Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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8bitagent
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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JackRiddler wrote:.

The lack of history has everything to do with it. Especially the cluelessness about the 1960s, as you say.

.
Absolutely. But something has been bugging me...where is the cause celeb rallying around the idea of "Free Manning" when it comes to campus activists? Campus activists have been on the vanguard of gay rights, teacher pay, etc. And God bless them for it. But as I mentioned in this thread( http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 49#p404549 ), if campus liberals and activists like to rally around "Save Darfur" (not seeming to realize Darfur is itself part of the globalist genocide for oil campaign thats been going on) and "Save tibet" or "Free Mumia" notions...where is the Free Bradley Manning movement? Free Palestine? US out of Afghanistan? Are these too taboo?

I've been shunned from most democrat/leftist forums, even anti war/pro peace demos and rallies...not for 9/11 stuff so much, but for vocally asking why the left seems clueless or in some cases supports things they should be fighting against.
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

Post by JackRiddler »

8bitagent wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:.

The lack of history has everything to do with it. Especially the cluelessness about the 1960s, as you say.

.
Absolutely. But something has been bugging me...where is the cause celeb rallying around the idea of "Free Manning" when it comes to campus activists? Campus activists have been on the vanguard of gay rights, teacher pay, etc. And God bless them for it. But as I mentioned in this thread( http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 49#p404549 ), if campus liberals and activists like to rally around "Save Darfur" (not seeming to realize Darfur is itself part of the globalist genocide for oil campaign thats been going on) and "Save tibet" or "Free Mumia" notions...where is the Free Bradley Manning movement? Free Palestine? US out of Afghanistan? Are these too taboo?

I've been shunned from most democrat/leftist forums, even anti war/pro peace demos and rallies...not for 9/11 stuff so much, but for vocally asking why the left seems clueless or in some cases supports things they should be fighting against.
I'm very cynical about "Save Darfur," less so about the more grassroots Darfur support groups. "Save Darfur" was a top-down PR campaign organized by groups connected to the pro-Israeli lobby that had, of course, supported the illegal US-UK invasion of Iraq. "Save Darfur" was biggest at the height of the bloodshed in Iraq. The media were calling a US-led war of aggression and a US-backed genocide and ethnic cleansing in Iraq a civil war, while the civil war in Darfur was called a genocide. The biggest difference between the two cases is that US protests would have had the potential to affect what happened in Iraq, and almost no potential to affect what happens in Darfur, except (in the case that a "boots on the ground" intervention had been prompted) to make things worse. "Save Darfur" provided a socially acceptable and uncontroversial avenue of protest against "evil" for the clean-cut students who should have been making a political upheaval against their own country's imperialist war -- and who would have been, just like in Vietnam, had there still been the threat of the draft.

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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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JackRiddler wrote:
8bitagent wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:.

The lack of history has everything to do with it. Especially the cluelessness about the 1960s, as you say.

.
Absolutely. But something has been bugging me...where is the cause celeb rallying around the idea of "Free Manning" when it comes to campus activists? Campus activists have been on the vanguard of gay rights, teacher pay, etc. And God bless them for it. But as I mentioned in this thread( http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 49#p404549 ), if campus liberals and activists like to rally around "Save Darfur" (not seeming to realize Darfur is itself part of the globalist genocide for oil campaign thats been going on) and "Save tibet" or "Free Mumia" notions...where is the Free Bradley Manning movement? Free Palestine? US out of Afghanistan? Are these too taboo?

I've been shunned from most democrat/leftist forums, even anti war/pro peace demos and rallies...not for 9/11 stuff so much, but for vocally asking why the left seems clueless or in some cases supports things they should be fighting against.
I'm very cynical about "Save Darfur," less so about the more grassroots Darfur support groups. "Save Darfur" was a top-down PR campaign organized by groups connected to the pro-Israeli lobby that had, of course, supported the illegal US-UK invasion of Iraq. "Save Darfur" was biggest at the height of the bloodshed in Iraq. The media were calling a US-led war of aggression and a US-backed genocide and ethnic cleansing in Iraq a civil war, while the civil war in Darfur was called a genocide. The biggest difference between the two cases is that US protests would have had the potential to affect what happened in Iraq, and almost no potential to affect what happens in Darfur, except (in the case that a "boots on the ground" intervention had been prompted) to make things worse. "Save Darfur" provided a socially acceptable and uncontroversial avenue of protest against "evil" for the clean-cut students who should have been making a political upheaval against their own country's imperialist war -- and who would have been, just like in Vietnam, had there still been the threat of the draft.

