rigorousintuition.ca

I think many of us here are definitely on the right track.

So many people get stuck in the "either/or" issue on so many things.

Was it Al Queda? Or was it the CIA? Or was it the ISI?

If you have studied those things, you see how ridiculous such a question is.

That's like saying -- "was it the Seahawks? Or was it the Steelers? Or was it the Raiders"?

The answer is that it was the goddamn NFL, baby!

I like the sports analogy.

Most people just don't get how transnational things are now. Yet all you have to do is look at current events to see what's really going on. Michael Moore touched on it in F/911. Since then we've seen Halliburton move its base to Dubai. We've seen British Petroleum attempting to rape the Canadian oil sands. We've seen Dubai buying up American companies like a fucking WalMart shopper on crack. We've ALL seen Georgie Bush holding hands with the Saudis. We've learned that Bush showed the top-secret war plans to Bandar Bush before anybody else saw them (even before Colin Powell saw them).

Borders mean NOTHING now. Not to these people. The world is their casino and their whorehouse. Yet we're all taught, STILL, about "patriotism" and all that bullshit.

It's like a mass cultural cognitive dissonance.

250 million people living a fantasy. They might as well all be playing a damn video game.

This thread has some really good conjectural analysis of political structures. I think that maybe a mutually satisfactory reconciliation between the viewpoints of Poztron and FourthBase (re: centralization of power) into a hybrid third could prove eye-opening.

Anybody else notice this:


Tom Lantos, from Sibel's gallery.

Over 27 years in the House, Tom Lantos has achieved a unique and towering stature. As the only Holocaust survivor ever elected to Congress, the Hungarian-born Lantos commands a special credibility in his chosen cause: champion of human rights.

Lantos, 79, expects to step down at year's end as he battles cancer of the esophagus. But the San Mateo Democrat will leave behind an unrivaled career as a voice for the oppressed.

...

Lantos isn't afraid to stride into controversy. In 2006, Lantos was arrested outside the Sudanese embassy in a protest over that government's role in genocide in Darfur. In October, he presided over a committee vote condemning the World War I-era slaughter of Armenians, sparking a crisis in U.S.-Turkey relations.

link

Good timing for an unexpected retirement.

But critics on the left have questioned his strong support for Israel and the lead role he played in Congress in passing the 2002 measure giving President Bush the authorization to go to war in Iraq. He has since become a sharp critic of Bush's Iraq policy.

Lantos was facing the possibility of a primary challenge this year. Speier had formed an exploratory committee to run for the seat, which had belonged to her former boss, Rep. Leo Ryan, who was gunned down in Guyana in 1978 by the followers of the Rev. Jim Jones. Speier, Ryan's congressional aide, was seriously injured in the shooting.

link

Weird...

More on Lantos and Turkey:

President George W. Bush's administration urged Turkey to refrain from acts of radical retaliation following the approval of a resolution calling for formal American recognition of World War I-era Armenian killings in the Ottoman Empire as genocide, by a U.S. panel, late Wednesday. The Foreign Affairs Committee of the House of Representatives voted 27 to 21 in favor of the measure, rejecting a plea by Bush and his top aides to stop the bill.

...

Under Secretary of State Nick Burns said the administration was "deeply sorry" about the vote, but that he hoped Turkey, "one of our most important global allies," would not take radical measures, while speaking to the Turkish Daily News shortly after the vote.

"We hope that [the Turkish government] can stop short of any initiative that could hurt the U.S.-Turkish relationship," he said.

...

The Turks were particularly dismayed by Tom Lantos, the panel's Democratic chairman and the only Holocaust survivor in the U.S. Congress, who voted for the resolution despite Ankara's expectations that he would decline to do so.

