Page 3 of 9
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:13 pm
by 23
Thanks for that. I'll take a gander at it after my round of errands. Owe you.
justdrew wrote:23 wrote:justdrew wrote:speaking of children and cognitive dissonance and such, anyone see the article about the recent study about parents and kids an C.D. ?
I haven't, as of yet; but would love to. Can you point me to it?
some writing about:
http://chrysilla.tumblr.com/post/3310509653
Raising children is hard, and any parent who says differently is lying. Parenting is emotionally and intellectually draining, and it often requires professional sacrifice and serious financial hardship. Kids are needy and demanding from the moment of their birth to … well, forever.
Don’t get me wrong. I love my children dearly, and can’t imagine my life without them. But let’s face the facts: Study after study has shown that parents, compared to adults without kids, experience lower emotional well-being—fewer positive feelings and more negative ones—and have unhappier marriages and suffer more from depression. Yet many of these same parents continue to insist that their children are an essential source of happiness—indeed that a life without children is a life unfulfilled.
How do we square this jarring contradiction? Two psychological scientists at the University of Waterloo think they have the answer. They suspect that the belief in parental happiness is a psychological defense—a fiction we imagine to make all the hard stuff acceptable. In other words, we parents have collectively created the myth of parental joy because otherwise we would have a hard time justifying the huge investment that kids require.
the actual paper:
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 7.abstract
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:20 pm
by justdrew
23 wrote:Thanks for that. I'll take a gander at it after my round of errands. Owe you.
justdrew wrote:23 wrote:justdrew wrote:speaking of children and cognitive dissonance and such, anyone see the article about the recent study about parents and kids an C.D. ?
I haven't, as of yet; but would love to. Can you point me to it?
some writing about:
http://chrysilla.tumblr.com/post/3310509653
Raising children is hard, and any parent who says differently is lying. Parenting is emotionally and intellectually draining, and it often requires professional sacrifice and serious financial hardship. Kids are needy and demanding from the moment of their birth to … well, forever.
Don’t get me wrong. I love my children dearly, and can’t imagine my life without them. But let’s face the facts: Study after study has shown that parents, compared to adults without kids, experience lower emotional well-being—fewer positive feelings and more negative ones—and have unhappier marriages and suffer more from depression. Yet many of these same parents continue to insist that their children are an essential source of happiness—indeed that a life without children is a life unfulfilled.
How do we square this jarring contradiction? Two psychological scientists at the University of Waterloo think they have the answer. They suspect that the belief in parental happiness is a psychological defense—a fiction we imagine to make all the hard stuff acceptable. In other words, we parents have collectively created the myth of parental joy because otherwise we would have a hard time justifying the huge investment that kids require.
the actual paper:
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 7.abstract
no debt incurred
unless you want me to pull the full PDF for you
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:08 pm
by Canadian_watcher
23 wrote:Canadian_watcher wrote:I don't know if I entirely agree that morality is a human construct. I think it might be quite natural and therefore have origins in something other than the mind of man.
That depends, of course, if time exists outside of the mind. If it's a construct of the mind too, then nothing has an origin in anything.
word.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:25 pm
by justdrew
Canadian_watcher wrote:23 wrote:Canadian_watcher wrote:I don't know if I entirely agree that morality is a human construct. I think it might be quite natural and therefore have origins in something other than the mind of man.
That depends, of course, if time exists outside of the mind. If it's a construct of the mind too, then nothing has an origin in anything.
word.
Logos
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:48 pm
by Simulist
justdrew wrote:Canadian_watcher wrote:23 wrote:Canadian_watcher wrote:I don't know if I entirely agree that morality is a human construct. I think it might be quite natural and therefore have origins in something other than the mind of man.
That depends, of course, if time exists outside of the mind. If it's a construct of the mind too,
then nothing has an origin in anything.
word.
Logos
Kai ho logos sarx egeneto…
…and everything has an origin in no-thing.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:43 pm
by Hammer of Los
I sometimes try to explain to people that something can only come from nothing.
I usually regret it.
But this is an interesting thread that I must catch up with. Time again.
Dialogue, of course, is the point of all this. Let us all learn together. Let us all learn to clearly perceive the facts for ourselves, without prejudice, without preference: then what is necessary will become obvious to our innate intelligence.
