rigorousintuition.ca

Messages always require reinforcement.

There is also the arrogance factor.

(Oh, but Gates is so soft-spoken! He's not like those other Bush people! You can guess the rationalizations your Obama cheerleading types at DU give for keeping this guy in charge.)

Gates watched a movie on an airplane and the NYT reported on it. The NYT also reported on his meeting with Pakistani government officials where they asked if the US planned to take control of Pakistani nukes. Politicians take reporters with them on these kinds of trips. It makes me suppose that an NYT reporter was traveling on the airplane with Gates.

It's more rational to imagine that the NYT reporter wrote about what he witnessed, rather than what was 'released' to him after the fact.

I bet the plane carries an entire library of pre-selected movies appreciated by military types. Sometimes, old men like old movies. Today's movies are different than classics - for the most part they suck.

I'm making a lot of suppositions here, but no more than the author of the blog posted by JackRiddler. Which is why I think this "threat" against Obama is just more wishful thinking.

What would be wishful about it?

JackRiddler wrote:What would be wishful about it?

...the "wishful" part is just that Obama would need threatening because he's putting up even a shred of resistance to the JSOC/"Neo-con" agenda. That maybe Obama is a JFK about to bloom...instead of a Curtis LeMay

Wombaticus Rex wrote:

JackRiddler wrote:What would be wishful about it?

...the "wishful" part is just that Obama would need threatening because he's putting up even a shred of resistance to the JSOC/"Neo-con" agenda. That maybe Obama is a JFK about to bloom...instead of a Curtis LeMay

Even if true that wouldn't remove the utility from delivering the message once in a while.

Step back and view system and context. Context: Pakistan escalation likely clusterfuck, chaos and revival of calls to scale down, possibly even antiwar movement. Systemic factors: Obama as pres always in spotlight and conditional position, potentially susceptible to political pressures. Gates an old, very made man with nothing to lose at the head of the bureaucracy that oversees the empire. He may want to play, merely to keep Obama's mind focused. It likely has nothing to do with Obama per se or anyone else who'd be in WH; just good preventive statecraft.

Am confused by yr conflation of JSOC with "neocon" agenda. Pentagon mainstream clearly all about AfPak - that's where their minds and plans and resources have been for years. "Neocons" want a strike on Iran, which isn't popular at Pentagon. Their hardon for that hasn't changed in years, either. I'm not the least sentimental about any of these characters, just cognizant of differences they display and how these are rooted in genuine conflicts of interest and geostrategic understanding.

I think if McCain had been in, Iran would have been hit last year during election crisis. Can't prove it, but find it hard not to believe it. Does this make Obama the good guy? Irrelevant question!

Also confused by your statement Obama is not a "JFK about to bloom." JFK never bloomed either. He was a committed cold warrior full of the usual anti-Communist shit and got himself elected on propaganda about a bogus "missile gap." He likely did develop a mind of his own while in office and seems to have been considering a historic policy shift to leave Vietnam and end the cold war, but fact is, the JSOC and the politician-crazies thought he was a Commie fellow traveler long before there was any hint of deviance on his part. It's partly a cultural thing: only yahoo full-on fundamentalist Republicans can be fully trusted not to be weaklings and traitors. That wasn't different with Clinton despite his compliance with empire, and it won't necessarily be different with Obama.

Imagine that YOU might be able to see things they don't. From a distance, we can see the claimed conflicts between these characters and their factions are minimal or even kabuki, but that's not obvious to those actually entrenched behind given positions in the high bureaucracy. They actually believe in the reality of many of the conflicts they have amongst themselves. Fancy that! Again, even to the extent where committed hyper-patriots view a Kennedy or, laughably, a Clinton as a potential commie.

(We imagine too much guile on their part sometimes. Most people do not handle the excess in cognitive dissonance well that comes from always lying; their positions and self-images will tend to congeal into passionately held unities regardless of how logically conflicted these may be. They come to believe their own bullshit.)

.

JackRiddler wrote:Even if true that wouldn't remove the utility from delivering the message once in a while.

An excellent point. I always appreciate your brain, man.

and this event about the same time:

January 30, 2010, 2:51 pm
Bush Is in Town, So He Stops By the White House
By PETER BAKER
A day after meeting with House Republicans, President Obama sat down on Saturday with one of the party’s elders as he met at the White House with the first former President Bush.

Spokesmen for the White House and for Mr. Bush said the meeting was just a private visit unrelated to Mr. Obama’s latest efforts to foster a more bipartisan atmosphere in Washington. But the coincidence in timing could play into that effort at least in terms of political optics.

“The meeting was a courtesy call between the presidents,” said Jim Appleby, a spokesman for Mr. Bush. “President Bush is in town on personal business. There was no agenda for the visit this morning.”

Mr. Bush brought with him his son, former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida. It was the first meeting between the two presidents since Mr. Obama traveled to Texas last fall for a national service event with Mr. Bush. But it was the president’s second encounter with the Bush family in recent weeks, following his meeting with the second President Bush to talk about relief efforts for Haiti.

'nough said.

Waaay to creepy. I guess they read out the riot act to him in the post-63 manner.

Bill Hicks moment, anyone?

JackRiddler wrote:What would be wishful about it?

I didn't read as much mystery and intrigue into Robert Gates' taste in movies as you did.

But then justdrew posted the story about Republican Kingmakers Sr and Jr paying a social call to the White House and the picture grows more... mysterious.

