Why Do People Apologize For Russia?

[JackRiddler]

The Russian elites have always natural allies of the Anglo-American elites. This was true every time that push came to shove: 1809, 1914, 1941. Even the Cold War diversion was an engineered stable state between natural allies. It will continue to be true now that the common enemy is China. That's why people apologize for Russia.

I miss you DrVolin. But this only works if you omit the two hot rounds of the "Great Game" in Afghanistan in the 1840s and 1870s, that rather dramatic direct war with Russia in the Crimea in the late 1850s, and the British financing of the Japanese war machine leading up to the 1905 war against Russia. And a lot more than that. Russia was the enemy until just prior to 1914, and that only because Germany was understood to be the greater threat.

[brekin]

fucking finally. RT exposed and called out for their shit, live on tv. bravo man, bravo.

Yes. That guy should get an award.

[Jerky]

Damn, it feels good to be in agreement with you every once in a while, Wombat.

Have you ever tried sitting through an entire episode of Redacted Tonight?

The bogus "woke" accelerationism preached there (precisely because it is bogus... and harmless) rings in the exact same tone I hear emanating from certain acquaintances conversations, which sometimes sound something like:

"Yes yes yes, Trump is an abomination, of course! But if you think about it, the REAL bad guys in all this are Hillary Clinton, anybody still defending her, and President Obama for failing to make Obamacare a universal single payer program."

Cheers!
yer old pal Jerky

Behold: the power of propaganda. Those billions don't get spent on messaging because it's a corporate culture fad, like cloud computing or "Software as a Service." That shit works and those dividends are huge.

I would submit that precise ambient acceptance (and embrace!) by the US, shall we say, non-critical-thinking Left is largely thanks to RT.COM, which was worth every penny.

[dada]

RT is useful in that it is an easy, clear example of the Propaganda Model of the media at work (as the theory goes, "the societal purpose of the media is to inculcate and defend the economic, social, and political agenda of privileged groups that dominate the domestic society and the state"). The Putin narrative is obvious; manufacturing discontent in the West. Western media manufactures its own narrative. The model is essentially the same, though.

When asked, "How do we get from here, a corporate controlled media, to where we want to be, enjoying a truly democratic and plural media scene?" Part of the response from the authors of Manufacturing Consent was, "We cannot move to a truly democratic and plural media scene without a radical change in the political economy, which is to say, some kind of economic and political revolution. As noted, the existing media and political systems are mutually supportive, so that media change is not on the media’s agenda, nor on the political agenda."

It is nice to imagine that we could indoctrinate freedom and equality through propagandizing a different narrative. However, that kind of goes against the whole nature of freedom and equality, if you think about it.

It would be an easy solution. The reality is the difficult work. As society changes, the media changes. Since they're mutually supportive, it will be a mutual process. Until then, I think it's probably helpful to continue to develop and teach critical reading through example and discussion. Reading between the lines as an exercise. This is why I appreciate when people comment on the articles they post. It encourages analysis, instead of social media-style thumbs ups. A "framework of understanding" is built. That should be ongoing.

This isn't to say that media subversion doesn't have a place in overall strategy. "Tilting at media windmills" is an angle to work. What form the subversion takes is what matters. As we can see, 'post-truth fake-news' only serves to reinforce the propaganda model.

[MacCruiskeen]

Why Do People Apologise For Italy? My best pal had his guitar stolen there, yet people still refuse to declare war on the damn place.

It was a good guitar, too, dammit.

[Sounder]

There is no need to apologize for Russia.

Russia helped achieve the liberation of eastern Allepo from outside sponsored headchoppers.

Allepo's liberation is a roadblock to the planned carnage to come and therefor a good thing.

The people that cannot accept this are dyed in the wool western exceptionalists.

Doesn't all that death and destruction just make you feel proud?

Maybe next time, not so many people will find it to be a good idea to get paid to revolt. Assholes hearts are just not in it.


dada wrote...

