Air France flight missing over Atlantic

justdrew · Post by **justdrew** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:15 am

Ships from Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Peru and the United States are participating in Operacion Multinacional Alianza, a post-UNITAS Gold (50-09) naval exercise hosted by Colombia, from May 8 to 14.

well, it's close, wouldn't necessarily have to be US naval of course. A related possibility might be a collision with a flare?

Hugh Manatee Wins · Post by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:06 am

Supporting my thesis that the imminent trial of the CIA's plane bomber Carriles is being massaged in the news cycle, today-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090606/ap_ ... py_charges

Couple accused of spying for Cuba for 30 years

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – A retired State Department worker and his wife have been arrested on charges of spying for Cuba for three decades, using grocery carts among their array of tools to pass U.S. secrets to the communist government in a security breach one official described as "incredibly serious."

An indictment unsealed Friday said Walter Kendall Myers worked his way into higher and higher U.S. security clearances while secretly partnering with his wife, Gwendolyn Steingraber Myers, as clandestine agents so valued by the Cuban government that they once had a private four-hour meeting with President Fidel Castro.

State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said that the arrest culminated a three-year investigation of Myers and that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has ordered a "comprehensive damage assessment" to determine what he may have passed to the Cubans.
The Myerses' arrest could affect congressional support for easing tensions with Cuba dating back to the Cold War. Two months ago, the Obama administration took steps to relax a trade embargo imposed on the island nation in 1962.

justdrew · Post by **justdrew** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:28 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090606/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_us_cuba_spy_charges
Couple accused of spying for Cuba for 30 years

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – A retired State Department worker and his wife have been arrested on charges of spying for Cuba for three decades, using grocery carts among their array of tools to pass U.S. secrets to the communist government in a security breach one official described as "incredibly serious."

oh boy, yeah, that must have been one serious damn breach. No wonder Cuba's been kicking our ass all these years. Why now? Maybe they're just working down the backlog? ya right. wait - which Cubans? The ones in Florida or? I won't be surprised if Cuba says they've never heard of the guy.

Post by **Jeff** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:22 am

Lost plane 'sent 24 error alerts'

The Air France jet which went missing over the Atlantic sent 24 error messages minutes before it crashed, French investigators say.

Investigators also said the plane's autopilot was not on, though they do not know if it had been switched off or was not working.

Weather experts said there was no evidence storms the plane encountered were "exceptional" for the season.

...

The deputy head of the French weather service, Alain Ratier, said the weather pattern was normal at the time that Flight 447 disappeared.

"According to the analysis of the infrared images, there is nothing to suggest that there was a cluster of thunderstorms of exceptional intensity," Mr Ratier said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8086860.stm

Post by **Jeff** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:00 pm

Bodies 'found' from missing plane

Bodies and debris have been found from the Air France plane which went missing over the Atlantic last Monday, the Brazilian air force has said.

The remains were taken from the water at 0814 Brazilian time (1114 GMT), said spokesman Jorge Amaral.

Experts on human remains are on their way to examine the find.

All 228 passengers and crew on board AF 447 are believed to have been killed when the plane disappeared during its flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

"We confirm the recovery from the water debris and bodies from the Air France plane," Col Amaral said at a news conference in the northern city of Recife.

"We can't give more information without confirming what we have."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8087303.stm

RocketMan · Post by **RocketMan** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:32 pm

This is sounding more like premium RI fodder by the hour...

on edit: Not intending to sound callous, though, as we have to bear in mind that over 200 lives were apparently lost.

elpuma · Post by **elpuma** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:54 pm

Jeff wrote:
seemslikeadream wrote: And this one that says "Air France tragedy: UFO connections beyond coincidence."

http://www.allnewsweb.com/page6916912.php
That can't help but remind me:

"Brazil is different. In Brazil, UFOs maim and kill with purpose and intelligence."

The first thing I thought of when I heard of AF 447 went down... Which reminds me how much I miss your regular posts Jeff.

wintler2 · Post by **wintler2** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Ships from Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Peru and the United States are participating in Operacion Multinacional Alianza, a post-UNITAS Gold (50-09) naval exercise hosted by Colombia, from May 8 to 14. ..

Location of exercise variously given as off Florida (april 20 - may 5) & in Caribbean (may 8 - 14).

