Quantum Physics in Action

4911 · Post by **4911** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:49 am

um, whatever. Some people are simply addicted to suffering. Go ahead and make yourselves happy by being miserable.

blanc · Post by **blanc** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:50 am

...of mental illness is a job for professionals and can't be done on-line . 4 of us who have experience in survivor support or who are survivors, have offered what we can 4911 - you don't have to take it, its free and has no strings, but only you can decide if its useful for you. the questions you posed and reposed are one line sentences describing complex situations from one standpoint. (suicide/is drink & drugs a no-no etc). What can anyone say - it depends what else is happening, what made it happen/what you already tried and what the reaction was/ what anyone in the situation is feeling and so on. You can have a step by step instruction on breaking down and cleaning a weapon, you can't have a step by step instruction on suicide ideation, arguments, effects of drugs on unstable events, love and hate, memory, happiness, misery,violence,depression. Its no good getting ratty with people because they can't give you what they don't have. A question needs to be posed so that an answer is possible if you want one, and it needs be posed to someone who can give you an answer. Anything I could possibly say is prefaced in big letters with 'don't blame the victim' , and that seems to be a first step you can't take, you told me to bug off. Notwithstanding that, I pointed you to a resource pile, where you'll find good stuff by other, better qualified people than me. btw - peanut logic - I like peanuts. cheap and nutritious. tasty and crunchy. the country I live in has developed an emergency nutrition bar for sending out to disaster zones, packed with peanuts - one a day keeps starvation at bay. don't knock peanuts. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

4911 · Post by **4911** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:54 am

Blanc - now that was an answer. Thanks. Sheez, that was difficult.

havanagilla · Post by **havanagilla** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:29 am

i am thankful for the (at last) articulation by both DE and LyliP re the murky situation of being an unconscious whore, or appearing to be someone who likes sleeping with important guys (as you put it DE). To explain how at least ONE "sale" went in my life and the kind of explanation I provided to myself, i recall that at a certain stage, while being off/on with my spouse/handler, we decided to break up (interestingly, he would make me do the breaking up, but the more I udnertand the situation now, the more I understand he was manipulating it that way). Then, "someone" introduces me to a 'date', that someone is a friend of my handler/spouse, but I discount the fact, cause in fact all my friends are his friends. I go on the date and feel very strange. I am afraid of the guy, i hate him, but I feel obliged to coax him, and he enters a program of "incest" I think, I feel obliged to obey him, too. And my anger and hatred is taking subversive little terror acts, as i suppose a child would do to an omnipotent abuser - i steal keys to his car when he can't see and dump them, so he get's stuck, little such sabotage, but with the same sense of being a prisoner of him and HVAING to make him happy. At the same time, my handler/spouse tells me that he is now dating the assistance of that big shot (the guy is a big shot lawyer). I find it a bit odd, but I 'shove' it somewhere (that's the biggest garbage dump where everything that doesn't fit the progam is shoved). Then another fact pops up, it tuens out the lawyer (lover/object) is in the midst of a trial representing a mobster guy who is a friend of my handler (and of the guy who made the match). Eventually, what actually happened is that I am a 'gift" from the mobster to the lawyer and my handler dating his assistance is the "monitoring" namely, making sure he does "the right thing" in connection to the legal case of the mobster. (fifteen years later, the mobster is now charged with bribe and severe voilations DURING the case, having to do with a bid to the municipality. the same mobster, btw is charged now with multiple sex offenses, but for the time being the case is not progressing ...he is pulling all the strings). -- Then, when my part is over, the lawyer dumps me, I was also pregnant and was 'convinced' to make an abortion. During the entire period I am surely drugged, i have palpitations, anxiety attacks, sweating and over sexed in a not pleasant way. -- To close this chapter, I called the lawyer two months ago and scheduled a meeting with him in his office, he validated my experience and said that the mobster was bribing and intimidating him and that he filed complaints about him and is no more connected and would not like to remember that. He was kind of compassionate and willing to offset my predicament by helping me to legally do something about MY handler. But I felt so overwhelmed with the memory I passed that one, and would rather not see him at all. I think this is a Typical "round". In my case. After the end of the affair, i went into a sort of "numbness/repression" of the entire affair, explaining out as being an idiot and falling for bad guys again. The obvious connection between my handler, the mobster and the "matching" guy...just didn't Kick In, until later, although it was there all the time. Its interesting, cause the lawyer himself, until we met, was unsure whether I did it voluntarily or not, and was interested in my account of how I was used as sex slave, where he paused and took it in, and quickly processed the entire scenario. IMportant fact in my denial is that at that point I dind't know anything about my handlers' agenda, AND the matchmaker (his friend) was my sister's ex husband (the Psychiatrist Naval doctor, who now works in Ichilov Hospital as senior child psychiatrist...). -- Actually this MO was present through my relations with the spouse, and later was replayed in a grand manner aboard. Its probably in the manuals, of MC 101 somehwere...

