Obama To Establish A Civilian National Security Force

[ninakat]

And another thing... some of you need to learn how to write coherently or shut up.

That's helpful, Bill O'Reilly.

[8bitagent]

Of course, and thank you.

But let's give Obama the benefit of doubt, of course.

I was taken in by the spell of Obama at first too, til I took a hard look at reality and history and was actually listening to what he was saying and who he surrounds himself with.

None of us want to be the one who says "We told you so..." ...hell I'd love to be proven wrong.

brainpanhandler wrote:

For fuck's sake people.... Obama creating a domestic farm team for future fascists? Don't be idiots. I'm not far from becoming a permanent lurker I've seen so much drivel written on this board recently.

I can just imagine after the next 9/11, some para politic/"conspiracy" researchers will say "maybe its time to trust the government".

I think "they", the PTB, would be MORE brazen to enact a youth Stasi force, martial law, FEMA camps, etc WITH Obama...theyd get away with so much more since even the mainstream liberals would be blinded.

[Jeff]

But let's give Obama the benefit of doubt, of course.

I don't give Obama the benefit of my doubt, but I don't give Infowars the benefit of my paranoia.

[ninakat]

But let's give Obama the benefit of doubt, of course.

I don't give Obama the benefit of my doubt, but I don't give Infowars the benefit of my paranoia.

Fair enough, but is it completely implausible that Obama would initiate a devious program under a benign guise? Is it really paranoid to think that he'd want to beef up already existing initiatives to have us policing each other as potential terrorists, especially if/when another false-flag attack occurs, or another major U.S.-initiated war erupts against those dreaded Islamofacists (or whomever the enemy du jour is)?

FWIW, I don't see this as paranoia. I see it as a total lack of trust, and well-earned at that.

[Jeff]

Fair enough, but is it completely implausible that Obama would initiate a devious program under a benign guise? Is it really paranoid to think that he'd want to beef up already existing initiatives to have us policing each other as potential terrorists, especially if/when another false-flag attack occurs, or another major U.S.-initiated war erupts against those dreaded Islamofacists (or whomever the enemy du jour is)?

But I think that's several steps beyond what's being proposed here, which seems to me well within the liberal/Democratic tradition of encouraging volunteerism. And if he were to initiate such a program, I don't think he'd telegraph it before the general election.

Calling this a "civilian national security force" is simple fear mongering.

If it's wrong when the government tries to keep Americans in fear, why is okay when Alex Jones and friends try to do the same thing?

[Wilbur Whatley]

Every day I tell myself I'm just going to be quiet and not charge into threads on RigInt, and then I hit something like the first few comments in this thread.

I'm so glad that milder, wiser voices, like Jeff's, seem to have prevailed.

There are things to be paranoid about. War with Iran has to be near the top of the list these days. Global warming. Peak oil. Complete corruption of the global financial system.

But some people here have their paranoia filters out of whack. Obama is a good guy. He's not at ALL like the Republicans. He's not a fascist. Good grief. Get a GRIP on reality.

Most countries, I believe, have some kind of compulsory service. I have long believed that the United States should have one year of compulsory service for all citizens. That's not "communism" or "socialism"! Get a grip on reality. It's a rational way to balance personal and community obligations. It's good for the people who participate; it's good for the whole community in this country; and it's good for the entire world.

It wouldn't necessarily be military service. Probably 98 percent of it would be many various kinds of community service, like helping to maintain roads or helping to lay optical cable or helping in hospitals.

The main benefits are not really in the work that gets accomplished, perhaps, although that could be very significant. The main benefits are psychological, by increasing a sense of shared responsibility for all the public works that make civilized life possible. I would suggest that there be NO exceptions--even a son of a billionaire should have no way out whatsoever. The system would be set up so that people in great hardship situations (such as caring for a parent with cancer) would be given ways to cope, such as a 10-year delay in starting. But everybody does one year of service to the country.

Obama, of course, is advocating a MUCH more watered-down, voluntary version of that, similar to what John Kennedy and Bill Clinton advocated.

[OP ED]

I think civil service is generally a good thing.

The united states should already be using civil service as an economic base and also to plug holes in its infrastructure. the fact that it pays better than McDonald's helps too. It'd buy my [school] books for me.

Anything that encourages interaction with reality is a good thing in most cases.

(we could even use some neighborhood watch type shit around here; the problem isn't with the idea of protection and law enforcement is it with the seperate issue of what we're being protected from and what those laws are)

oh well.

LIL;
SHCR

[vigilant]

He's not at ALL like the Republicans. He's not a fascist. Good grief. Get a GRIP on reality.

Oh really? So should I infer that you support his decision to back FISA, The Patriot Act, and his war hawk like attitude he has displayed lately? Lately I hear his empty superlative language, but his "actions" and the things he supports come straight from the GOP NEOCON playbook.


