rigorousintuition.ca

Sounder » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:46 pm wrote:

He was fortunate, in a way. On his current US campus tour, alleged threats to his free speech, and the back and forth between Yiannopoulos and his antagonists have been the only thing sustaining interest in the whole enterprise.

I know because I attended a Milo event at which there was no left reception committee. When he appears unchallenged, the Milo show is the dampest of squibs.

At the University of Oregon, where I saw him, it was not clear that he was especially grateful for the platform, or the lack of interruptions.

So then, why does anti-fa think it is doing a service in 'going after' (obvious egomaniac nut-jobs)? Why not take the more logical route of ignoring them, there-by forcing their rhetoric into ever increasing dissonance expressions, (shit that don't make sense).

Without the imposed dichotomy, the rhetoric of alt-right, and probably pretty much all political posturing becomes exposed as shallow nonsense to the less 'educated' (and mostly downtrodden) light years before our better brainwashed recognize the ultimate pointlessness of the posturing.

“From that moment on, I was no longer a liberal, a believer in the self-correcting character of American democracy. I was a radical, believing that something fundamental was wrong in this country—not just the existence of poverty amidst great wealth, not just the horrible treatment of black people, but something rotten at the root. The situation required not just a new president or new laws, but an uprooting of the old order, the introduction of a new kind of society—cooperative, peaceful, egalitarian.”

--Howard Zinn

American Dream » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:46 am wrote:There may be irreconcilable deal breakers. Such as black liberation, for one.

However, even identity politics does not have unfet­tered power in the political mainstream. Even the appearance of altering power relations in this soci­ety is, to some, a threat. These reactionaries claim that identity politics seeks special rights for certain groups. This flawed logic rests on the idea that, since people are guaranteed equality under the Constitu­tion, then the problem of legal inequality is non-existent. Even if one accepts the logic of the state, the discrepancy between legal/political equality and social equality is telling.

Another reaction to the Left’s adoption of identity politics is the rise of hard-Right identity politics. This leads to absurdities such as men’s rights move­ments, white rights movements, and groups dedi­cated to preserving Christian culture and identity. One can see a connection between these two reac­tionary positions, despite their apparent contradic­tions. Each position represents a different tactic towards the same goal: maintaining a class-based society along with the homophobic, white-suprem­acist, and patriarchal structures that uphold it. This stands in contrast to identity politics, which seeks to mildly reform class society and its institutions.

In short, there today exists a tension between pro­gressive identity politics and reactionary anti-iden­tity politics. The failure of both rests in their reliance on the state and capitalism as basis for their vision of society. Both seek to better manage the present order. It is clear: there exists a subset of people in this society that benefit from the current social or­der. These people include queer people, people of color, women, and every identity. Politicians, police, prison guards, landlords, and bosses: these are our enemies. They come in all forms.

It is equally clear that queer-bashers, rapists, and racists are similarly enemies of liberation. While in some cases these are not people with access to and the backing of institutional power, the violence they inflict is no less real or important. Indeed, their tactics are taken directly from the state, and uphold systems of control even after the formal powers of­ficially abandon them.

It is equally clear that queer-bashers, rapists, and racists are similarly enemies of liberation

coffin_dodger wrote:From AD's piece, above -

It is equally clear that queer-bashers, rapists, and racists are similarly enemies of liberation

It is equally clear that conflating queer-bashers and racists to rapist status is part of the drunk on their own ideas fanatical anti-fascist rhetoric to reduce everything to hyper realism. You are either with us, agree in entirety, or you are the enemy. There is no nuance, subtlety or comprehension that we live in a world of vastly different personalities and worldviews. Anti-fascism has become the perfect foil to Fascism.
Scary shit. I hope you enjoy the ideas you espouse when they fruit - you'll be one of very few. Maybe that's the idea.

Not all rapists are queer bashers or racists- these come in all varieties and permutations. The really flimsy straw man being floated by y'all defends who? Racists, first and foremost? Reactionaries in general? Those of the above that claim to be "fighting the power"? Maybe those who hide their evil shit under a "neither Right nor Left" banner?

Mostly likely all of the above in various times and places, as they play a shell game that fools mostly those who desperately want to be fooled..

Maybe those who hide their evil shit under a "neither Right nor Left" banner?

I know what this antifa shit means but don't get why anyone gives a fuck about it either way

coffin_dodger » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:56 am wrote:82_28 said:

I know what this antifa shit means but don't get why anyone gives a fuck about it either way

I think it's quite important to understand that this 'antifa shit' is the opposing, driving force behind where we are ultimately headed. Sorry 82, I intend to challenge fanaticism wherever I see, just as AD is allowed. I get it that you like AD - maybe you should follow your own advice and "Don't click on it if you don't want to".

American Dream » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:03 pm wrote:Surely we all know that not all rapists are queer bashers or racists- these come in all varieties and permutations. The really flimsy straw man being floated by y'all defends who? Racists, xenophobes and bigots first and foremost? Reactionaries in general? Those of the above that claim to be "fighting the power"? Maybe those of the above who hide their shit under a "neither Right nor Left" and/or "Rights" banner?

There are those who practice all of the above in various times and places, as they play a shell game that fools mostly those who desperately want to be fooled...