Page 2 of 12
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:14 pm
by Nordic
Well, okay, it only took one comment after mine for this thread to get fucked up by hatred, racism, and prejudice.
Thanks, Jack. Nice job!
If you could see past your hatred, you might notice that the actual thread is about the likely (god I know to someone like you this must seem completely IM-fucking-POSSIBLE) that, say, an Arab country like Saudi Arabia somehow colluded with a "Jew" country like Israel to commit the great crime known as 9/11.
But no, you're too busy shooting messengers right and left.
Divide and Conquer.
What a dick.
May I suggest to all who are actually interested in the content of this thread that we from now on ignore JR's comment and just get on with it?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:15 pm
by JackRiddler
Nordic wrote:Just wanted to say this is a great start to what is hopefully a great thread.
I think it went south pretty fast thanks to standard M.O.s applied by certain users, but out of respect to your hope (and acknowledging that the linked IBM ads make for a serious subject), I will let the above be my last word on this thread.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:16 pm
by Nordic
JackRiddler wrote: I will let the above be my last word on this thread.
Good. Bye now.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:23 pm
by JackRiddler
Nordic wrote:Well, okay, it only took one comment after mine for this thread to get fucked up by hatred, racism, and prejudice.
We have cross-posted, twice so far.
the likely (god I know to someone like you this must seem completely IM-fucking-POSSIBLE) that, say, an Arab country like Saudi Arabia somehow colluded with a "Jew" country like Israel to commit the great crime known as 9/11.
I shall take it as my own failure to communicate that the general scenario you describe is, in fact, very likely to me (Saudi-Israeli intel collusion has been happening at least since the Safari Club and Iran Contra), and that I found it obscured by the Bollynish contribution, which in turn struck me as very obvious "divide and conquer." But apparently you think otherwise. So I'll go, as promised.
.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:24 pm
by 8bitagent
Wombaticus Rex wrote:The way I've always dealt with that is by harvesting data points and ignoring the author's conclusions altogether.
I agree. I don't believe every word Hopsicker, Indira Singh, Nafeez Ahmed,
Rupert, etc says...but taken as a whole, they each have a different component that meshes with other areas that make a bigger understanding of the deep state
For instance, I find it hard to believe Sibel Edmonds's position that bin Laden "worked for the US" right before 9/11...just seems a bit unsubstantiated.
However, she overall provides the framework for the notorious US-Turkish-Israeli-Pakistani deep state intrigue and shenanigans
Bollyn, who quite clearly is part of the "Joos done it" sector of "9/11 truth"(tm) HAS done some interesting work...at least some food for thought. I thought his article on the floors where the planes hit in relation to Fuji Bank and Marsh and Mclellan were interesting
Searcher08 wrote:
Bollyn says: ptech has Israeli intel involvement, therefore is an Isreali cut-out
Indira Singh says: ptech is an Islamist cut-out, run by the Saudis/ CIA
These are not mutually exclusive the way they have been portrayed.
There are documented ties between the House of Saud and traditional US organised crime... in Florida as covered by Hopsicker.
The picture is also muddied by what are undoubtedly both spooky-oriented Islamist friendly and racist anti-Islamic factions in the FBI.
To me either way they both lead to a transnational deep state...be it if someone follows the Saudi line of inquiry, the Israeli line of inquiry, "independent" al Qaeda/jihadist groups, drug running, etc...all leads back to the same post BCCI/Octopus beast in my view.
People will imply that even acknowledging Saudi or Muslim elements within the 9/11 framework is putting the act on an "Arabs dun' it" conclusion...I feel finding middle eastern bullet shell casings at a crime doesn't means a middle eastern gun or even trigger pulling person per se.
Wombaticus Rex wrote:
I mean, if I took the conclusions of Jeff Wells seriously, I would be depressed as fuck, you know?
That life is a Lovecraftian novel?
In a way I find what Jeff sometimes hint at as comforting...ya know, things *are* that weird and it's just not our musings and hunches.
Re: Don't You Miss When This Was Just CT Paranoia?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:30 pm
by 8bitagent
JackRiddler wrote:@8bitagent: Takes important trends and trivializes their reception by breathlessly sprinkling the usual dismissive vocabulary ("ironically") and pretending the only fit worth mentioning is to an essentially useless meta-narrative ("NWO"). Never fails to reference Alex Jones, "CT," paranoia, "777," etc. But thank you for at least bringing up genuinely important and interesting items, before clouding the air around them.
@AlicetheK: Find the Jew! Never fails.
A US government contractor suspected of criminal activity is owned by Arabs with intel connections and has a Jew with a possible Mossad connection in a key position (assuming the job descriptions in the resumes/company PR actually apply).
Learning that, rational people might logically consider motives outside some narrow ethnic or religious agenda.
But racists can only ever allow for ethnic identity and agenda. (I'm not using that as an ephithet, it's merely the shortest applicable description.)
