rigorousintuition.ca

I don't know what to call it, but it definitely includes those who think that Jeff and I have turned MAGA and whose deepest wish is to see us both die of COVID-19 ASAP to stop us from continuing to defile their sacred mRNA vaccines with our infuriatingly unanswerable facts, data, and rational arguments.

stickdog99 » 21 Sep 2021 20:44 wrote:I don't know what to call it, but it definitely includes those who think that Jeff and I have turned MAGA and whose deepest wish is to see us both die of COVID-19 ASAP to stop us from continuing to defile their sacred mRNA vaccines with our infuriatingly unanswerable facts, data, and rational arguments.

Your data isn't all that but its your life so think what you like.

It is a testament to how effective the past 20 years of ubiquitous & inescapable programming have been that such a sad, petty accusation could even be forged into a sentence, let alone raised with honest, well-intentioned concern. Which it surely was.

Watching the American left transform from "fight the power" theatrics to eager cultural revolutionaries & conformity enforcers has been amazing to watch -- but only because of the speed and the scale of it. It's not an education. I already knew that vanishingly few people have any actual beliefs. Seeing this get illustrated across the canvas of informed voters who talk about media literacy and critical thinking, though, is not unlike the pirouettes that Flight 77 turned above the Potomac: just a thing of terrible beauty to behold.

All thought, all questions, all dissent, all poured into one of two color-coded containers. Forevermore.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sadly yes.


Perhaps this is overused, but it applies.

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."
~ William J. Casey
Director of Central Intelligence from 1981 to 1987

Joe Hillshoist » 21 Sep 2021 13:01 wrote:

stickdog99 » 21 Sep 2021 20:44 wrote:I don't know what to call it, but it definitely includes those who think that Jeff and I have turned MAGA and whose deepest wish is to see us both die of COVID-19 ASAP to stop us from continuing to defile their sacred mRNA vaccines with our infuriatingly unanswerable facts, data, and rational arguments.

Your data isn't all that but its your life so think what you like.

What mRNA therapy worshippers willfully "forget" is that this is all anyone is asking.

Wombaticus Rex » 21 Sep 2021 14:06 wrote:It is a testament to how effective the past 20 years of ubiquitous & inescapable programming have been that such a sad, petty accusation could even be forged into a sentence, let alone raised with honest, well-intentioned concern. Which it surely was.

Watching the American left transform from "fight the power" theatrics to eager cultural revolutionaries & conformity enforcers has been amazing to watch -- but only because of the speed and the scale of it. It's not an education. I already knew that vanishingly few people have any actual beliefs. Seeing this get illustrated across the canvas of informed voters who talk about media literacy and critical thinking, though, is not unlike the pirouettes that Flight 77 turned above the Potomac: just a thing of terrible beauty to behold.

All thought, all questions, all dissent, all poured into one of two color-coded containers. Forevermore.

BlueAnon vs. QAnon vs. WhotheFuckAreYouAnon

https://archive.is/YXQVg

NY Tmes

The Extremely Weird Politics of Covid

...

These friends were wrong. And as someone who thought of my Covid-hawkish position as the more right-wing one, I’ve found it remarkable that through all those hundreds of thousands of deaths — deaths that many doves didn’t think would happen — the American right’s libertarian stance has mostly stuck.

But as someone who can see lots of specific issues on which the doves and libertarians have a point, I’m equally fascinated by how dramatically liberals have swung against any acknowledgment of what until very recently seemed like a core left perspective — that stringent public health responses are inherently authoritarian and inevitably ratify various forms of inequality and social control.

As Justin E.H. Smith, an American-born academic in Paris, noted in a recent essay, a left that just a little while ago seemed committed to Foucauldian critiques of biopolitics and fears of what governments do with emergency powers now is “dug in so deeply on the side of anti-anti-vaxx signaling” that it can’t “acknowledge anything worrisome about the new high-tech hygiene regime, about how hard it might be to dismantle it once it has outlived its purpose, about how it might sprout new purposes that are inimical to human thriving.”

What’s especially striking is how smoothly and absolutely these shifts happened — how quickly, and without embarrassment or backward looks, much of the right started talking like Michel Foucault and his disciples and much of the left starting embracing the mind-set of the Florentine Sanità, as though those had been their natural and inevitable positions all along.

I keep writing about this subject, to the point of tedium — though I promise this will be my last such column for a while — because I think this right-left flip, this sudden-seeming role reversal, offers some sort of key to the derangements of our time.

Maybe the key is the absolute power of partisanship and polarization, in which once Donald Trump chose Covid-minimizing rhetoric, everybody else just rushed into their places.

