What you don't know can't hurt them.
https://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/
https://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?t=35541
Absolutely relative are all conceptions of human thought.Seamus OBlimey wrote:So only an unthinking mind can feel?
I think not.
I don't like absolutes.
Feck! I sound like HoL.
so, a feeling mind cannot think? does that make sense?MacCruiskeen wrote:Via Ran Prieur, who writes:
October 1. A set of ten studies suggests that intuition promotes cooperation, but rational thought turns us selfish. This reminds me of a strange speculative piece from a few years back: In a fast society slow emotions become extinct. A thinking mind cannot feel.
Xenophon
From Memorabilia or Recollections of Socrates
Translated by H. G. Dakyns
I see (replied Euthydemus) you are afraid I cannot expound the works of righteousness! Why, bless me! of course I can, and the works of unrighteousness into the bargain, since there are not a few of that sort within reach of eye and ear every day.
Shall we then (proceeded Socrates) write the letter R on this side, and on that side the letter W; and then anything that appears to us to be the product of righteousness we will place to the R account, and anything which appears to be the product of wrong-doing and iniquity to the account of W?
By all means do so (he answered), if you think that it assists matters.
Accordingly Socrates drew the letters, as he had suggested, and continued.
Soc. Lying exists among men, does it not?
Euth. Certainly.
To which side of the account then shall we place it? (he asked).
Euth. Clearly on the side of wrong and injustice.
Soc. Deceit too is not uncommon?
Euth. By no means.
Soc. To which side shall we place deceit?
Euth. Deceit clearly on the side of wrong.
Soc. Well, and chicanery or mischief of any sort?
Euth. That too.
Soc. And the enslavement of free-born men?
Euth. That too.
Soc. And we cannot allow any of these to lie on the R side of the account, to the side of right and justice, can we, Euthydemus?
It would be monstrous (he replied).
Soc. Very good. But supposing a man to be elected general, and he succeeds in enslaving an unjust, wicked, and hostile state, are we to say that he is doing wrong?
Euth. By no means.
Soc. Shall we not admit that he is doing what is right?
Euth. Certainly.
Soc. Again, suppose he deceives the foe while at war with them?
Euth. That would be all fair and right also.
Soc. Or steals and pillages their property? would he not be doing what is right?
Euth. Certainly; when you began I thought you were limiting the question to the case of friends.
Soc. So then everything which we set down on the side of Wrong will now have to be placed to the credit of Right?
Euth. Apparently.
Tim Parks wrote:Astrology was a bridge too far for me.
I was eager for new stories, but they had to be stories I could
believe in, or at least such that I could suspend disbelief.
‘Let’s go back to the physical side.’ But I stopped myself:
‘Or are you telling me it’s entirely psychosomatic?’
A slow smile spread across the doctor’s face. ‘That’s not a
word we have much use for, Mr Parks.’
I looked at him.
‘You only say psychosomatic,’ his wife explained, ‘if you
think that body and mind are ever separate.’
It was a pretty productive paradigm while it lasted, though. My apologies in advance to those at RI with whose interpretation of the movie this doesn't align, as well as my respects, since I'm really only speaking for myself. But it's pretty much what I'd say this was about, too:Wombaticus Rex wrote:Reminds me of something I read this morning:
http://pastehtml.com/view/cdoca09bx.html
"The Urge to Self Destruction" by Arthur Koestler ... definitely a bit dated, which kind of enhances the brainfood value....for instance:
Well, these days the data is telling us something pretty different -- we are far from unique in that respect. Lots more paradigm shift gems in the mix, but you can connect your own dots, after all.This leads to the third symptom: intraspecific warfare in permanence, with its sub-varieties of mass persecution and genocide. The popular confusion between predatory and bellicose behaviour tends to obscure the fact that the law of the jungle permits predation on other species, but forbids war within one's own; and that homo sapiens is the unique offender against this law (apart from some controversial warlike phenomena among rats and ants).
the basis is flawed. people feel all the time, in all circumstance, except "psychopaths" apparently.Seamus OBlimey wrote:So only an unthinking mind can feel?
I think not.
I don't like absolutes.
Feck! I sound like HoL.
I think those are two radically different things worth distinguishing between. I know people say "I meditated on my divorce/near-death-experience/business failure/artistic success", meaning: they thought about those things. But that's not meditation as I understand it. Meditation as I understand it is just breathing and being, and allowing thoughts to arise and pass, and noticing them as they arise and pass. And then carrying on breathing, without making a meal of it, for ever and ever, so to speak.BenD wrote:thought (meditation)
BINGO.MacCruiskeen wrote:...Meditation as I understand it is just breathing and being, and allowing thoughts to arise and pass, and noticing them as they arise and pass. And then carrying on breathing, without making a meal of it, for ever and ever, so to speak.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but it was the phrase 'study reality without using thought' for which I intended (meditation) to apply.MacCruiskeen wrote:I think those are two radically different things worth distinguishing between. I know people say "I meditated on my divorce/near-death-experience/business failure/artistic success", meaning: they thought about those things. But that's not meditation as I understand it. Meditation as I understand it is just breathing and being, and allowing thoughts to arise and pass, and noticing them as they arise and pass. And then carrying on breathing, without making a meal of it, for ever and ever, so to speak.BenD wrote:thought (meditation)
Grrr.Allegro wrote:BINGO.MacCruiskeen wrote:...Meditation as I understand it is just breathing and being, and allowing thoughts to arise and pass, and noticing them as they arise and pass. And then carrying on breathing, without making a meal of it, for ever and ever, so to speak.
I might be wrong, but I don’t recall someone saying it quite like that at RI. That’s almost my personal definition of meditation, too.
Thanks, Mac.
I think I might have passed on that one a couple of times while dreaming of other threads or something. Because it looks kind of familiar. And also because I'm sure this isn't the first time I've asked myself: "Really? Its origin has? How?"Hammer of Los wrote:...
Meditating does actually effect change in the world.
Tim Parks wrote:Astrology was a bridge too far for me.
I was eager for new stories, but they had to be stories I could
believe in, or at least such that I could suspend disbelief.
‘Let’s go back to the physical side.’ But I stopped myself:
‘Or are you telling me it’s entirely psychosomatic?’
A slow smile spread across the doctor’s face. ‘That’s not a
word we have much use for, Mr Parks.’
I looked at him.
‘You only say psychosomatic,’ his wife explained, ‘if you
think that body and mind are ever separate.’
The psychosomatic origin of illness is proven.
...
I think it's safe to say most if not all of us here take great joy in thinking, however one wants to define thinking, which for me should be pretty wide open and inclusive of many different cognitive abilities/pursuits. Really the op is as mac says "strange and thought provoking". But the ideas rpesented are so broad and poorly defined as to be not much more than that.Seamus OBlimey wrote:No room for joy in that equation then?Empathy = Sadness + Worry ( for the suffering of others )
It will be found that empathy activates the same parts of the brain (neural circuits ) which are activated by sadness and worry. The chemical changes in the brain and the rest of the body are also the same.
Sadness and worry ( for the suffering of others ) are emotions of the highest level.