Tom Engelhardt has an article up, Seven Days in January:

http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/ ... n-january/

Tom Engelhardt has an article up, Seven Days in January:

http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/ ... n-january/

Thanks for that Sweejak. Yes indeed, every week is the Pentagons week in Washington. Thats where all the money for healthcare and bullet trains and Moon bases is going. Into the machine. PK Dick was right... the Empire never died!

justdrew wrote:and this event about the same time:

January 30, 2010, 2:51 pm
Bush Is in Town, So He Stops By the White House
By PETER BAKER
A day after meeting with House Republicans, President Obama sat down on Saturday with one of the party’s elders as he met at the White House with the first former President Bush.

Spokesmen for the White House and for Mr. Bush said the meeting was just a private visit unrelated to Mr. Obama’s latest efforts to foster a more bipartisan atmosphere in Washington. But the coincidence in timing could play into that effort at least in terms of political optics.

“The meeting was a courtesy call between the presidents,” said Jim Appleby, a spokesman for Mr. Bush. “President Bush is in town on personal business. There was no agenda for the visit this morning.”

Mr. Bush brought with him his son, former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida. It was the first meeting between the two presidents since Mr. Obama traveled to Texas last fall for a national service event with Mr. Bush. But it was the president’s second encounter with the Bush family in recent weeks, following his meeting with the second President Bush to talk about relief efforts for Haiti.

Wow, that is just fucking creepy as hell.

Remember when George Senior paid a visit to Putin, early on in GWB's "presidency?" It was just like this, they said he was in Russia "on personal business" and it was just a coincidence that he figgered he'd drop by and say "HI" to his old buddy Putin.

I should look that up, if I can find it, and see what the date was of that. Might be telling.

Christ, just tried to google it, very difficult to google with any of those names. I remember it quite clearly, there was even a photo or two. Just don't remember exactly when it was.

Wow, that is just fucking creepy as hell.

Remember when George Senior paid a visit to Putin, early on in GWB's "presidency?" It was just like this, they said he was in Russia "on personal business" and it was just a coincidence that he figgered he'd drop by and say "HI" to his old buddy Putin.

I should look that up, if I can find it, and see what the date was of that. Might be telling.

Christ, just tried to google it, very difficult to google with any of those names. I remember it quite clearly, there was even a photo or two. Just don't remember exactly when it was.

Yeah, what has always been creepy to me is the fact that the head of the CIA became president. I have forever questioned that to the apparent obliviousness of others. Not one soul I have ever mentioned that to, has ever gotten it. Anyways hey, sometimes you can do an image search that will find old articles for you. If I had time I'd look.

For this problem you can try an image search with both full names.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&c ... 20&ndsp=20

However, the first-page hits are of Putin in Texas with Bush Sr. and Baker at Rice University in November 2001. Is this perhaps what you recall, or do you think it was a different occasion with Bush Sr. in Russia?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... 001-23.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... 001-26.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vladi ... 001-25.jpg

http://www.answers.com/topic/rice-university

It was Bush Sr. visiting Putin in Russia. If I recall, they were in some sort of summer house, maybe Putin's dacha, or else at some resort area.

And it was passed off as a casual "hey I happened to be in Russia and thought I'd drop by" thing, which was obviously a lie.

I'll try what you're saying and see if I can figure something out. I'm down with a terrible head cold today and am just looking for work (as always) so I have some time right now.


Okay, found some stuff. First off, a hilarious photo of Putin, with a very funny caption:



"I don't know why, but I fear for the fish. "

Yeah, me too.

From this blog, which seems pretty interesting:

http://cakeeaterchronicles.com/taxonomy/term/25

But I also found a record of what I believe is the meeting that I was trying to remember:

http://www.mgrfoundation.org/ThreesomeOfSaviors.html

In Yahoo European News of Sun Sept. 14, 2003 -1:46 PM ET (6) we read:

SOCHI, Russia - Former President George H.W. Bush met Vladimir Putin upon arriving Sunday in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, less than two weeks ahead of his son's talks with the Russian leader.
Bush and his wife, Barbara, traveled to Sochi on a plane provided by the airline that serves Putin and other Russia government figures. Putin, his black Labrador retriever nearby, greeted them on the tarmac in English, shaking Bush's hand and giving Barbara a bouquet of roses.

Putin rarely meets even high-level visitors at the airport, and Bush thanked him for his "extraordinary courtesy." "I can tell you our president will be overcome with gratitude for the way you are treating Barbara and me," Bush said.

We further read....

Bush, who visited the White House before leaving for St. Petersburg, Russia, last week, said Sunday "our president has a great feeling not only of respect (but) of friendship for President Putin. This is not diplomatic language, this is right from the heart."

The warm words set a cordial tone for the summit, which comes as Russia and the United States seek to patch up relations after deep disagreement over the war in Iraq (news - web sites) and continued debate about the postwar situation.

The Kremlin said last week that Putin and the younger Bush will meet Sept. 26 at Camp David.

As if that were not enough we also read...

The Russian news agency ITAR-Tasssaid the elder Bush also will meet with Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Soviet leader, who stepped down in 1991 as the Soviet Union collapsed during the elder Bush's presidency.

Russian news agencies quoted an unidentified Kremlin official as saying Saturday that talks in Sochi would focus on the development of Russian-U.S. relations over the past decade and opportunities presented by the upcoming summit.

So. It appears it was after the invasion of Iraq. And of course of Afghanistan. One Godfather meeting another Godfather.

And God only knows what they really talked about.

I do remember it was played way way down in the American media that Bush Sr. was there at all. They passed it off as a "hey, he just happened to be in Russia so he figured he'd drop by and say "hi"" but at the time I remember it really got my attention. At the time I figured it was Bush Sr. doing damage control for his idiot son's debacle. And hell, maybe it was, but any time that guy just drops in on you, it's serious business.

And now Obama has started to talk back to his GOP masters a bit, and they're worried he might be getting too big for his britches, right? Getting "uppity". These are reminders of "hey, don't forget who you're really working for here, boy, you understand?"