rigorousintuition.ca

**Spoilers**

Meh. There really wasn't anything in the finale that blew my socks off. Honestly it was a little pat. Basically the "handyman did it". Who happens to be your typical swamp rat ogre who lives in a huge shitty house who makes murals and really big crafty dream catchers in the elaborate tunnel system near his house. I guess the flowers represent each victim? And supposedly there is a long line of victims trailing back to probably the Louisianian Purchase and a big network of powerful pedos involved? Yeah, none of that gets followed up. The scary thing when you read about the Franklin Scandal, the B.C. pig farm, etc is the normality and strings of influence involved in it. True Detective basically went "troll under the bridge". Instead of following the money it just focused on the scarred hermit handyman who has really bad hygiene and the hoarder girlfriend (relative). I wanted the no doubt photogenic Senator relative instead. Marty seems fine with that, and Kohle seems too busted to pursue it. I'd hold out judgement if it looked like Season 2 would pursue the same line in another direction but it looks like it is going to jump location and characters? Cop out.

I think it diminishes the source material when it is just used as fodder for plot devices and is only a convenient wrapper for your typical police procedural. I mean this is fiction, why not get specific in the series about the power structure? The allusions to Senator Tuttle were weak and abstract. I mean everyone has got a senator somewhere in their family tree. Connect the bohemian grove like dots for us. More time was invested in the paranormal identity of the Yellow King and Carcosa lines which, lets be honest, went nowhere. The eater of time, the whorls, time loops, etc, all dead ends. Peoples theories and conjectures about such things were more elaborate and creative then what the show ended up delivering. True Detective started to stray into territory that Lost did, but then dropped it like a hot potatoe. Sorry, but Pizzolatto is just a tourist with this stuff (the paranormal and occult conspiracy) creating a pinterest of these themes instead of an illuminated manuscript.

I think the show is harmless if approached like American Horror Story but if it is pulling from live content I think it needs to raise the bar more than a bit. I mean Red Riding told the same story (without the paranormal window dressing) and did it much more convincingly and revealed the power structure much more cleanly.

If you don't honor the source material then you can actually diminish and exploit what the material is based on. (Honestly if True Detective was really ground breaking, it would be hella disturbing and wouldn't be pap for Kimmel and Rogen to ape). I started to have this macro-analysis troubling orientation to watching it in episode 7.
First, the scene when Marty finds the baby in the microwave has to be one of the most disturbing things I've seen ever.
The choice to actually show Marty looking into the microwave with the camera looking at his face reaction was fucked.
Obviously shit like like that does happen. There usually a similar story on CNN every 9 days. And I don't fault the show for having that
be the reason why Marty retires...but to show it so graphically, that is fucked. Also it would be just as powerful, perhaps even more, if we just have a close-up
of Marty relating the story to us. Dramatically it is important, but graphically it doesn't serve any purpose other than to be deviant and outrageous.

Secondly, and related, Rust having Marty watch the ritual killing videotape of the girl, while we watch Marty's reaction, well, kind of the same deal.
Marty watches some of it, freaks, and then asks Rust "Did you watch all of it?", Rust responds something like, "I had to. I won't turn my eyes away again."
I take the meaning to be, "I'm going to go after whoever is responsible this time regardless." But there also an element of Hemingway's "don't turn your eyes from the train wreck" stoicism and also plain old 2 girls one cup sick voyeurism. Again, why not have Marty view the video off screen? Like when they had the sheriff view the video?

I look at it this way. At some point networks of sick powerful fucks sacrificed and/or exploited some innocent people wholesale and got away with it. But the recognition of the crimes and societal structure of them has entered the public consciousness to a limited extent through the backdoor. A show is using this material, and related material, not to confront the public with this disturbing reality but as light entertainment. The themes are heavy and dark, yes. But the analysis, depth and scope of the endeavor aren't very disturbing to the status quo. I doubt anyone familiar with such themes learned anything or felt it challenged at all the official script on such matters. Those unfamiliar probably read it as one inbred powerful family down south having a long run at ritualized murder with some conspiracy and X-files sprinkles on top.

I got to be honest to, the conclusion while having some nice moments and cinematography was pretty underwhelming. Basically, it was a Bush speech. "There is just one story. Light vs. dark." There are the evil doers and then there are the good guys. I expect that level of insight and depth from a He-Man cartoon. True Detective has done what I thought was seemingly impossible. Taking material that challenges core realities for most people when they really are confronted with them and McDonaldized it for mass consumption. Sigh, I wanted it to work. I really did. Oh well, spin the wheel. True Detective was just not the R.I. The Wire I wanted it to be. It was more like the R.I. Starsky and Hutch.