There you go, I'm channelling J Krishnamurti again. I hate it when that happens.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:20 pm
by 23
Or to put it in its most succinct form: everything is nothing, and nothing is everything.
Some folks, who like to swim in zen waters, have another way of saying it: form is emptiness, and emptiness is form.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:18 pm
by crikkett
Canadian_watcher wrote:It's okay with me that there are atheists - if they want to believe that they themselves are this universe's greatest manifestation then so be it, but why isn't it okay with atheists that there are those of us who can feel that there is a force greater than ourselves? What's their beef? Religion as a Cause of War? I admit it's been a handy tool, but to stop that little ruse they have to look at the money behind the war, not the believers in a God of any name. That's probably too scary & real for them since they themselves have no faith in anything greater than themselves.
Look at how you stuff words into your straw man's mouth! Do you seriously think that every single atheist thinks
they themselves are the universe's greatest ...etcetera?
Why not just be pissed at hypocritical condescension? Wouldn't that be more honest?
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:26 pm
by freemason9
let me ask you this then
are all things created?
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:17 am
by Canadian_watcher
crikkett wrote:Canadian_watcher wrote:It's okay with me that there are atheists - if they want to believe that they themselves are this universe's greatest manifestation then so be it, but why isn't it okay with atheists that there are those of us who can feel that there is a force greater than ourselves? What's their beef? Religion as a Cause of War? I admit it's been a handy tool, but to stop that little ruse they have to look at the money behind the war, not the believers in a God of any name. That's probably too scary & real for them since they themselves have no faith in anything greater than themselves.
Look at how you stuff words into your straw man's mouth! Do you seriously think that every single atheist thinks
they themselves are the universe's greatest ...etcetera?
Why not just be pissed at hypocritical condescension? Wouldn't that be more honest?
I seriously think that every single atheist thinks that there is nothing greater 'out there' than him/herself, yes. Isn't that the point? There is no God, therefore the things in this observable world are all there is, and since man is at the top of the food chain, then it follows that atheists believe themselves to be the universe's greatest manifestation.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:18 am
by Canadian_watcher
freemason9 wrote:let me ask you this then
are all things created?
yes. edit: except those things which have not yet been created.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:29 am
by 23
"let me ask you this then... are all things created?
Don't know whom you're asking this of, and don't mind taking a swipe at it either.
Yes and no, is my response. It kinda depends.
Ever dream lucidly? I ask because, if you have, there's a better chance that you'll get my drift.
Within the dream that you are participating in, the notion of creation is a very real one. You're creating shit, and other people are creating shit. It looks and feels like creation is happening all around you.
But from the perspective of the observer (lucid dreamer) of the dream/drama taking place, everything is simply appearing and dis-appearing before you.
Creation, yes; within the dream. From the perspective of nonjudgmental awareness, however, everything simply just appears and dis-appears.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:25 am
by Burnt Hill
Canadian_watcher wrote:I seriously think that every single atheist thinks that there is nothing greater 'out there' than him/herself, yes. Isn't that the point? There is no God, therefore the things in this observable world are all there is, and since man is at the top of the food chain, then it follows that atheists believe themselves to be the universe's greatest manifestation.
In the immortal words of Peter Boyles' Frank Barone- "Holy Crap!".
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:01 am
by JackRiddler
Canadian_watcher wrote:I seriously think that every single atheist thinks that there is nothing greater 'out there' than him/herself, yes. Isn't that the point? There is no God, therefore the things in this observable world are all there is, and since man is at the top of the food chain, then it follows that atheists believe themselves to be the universe's greatest manifestation.
I sincerely think you can't seriously think this, since it is more a sequence of unrelated prejudices than serious thought; and that you should spare us the effort and deconstruct your faulty logic yourself.
Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:11 am
by justdrew
Canadian_watcher wrote:freemason9 wrote:let me ask you this then
are all things created?
yes. edit: except those things which have not yet been created.
< old reliable /
and... by... who ?
... and then, why all the evil?
/ >
by the way, I had a captive encounter for about 15 minutes today with a talkative end-times tea-party christian. There is some common ground, but it's too messed up there to sort out in this life. That segment is mostly just going to have to be let go off on it's own... End-times... It's 99% projection. yes, the end times are coming, for you. easier to deal with if it's the world dying than the individual. Let him have whatever works for him.