.

Perhaps it is a bit intellectually dishonest for me to refer to the "great liberal activism" of the late 60's and early 1970's without mentioning the draft factor. There's no mistaking that was a huge factor...just imagine though, if instant photos/video from smart phones, twitter/facebook were around today. You think youth today would be MORE vigilant and active, or more aware of stuff going on...yet for all this mass technology wiki world we live in...it just doesn't seem like that fire is lit. The times I run into folks who let it be known they don't trust official government versions of things, they speak in hushed tones. This is the society that threatened to revoke that French actress' Oscar for her views on 9/11.

Darfur...funny thing about Iraq and Darfur...in the end, China and Arab oil companies ended up the main victor of oil in both areas. Even though I have snidely remarked on Rwanda being a French engineered massacre and Darfur being bought and paid for by China for oil, it seems to me that there is a genuine rift and internal war going on between globalist states. Pakistan is running to China away from their bed buddy the US, even Saudi Arabia is cozying up to Russia and China and distancing themselves a bit from America.
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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8bitagent wrote:it seems to me that there is a genuine rift and internal war going on between globalist states. Pakistan is running to China away from their bed buddy the US, even Saudi Arabia is cozying up to Russia and China and distancing themselves a bit from America.
Come on man, do it! You can finally liberate yourself from the NWO masterplan nonsense and understand that the paradigm of world politics remains imperialism... most of it involving competition between coalitions of state-based as well transnational actors. World War I, unfortunately, never really ended; the current phase is a riot of parapolitical conflicts involving hundreds of different actors, most of them still willfully blind to the ecological questions that will trump everything. World War I, unfortunately, never really ended; and the greatest and most horrible change is that the ratio of civilian to military casualties has gone from 1:10 to 10:1.

.
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Bill Moyers: Speaking Truth to Power

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...
Moyers was on NPR yesterday promoting the need to speak truth to power. Of course that would resonate more if he would come clean about his own transgressions while manipulating the levers of Power.

From establishing the narrow scope of the Warren Commission, along with Nicholas Katzenbach. To the smearing of MLK. Moyers has a fairly substantial credibility gap.

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/23/136583949 ... interviews
Peachtree Pam wrote:


Bill Moyers, LBJ's hatchet man
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009 ... l-ratfker/

Moyers gave the go-ahead to Hoover to spy on MLK. He leaked information on MLK, including audiotapes, to the press and made efforts to undermine MLK in Europe when he traveled to accept his Nobel Peace Prize. White House Memoranda show that Moyers made sure that LBJ was aware of the dirt on MLK and was give a heads up when there were leaks of private information on MLK to the press.

snip......
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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JackRiddler wrote:
8bitagent wrote:it seems to me that there is a genuine rift and internal war going on between globalist states. Pakistan is running to China away from their bed buddy the US, even Saudi Arabia is cozying up to Russia and China and distancing themselves a bit from America.
Come on man, do it! You can finally liberate yourself from the NWO masterplan nonsense and understand that the paradigm of world politics remains imperialism... most of it involving competition between coalitions of state-based as well transnational actors. World War I, unfortunately, never really ended; the current phase is a riot of parapolitical conflicts involving hundreds of different actors, most of them still willfully blind to the ecological questions that will trump everything. World War I, unfortunately, never really ended; and the greatest and most horrible change is that the ratio of civilian to military casualties has gone from 1:10 to 10:1.

.
Oh Jack, I never ascribed to the notion of one unifying "gang"...there's obviously competing interests. Again, the Raymond Davis flap points this out. Now, one can take Sibel Edmons agit-pop and create some sort of neocon-Pakistan ISI-Israeli-Saudi-turkish league of shadows...and certainly those working relations have been there. But often times gangsters can't play nice, and you have a Mexican cartel vs cartel vs cartel situation(though, metaphysically one has to wonder who is truly having the last laugh)

Btw, WW1...you mean 11:11:11:18 to 2011? (sorry, I swear I was gonna scale back the Woo)
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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JackRiddler wrote:.