Dreams End · Post by **Dreams End** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:28 am

....for that. Hava you've posted a long time here but I guess I've never gotten a full explanation...I wonder if Lily's will match. So, do you feel like this man simply couldn't manage a real relationship or are you saying you were used maybe for other things you don't remember or weren't aware of at the time?

LilyPatToo · Post by **LilyPatToo** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:34 pm

I'm so glad to see this being talked about openly--every slave has deeply-implanted post-hypnotic suggestions/programming to NEVER talk about it and that we'll NEVER be believed if we do bring it up around non-program people. What havanagilla describes is very similar to the way my first handler directed my life. Within half an hour of my ex-husband walking out on me, Handler #1 "coincidentally" happened to call me and set me up on a date with a millionaire business associate of his (who'd just left HIS wife), who "just happened" to be sitting across the desk from him. H#1 always pushed the New Age "synchronicity" thing to explain the miraculous timing he seemed to have where I was concerned<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"> He would tell me how we were "psychically linked" and that he was my "guardian angel" [barf] And if you've read Sue ("Brice Taylor") Ford's book, "Thanks For The Memories", you already know how intricately the Mafia is entangled with all levels of MC in the US (and in Europe, more about that later). havanagilla's encounter with them was very interesting to me, since she, I and Ford are the first MC survivors to talk about this aspect of it. The Mob has been involved in prostitution and sexual slavery for a long, long time. The millionaire who obtained me from H#1 was the guy who later sold me to a business associate in the Lamplighter Restaurant. He in turn later gave me to that scary Mob-connected sociopath with the "flat affect" mistress. Did I understand then what was going on? Hell, no. I was embarrassed by and ashamed of my life and completely confused by its high drama and the fact that I seemed somehow to have slipped into being a call girl. I did exactly what havanagilla did when something really bizarre happened--I shoved it out of my mind as best I could and went back to just trying to survive. But I didn't completely forget it. The memories were always there and always consistent when something would trigger them. The kind of dangerous people I was forced to associate with all drank like fish, so I soon had a serious drinking problem that further clouded my mind and made it difficult for me to ever get any kind of overview of my life. Basically, I stumbled along, trying to keep a roof over my son's head and to care for him (he had terminal cancer) and to *not think* about all the strangeness in my life or, most of all, about all the missing time. I got so good at ignoring that that no matter what happened or where I was when I "came to", I took it in stride, asked no questions and just "kept on keeping on". Rereading that, it sounds as if I was an imbecile, but my handlers and owners were using a time-tested combination of alcohol (and drugs), incessant stress and constant covert threats of violence to keep me completely confused and off-balance. Cathy O'Brien has written about how she went for years without being able to string enough thoughts together to understand what was happening to her...I understand that perfectly. LilyPat

blanc · Post by **blanc** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:45 pm

FWIW there is a combination of drugs which will produce these symptoms, plus interfere with memory formation and lower inhibition.