Maybe the key lies in the left’s increasing sense of itself as occupying the seat of power and the right’s sense of its marginalization — which naturally changes the way each side reacts to the use of authority in a crisis and the interest with which each side reads Foucault.

Or maybe the key, as I suggested last week, is all about interests and in-groups and the way the Covid lockdowns affected right-leaning and left-leaning demographics differently — which is why the right briefly favored restrictions when they seemed likely to fall mainly on foreigners and the left briefly suspended its zeal for restrictions when the transgressors were left-wing protesters instead of anti-mask Republicans.

Or maybe Covid has just stripped away all the ideological scaffolding built atop our warring factions and returned us to some sort of Puritans-versus-Jacksonians dynamic from our country’s distant past.

Whatever the explanation, in the short run I think the bare acknowledgment that this weird flip took place might help a little with our polarization — tempering the liberal sense that the right is just a pro-Covid death cult and the right’s sense that the left wants us all to mask up and eat Soylent in our disease-free habitats forever.

In less than two years, we’ve gone from a world where it was normal for a left-leaning publication to run an essay gently celebrating the defiance of public health rules during a brutal outbreak of the plague, to a world where the defiance of public health rules during a less lethal pandemic is coded as incredibly right wing.

I don’t know exactly why or exactly what it means. I just want people to acknowledge that it has happened and it’s really, really weird.

Iamwhomiam » 21 Sep 2021 00:54 wrote:It is clearly a question, nashvillebrook, not an accusation. Seems two members feel RI has become tribal, maybe because of all the insulting adolescent name calling, or the diversion to another topic rather than responding to questions when asked, often ignoring the questioner completely. Coulda been the Nazi shit, for all I know. I don't see it that way, but certainly agree with Elvis that a new observer might view RI that way. I see it more like a(n) (induced) libertarian shift to conservatism.

@iamwhoiam, Interpersonal struggles and deliberate disruption notwithstanding (what you mention is def deliberate disruption), invoking “MAGA” is a call to conformity…as is just about everything in the ‘blue wave’/#resistance agenda lately. “Tone” is signified in “are ya’ll MAGA; are ya’ll Q.” The Q one is especially funny b/c this is the last place I’d go to find ppl who “trust the plan.”

The question implies contempt; “things have gotten so bad at RI that we must reflect on our MAGA-ness.”

RI has always had an aggressive posting style (as well as passive-aggressive). But I kinda expect that of a message board with lots of deep- and/or parapolitics, b/c it attracts who are passionate about stuff.

I also expect a board with this pedigree to be above (or beside) raw partisan politics. I know most of you are lefties. I see some ppl being dicks. Maybe there are civil libertarians and libertarians. So what??

Coulda been the Nazi shit, for all I know.

Yeah, nobody ever invokes the Y@htzees on RI, do they?


http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 1&start=15

Only one thread of many where the Y@htzees are invoked. If I wanted to waste more time I'm sure there are dozens of threads with Y@htzee comparisons, calling people Y@htzees, Orange Man is a Y@htzee etc etc etc... sheesh.

There was a time when the left wingers (see how easy it is to simply go binary?) made references to George Dubya Dingleberry Bush being a Y@htzee. Glenn Greenwald discusses this and the new domestic war on terror.

https://rumble.com/vmfpil-liberals-chee ... war-o.html

The historical revision is such a delight. Dubya directly compared to Hitler over and over. Now that Dubya is condemning 1-6 and those largely peaceful protestors the same people who called him a Y@tzee now support him. Pretty fucked up, but let's give everyone a pass who is a true liberal that made rather stupid comparisons to the Y@tzees over the past 15 years or so on RI.


Are we done with the Nazi shit yet? Or does the hypocrisy and stupid stuff from the past need to be dragged out a bit longer since so many have forgotten?

Maybe the mods could do us all a favor and lock this. I've heard that at least two people on RI are interested in seeing this thread land in the Firepit.

Greenwald already has all of the moving parts of what is coming next, probably within weeks. After it happens, I hope he'll go further and put all of the pieces together.

Karmamatterz » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:27 pm wrote:

Coulda been the Nazi shit, for all I know.

Yeah, nobody ever invokes the Y@htzees on RI, do they?


http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 1&start=15

Only one thread of many where the Y@htzees are invoked. If I wanted to waste more time I'm sure there are dozens of threads with Y@htzee comparisons, calling people Y@htzees, Orange Man is a Y@htzee etc etc etc... sheesh.