They sort of went for Buffy the vampyre slayer for the last episode, no? With the cgi and voice out of nowhere and stuff.. and then a happy ending with a good moral like in those he-man episodes, only mumbled so you could hardly understand it.



And surpise surpise turns out poor ugly people in dirty houses were the bad guys after all.. what a crap series. They didn't even address the antlers with which the series started, and which set off the follow up investigation in 2002 or soemthing.

I have to agree with Brekin. Now I'll have to watch Red Riding:

Savile was not a Liverpudlian he was from Leeds, rumours about him have circulated in Leeds for 30 years, he apparently got at least 2 schoolgilrs (13yo) pregant over the years there who were moved away and had abortions, always girls or boys nobody would give a shit about as is the way of this type of thing its careful. He was basically a gangster when he ran clubs in Manchester and Leeds and Bradford in the 60s and not someone to be crossed even by the police who up north were corrupt then. Watch the tv show Red Riding, or read the books and think about who some of the characters might be based on. Or the Irvine Welsh story ‘Lorraine goes to Washington’
http://www.maxfarquar.com/2011/10/jimmy ... isturbing/

Luther, it may help your Reddit thread if you point out that it was Yorkshire TV that produced "Conspiracy of Silence, which I always thought was an odd detail, but which makes perfect sense now, in light of the Savile revelations ie they couldn't take on Savile and their local crime syndicate so they profiled a foreign equivalent hoping for some breakthrough?

Here's some material for you: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... 18#p538118

Luther Blissett » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:24 pm wrote:

Zombie Glenn Beck » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:24 pm wrote:

Luther Blissett » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:08 pm wrote:I would like to link the True Detective subreddit to the Franklin Case today, because they displayed some quite adept investigative tics of their own in analyzing the show. I think some of them, now that the first season of a piece of media entertainment has ended, could be convinced to take on something real life that may have the power to potentially help someone.

Is there a single clean, well-presented, well-researched overview of the case that I could present as a gateway? I only know of the longer works or the more convoluted, complex, and (frankly) elitist overviews that almost seem set up to turn people away.

Conspiracy of Silence is probably the best intro to the case you can find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvl6kO1Vo8

Thanks. http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/c ... ases_just/

You'll have to pardon the elementary nature of my overview, errors, inaccuracies, or glaring oversight on my part. I tried to balance brevity and clarity (another reason why I like this place is the community's appreciation of thoroughness, something lacking elsewhere) in hopes of any kind of effectiveness there.

Red Riding is really excellent, and is possibly where we Brits get our own back on the Americans.... exchanging unintelligible Yorkshire accents for Deep South ones.
I viewed it before any Saville revelations, and may have to watch it again soon. Being from that area, and knowing that time period, it is pretty authentic.

"hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of California's transportation system" in a 1947/2012 dual timeframe is the tagline for Season 2. Sounds good. Then again I loved the movie Changeling.

brekin » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:54 pm wrote: "There is just one story. Light vs. dark." There are the evil doers and then there are the good guys.
I expect that level of insight and depth from a He-Man cartoon.

There seems to be a fair amount of overlap between He-Man and RI.

All hail King Homer!

"There is just one story. Light vs. dark."

Not true.

IanEye » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am wrote:

Luther Blissett » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:24 pm wrote: Thanks. http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/c ... ases_just/

You'll have to pardon the elementary nature of my overview, errors, inaccuracies, or glaring oversight on my part. I tried to balance brevity and clarity (another reason why I like this place is the community's appreciation of thoroughness, something lacking elsewhere) in hopes of any kind of effectiveness there.

I hope you get some good feedback and info.
There seems to be a lot of chaff on reddit.

They seemed to hate it. Including commentary from one gatekeeper whose sole post on the True Detective subreddit was to come on and discredit Franklin.

Most comments criticized the fact that I mentioned a youth spent in the scouts as one of my early reasons for getting involved in activism fighting abuse, even though I make no connection between SRA and the scouts (though I probably could if I really wanted to). I kept mentioning "helping kids" and getting downvoted.