LilyPatToo · Post by **LilyPatToo** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:30 pm

blanc, do you by any chance know what the cocktail is called? Or the names of any of the ingredients? I'm very curious, since I believe I was routinely drugged when I'd walk onto one of that Gulf & Western guy's yachts. My mixed drink (a vodka/tonic) was always given to me in a glass that was completely different from everyone else's "glasses" (which were actually plastic--mine was glass, very ugly 50's style) which meant that there was zero chance of anyone else accidentily picking it up and drinking out of it. After just a few sips, I'd get dizzy and need to go lie down in one of the cabins. As soon as I did, the woodgrain of the low teak ceiling would begin to writhe strangely and I'd be unable to stand up at all. Then the "brain-freeze" would begin. At the base of my skull in the back I'd feel frost forming and it would spread up and over my head until I'd have this mental image of dark frost completely covering my head. It crackled faintly as it spread. Then I'd listen carefully for the three tones. They always came when the frost was completely formed and they resounded through my whole body in a pleasant way. Then I'd pass out. Any ideas on what the drug(s) might have been? I've wondered for years and years. I also have a courier alter who was "out" a lot while I lived in Europe and traveled on the high-speed trains and I know he/I was given a drug with a very similar effect. He/I would avoid looking at any wood paneling inside the compartment, since the writheing grain would make me/him feel ill. LilyPat

havanagilla · Post by **havanagilla** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:47 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>she went for years without being able to string enough thoughts together to understand what was happening to her...I understand that perfectly.<hr></blockquote> that's about sums it up. it may sound so trivial but it actually isn't. there's a way to keep a person in that state, and that's the big point. DE, re your question, are you referring to my spouse/handler? I have been trying to work it out, what's the deal with him... i can't come to a conclusion, except i know he was doing all this consciously, willingly and officially. however, when we started out, he was only 24 (which was much older than me then, but still, in many ways its a kid, too), and was then freshly orphaned from his mother (premature death from cancer...), so ...here we reach the philosophical pitfall of whether all perps are also victims etc. He reached a very high level so I can't easily get him off the hook with "unable to form relationship" although he is also that. Since I can draw clear distinction between my level of functioning and his, (i was always a wreck and on "survival mode" and he was never anything like that, until now (i think now his ship is sinking), or anything that looked like a controlled MC victim), i think he qualifies for a perp, but not from the highest, solid levels, cause his family was not independtly wealthy, only from gov salaries, which as high as they get are NOT the real wealth of the elite. -- Whether I was doing more for him ? no doubt I was. Its a huge puzzle of details, starting with strange trips abroad, of which I have only fragmented memories; scams in the workplace; but mostly I think I played the bait, not only sexual BTW...for instance, when he wanted to befriend/recruit/use someone "out of his league" in terms of education, he would manipulate events so that ended up doing the fishing for him, cannot really explain now the full detail of these intricate maniplations, but god he was a master. So, anyone with more the BA, I would be the one to create and establish the contact, on "intellectual pursuits" basis, if it didn't require sex. Certainly, if he was looking for access to left wing people...I was his "man"...this is in fact crucial to the understanding of how this MO works. the lefty part is important, and at times I thought this was part of programming/grooming, cause i was to be used in that milliue or under that 'cover' for the access it would get. He could pretend, I suppose, for a short while to be whatever, but in Israel, certainly you can't do that too long, people know. And, he would easily be exposed or slip into his "military type lingo". So, the lefty part is some of the crux, and this also provides him with enough hatred to keep him motivated to harm me..(that left wing bitch...deserves everything she gets...so to speak, and there was also an ethnic component in our relations because he was Sepharadic with a hate-love fetish for blond, ashkenazi "princess", wanting to own one and yet having to harm her too, cause these are the people who prevented his father from getting all the wway to the top, that was his concept of life). its an interesting relations bn the handler and the handled. Sort of Patty hearst in the "poor people version". He thought I needed to be "tamed" or "broken" out of my ethnic pride...the idiot. I might have to think about it longer... --

blanc · Post by **blanc** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:13 am

quick interjection to say, yes all perps are victims too, but at different levels, so you don't have to feel sorry for all of them equally if at all. thus, it helps to make an artificial boundary around the area of choice IMO - how much choice did x have, could he have got out. that leaves a lot of grey middle I know, but at some stage, if we are going to fight this, we have to take sides and walk right over the grey.

