Terrorists take Eagles of Death Metal show in Paris hostage

[solace]

I don't recall any army checkpoints at any of the sites in Paris.

[82_28]

Just drop it, solace.

No. How bout YOU stop posting anything I don't like. How bout them apples?

Trust me. You'll like everything I ever post. You're totally taking this way too seriously as far as Alice. Chill, chief.

[DrEvil]

I don't recall any army checkpoints at any of the sites in Paris.

Maybe you should read my full post, or would that ruin your trolling?

[km artlu]

Very different levels of discourse going on here. Plain to see.
"Shall we examine the motivations for and applications of human violence?"
"Fuck you!"

[seemslikeadream]

[tapitsbo]

I don't disagree with Alice that suicide bombing has to be understood in light of strategic bombing, drones, etc. etc.

It's interesting however that the LTTE ultimately seem to have been losing their war whereas other groups have had great success with other less direct methods.

[JackRiddler]

Did you see her CONDEMN it? No.She offered up excuses for it. To lead up to a delusional ideological conclusion about ISIS "not existing," ie being, in reality, Israel and the West. So that would be her and all her delusional backers doing the twisting.

JackRiddler asked two questions that I tried to answer as thoughtfully and thoroughly as possible. I don't think the questions were addressed to you, and my answer certainly wasn't.

If there is something I wrote that you dispute, then quote it, and explain why you believe it is wrong. If you can't do that, then keep quiet. Stop the personal attacks, please, and stop derailing this thread and trying to drag it down to your level.

Indeed, I think that is exactly what you did, and very persuasively as far as trying to get at the motivations and purposes of suicide bombing as a war tactic, historically. There was no endorsement of suicide bombing or any other kind of bombing in what you wrote, and indeed I think there is a serious reading comprehension fail from solace (never mind 4B). This doesn't mean I endorse your view of ISIS as a hologram (a real beast borne and fed from the history of Western wars, yes, but a real beast), or as foremost a Zionist one, but your view, in turn, is clearly to abhor all that is attributed to ISIS, whatever its origins may be, and not to endorse any kind of terrorism, as some here are puzzingly implying.

[stoneonstone]

Man, this AlicethKurious sideshow is pretty well crossed into the WGAF catategory; I thought all of you were supposed to be way smarter than us average mortals...and yet this. You may as well argue over the evils of the film Four Lions (funny, in the sam way that the old Irish film No Surrender was).

Me, well I'm much more curious about Mahoud Admo, the 26 year old who was staying at the Salvation Army hostel in Rue de Charonne opposite the Le Belle Equipe. His account of the shooting is disturbingly coherent...and yet, his observations, and Mr Admo, have both sunk to invisibility.

If I was a journalist over across the pond, I know who I'd be trying to get hold of, before he vanishes forever.

[Nordic]

My first response to FB's outburst: the guy just isn't very smart.

To Solace: why is he/she even here. They contribute nothing. They are the very definition of a troll. And they're also pretty fucking stupid.

Alice's piece was a fantastic bit of writing and extremely informative. Anyone who sees what she wrote as a celebration or justification of suicide bombing is simply an idiot.

The world needs far more Alice's and way way way less Solace's.

But getting back to topic.

To say that it seems likely that the "suicide" bombings in Paris were in fact remotely-detonated bombs attached to either unwitting or unwilling patsies certainly does not mean that ALL suicide bombings throughout the known universe were such.

Remember that bizarre story a few years ago where some poor slob had a bomb wrapped around his neck and he was commanded to rob a bank or they were going to blow it up? Well the technology for this sort of thing has only gotten way better in the ensuing years.

On edit: this guy:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_o ... glas_Wells

[psynapz]

Me, well I'm much more curious about Mahoud Admo, the 26 year old who was staying at the Salvation Army hostel in Rue de Charonne opposite the Le Belle Equipe. His account of the shooting is disturbingly coherent...and yet, his observations, and Mr Admo, have both sunk to invisibility.

If I was a journalist over across the pond, I know who I'd be trying to get hold of, before he vanishes forever.

Given how Sorcha Faal somehow outranks everybody else in a search for his name, I didn't believe there even was an interview until I found the source link:

http://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paris- ... ck-6834503

Here's the entirety of the section about Admo:

Trembling as he recalled how the massacre unfolded, he said: “I was just in my room and had the window open on to the street below.

"I could see lots people sat outside the bar eating dinner and enjoying a drink. The place was full of people just enjoying themselves.

“At about 9.30pm a new looking black Mercedes pulled up outside with dark tinted windows at the back and the passenger and driver windows down. I could clearly see the passenger’s face as he was not ­wearing a hat or mask.

“As soon as the car stopped he quietly opened the door and got out in front of the restaurant.

“That is when I saw he was ­holding a machine gun that was resting on his hip. I could not take in what I was witnessing.

“People outside spotted the shooter approaching with his gun and tried to run inside but he shot them down in the doorway.