There was a time when the left wingers (see how easy it is to simply go binary?) made references to George Dubya Dingleberry Bush being a Y@htzee. Glenn Greenwald discusses this and the new domestic war on terror.

https://rumble.com/vmfpil-liberals-chee ... war-o.html

The historical revision is such a delight. Dubya directly compared to Hitler over and over. Now that Dubya is condemning 1-6 and those largely peaceful protestors the same people who called him a Y@tzee now support him. Pretty fucked up, but let's give everyone a pass who is a true liberal that made rather stupid comparisons to the Y@tzees over the past 15 years or so on RI.


Are we done with the Nazi shit yet? Or does the hypocrisy and stupid stuff from the past need to be dragged out a bit longer since so many have forgotten?

Maybe the mods could do us all a favor and lock this. I've heard that at least two people on RI are interested in seeing this thread land in the Firepit.

It's not this thread they're interested in throwing into the firepit!

You disappear for six months and then reappear and start insulting everyone posting on RI. Considering you searched the term "Nazi" and received what, 18 hits? Did you happen to notice the earliest mention of the term you searched for was on November 30th of last year? I beg you, to please stop posting stupid shit - the less we have of it, the less we'll be able to pull up from the past to throw in your face. Further victimizing enslaved concentration camp victims for your own sensational purpose and satisfaction is repulsive. I feel the same about your treatment of victims of Thalidomide, which, btw, has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines.

Iamwhomiam » 22 Sep 2021 04:27 wrote:

Karmamatterz » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:27 pm wrote:

Coulda been the Nazi shit, for all I know.

I feel the same about your treatment of victims of Thalidomide, which, btw, has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines.

Always and invariably with the special carve out for vaccines, which quite obviously among all medical interventions always uniquely cure all the ills of capitalism in every conceivable case, past, present, and future. Biosecurity QR codes and coerced experimental medical interventions are inherently evil. But, of course, if they are for vaccines (no matter which or how many), well, of course, these inherent evils are now suddenly totally awesome!

Groupthink is groupthink. You (and 90% of US and Canadian doctors) could no more objectively judge the cost and risk vs, benefit ratio of any specific vaccine than Truman could objectively judge dropping those nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. For anyone ever to dare to call into question the cost and risk vs. benefit profiles of mRNA COVID-19, flu, and HPV vaccines automatically makes this individual a murderous pariah in your eyes. And this sort of reflexive, unquestioning groupthink is exactly like "everyone knows that drugs don't cross the placental barrier!"

It's not this thread they're interested in throwing into the firepit!

You disappear for six months and then reappear and start insulting everyone posting on RI. Considering you searched the term "Nazi" and received what, 18 hits? Did you happen to notice the earliest mention of the term you searched for was on November 30th of last year? I beg you, to please stop posting stupid shit - the less we have of it, the less we'll be able to pull up from the past to throw in your face. Further victimizing enslaved concentration camp victims for your own sensational purpose and satisfaction is repulsive. I feel the same about your treatment of victims of Thalidomide, which, btw, has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines.

I took a break from RI shortly after the initial lockdowns when I realized that nearly everyone (with extremely small exceptions) was drinking the Covidian Kool Aid and couldn't see any of the lies and scam. Mac was one of the few who immediately looked past the bullshit. You haven't forgotten what happened with Mac have you? Fear does that, and it was grotesque. Only when I saw that BelSav, Harvey and Stick were still working the Covidian lies and giving them a good beatdown did I return. Ask those three if I've insulted them. Is there a rule about taking a break and coming back? If that bothers you so much take it up with the mods as you've done so frequently in the past.

Maybe you yourself should consider the pot is calling the kettle black? I don't share private messages or emails from RI folk openly here, but you've been mentioned several times, and not in a flattering way. None of us are here for popularity so whatever.

You also seem to have missed the entire point of the Thalidomide post. The corruption of the federal agencies is rampant and the FDA is a huge part of that. Pharmaceutical companies have killed and injured many. To forgive and forget their crimes and callous attitude towards customers who bought their drugs and were maimed is disgusting. Just like right now the VAERS data is being poo poo'd and dismissed. It too will be forgotten like the children that were maimed. The mothers who gave birth to those injured children horrifically scarred for life thinking it was their fault and living with guilt forever. Would it make you feel better to just tuck that ugly history away and shrug your shoulders as the FDA and CDC continue with their shameful actions today? Vaccines are only a small part of the entire farce.

The gross acceptance of the mainstream bilge is equally disgusting. This entire thread is just another example of the mass hysteria mind control that exists and many are blind to. Wombat being a better writer, and more chill than me made it clear. Anyone who reads what he wrote and does't get it should just go back to CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WAPO, AP, FOX etc... and let the soothing binary propaganda wash over their brain.

It is a testament to how effective the past 20 years of ubiquitous & inescapable programming have been that such a sad, petty accusation could even be forged into a sentence, let alone raised with honest, well-intentioned concern. Which it surely was.