Sources here said Israel had been lobbying against the resolution's passage and that Turkish diplomats and officials were baffled by Lantos' vote. The veteran politician is one of Israel's strongest supporters in Washington.

link

For the Turks, the biggest dismay was Lantos' vote. In a long introduction at the opening of the mark-up, Lantos said: "We have to weigh the desire to express our solidarity with the Armenian people and to condemn the historic nightmare through the use of the word 'genocide,' against the risk that it could cause young men and women in the uniform of the United States armed services to pay an even heavier price [in Iraq and Afghanistan] than they are currently paying."

And when Lantos announced his vote, Turkish parliamentary deputies and diplomats present at the mark-up were shocked and angered.

...

Lantos was the staunchest supporter of Turkey in the 2000 discussions of the genocide resolution. But in 2005, angered by the Turkish government's rapprochement with Syria and Iran, he voted for the bill "to punish Ankara" although he admitted that the Armenian killings did not amount to a genocide.

...

Despite the color of their votes, Lantos and Ackerman also sought to appease Turkey. Lantos said that he would soon introduce a resolution marking the U.S.-Turkish friendship. Ackerman said: "This has been tough for me... I'm a big fan and supporter of Turkey."

link

From this blog post, "The reason Turkey is "baffled" at Lantos' vote is because for years he was part of the Turkish Caucus and always voted in favor of Turkey."

Turkish Caucus membership list

Great stuff, cpt!

Sources here said Israel had been lobbying against the resolution's passage

That's also weird to me.
Why would Israel have cared?

FourthBase wrote:
I dunno. It kind of breaks down for me because, say, MLB is centralized, at least on an administrative-policy-scheduling level, but I don't think that extends to criminal collusion, apart from collectively looking the other way when HGH and steroids and speed were all the rage. So I'm going to sidestep the sports analogy, brilliant though it is, and get back to nuts and bolts.

FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_collusion

Touche! Sports it is, all the way!

I don't think "centralized" necessarily means the extreme cabal scenario you offered. Is the structure of the U.S. federal government centralized? Yes, it is -- even though it's comprised of various branches, competing agencies, checks and balances. I think you're defining centralization in simplistic if not caricaturistic terms.

Oh, you may be right. I'm just trying to combat the widespread notion of a small group of Insiders controlling everything. I don't think things work that way. YMMV...

There are only a certain number of those groups, though, and they all talk to each other, and many of their memberships overlap. Think tanks, councils, committees, lodges. Centralization doesn't mean plans are 100% mapped out verbatim in one setting at one time, centralization can exist in a competing network style and respond to situations collectively ad hoc. Even so, the coordination IS tight, haven't you noticed?

Er, gimme a few examples, bro. I'm kind of short on those.

And just because it's not 100% involuntary, that doesn't mean it's 100% voluntary.

Er, true.

Er, gimme a few examples, bro. I'm kind of short on those.

The usual suspects, if you know about Bilderberg, you've probably heard all the examples I could give.

In U.S.-Turkey relations news...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/ap_ ... /us_turkey

As always further juicy commentary from Chris Floyd:

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Articles/Art ... the_World/

Looks like it might be time to give Kerry's BCCI report the once over again:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

thanks for that, cptmarginal.

I noticed Lantos' name there, too, twice, once in the retirement notice and once in the Sibel Edmonds posting and meant to check out the connection.

Probably never would have gotten around to it, so thanks!

Has anybody mentioned how the U.S. is now letting Turkey bomb the shit out of the Kurds in N. Iraq? Funny how that is barely on the radar screen, no? Sure glad I'm not a Kurd. You find Saddam Hussein for these fuckers, and they let Turkey bomb you a little while later. Nice.

Nordic wrote:I think many of us here are definitely on the right track.

So many people get stuck in the "either/or" issue on so many things.

Was it Al Queda? Or was it the CIA? Or was it the ISI?

If you have studied those things, you see how ridiculous such a question is.

That's like saying -- "was it the Seahawks? Or was it the Steelers? Or was it the Raiders"?

The answer is that it was the goddamn NFL, baby!

I like the sports analogy.

