemies allerge, is just another fake, like Obama who misled the electorate. However, Trump attacks the Oligarchy so strongly that it is hard to believe that Trump isn’t real. Trump is asking for a bullet like John F. Kennedy, like Robert Kennedy, like Martin Luther King, like George Wallace.

In Amerika, dissidents are exterminated.

Trump is up against voting machines over which he has no control. If there are no INDEPENDENT exit polls, Trump can easily be robbed of the election, as the Texas early voting scandal indicates, with the electronic machines assigning Trump votes to Hillary. The “glitch” doesn’t assign any Hillary votes to Trump.

My expectation is that, unless Trump’s popular vote is so overwhelming, the electoral collage vote will be stolen. Because of the absence of any valid reporting by the presstitutes, I don’t know what impact the orchestrated election of Hillary would have on the electorate. Possibly, Americans will break out of The Matrix and take to the streets.

I beleve that Hillary in the Oval Office would convince the Russians and the Chinese that their national survival requires a pre-emptive nuclear attack on the crazed, insane government of the United States, the complete narcisstic state that in the words of Hillary and Obama is “the exceptional, indispensible country,” empowered by History to impose its will on the world. This crazed American agenda is not something that Russia and China will accept.

Here is Donald Trump speaking to Americans in words Americans have been waiting to hear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8prvxjW2wM

Notice that Trump doesn’t need teleprompters.

I do not agree with Trump on many issues, but the American people do. For me and for the world, the importance of Trump is the prospect of peace with Russia. Nuclear war makes every other problem irrelevant.

If Hillary is installed by the Oligarchy—this is a word used by former Democratic President Jimmy Carter who said that the US is no longer a functioning democracy but is ruled by an Oligarchy—war with Russia and China will be upon us.

After 15 years the Taliban and ISIS still run wild in the Middle East despite the efforts of the American “superpower.” Unable to defeat a few lightly armied Taiban after 15 years, what prospects does the enfeebled US have of winning a conflict with Russia and China?

None whatsoever.

The United States has had an entire generation of people born into a war for which the purpose is inexplicable. Why these wars? Why this endless slaughter of women and children and endless columns of refugees overwhelming all of Europe desperately striving to escape Washington’s wars of world hegemony. Why do not the total dumbshits in Washington hear when the President of Russia says that “Russia can no longer tolerate the state of affairs that Washington has created in the world.”

The unjustified arrogance of Washington, a washed up Third World State, is likely to destroy life on earth. No greater danger to life exists than Washington. We have to hope that Trump can clean out the Augean Stables.
I

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:51 pm**

Ed Klein "exclusive" in the Mail - chimes somewhat with the above

- basic take seems to be that Comey was confronted by a passive aggresive slow burning insurrection inside the FBI at his caving in to pressure to dismiss the case - that was clearly going to make it virtualy impossible for him to continue in office - alongside real worries that he could end up in some real deep shit if his actions were ever put under scrutiny by vengeful Repub's

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ation.html

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:02 pm**

8bitagent » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:55 am wrote:Ok so 10 days away from the big ol (s)Election, the score stands at:

A woman who lead the destruction of Libya, married to a sexual predator, whose real love is with her right hand woman Huma Abedin, married to a pedo pervert...investigated by
the FBI recently for luring a 15 year old for sex, and in the course of said investigation the FBI possibly uncovered enough evidence to reopen a Clinton criminal investigation...
with another (at least journalistic) investigation showing the Clintons used their "charity" to procure quite a lot of money for themselves(including from countries that are
dictatorships and known state sponsors of terrorism)

versus

A man who brags about sexual assault, has numerous abuse accusers, used racism to wiggle out of the media spotlight on his fraud pyramid scheme University trial,
openly courts unstable far right nutjobs, and is telling his supporters to take matters into their own hands (possibly with violence) if his opponent wins. And of whom,
the US government is accusing of being a secret agent of Russia.

No wonder Trump and Slick Willy have been long time friends and talking on the phone as recent as last spring.

Sounds about right to me.

And if her "real love is with her right hand woman Huma Abedin", it'd be reassuring that Clinton could feel, maybe, passionate about someone. (That is, if works for Huma too.)

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