I'm failing to register with truthdig. Just don't get what the problem is. Can someone who can post there help out? Please let me know first (so that I can edit it appropriately). Because I am curious what he says. Thanks!

.
I've had an account at Truthdig for a while (although I hadn't tried to log on for ages), and it's not allowing me to comment either. Not sure what the deal is.
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

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Joe Hillshoist wrote:
The Consul wrote:Man, you gotta wonder about Obama....he never calls anyone brother, know what I mean? Dr. West calls everybody brother, or especially my brother. If I was black, and I was president, I'd call everybody brother. If you're white, you can't do it....though that scottish guy on Lost tried, it never took off.
You can if you want dude.

You don't say brother tho. Bro, or bruz.

Re Obama tho, interesting observation, but its a familiarity thing and a comfort thing to say that.

Overtly calling everyone brother in public can be a political act in itself.
And yet you did not add ", brother" brother.

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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

Post by Joe Hillshoist »

The Consul wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:
The Consul wrote:Man, you gotta wonder about Obama....he never calls anyone brother, know what I mean? Dr. West calls everybody brother, or especially my brother. If I was black, and I was president, I'd call everybody brother. If you're white, you can't do it....though that scottish guy on Lost tried, it never took off.
You can if you want dude.

You don't say brother tho. Bro, or bruz.

Re Obama tho, interesting observation, but its a familiarity thing and a comfort thing to say that.

Overtly calling everyone brother in public can be a political act in itself.
And yet you did not add ", brother" brother.

I was actually gonna at the end of that, then thought it sounded trite after all that. And I was gonna say "Hang in there Bruz", after your post on that tornado thread but felt the same way.

Don't mind me bro, sometimes I'm just a bit dumb.
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

Post by Joe Hillshoist »

Plus you're a whitefella who called me brother anyway.

Thats so cool.
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

Post by The Consul »

Bump, since it is one of the best posts I've ever read here.
JackRiddler wrote:.

I love Brother West, and I thought the speech he made to set off all the criticism was righteous. And I love Brother Hedges, but I don't make much of his general liberal-bashing for sport.

Who are these liberals? His article doesn't mention any by name, and he'll be hard put to find too many among his targets who are willing to call themselves by that name. The people who do freely identify as "liberal" on principle may be really good people, and very likely undeserving of Hedges's critique. In fact, they're probably just like Hedges.

After all, it all depends on who is using the word and how it is defined, and for the most part this word is never defined; it's only muddied. Most of the "liberals" in this society are ascribed, not self-described. They're "liberals" because some media or expert authority pinned the label on them, usually as an attack term. And that's what Brother Hedges is doing here. He's talking about Democratic Party apparatchiks, most of them indistinguishable from the Republicans on issues such as "national security," "crime" or "economic freedom." He's talking about pundits who are paid to play-act the ostensible left on television or in think-tank rounds: spin doctors, media whores, people who do not have convictions but are hired to represent opinions in predigested talking points, calcified shadow beings whose most important job in psychological terms is never to surprise themselves. He's also talking about corporate management echelons who have learned a false lingo of tolerance and diversity, who are not remotely liberal in philosophy, whose treatment of the "human resources" is still dictated by what the spreadsheets say. He's talking about a few billionaires or bankers who picked up some of their language from hippies and are celebrated as "liberal" visionaries or philanthropists. He's talking about technocrats who want to define every social problem as a deviance disorder, treat people for their bad habits, stamp out vice. He's also angry at a larger demographic of fearful middle-class conformists who tend to avoid politics and seek whatever is perceived as a centrist or moderate position. People who hope to feel good about themselves by endorsing the same milquetoast ideals of tolerance and diversity.

If these are his "liberals," then bash away.