Afterward, Doyle and Kauffman will continue Southern Seas 2009 deployment to Latin America and the Caribbean until Oct.
http://usn.blog62.fc2.com/blog-date-20090508.html

USS Doyle (FFG-39) and USS Kauffman (FFG-59) are guided missile frigates. I wonder exactly where they were on 1st June.

pepsified thinker · Post by **pepsified thinker** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:21 pm

Experts on human remains are on their way to examine the find.

kind of a strange way of describing someone, don't ya think?

Exactly what kind of expert(s) are we talking about? Seems like maybe something is being carefully not said.

justdrew · Post by **justdrew** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:22 pm

wintler2 wrote:
Ships from Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Peru and the United States are participating in Operacion Multinacional Alianza, a post-UNITAS Gold (50-09) naval exercise hosted by Colombia, from May 8 to 14. ..

Location of exercise variously given as off Florida (april 20 - may 5) & in Caribbean (may 8 - 14).

Afterward, Doyle and Kauffman will continue Southern Seas 2009 deployment to Latin America and the Caribbean until Oct.
http://usn.blog62.fc2.com/blog-date-20090508.html
USS Doyle (FFG-39) and USS Kauffman (FFG-59) are guided missile frigates. I wonder exactly where they were on 1st June.

UNITAS was off Florida and was 'hosted' by the US, this second one, Operacion Multinacional Alianza, was hosted by Columbia so I guess it may well have been in Columbian waters. So I guess it's not likely that there was any involvement. but who knows? It's happened several times that military ships have shot down civilian airliners, it's at least a possibility.

wintler2 · Post by **wintler2** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:30 pm

Oops, i didn't get that they're different exercises, thanks justdrew.

Gouda · Post by **Gouda** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:26 pm

Key figures in global battle against illegal arms trade lost in Air France crash

Argentine campaigner Pablo Dreyfus and Swiss colleague Ronald Dreyer battled South American arms and drug trafficking

by Andrew McLeod

http://www.sundayherald.com/internation ... 85.0.0.php

wintler2 · Post by **wintler2** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:11 am

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/

In Memoriam

Air France crash claims two collaborators

The Small Arms Survey announces with sadness the untimely death of two close collaborators in the Air France disaster

Two close collaborators of the Small Arms Survey were aboard the ill-fated Air France flight AF 447 that disappeared over the South Atlantic in the early hours of Monday 1 June 2009. Pablo Dreyfus, accompanied by his wife Ana Carolina, and Ronald Dreyer, were among the 228 passengers and crew travelling from Rio de Janeiro to Paris aboard the airbus A330-200, when it vanished from the radars at 04h15 central European time.

Pablo Dreyfus received his Ph.D. in political science from the Graduate Institute in 2002, under the supervision of Professor Keith Krause. His research and extensive publications on international drug trafficking, and on the small arms trade in Latin America, are internationally recognised.

An Argentine national by birth, Pablo was a close collaborator with, and stalwart contributor to, the Small Arms Survey over many years. He worked in Argentina for the President's office until 2002. He later took his considerable experience and expertise to Rio de Janeiro where he worked for Viva Rio - an internationally-recognised NGO working on armed violence prevention and reduction, and a partner of the Small Arms Survey. Pablo contributed to several Small Arms Survey publications and projects, and was a respected expert in Latin America and globally.

Pablo will be remembered as a gentle and sensitive man with an upbeat sense of humour. His strong commitment to social justice on issues big and small was widely recognised and appreciated. He displayed an intellectual curiosity and a determined work ethic that excited and enthused all who worked with him. He will be dearly missed by friends and colleagues alike.

The second collaborator, Ronald Dreyer, received his Ph.D. in International Relations from the Graduate Institute in 1985. Ronald started his career as a delegate with the ICRC, and then served with United Nations missions in El Salvador, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, Angola and elsewhere. In 2006, Ronald joined the Geneva Declaration Secretariat as its coordinator, based in Geneva and working with the Swiss Permanent Mission to the UN and the Small Arms Survey.

Ronald will be remembered for his dedication and passion to promoting the issue of "armed violence and development". He was instrumental in mobilising the support of more than 100 countries to this cause. His legacy, but more importantly his warmth and good humour, will be greatly missed by all who knew him.

The staff of the Small Arms Survey extend their condolences to the families and loved ones of both these friends and collaborators. Our thoughts are with them all at this sad and difficult time.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:39 pm

Now same reported by Sunday Herald:
http://www.sundayherald.com/internation ... 85.0.0.php

snippet:

AMID THE media frenzy and speculation over the disappearance of Air France’s ill-fated Flight 447, the loss of two of the world’s most prominent figures in the war on the illegal arms trade and international drug trafficking has been virtually overlooked.