“Then people inside moved ­forward to see what was happening and he sprayed more bullets into them. I was trying to catch them on my camera phone but the gunman saw the light on my mobile and I ducked down behind the wall as they fired at my hotel. The gunman calmly reloaded his weapon several times. He then shot up at the windows in the street to make sure nobody was filming anything or taking photographs. It lasted over six minutes

“He fired lots of bullets. He was white, clean shaven and had dark hair neatly trimmed. He was dressed all in black accept for a red scarf.

“The shooter was aged about 35 and had an extremely muscular build, which you could tell from the size of his arms. He looked like a weightlifter.

“He was not wearing gloves and his face was expressionless as he walked towards the bar.

“The driver had opened his door shortly before the shooting began and stood up with his arm and a machine gun rested on the roof of the car. He stood there with his foot up in the door acting as a lookout.

“I would describe him as tall, with dark hair and also quite muscular.

“They looked like soldiers or mercenaries and carried the whole thing out like a military operation. It was clear that they were both very heavily armed and the gunman was carrying several magazines on him.

“They both then coolly sat back in the car and sped off in the direction of the Bataclan Theatre.”

Mr Admo added: “After about five minutes the police and ambulances arrived. There were about 20 bodies lying dead outside the bar and all the windows around were cracked from bullets. It was sickening. You could see where people had been shot.

“There were about eight ambulances to take injured survivors away. People were crying and screaming as they ­began to realise what had happened.

“Around 5am the dead bodies were laid out in the street under yellow ­blankets until they were taken away in ambulances.” Yesterday mourners ­began laying flowers and candles in tribute to the dead outside the bullet-­ridden front of Le Belle Equipe.

A few contradictory thoughts on the bits I bolded:

1. The shooters expected to get away, and not just to die later at the Bataclan; they were paranoid about being recorded sufficiently to spray anti-surveillance cover behind them. If they were on a suicide mission to raise awareness for their cause, and weren't planning to loiter at this early mission waypoint before heading into glorious immortality in the name of Syria at the Bataclan, why so smartphone-shy in 2015? I mean, fuck it, right? ISIS is nothing if not modern media savvy.

2. They took no care to remain unidentifible at close range.

3. Light brown or olive-complected skin looks under street lights at night like Caucasian skin, inasmuch as anyone lighter than 50% gray would look in warm low-light conditions, regardless of hue. This guy says "white" but I just read that as "not dark-skinned compared to poorly-lit diners".

[Joao]

Great post from Alice. And to think I'd only skimmed it until seeing all the heartache.

Does this stuff in Dabiq appeal to anyone? If so, to whom? They aren't going to be like "us" here on this board, that is for sure. But do people who are attracted to this kind of thing exist?.

Does it really seem so different (in its own context) from other quasi-intellectual death-and-honor glorifying periodicals?



Just replace religious devotion with military ethic (where necessary). Granted, there are surely other, more extreme examples than SOF and Dabiq is probably a little more conscious of its politics. I think the fact that Dabiq publishes in English (and apparently other languages according to Wikipedia) adds an interesting wrinkle, but it still seems like they fill roughly the same niche. (The question of either publication's origin notwithstanding.)

[slomo]

3. Light brown or olive-complected skin looks under street lights at night like Caucasian skin, inasmuch as anyone lighter than 50% gray would look in warm low-light conditions, regardless of hue. This guy says "white" but I just read that as "not dark-skinned compared to poorly-lit diners".

Are you sure about that? Is "white" an accurate translation? And in English, "white" means different things in different contexts. Even in the US. For example, "white/non-white" distinction in the northeast is often about European vs. African ancestry, while "white/non-white" on the west coast is more about western European vs. everything else (especially Latino). My point being that "white" is heavily contextual. What does "white" mean to an individual named Mahoud Admo?

[identity]

Bull-fucking-shit.
Alice, specifically, is fucking evil.

And you're a fragile little thing, Jesus. Enjoy a week off.

My first response to FB's outburst: the guy just isn't very smart.

To Solace: why is he/she even here. They contribute nothing. They are the very definition of a troll. And they're also pretty fucking stupid.

Alice's piece was a fantastic bit of writing and extremely informative. Anyone who sees what she wrote as a celebration or justification of suicide bombing is simply an idiot.

C'mon fellas, you really think FB is either fragile or an idiot? (or both?!) I submit that he is neither. I would think that this would be obvious to most who are gathered here.

(I won't waste more space than I am right this moment on solace...)

Did you see her CONDEMN it? No.She offered up excuses for it. To lead up to a delusional ideological conclusion about ISIS "not existing," ie being, in reality, Israel and the West. So that would be her and all her delusional backers doing the twisting.

JackRiddler asked two questions that I tried to answer as thoughtfully and thoroughly as possible. I don't think the questions were addressed to you, and my answer certainly wasn't.

If there is something I wrote that you dispute, then quote it, and explain why you believe it is wrong. If you can't do that, then keep quiet. Stop the personal attacks, please, and stop derailing this thread and trying to drag it down to your level.