Isnt it a little early to declare True Detective to be ruined forever? This wasnt the ending of the show, just the season. And we dont know how the next season is going to be handled, it could be completely unrelated but my moneys on them tying it in somehow. The "Light vs Dark" monologue wasnt meant to be the final moral of the show imo, but to show how Rusts character had grown. For someone as pessimistic and world weary as Rust to say that Good was winning shows a lot character development. For going after the larger conspiracy, if you pay attention to the news that Rust watches at the end they did. The newscaster says something along the lines of "so and so is denying any connections between Senator Tuttle and the killings...", that sort of implies that people were accusing him of being connected. Remember Rust had a huge list of people who were connected to this, and all of that went into those files he sent out to law enforcement and the media. What else could he do, realistically? Having Rust single handedly take down the entire conspiracy would have seemed contrived, and it wouldnt be keeping with the nature of the show. Remember "nothing is ever finished".

Sneaky fuckers.

The ending reminds me more of Dutroux than of Franklin.

In the Belgium monster case, 9 witnesses came forward to describe being abused and witness to a secret cabal of powerful Belgium elites who raped, tortured and killed kidnapped kids. The kids were kidnapped by Marcous Dutroux.
One of the witnesses accurately described an old farm compound, and sure enough one of the young kidnapped girls was found buried there.

However it seemed the group disbanded, leaving Dutroux to be the primary person kidnapping kids for his own sick pleasure. And he was caught, with the "elite pedo ring" never being caught. However, the road to stopping Dutroux was hit with many roadblocks by unknown higher ups

This is 100% the plot of true detective.

8bitagent wrote:

The ending reminds me more of Dutroux than of Franklin.

In the Belgium monster case, 9 witnesses came forward to describe being abused and witness to a secret cabal of powerful Belgium elites who raped, tortured and killed kidnapped kids. The kids were kidnapped by Marcous Dutroux.One of the witnesses accurately described an old farm compound, and sure enough one of the young kidnapped girls was found buried there.

However it seemed the group disbanded, leaving Dutroux to be the primary person kidnapping kids for his own sick pleasure. And he was caught, with the "elite pedo ring" never being caught. However, the road to stopping Dutroux was hit with many roadblocks by unknown higher ups

This is 100% the plot of true detective.

Well Dutroux was taken alive and provided information about some of his crimes initially and his case was tied up in the court for years before it even went to trial. While the trial was hardly conclusive about everything it finally did get to trial and some of the crimes were explored. Supposedly, many witnesses involved died mysterious deaths but Dutroux himself is still alive to this day. If authorities wanted to they could go pump him for answers day and night. If Dutroux was Belgiums version of True Detective, though, he would have been killed on first contact with the cops.

Admittedly, Childress is portrayed as a Dutroux-type courier for more powerful people, the show though, True Detective, cuts off that line of pursuit itself. Which, like I've said, I think is the major flaw. What the "higher ups" did supposedly with Dutroux the show does itself, shutting down the real investigation. What does Marty say? "We didn't get everyone. That doesn't happen in the real world anyways. But we got our man. That's all you can ask for."
That's the equivalent of not pursuing the CIA/Contra/Iron Triangle cocaine network because you busted your local crack dealer. If they are jumping locations, cast and story line, I don't see how they are going resolve what they originally peeled back. I for one probably wouldn't have followed the series as closely if it was just another chase after a serial killer who happens to have some big names in his rolodex that never get rung up.

Dutroux hasn't been assassinated or legally executed so if there is a higher ring involved they are obviously confident enough that he's not going to reveal anything that will damage them. I'd say that is not 100% the plot of True Detective. True Detective has Reggie Ledoux, DeWall, and Errol Childress all the primary perpetrators snuffed on immediate contact, (and two other secondary perps, Tuttle & the jailhouse suicide pretty much also) before they can elaborate on anything or even admit to anything. There is no interview with the devil in True Detective really. There is no progression or growth really either regarding the existence and origin of The Yellow King or Carcosa. Ledoux's cell mate basically gives the plot and conclusion away in like episode 3. "Some good killing down south with some Satanic folks" I mean they could have wikipedia'd some historical cajun voodoo old south plantation secret society aristocracy stuff and data dumped that and it would have been better then just repeatedly name dropping the special guest star Yellow King who never really shows up. True Detective ultimately failed at exploring the issues in-depth and finding the sources of networks or systematic perpetuation and protection. It was The Great Yellow King Hope for the occult/conspiracy crowd that ended up being just an atmospheric, well shot "Get Bubba" cop chaser.

brekin » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:29 pm wrote:8bitagent wrote:

The ending reminds me more of Dutroux than of Franklin.