The main benefits are not really in the work that gets accomplished, perhaps, although that could be very significant. The main benefits are psychological, by increasing a sense of shared responsibility for all the public works that make civilized life possible. I would suggest that there be NO exceptions--even a son of a billionaire should have no way out whatsoever.

I find that sort of strange too. Since when did what is good for the goose become good for the gander? Common folk go to illegal wars to get their ass shot off, work dead end jobs that will leave them penniless at retirement, have their pensions stolen by financial magicians, and have inadequate health care that they have to pay for. Billionaires, politicians, and their sons can dodge going to war if they choose, lead a life of privelage, and have lifelong health care plans and retirement benefits they don't pay a dime for. You and I pay for it, and they don't seem to mind one little bit. Yes, Obama too. He will have that fat retirement pension and he has a healthcare plan we can't access.


Obama, of course, is advocating a MUCH more watered-down, voluntary version of that, similar to what John Kennedy and Bill Clinton advocated.

He said he would make federal assistance conditional on school districts establishing service programs and set the goal of 50 hours of service a year for middle school and high school students. I hardly consider that voluntary. Our education system is already in a shambles thanks to these people, and the fact that they keep the school systems starved for cash, and usually only give them cash "with strings attached"...while at the same time we have 2.3 trillion dollars uhhhhh....how did they parse it...."unaccounted for".
2.3 trillion doesn't become unaccounted for in this short of a time frame, it "becomes itself" into somebody elses pocket is what it does. I wonder whose pockets, and why isn't Obama wondering too?

I didn't post this article out of paranoia. I didn't post this article as a form of scaremongering. What bugs me about this article is the fact that it seems so damn "politically typical". Lets look at all the contradictory words and concepts good old Politician Obama mixes together here. When they start mixing terms and concepts like these together it should make your radar go up. Government is FAMOUS for framing things in one light, and then bleeding it into the shadows for their own purposes. Hell...that is how societys and nations are controlled and manipulated for thousands of years. I don't see anything in this article but double talk and a mixing of ideas that make me wonder what it may all really be about. Anybody that doesn't doubt these cock suckers first, and believe them second, is just waiting to be taken advantage of in my opinion. Good grief...look at their track record, if you dare. Obama talks about 9/11 and terrorists in the same breath. Thats enough for me to brand him as an asshole right there.

Let see here, we have all mixed together here by good old honest son Obama the FISA man, Patriot Act son, war hawk boy, in this article....

service,volunteerism,accepting your responsibility(that makes me gag), We will ask Americans to serve(uhh they are supposed to serve us remember?), boost the size of the active military(so we can keep dying for their vast fortunes), the nation’s future and safety depends on more than just additional service members(maybe he shouldn't support looting other nations so we wouldn't have to worry?...just an idea)

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

Hmmm...thats a direct Obama quote above. I heard him say... Can't rely on military for security, need well funded powerful civilian security force that is as adqequate as our military. I don't know how else to interpret it. I don't like the thought of well armed civilians that take their marching orders from these people running around in our streets. It bugs me for some reason. It should shouldn't it? Well maybe it doesn't mean armed civilans taking their marching orders from the government anyway? Its really hard to tell though isn't it? How typical. The only thing it doesn't say is "just as well armed", but the context of the quote leaves me scratching my head. It was probably supposed to as I doubt it came right off his cuff. It was probably craftily written by his speech writer. Bush speaks off the cuff sometimes because he is too stupid to remember his speeches but I have a feeling Obama memorizes his just fine.

And he mixed it with this...."He said he would make federal assistance conditional on school districts establishing service programs and set the goal of 50 hours of service a year for middle school and high school students." I guess if we had a few dollars of that missing 2.3 trillion we would have the best educational system in the world huh? Why isn't Obama demanding to know where the hell it is?


And his buddies are, "In Chicago, meanwhile, billionaire investor Warren Buffett headlined two fundraisers to benefit Obama and the Democratic National Committee." I don't have anything against Buffett, I just wonder what he is getting in return.

Yeah, Obama is a good guy right? Give me a break. The guy is an asshole just like the rest of em....

[ninakat]

vigilant, thanks for your thoughtful posting. I certainly share your healthy skepticism. And I appreciate you having started this thread.

[vigilant]

deleted double post

[Wilbur Whatley]

vigilant, I guess the best response is to say that it's good you're not running for office. Your statements (I would hardly call them arguments) strike me as too shallow to bother to rebut. Keep on voting for Nader...and keep on giving power to the fascists with your purity. You fool.

[vigilant]

Wilbur Whatley wrote:
vigilant, I guess the best response is to say that it's good you're not running for office. Your statements (I would hardly call them arguments) strike me as too shallow to bother to rebut. Keep on voting for Nader...and keep on giving power to the fascists with your purity. You fool.