It is nice to imagine that we could indoctrinate freedom and equality through propagandizing a different narrative. However, that kind of goes against the whole nature of freedom and equality, if you think about it.

Ah, but you can. Any framework for understanding indoctrinates one way or another. While our current split model of reality 'propagandizes' that reality is made up of objects, and that 'success' is measured by ones ability to manipulates those objects, we may still create a model that recognizes that reality is made of relationships, not objects. Only then will we become able to give substance to ideas like freedom and equality.

[MacCruiskeen]

we may still create a model that recognizes that reality is made of relationships, not objects

Sounder, have you been reading Whitehead?

[8bitagent]

I have changed my tune of Russia. If Russia helped exposed the corrupt DNC, stopped the idiot Jeb!-Cruz-Rubio hydra...and helped....


wait now just a second....President Donnie and Putin, where have I seen this story before? Oh yes...
the 1980s are back!!!!!

[Sounder]

Sounder wrote:
we may still create a model that recognizes that reality is made of relationships, not objects


Mac wrote...

Sounder, have you been reading Whitehead?

No, but Morris Berman covers these ideas in his book 'The Reenchantment of the World'

And I see that Whitehead is referenced on pg. 127, while Mr. Berman is speaking directly to these ideas.

[dada]

I really can't argue whether or not there was a genuine popular uprising initially in Syria which was co-opted, as I wasn't there.

If there was, we'd have to assume that it was not in any state interests to support it, and it would be ignored by the media, and erased from the mainstream historical narrative. That would be a shame, though unsurprising. But anyway, that as we say, is that.

dada wrote...

It is nice to imagine that we could indoctrinate freedom and equality through propagandizing a different narrative. However, that kind of goes against the whole nature of freedom and equality, if you think about it.

Ah, but you can. Any framework for understanding indoctrinates one way or another. While our current split model of reality 'propagandizes' that reality is made up of objects, and that 'success' is measured by ones ability to manipulate those objects, we may still create a model that recognizes that reality is made of relationships, not objects. Only then will we become able to give substance to ideas like freedom and equality.

I can, sure. The question is, can one indoctrinate others in this way. To me, freedom and equality would imply an absence of indoctrination, no coercion from the outside.

Self-indoctrination would be a sort of negative-indoctrination. Maybe to put it better: If self-propagandizing is self-programming, this would be self-deprogramming. But doing it for yourself is one thing. De-programming others isn't possible, in my experience. No one changes until they're ready to change themselves.

So we must rely on freedom and equality indoctrination and propaganda. Is that real freedom and equality? Wouldn't people indoctrinated this way be easily manipulated? We'd have to have coca-cola sized advertising budgets to keep the people "free." Doesn't seem economical. Or like true freedom.

[OP ED]

Indoctrination to freedom may be a logical impossibility but targeted counter propaganda can be used to destroy obstacles to liberation and help create circumstances that encourage self actualization. On the broad spectrum, pogroms can be designed to teach critical thinking skills through interactive reality games. In certain fields this is accomplished through an initiatory process.

[JackRiddler]

Indoctrination to freedom may be a logical impossibility but targeted counter propaganda can be used to destroy obstacles to liberation and help create circumstances that encourage self actualization. On the broad spectrum, pogroms can be designed to teach critical thinking skills through interactive reality games. In certain fields this is accomplished through an initiatory process.

A mistake? You mean programs?

[seemslikeadream]

it is insane that one can not say anything bad about Putin/Russia

[MacCruiskeen]

it is insane that one can not say anything bad about Putin/Russia

It is insane to assert that one cannot say anything bad about Putin/Russia.

It is insane to insinuate that anyone here, except you, has ever asserted that one cannot say anything bad about Putin/Russia.

I think you mean "may not", by the way. In either case, it is a deranged assertion.

[seemslikeadream]

there is a deranged assertion here but it is not me

deranged assertions get suspended