In the Belgium monster case, 9 witnesses came forward to describe being abused and witness to a secret cabal of powerful Belgium elites who raped, tortured and killed kidnapped kids. The kids were kidnapped by Marcous Dutroux.One of the witnesses accurately described an old farm compound, and sure enough one of the young kidnapped girls was found buried there.

However it seemed the group disbanded, leaving Dutroux to be the primary person kidnapping kids for his own sick pleasure. And he was caught, with the "elite pedo ring" never being caught. However, the road to stopping Dutroux was hit with many roadblocks by unknown higher ups

This is 100% the plot of true detective.

Well Dutroux was taken alive and provided information about some of his crimes initially and his case was tied up in the court for years before it even went to trial. While the trial was hardly conclusive about everything it finally did get to trial and some of the crimes were explored. Supposedly, many witnesses involved died mysterious deaths but Dutroux himself is still alive to this day. If authorities wanted to they could go pump him for answers day and night. If Dutroux was Belgiums version of True Detective, though, he would have been killed on first contact with the cops.

Admittedly, Childress is portrayed as a Dutroux-type courier for more powerful people, the show though, True Detective, cuts off that line of pursuit itself. Which, like I've said, I think is the major flaw. What the "higher ups" did supposedly with Dutroux the show does itself, shutting down the real investigation. What does Marty say? "We didn't get everyone. That doesn't happen in the real world anyways. But we got our man. That's all you can ask for."
That's the equivalent of not pursuing the CIA/Contra/Iron Triangle cocaine network because you busted your local crack dealer. If they are jumping locations, cast and story line, I don't see how they are going resolve what they originally peeled back. I for one probably wouldn't have followed the series as closely if it was just another chase after a serial killer who happens to have some big names in his rolodex that never get rung up.

Dutroux hasn't been assassinated or legally executed so if there is a higher ring involved they are obviously confident enough that he's not going to reveal anything that will damage them. I'd say that is not 100% the plot of True Detective. True Detective has Reggie Ledoux, DeWall, and Errol Childress all the primary perpetrators snuffed on immediate contact, (and two other secondary perps, Tuttle & the jailhouse suicide pretty much also) before they can elaborate on anything or even admit to anything. There is no interview with the devil in True Detective really. There is no progression or growth really either regarding the existence and origin of The Yellow King or Carcosa. Ledoux's cell mate basically gives the plot and conclusion away in like episode 3. "Some good killing down south with some Satanic folks" I mean they could have wikipedia'd some historical cajun voodoo old south plantation secret society aristocracy stuff and data dumped that and it would have been better then just repeatedly name dropping the special guest star Yellow King who never really shows up. True Detective ultimately failed at exploring the issues in-depth and finding the sources of networks or systematic perpetuation and protection. It was The Great Yellow King Hope for the occult/conspiracy crowd that ended up being just an atmospheric, well shot "Get Bubba" cop chaser.

100% agreed. It's my #1 gripe about the finale of True Detective. They exhaustively build up this case, this "sprawl", and then drop it in the end. Oh, all the work of a lone backwards sister screwing redneck nutjob. It's like wait, then who killed guy francis and Reverend Tuttle? And continues to cover it up? And spot on analogy wrt the stopping at local LA crack dealer vs the iran contra/cia/cocaine/barry seal stuff.

For the people who claim True Detective isnt based on anything true, just "satanic panic".... I offer them THIS
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 70112.html
Rarely, if ever discussed in conspiracy circles, let alone the mainstream, it's 100% proven that a secret cabal was using orphanages to use children as sex slaves for politicians, business men,high society and celebrities

You're right Dutroux is alive still. Originally saying he was the tip of the iceberg, he since has kept shut. But if we look at Khalid Sheikh Mohamed and ayman al-Zawahiri, they will go to their grave espousing they "acted independently". Yet we now know 100% conclusively at the very least Saudi intelligence and Saudi elites were guiding the hijackers at every step inside America. While Oswald was adament about being a patsy, Tim Mcveigh was adament he worked alone. I bet if Hart and Cohle had arrested Errol Childress, he too would claim he had worked alone and there was no higher ups other than his dead dad.

It's interesting Pakistani ISI did not kill Omar Saeed Sheikh, when he definitely was a liability. Oswald was killed by Ruby, then Ruby died of cancer.

best spoof I've seen