Keep supporting things like the Patriot Act, FISA, and their architects like Obama, Wilbur Whatley, since you obviously don't consider supporting them "foolish"...

I happen to think they are worse than foolish. I think they are literally criminal. I don't consider voicing dissent against criminal legislation and the people that propogate these freedom eroding farces (Obama) giving power to the fascists. Speaking out is the only thing that has kept this country out of the hands of the fascists in the first place, and now even speaking out is becoming a criminal offense.

I don't know what rock you have had your head hidden under, but I have been paying attention to the changes, and this country doesn't look anything like it did 30 years ago. There has literally been a landslide of erosion of freedoms in this country, and the landslide hasn't even picked up momentum yet...

[vigilant]

Wilbur Whatley wrote:
Obama is a good guy. He's not at ALL like the Republicans. He's not a fascist. Good grief. Get a GRIP on reality.
Every day I tell myself I'm just going to be quiet and not charge into threads on RigInt



Here ya go Wilbur, this is for you buddy. This is about your boy Obama whom you say is "not at all like the Republicans" Since it started looking like the election was in the bag, he hasn't seen many Republican Fascist ideas he didn't like. After reading this maybe it will remind you to charge a little more politely eh?




Senate Approves Telecom Amnesty, Expands Domestic Spying Powers
July 10th, 2008

The Obama cultists find the Kool-Aid to have a bitter aftertaste. McCain still doesn’t know which planet he’s on. The U.S. Ship of Fools sails on.

Via: Wired:

The U.S. Senate overwhelmingly voted Wednesday to grant retroactive amnesty to the telecoms that aided the President Bush’s five-year secret, warrantless wiretapping of Americans, and to expand the government’s authority to sift through U.S. communications, handing a key victory to the Bush administration.

So Obama handed Bush a victory, and you say he is nothing like the Republicans? You called me a fool? I think one of us is confused Wilbur.

The Democrats’ presumptive presidential nominee Barack Obama (D-Illinois) voted for the final bill, despite intense lobbying by supporters who used Obama’s own online organizing technology to try to hold him to his promise to fight any bill that included amnesty. New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, Obama’s former rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, voted against the bill.


Obama said one thing and did exactly another. Where I come from that is called a LIE. You wonder why I'm skeptical and don't trust a thing he says? I really don't think being skeptical of this man is "foolish" Wilbur. One of us is confused...again.


The 68 to 29 vote puts an end to more than a year of debate over whether the government should be able to collect millions of e-mails and phone calls daily from U.S.-based communication switches without any probable cause. It also answers whether Congress believes the nation’s telecoms and president had a duty to follow the rules set out in 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which was passed after the abuses of the 1950s and 60s.

So it appears that Obama cares nothing about the rules that protect the freedoms of the American people. One of us is confused...again.


If the FISA Amendments Act survives constitutional challenge, it dooms the dozens of anti-wiretapping lawsuits filed against the nation’s telecoms, by ordering the judge in charge of the cases to dismiss them if the telecoms can prove the government asked them to help out.

[medicis]

Keep supporting things like the Patriot Act, FISA, and their architects like Obama, Wilbur Whatley, since you obviously don't consider supporting them "foolish"...

I happen to think they are worse than foolish. I think they are literally criminal. I don't consider voicing dissent against criminal legislation and the people that propogate these freedom eroding farces (Obama) giving power to the fascists. Speaking out is the only thing that has kept this country out of the hands of the fascists in the first place, and now even speaking out is becoming a criminal offense.

I don't know what rock you have had your head hidden under, but I have been paying attention to the changes, and this country doesn't look anything like it did 30 years ago. There has literally been a landslide of erosion of freedoms in this country, and the landslide hasn't even picked up momentum yet...[/color]

Thanks Vigilant.

You are absolutely 'spot on'. Noticing the pattern has been inescapable for quite a while now. Except possibly for those whose heads are buried beneath the official offal.

Obama is a puppet just as McCain is a puppet... as were Clinton, GW Bush and Reagan and assorted previous ilk.

Paranoid? Hell yes I'm paranoid ..... a la William Burroughs: “A paranoid is someone who has all the facts at his disposal.”

While I don't pretend to have 'all' the facts at my disposal, I have sufficient facts. And I've seen nothing so far in current events to persuade me that my paranoia is unwarranted. The nay sayers and the rest of the apologists for Obama and the government seem to be trapped in the game without a clue... again in accord with what WSB also said:

"The name of the game is "Find Your Adversary". Your adversary's game plan is to convince you that he does not exist." -William S. Burroughs

It appears some are 'convinced' rather easily.

[OP ED]

campaign promises never happen.