Indeed, I think that is exactly what you did, and very persuasively as far as trying to get at the motivations and purposes of suicide bombing as a war tactic, historically. There was no endorsement of suicide bombing or any other kind of bombing in what you wrote, and indeed I think there is a serious reading comprehension fail from solace (never mind 4B). This doesn't mean I endorse your view of ISIS as a hologram (a real beast borne and fed from the history of Western wars, yes, but a real beast), or as foremost a Zionist one, but your view, in turn, is clearly to abhor all that is attributed to ISIS, whatever its origins may be, and not to endorse any kind of terrorism, as some here are puzzingly implying.

[Scratches head] Gee, wonder why they would want to imply such a thing!

Well, as long as these performers don't give AtK second thoughts about posting here as much as he has been of late, I guess we just have to take their ridiculous rants as unavoidable roughage, and continue to focus on the meaty/meaningful content coming from sources such as AtK.

[AlicetheKurious]

Me, well I'm much more curious about Mahoud Admo, the 26 year old who was staying at the Salvation Army hostel in Rue de Charonne opposite the Le Belle Equipe. His account of the shooting is disturbingly coherent...and yet, his observations, and Mr Admo, have both sunk to invisibility.

If I was a journalist over across the pond, I know who I'd be trying to get hold of, before he vanishes forever.

Given how Sorcha Faal somehow outranks everybody else in a search for his name, I didn't believe there even was an interview until I found the source link:

http://mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paris- ... ck-6834503

Here's the entirety of the section about Admo:

Trembling as he recalled how the massacre unfolded, he said: “I was just in my room and had the window open on to the street below.

"I could see lots people sat outside the bar eating dinner and enjoying a drink. The place was full of people just enjoying themselves.

“At about 9.30pm a new looking black Mercedes pulled up outside with dark tinted windows at the back and the passenger and driver windows down. I could clearly see the passenger’s face as he was not ­wearing a hat or mask.

“As soon as the car stopped he quietly opened the door and got out in front of the restaurant.

“That is when I saw he was ­holding a machine gun that was resting on his hip. I could not take in what I was witnessing.

“People outside spotted the shooter approaching with his gun and tried to run inside but he shot them down in the doorway.

“Then people inside moved ­forward to see what was happening and he sprayed more bullets into them. I was trying to catch them on my camera phone but the gunman saw the light on my mobile and I ducked down behind the wall as they fired at my hotel. The gunman calmly reloaded his weapon several times. He then shot up at the windows in the street to make sure nobody was filming anything or taking photographs. It lasted over six minutes

“He fired lots of bullets. He was white, clean shaven and had dark hair neatly trimmed. He was dressed all in black accept for a red scarf.

“The shooter was aged about 35 and had an extremely muscular build, which you could tell from the size of his arms. He looked like a weightlifter.

“He was not wearing gloves and his face was expressionless as he walked towards the bar.

“The driver had opened his door shortly before the shooting began and stood up with his arm and a machine gun rested on the roof of the car. He stood there with his foot up in the door acting as a lookout.

“I would describe him as tall, with dark hair and also quite muscular.

“They looked like soldiers or mercenaries and carried the whole thing out like a military operation. It was clear that they were both very heavily armed and the gunman was carrying several magazines on him.

“They both then coolly sat back in the car and sped off in the direction of the Bataclan Theatre.”

Mr Admo added: “After about five minutes the police and ambulances arrived. There were about 20 bodies lying dead outside the bar and all the windows around were cracked from bullets. It was sickening. You could see where people had been shot.

“There were about eight ambulances to take injured survivors away. People were crying and screaming as they ­began to realise what had happened.

“Around 5am the dead bodies were laid out in the street under yellow ­blankets until they were taken away in ambulances.” Yesterday mourners ­began laying flowers and candles in tribute to the dead outside the bullet-­ridden front of Le Belle Equipe.

That is an incredible find. No wonder it's been buried. (BTW, as far as I know, there's no such name as "Mahoud"; it must be "Mahmoud")

[AlicetheKurious]

It's interesting however that the LTTE ultimately seem to have been losing their war whereas other groups have had great success with other less direct methods.

Actually, that's one of the lessons of history that targeted peoples and nations need to learn. All other considerations aside, suicide bombing or even guerrilla warfare as a sole or primary tactic of war against any state is by far the least effective weapon there is, and has inevitably led to defeat; that's why I emphasized its emotional parameters, and that historically, in real cases, it's been the weapon of last resort, when no other means are available to correct a vast imbalance of military power.

That's not to say it always fails, but when it has been effective, it was employed only as a very, very limited tactical weapon, to achieve very specific tactical objectives, and only as part of a much wider war plan using a variety of means, including conventional, propaganda and guerrilla warfare, and only with the overt or covert support of one or more states. Mythology aside, alone, suicide bombing (and guerrilla warfare in general) not only accomplishes very little in terms of actual damage to the enemy; unless it is backed by the kind of resources only possessed by states, it ends up doing much more good to the enemy than harm, and much more harm to the suicide bomber's cause than good.