Dreams End · Post by **Dreams End** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:45 am

I am a classic "liberal" about things like this. I have the weird belief that people who have mental disorders should be in psych hospitals...not jail. Problems: 1. Many psych hospitals are horrible. 2. The particular disorder we are talking about here is not recognized by many in the psych community...particularly the intentional manipulation aspects. 3. Public safety has to come first. That is, even though I feel very confident that many of the very strange events such as Columbine are, at best, a result of mental illness and, at worst, intentional experiments to fine tune Manchurian Candidate programming (See McGowan: Programmed to Kill...some parts are weak but overall, it's the only place I've seen all that together.), I still understand you can't let such people just walk the streets. I really don't envision a day where there will be "deprogramming" based psych wards. who will run them? the government? What to do with someone like this, though. Let's say my wife's Dad does turn out to bear some responsibility. When my wife's sister told him he was very violent when they were kids, he did not deny it...just said he didn't remember. He did not explore why he wouldn't remember. He's not an alcoholic and missing time, especially of something significant (and ongoing) would seem to be what we call a "clue." Or maybe he's lying... He is sending money to Debbie's therapist. He did not get defensive when accused of having been violent. Now, they lived within easy driving distance of Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Debbie has had young alters talk about the "men coming in the night" who scare her, which she later attributed to be about the police I had to call one time (by the way, 4911, if you are still reading...did you catch that I called the police on my own wife? She was both threatening me with a knife and also a part of her was holding a knife to her own throat. Point being, I drew a very clear line. I explained that if she did not put down the knife (I did try to take it from her but this felt unsafe to me) I would call the police. I did so. While we had no choice but for her to go to a psych hospital at that point, even though she was coming out of it at the end, this line turned out to be important. It sent a very clear message to the parts inside that think waving a knife around or cutting is going to have a good outcome. Setting such boundaries is critical, even though it can sometimes feel uncaring or cruel.) Okay, anyway, one little part has talked about scary men coming in the night. She also talked about going to "Oz" when she slept, if someone says "There's no place like Oz". She also says that the "blanket people" who shut her down into a sort of catatonia were using "gray army blankets." So you see the point...maybe they were hauling her off to Wright Pat for certain experiments. She fits the profile...whole family is very, very bright. Well, it's possible her Dad doesn't remember, I suppose, if any of this is even vaguely true. I had assumed that if this was a correct interpretation, then they probably had the goods on him and kept him in line. Probably some child porn related stuff. And I don't know where the occult angle even fits in. It's so weird. I'm fully aware that she is almost stereotypical in the behaviors she has (DID, obsession with occult and blood, "christening her knife" with blood, nearness to airforce base, extreme focus on OZ books) She sounds like a Fritz Springmeier poster child (regulars know I do NOT endorse that guy...though I'd like to ask him and Mark Phillips...when are you supposed to start fucking the women you "rescue", before or after you "deprogram" them...but I digress). Yet we've yet to find a crack in the overall story. Just a really evil babysitter. I'm happy to say that despite seeming to endorse the "babysitter" explains everything idea, her therapist is now preparing her for further revelations. After all, her missing time is from age 10 to 14 or so, which is another reason we assumed bad things were happening then. "Somebody has those memories," reminds the therapist. Indeed.

Joe Hillshoist · Post by **Joe Hillshoist** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:46 am

Ghb, known sometimes as grevious bodily harm, and liquid exstacy. (BTW kiddies E does not come in liquid form. Its probably GHB.) Is also known as the "date rape drug" by the media in this part of the world. Writhing woodgrain, I dunno. I have never had Ghb (to my knowledge). So I couldn't describe its effects, but what you describe is similar to the beginnings of various psychedelic peaks. Tryptamine based, possibly salvia depending on whether its an endogenous tryptamine activator or has its own effects. The sound (Was there a sound pre the three sounds you listened for?)... There is a buzzing that heavy tripping induces. Sometimes people refer to it as hearing the electron spin resonance of their DNA but its like intense cicada buzzing. It can feel almost like a physical, not audio thing, like its not in the ears but lower, and itcan engulf the whole of your perceptual focus. For some reason that brain freeze thing puts me in mind of that feeling. I wouldn't want to guess what particular chemical was used but I could see how easy it would be to use that feeling as a focus to trigger the sort of things you have experienced. It is distinctive and has its own presence, it could form strong associations with other triggers...

havanagilla · Post by **havanagilla** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:07 pm

DE your suggestion is untenable, since the number of programmed people is on the increase and will be growing. I am just thinking about the thousands of youth I saw from Sierra Leone clearly programmed (mainly via drugs) to perform atrocities (mainly cutting of limbs), are they to be place in a psych ward ? -- you sure have a lot of trust in psychiatry and psychiatrists, who in fact are the prime actors in the programming project. -- This is clearly a political issue and a political crime (human rights) so drugging and confining half the world is hardly the desired response, and whose "public safety" are you concerned with ?