Just as the American right-wing racist will only See the Arab, your kind of racist will act as though merely mentioning the presence of a Jew suffices as proof that everyone in his vicinity, including his employers, are his puppets, dupes and victims.
You paste an article by Bollyn (from Rumor Mill News!) without giving a byline. Of course an uncritical citation from this author tends to disqualify. Almost everything he writes is Find the Jew propaganda. If you cut and paste from the Moonies or Scientology or CIA or Rush Limbaugh while disguising the link and without caveat or research of your own, you would just as rightly be called on it.
---
This twin fuck-you is not to imply that the two of you are on the same team, except insofar as your shared cause is to mystify and stupify (unwittingly or otherwise).
I invite you both to keep flooding your bullshit. I guarantee I won't compete for volume.
Hey now, I don't push some sort of "Israel did it", "neocons dun it" angle...corralling all data and information toward one specific group of
people as you were explaining.
In my OP I said "I miss when this WAS merely the rantings of far right patriot militia radio". If you saw the IBM ads, you'd see what I was talking about
I don't think I made myself clear; The POINT of the CIA working with risk assessment architecture companies, security IT, and the IBM "smart cities/smart people"(biometric control grids) seems to be this:
"predicting patterns". We're hearing about this more and more.
My little note at the end, is that there's many things that these systems can't predict.
Alice thinks I'm trying to push a "Saudis/Arabs/Middle Easterners" angle, I'm just mentioning how there are more components to things than the usual CT "neocons/white military intel" did it angle.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:37 pm
by JackRiddler
.
@8bit: To clarify, although it means going back for the moment on my promise to depart:
No, I don't see you pushing all speculation into the "Jews did it" corner. That's Alice. I see you bringing up very interesting items, like the IBM ads (which I have seen, and which are significant), but almost always trivializing and distracting in your choice of headline and references. It should be possible to discuss the open trends in the evolving techno-capitalist nightmare without automatically bringing in the "CT" and "tinfoil" labeling (even in jest), which mentally allows people to distance themselves. I see you doing this a lot. It does no service to understanding the issues you apparently wish to address.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:54 pm
by AlicetheKurious
Oh, for pete's sake! I don't usually respond to "fuck-yous", but I do take exception to being called a racist. It's depressing to see how even someone as intelligent as you has been bamboozled into identifying with some of the world's most cold-blooded, vicious criminal elements, based on some spurious "ethnic" identity. It's especially ironic given the context: look at 8bit's original post, with its list of Arab/Muslim names and the terrible, terrible crimes they've committed or been accused of, which point inexorably to their guilt in the attacks of 9/11.
In response to which, I posted the very interesting questions Bollyn has raised about Goff, his connection to Mossad-linked firms, his abrupt and oddly-timed career-change and his true role in Ptech, a company that was inexplicably successful in garnering important and sensitive Pentagon contracts. If these don't prompt you to want to know more about this man and his connections, goody for you. Just don't start throwing stink bombs at those who would like to know more. Talk about mystifying and stupefying!
And I most certainly wasn't hiding the link, I always embed them when they're too long. It's people like you who seem to see ethnic and religious agendas when there is none whatsoever, something that has served and continues to serve the zionist agenda very, very well (unwittingly or otherwise).
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:26 pm
by AlienSpaceBat
I don't know that I would make too much of Goff, unless there's more info.
It's weird, but I was a lawyer (in the UK) and I left that profession for computing/telecoms and have been an IT contractor since the start of the 90s. Just like Goff !!!
I have worked through a whole bunch of recruitment agencies (not Kelly Girl !), and I too would have trouble remembering which agency placed me where and when.
I have been at a whole bunch of large corporations & government depts, including IBM (!), airlines, airports, NHS, oil, telecoms and internet companies and others. None of that could be taken to mean that they were co-opted by *my* conspiratorial views, or the other way around for that matter.
As I think I said ages ago, PTech is undoubtedly murky but the whole story never seems to come together in any sensible way to me, so far.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:29 pm
by Sounder
Great comeback Alice.
And thanks for writing it so fast, you saved me from posting some embarrassing bullshit.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:29 pm
by Sounder
Wombaticus Rex wrote...
The way I've always dealt with that is by harvesting data points and ignoring the author's conclusions altogether.
I mean, if I took the conclusions of Jeff Wells seriously, I would be depressed as fuck, you know?
Data matters, conclusions are just monkey opinions. Bollyn to Ruppert to Vallee to me. We're all wrong.
I am as suspicious of conclusions as the next person (except for my own, on a good day, or is that a bad day?), but man oh man, am I the only one that is tired of trading 'facts' like as if they are base ball cards?
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:49 pm
by 8bitagent
Nordic wrote:Well, okay, it only took one comment after mine for this thread to get fucked up by hatred, racism, and prejudice.
Thanks, Jack. Nice job!
If you could see past your hatred, you might notice that the actual thread is about the likely (god I know to someone like you this must seem completely IM-fucking-POSSIBLE) that, say, an Arab country like Saudi Arabia somehow colluded with a "Jew" country like Israel to commit the great crime known as 9/11.