Pablo Dreyfus, a 39-year-old Argentine who was travelling with his wife Ana Carolina Rodrigues aboard the doomed flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, had worked tirelessly with the Brazilian authorities to stem the flow of arms and ammunition that for years has fuelled the bloody turf wars waged by drug gangs in Rio’s sprawling favelas.

Also travelling with Dreyfus on the doomed flight was his friend and colleague Ronald Dreyer, a Swiss diplomat and co-ordinator of the Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence who had worked with UN missions in El Salvador, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Kosovo and Angola. Both men were consultants at the Small Arms Survey, an independent think tank based at Geneva’s Graduate Institute of International Studies. The Survey said on its website that Dryer had helped mobilise the support of more than 100 countries to the cause of disarmament and development.

Saw that on Cryptogon.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:09 am

An article pondering whether the fly-by-wire system of Airbus was to blame:

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/mai ... SCJUNN2JVN

snippet, lots of links in the article -

It's no secret that commercial airplanes are heavily computerized, but as the mystery of Air France Flight 447 unfolds, we need to come to grips with the fact that in many cases, airline pilots' hands are tied when it comes to responding effectively to an emergency situation.

It's been well established that Air France Flight 447 went down because on-board computers received conflicting information from sensors on the outside of the plane.

But while most reports are focusing on why the sensors gave incorrect information (icing, an electrical fire. etc.), the more substantive issue is that the pilots of Flight 447 never had a fighting chance because their airplane's controls were never in their hands -- they were in the hands of the on-board computers made by the likes of Northrup Grumman, Litton and Honeywell.

Flight 447 was an Airbus, which uses so-called "fly-by-wire" technology that relies entirely on electronic rather than hydraulic and manual systems. Boeing jets also use fly-by-wire, but allow pilots to override computers in an emergency -- whereas Airbus systems don't.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -a330.html

French investigators have this morning confirmed that automatic messages transmitted by the Air France Airbus A330-200 lost four days ago show that the aircraft was experiencing conflicting airspeed information from its on-board sensors.

The brief statement from investigation agency BEA follows the issuance by Airbus of a telex to operators reminding them of immediate actions to be taken by crews in the event of unreliable airspeed indications.

It says: "Many more or less accurate or attempted explanations of the accident are currently circulating. The BEA reminds one that in such circumstances it is best to avoid any hasty interpretation or speculation based on fragmentary and unvalidated information."

At this stage of the investigation, it says, the only elements established are:
The presence near the planned route of the aircraft over the Atlantic of signifcant convective cells characteristic of the equatorial regions
From the automatic messages transmitted by the aircraft, the inconsistency of the different measured speeds.

The Airbus telex states: "The route of the aircraft was crossing a tropical multicell convective area at the time of the accident. Failure/maintenance messages have been transmitted automatically from the aircraft to the airline maintenance centre.

"The above mentioned messages indicate that there was an inconsistency between the different measured airspeeds. Therefore, and without prejudging the final outcome of the investigation, the data available leads Airbus to remind operators what are the applicable operational recommendations in case of unreliable airspeed indication."

It then provides operations manuals references for the entire Airbus-fielded fleet of aircraft.

A 2001 airworthiness directive previously mandated operators to ensure that aircraft flight manuals were updated with the procedures in the event of unreliable airspeed indications following a series of such events on the type. It indicated that severe icing of the pitot tubes or physical loss of the radome, which additionally requires an increase in power to counter the drag, were potential causes.

Sources in Brazil familiar with the investigative work say that icing is a key focus of investigation.

And from comments of first story, a conflicting opinion:

Good article ... except that it's UTTERLY WRONG.

All Airbus aircraft allow FULL aircraft control as needed, with no computer interference, right down to direct hydraulic control should all electrical systems fail.

See: http://www.airbusdriver.net/airbus_fltlaws.htm

Note that more direct control is automatically given to the pilot as flight systems fail (eg. If the Pitot tubes start giving weird readings).

The real problem Flight 447 had is that the "battle-tested pilot sitting up front" directed it right through the middle of an enormous thundercloud - along with all the turbulence, icing, massive updrafts, hailstones, etc. that are commonly found inside them.

fwiw.