Dreams End · Post by **Dreams End** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:59 pm

To quote myself: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I really don't envision a day where there will be "deprogramming" based psych wards. who will run them? the government? <hr></blockquote> So I'm not really sure what you are objecting to. No, I don't trust...but if you were programmed to go out and rob a bank...you'd at least WISH there were options other than jail. Whether or not there can actually be...I don't know. I wonder about Rwanda...a lot of social manipulation going on there to create that genocidal horror. I've wondered how orchestrated it was and how involved Western spooks may have been...at least in studying the whole thing.

LilyPatToo · Post by **LilyPatToo** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:00 pm

havanagilla -- you mentioned "trips abroad" and I read your post right before going to bed last night. This AM I woke up thinking of Belgium, which I discoved this AM that you'd mentioned in a post to the "elixers" thread, so I'll address that over in that thread. Re: victim/handlers -- that's a subject that interests me a lot. Not sure whether that's just due to my tendency to intellectualize to death anything that frightens me a lot or whether there's a really a clue or two in there to understanding perps better and maybe avoiding their tender ministrations in future. Like Dreams End, I'm a Liberal--a Progressive, in fact--and I scrupulously try to avoid revictimizing victims. But when it comes to this stuff, I have trouble doing that in the case of those perps who were sexual aggressors. To an extent, that's natural, but it also bothers me when I catch myself doing it. My ex-husband The Sociopath, for one example, was raised in a very physically violent, very poor family, horribly mistreated, barely parented at all and seemed to be devoid of a conscience. He gloried in power over women and rape and nearly beat a younger brother to death as a teen. Was he a victim himself? Yes, definitely, but not of a program, as near as I can tell. He was perfect handler material and was most likely drafted right out of university, when he went to work on secret federal government contracts for Westinghouse. I think he opted into the program entirely by conscious choice and with malice aforethought. A second violent sociopath I survived was my last owner who was also my employer. He too was the product of a poor, abusive homelife, but he escaped that world via an athletic scholarship to Georgetown, where I'm pretty sure he encountered the mind controllers (one MC researcher said it was a spook "happy hunting ground" back then). He also had a creepy brother in Air Force intelligence who I think may have had a hand in corrupting him. He had a Jekyll-and-Hyde personality that was so extreme that I've come to suspect him of being DID/MPD himself. When I'm trying to sort out blame, I tend to judge my ex-husband far more harshly than I do my ex-boss/owner. Ex-hubby had a slyness about him, a delight in torture of any kind and no 'good side' that I was ever able to discern. To me, people like him should be kept away from normal human beings, because they are like a separate predator species that is not capable of rehabilitation. But what about my former boss/owner? I believe that he was himself preyed upon as a young man and that he may have been mind controlled himself. His "good" alter was extremely kind to my sick son and even his scary "bad" one at least left the boy alone. He was an alcoholic and had a lot of missing time, which his scary mistress "managed" very carefully so that he wouldn't become too aware of it. It's taken me a long time, but I now know enough about mind control to discern his likely status as a victim first and a handler later. And that makes me hate him less and pity him more. Re: drugs -- thank you for that info, Joe. Someone else has mentioned that "date rape" drug to me as a possibility. The drugging that I described took place in the mid-1970's and I have no way of knowing whether that drug was available then. But the mind control programs were using drugs that weren't even known of by the public OR the civilian, non-program medical profession back then. What I was given may have been a highly-classified early version of it, given what I've learned from researchers about the extensive pharmacology available to the Controllers from the very beginning. LilyPat

rigorousintuition.ca

Quantum Physics in Action

Re: more and more bizarre

diagnosis/treatment

Re: diagnosis/treatment

Re: the sleeping whores

thanks

Re: thanks

surely drugged

Re: surely drugged

Re: surely drugged

perp/victim

perp/victims

Re: surely drugged

Re: Psych wards/death camps ?

repeating

Re: surely drugged