But no, you're too busy shooting messengers right and left.
Divide and Conquer.
What a dick.
May I suggest to all who are actually interested in the content of this thread that we from now on ignore JR's comment and just get on with it?
Actually the point of my op was how integrated AI risk assessment and intelligence programming(as well as biometric control grids and A Scanner Darkly like Orwellian nightmare) is being sold NOT through post 9/11 fear....but by "hey be part of the hip new generation, its convenience simplified in a diversified smart world".
I also wanted to mention how at the very dark heart of this post Echelon beast are high level software firms that have direct ties to *both*
Western intelligence, BCCI like goons, Islamic terrorists, etc.
With 9/11 I dont believe Saudi Arabia and Israel colluded, I believe
whatever was running the program known as 9/11 tapped into elements
of both for whatever purposes. The role of strong elements within Saudi Arabia in helping the hijackers is solid, and the Israeli communication sabotage and spying in 2000-2001 America is also pretty clear.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:52 pm
by 8bitagent
JackRiddler wrote:.
@8bit: To clarify, although it means going back for the moment on my promise to depart:
No, I don't see you pushing all speculation into the "Jews did it" corner. That's Alice. I see you bringing up very interesting items, like the IBM ads (which I have seen, and which are significant), but almost always trivializing and distracting in your choice of headline and references. It should be possible to discuss the open trends in the evolving techno-capitalist nightmare without automatically bringing in the "CT" and "tinfoil" labeling (even in jest), which mentally allows people to distance themselves. I see you doing this a lot. It does no service to understanding the issues you apparently wish to address.
I understand your point. My main links however were the 2009 IBM ad spots and the brand new Wired magazine article on the CIA pretty much in the open using high level tech firms to data mine and monitor everyone.
I guess my point was that within the risk assessment intelligence and pattern recognition and prediction world, there's not only links to the very bad guys they claim to be fighting(ie: Islamic terrorism) BUT
there are also life's little coinkydinks they cannot encounter(unless the -777 dow drop was part of the program itself)
There's a new truther documentary on Ptech, Unisys and how this integrated risk architecture stuff works:
http://www.vimeo.com/5770472
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:57 pm
by 8bitagent
AlicetheKurious wrote:Oh, for pete's sake! I don't usually respond to "fuck-yous", but I do take exception to being called a racist. It's depressing to see how even someone as intelligent as you has been bamboozled into identifying with some of the world's most cold-blooded, vicious criminal elements, based on some spurious "ethnic" identity. It's especially ironic given the context: look at 8bit's original post, with its list of Arab/Muslim names and the terrible, terrible crimes they've committed or been accused of, which point inexorably to their guilt in the attacks of 9/11.
In response to which, I posted the very interesting questions Bollyn has raised about Goff, his connection to Mossad-linked firms, his abrupt and oddly-timed career-change and his true role in Ptech, a company that was inexplicably successful in garnering important and sensitive Pentagon contracts. If these don't prompt you to want to know more about this man and his connections, goody for you. Just don't start throwing stink bombs at those who would like to know more. Talk about mystifying and stupefying!
And I most certainly wasn't hiding the link, I always embed them when they're too long. It's people like you who seem to see ethnic and religious agendas when there is none whatsoever, something that has served and continues to serve the zionist agenda very, very well (unwittingly or otherwise).
The fact you and Hugh do not believe there was any Muslim involvement at all in 9/11, even in a dupe patsy role I find as ironic as the mainstream who thinks 9/11 was ALL the work of Muslim extremists.
Viktor Bout is about to be released, and Im sure he knows all too well how real the Islamic extremist groups are...afterall, he's been used by shadow factions to keep them and African genocide militias well armed for wider globalist agendas.
Why are there so many people that think Israel runs everything?
I recommend the new animated documentary Waltz With Bashir, which shows how it wasn't just Israel involved in the massacres in 1982.
These events serve MULTI purposes than simply some "Zionist" centered strategy. Israel, like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, America, England China, and the rest of the corrupt governments out there are all seemingly cogs in a much larger insidious machine.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:58 pm
by 8bitagent
Sounder wrote:Wombaticux Rex wrote...
The way I've always dealt with that is by harvesting data points and ignoring the author's conclusions altogether.
I mean, if I took the conclusions of Jeff Wells seriously, I would be depressed as fuck, you know?
Data matters, conclusions are just monkey opinions. Bollyn to Ruppert to Vallee to me. We're all wrong.
I am as suspicious of conclusions as the next person (except for my own, on a good day, or is that a bad day?), but man oh man, am I the only one that is tired of trading 'facts' like as if they are base ball cards?
Oh but isn't that what "truth" and deep political research is ultimately reduced too? A collectible trading card game. "My Steven Jones melting point beats your Poppy Magog wizard card and your Sibel Edmonds
Turkish drug connection card. I win!"