But again, who's calling them that? It's the right wing (the self-described conservatives) generally who get to define who are the "liberal" politicians, the "liberal" academics and lawyers. It is organs of the corporate media itself that present the fantasy of "the liberal media." The same reigning mentality, the one that defines politics as a polarity between false and often flexible definitions of "liberal" and "conservative," doesn't even allow for Hedges's position to exist, except as something "liberal." What do you think the punditry are likeliest to call Hedges, when he's not specifically attacking "liberals"? He'd be a "hard-left liberal extremist." Don't tell me the latter phrase is a contradiction in terms; my point is that it's a contradiction in terms, but in this article Hedges isn't deconstructing the confusionist ideology, he's accepting its labels.

"Liberal" has been rendered derogatory since the 1980s or really the 1970s. Back in 1988 Bush feigned that he couldn't even say the dirty word, he turned it into the "l-word," and a threshold was signalled by the failure of Dukakis to respond, to say, "If liberal means [this or that good thing], then hell yeah I'm a liberal, and that's American damn it!" Since then the only thing liberal about the Democratic Party leadership has been that this is the word FOXNEWS and the Washington Post stick on them. The more Clinton or Obama pursue the same policies or continue the same wars as their Bush predecessors, the more we are told that they are "the most liberal" this or that in history, or socialists, or agents of Marxism. The term usually receives no definition beyond that it's vaguely Eastern, urban, educated, unionized, pro-Black, European, gay, unpatriotic, supposedly voting for the Democrats and looking down on down-home, Christian, flag-waving gun-owning meat-eating Americans who are proud to serve. It's a rhetorical dodge, a means of removing politics and leaving only identities that can be divided and ruled over. At the same time, "conservative" is defined by a series of hysterias about threats to life, property or some nostalgic male white heteronormative identity, but always tied to the kicker: policy proscriptions that are radically plutocratic. This is no longer "conservative" by a dictionary definition. The ideology of the right has become confusionism. All reality is inverted in the language; the labels consist in funhouse projections of the unacknowledged self on to the designated-enemy other. The most ardent supporters of a repressive surveillance state decry big government!

You can chalk it up as a victory for the old liberals and New Left of the 1960s that the once-fresh language of empowerment, grassroots, reform, and revolution was taken up and detourned by the perpetually "new" right that has called most of the shots since (perpetually new because every couple of years they're recycled and repackaged as a surprise rebellion from nowhere, as with the Tea Party). Hedges is about 50 years too late in discerning the death of the liberal class. It died in the 1960s and 1970s. It died when its leaders were shot dead in public assassinations, and the nearest followers were cowed enough to become not just believers but champions of the cover stories.

Later came 9/11 and a renewed hysteria: are you with us or against us? Are you watching what you say? Are you avoiding the thoughts that will identify you as insane and pariah to good company? It wasn't so much that you had to feel the fear personally, but you had best acquiesce in accepting its legitimacy as the new crux point of policy.

And these are far from the first waves of cultural repression, as justdrew points out. You people act like the postwar era did not start with possibly the biggest mass hysteria of all, the search for "communists" accompanied by a countrywide purge of tens of thousands of possible "communist sympathizers" from government, journalism, teaching, arts and the professions (vulnerability extended potentially to anyone who was not rabidly parroting the fairy tales of the Cold War). The modern form of this country was born with everyone already fearing they may be charged with thoughtcrime. The 1960s saw a brief opening but the culture in this country since has been managed, mostly with success, in rendering institutions of democracy and republic mostly irrelevant, and in keeping the people in a series of hysterias and general ignorance about their own government, policies, and real circumstances.

How productive is it really to pretend that these liberals of right-wing hysteria actually exist, and should be bashed from the left? This is not the acid trip the country needs, wherein all false labels and false identities and self-deceptions melt away into a helpless, cleansing laughter over, and liberation from, our own false self-images.
Bump, since it is one of the best posts I've ever read here...
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Re: Why Liberal Sellouts Attack Prophets Like Cornel West

Post by JackRiddler »

.

Thank you consul!

Thanks to Bruce Dazzling, an edited form of my response to Hedges has been posted as a comment on Truthdig, although it displays in three parts in reverse order (with someone else's unrelated comment interrupting the sequence).

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why ... _20110523/

Luckily BD wrote "Part X of 3" to start each, so people might be able to reconstruct it, hopefully Hedges will do so since that was the point.

THANKS BRUCE!!!

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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