Most people just don't get how transnational things are now. Yet all you have to do is look at current events to see what's really going on. Michael Moore touched on it in F/911. Since then we've seen Halliburton move its base to Dubai. We've seen British Petroleum attempting to rape the Canadian oil sands. We've seen Dubai buying up American companies like a fucking WalMart shopper on crack. We've ALL seen Georgie Bush holding hands with the Saudis. We've learned that Bush showed the top-secret war plans to Bandar Bush before anybody else saw them (even before Colin Powell saw them).

Borders mean NOTHING now. Not to these people. The world is their casino and their whorehouse. Yet we're all taught, STILL, about "patriotism" and all that bullshit.

It's like a mass cultural cognitive dissonance.

250 million people living a fantasy. They might as well all be playing a damn video game.

Well someone forgot to tell the Alex Jones/Loose Change "9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB YOU IDIOT CREW!"
that Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, the UAE, Qatar, Osama and al Qaeda
are all part of the new world order globalist gangster crowd.

the more I know about al Qaeda, with all its corporate dummy companies, drug running, intelligence nexus points and Muslim government sponsorship the more its clear to me "al Qaeda isnt innocent or falsely blamed"...they are the hounds of hell unleashed by the global elite.

You're right, it IS the NFL. You dont have Michael Vick pitting dog against dog, you have the NWO pitting the US against jihadists...both of whom are controlled.

Im probably one of the few "conspiratoid/truthers" who actually feels sorry for Bush and doesnt hate him at all. I see him as a scared, abused, compartmentalized manchild...even the manipulative neocons whom I *do* hate I see as mere puppets.

Again, Bush is told to sell our port security to Osama's falcon hunting buddies in Dubai...Sibel Edmonds exposes how a neocon-ISI-Turkish-Israeli network was selling nuclear technology to al Qaeda.

Its as if al Qaeda are rats in a maze, and they are being programmed to where the cheese is...the doors and latches are opened in a way to point them where to go...and we get to call it "the wall/incompetence/buracracy".

People who think the "evil neocons" merely "let it happen on purpose"...or those that think "the neocons" did 9/11 I just have to shake my head out...as with the "incompetent/blowback" people

9/11 Truth died in 2006, and all the bullhorning and signs aint going to bring it back. They did it to themselves, when there was so much evidence of where to go, they decided to focus exclusively on the stuff they knew would go nowhere. So like JFK, like everything else...it all gets swept into the rogue's gallery of nwo accomplishments.

The elite were able to convince the "Truthers" that al Qaeda is just a myth, yet manage to convince the public that al Qaeda is "independent". Its quite a beauty really.

Before anyone "solves" 9/11, I fear there may truly be something to blow it away...were told it will be nuclear, but who knows...these elite rascals can be pretty darn creative and unpredictable.

Nordic wrote:thanks for that, cptmarginal.

I noticed Lantos' name there, too, twice, once in the retirement notice and once in the Sibel Edmonds posting and meant to check out the connection.

Probably never would have gotten around to it, so thanks!

Has anybody mentioned how the U.S. is now letting Turkey bomb the shit out of the Kurds in N. Iraq? Funny how that is barely on the radar screen, no? Sure glad I'm not a Kurd. You find Saddam Hussein for these fuckers, and they let Turkey bomb you a little while later. Nice.

Yeah I noticed that. In the 90's the Kurds were the helpless victims of Saddam...now they are cannon fodder for NATO Turks.

Its funny, Luai Sakra the CIA/BND asset was allowed to train the 9/11 hijackers and other al Qaeda operatives in NATO areas of Turkey...yet were told Turkey is "out to get the terrorists".

Very interesting:

According to a new DU/Kos/etc diary by Lukery (Luke Ryland, who has been working to publicize Sibel's case), Sibel herself has been posting comments under the screen name "StateSecrets."

I suppose it makes her comments and diaries worth re-reading:

http://www.dailykos.com/user/uid:79035

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x2644525

Sibel is posting at DemocraticUnderground as StateSecrets. She was there tonight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... id=2645718