Watching the American left transform from "fight the power" theatrics to eager cultural revolutionaries & conformity enforcers has been amazing to watch -- but only because of the speed and the scale of it. It's not an education. I already knew that vanishingly few people have any actual beliefs. Seeing this get illustrated across the canvas of informed voters who talk about media literacy and critical thinking, though, is not unlike the pirouettes that Flight 77 turned above the Potomac: just a thing of terrible beauty to behold.

All thought, all questions, all dissent, all poured into one of two color-coded containers. Forevermore.

stickdog99 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:27 am wrote:

Iamwhomiam » 22 Sep 2021 04:27 wrote:

Karmamatterz » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:27 pm wrote:

Coulda been the Nazi shit, for all I know.

I feel the same about your treatment of victims of Thalidomide, which, btw, has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines.

Always and invariably with the special carve out for vaccines, which quite obviously among all medical interventions always uniquely cure all the ills of capitalism in every conceivable case, past, present, and future. Biosecurity QR codes and coerced experimental medical interventions are inherently evil. But, of course, if they are for vaccines (no matter which or how many), well, of course, these inherent evils are now suddenly totally awesome!

Groupthink is groupthink. You (and 90% of US and Canadian doctors) could no more objectively judge the cost and risk vs, benefit ratio of any specific vaccine than Truman could objectively judge dropping those nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. For anyone ever to dare to call into question the cost and risk vs. benefit profiles of mRNA COVID-19, flu, and HPV vaccines automatically makes this individual a murderous pariah in your eyes. And this sort of reflexive, unquestioning groupthink is exactly like "everyone knows that drugs don't cross the placental barrier!"

This place may not have gone full MAGA, but you sure as hell argue like one. Can you make one single post without your endless straw men? Just one?

And obviously you, elite internet researcher that you are, are vastly better qualified to judge the cost benefit ratio of vaccines than 90% of doctors. What the hell do they even know, right?

DrEvil » 22 Sep 2021 18:19 wrote:

stickdog99 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:27 am wrote:

Iamwhomiam » 22 Sep 2021 04:27 wrote:

Karmamatterz » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:27 pm wrote:

Coulda been the Nazi shit, for all I know.

I feel the same about your treatment of victims of Thalidomide, which, btw, has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines.

Always and invariably with the special carve out for vaccines, which quite obviously among all medical interventions always uniquely cure all the ills of capitalism in every conceivable case, past, present, and future. Biosecurity QR codes and coerced experimental medical interventions are inherently evil. But, of course, if they are for vaccines (no matter which or how many), well, of course, these inherent evils are now suddenly totally awesome!

Groupthink is groupthink. You (and 90% of US and Canadian doctors) could no more objectively judge the cost and risk vs, benefit ratio of any specific vaccine than Truman could objectively judge dropping those nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. For anyone ever to dare to call into question the cost and risk vs. benefit profiles of mRNA COVID-19, flu, and HPV vaccines automatically makes this individual a murderous pariah in your eyes. And this sort of reflexive, unquestioning groupthink is exactly like "everyone knows that drugs don't cross the placental barrier!"

This place may not have gone full MAGA, but you sure as hell argue like one. Can you make one single post without your endless straw men? Just one?

And obviously you, elite internet researcher that you are, are vastly better qualified to judge the cost benefit ratio of vaccines than 90% of doctors. What the hell do they even know, right?

I think you forget that I teach future doctors for a living. The one true creed these future doctors get drilled into their heads from day one (even as their immunology classes teach them otherwise) is that all vaccines are sacrosanct and to question any vaccine in any way is tantamount to treason against the entire profession of medicine. And medical schools in the US select exactly for those individuals most capable of putting their heads down and calmly, believably, sincerely, and rationally repeating exactly what they have been told.

Just for one example, what do you think happens when I ask my hundreds of classes of brilliant future doctors whether we should put fluoride into our drinking water?

But here's the thing I have always wanted everyone here (and all my tens of thousands of students) to understand, but never, ever seem to be able to get across. I truly want to believe, as all of you and they do. that every vaccine ever invented or yet to be invented has an unquestionably unassailable positive benefit vs. cost and risk ratio. And I am totally prepared to believe this about any specific vaccine if presented with data that support this conclusion.

But as someone whose career is to teach future doctors how to think critically, I have long been bothered by the fact that I would get immediately fired from my job merely for proposing a thought experiment about a potential vaccine whose costs and risks exceed its benefits. And were my students to read only this very message knowing that I wrote it, I can assure all of you that I would be summarily fired from my job despite my long record of excellent performance. Can anyone explain to me how this is a healthy cognitive environment for reasoned, objective scientific analysis?