Is This What I Have To Look Forward To With My Daughter?

[82_28]

Here is a seminal paper by James W. Prescott that I just remembered. Very much worth the read, if one hasn't read it yet. Carl Sagan featured much of this in his final chapter of Cosmos: "Who Speaks for Earth".

BODY PLEASURE AND THE ORIGINS OF VIOLENCE

Violence against sexuality and the use of sexuality for violence, particularly against women, has very deep roots in Biblical tradition.

http://www.violence.de/prescott/bulletin/article.html

[justdrew]

They're not showing skin. The girls in question are showing a lot of skin.

Something tells me you don't have kids, Cuda.

it's hard to dance in a burqa. Fear of what some theoretical bad person might see is a little unreasonable. To hell with Fear.

Here's another source of alarming attire...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd74xn_autism-disco-and-me-promo_shortfilms

[Project Willow]

I'm just going to throw this one point into the mix. I get that an issue in this discussion is the sexualization of children, but some are making the assumption that putting adult clothes on girls' bodies makes them more attractive to pedophiles. As far as I know pedo desire is not marked by any single set of features. Did I really just say that?
Many of them (stats anyone? ugh) prefer children to look like children, pigtails, little ruffled dresses, ribbons, etc. That's what turns them on.

I could not wear pink until I was in my thirties.

Off to relieve nausea now.

[lightningBugout]

I wonder if part of what could be happening is that the sexualization of young girls is part of a larger psycho-social trend that has been mainstreaming pedophilia for the past few decades (probably at least in part the result of the expanded child consumer field). I always think of this when I encounter the jeremiads of Nancy Grace et al against the lone wolf sociopath child murdering pedophile - that as children are increasingly sexualized in our culture, there is ever greater psychological need to create a scapegoat to cast off internal recognition that kids like Jon Benet Ramsey have been transformed into sex objects.

I agree that this video almost seems less likely to pique the paraphilic desire of a pedophile than to encourage otherwise regular heterosexual men to be aroused by little girls. After all, so much of heteronormative female sexiness is a set of associated gestures and accoutrements.

It actually reminds me of that "Newgon" organization that got discussed here last fall. It was pretty much completely wretched but I remember there was a discussion (and poll) on their site about how the site's pedo users "legally got off." The vast majority used mainstream porn because so many of the men and women therein had been selected due to their looking small, young etc.

[JackRiddler]

I wonder if part of what could be happening is that the sexualization of young girls is part of a larger psycho-social trend that has been mainstreaming pedophilia for the past few decades (probably at least in part the result of the expanded child consumer field). I always think of this when I encounter the jeremiads of Nancy Grace et al against the lone wolf sociopath child murdering pedophile - that as children are increasingly sexualized in our culture, there is ever greater psychological need to create a scapegoat to cast off internal recognition that kids like Jon Benet Ramsey have been transformed into sex objects.

I agree that this video almost seems less likely to pique the paraphilic desire of a pedophile than to encourage otherwise regular heterosexual men to be aroused by little girls. After all, so much of heteronormative female sexiness is a set of associated gestures and accoutrements.

Sharp.

[Simulist]

I don't understand how a "regular heterosexual" man could possibly "be aroused by little girls" — if he's aroused by little girls, he's not very "regular," is he?

[barracuda]

"regular heterosexual" man

Whatever the hell that turns out to be.

[Simulist]

Well, yeah. I'm not sure exactly what that might mean either — except to say that if a man has no urges in the direction of pedophilia, he's just not going to be "aroused by little girls." No matter what they might be wearing. Or how they danced. Such a thing would simply never occur to him. It would be literally unthinkable.

[barracuda]

Right. It seems unlikely that some familiar set of gestures and apparel can drive one to perversion when wielded by a child. Though I don't think that's necessarily what LBO meant.

[alwyn]

Coming in late to the discussion, but I don't particularly like the moves, and if they got it off 'the chipmunks', it's the fault of the cartoonists for putting their fantasy moves on screen. There really is no reason for having young girls mimic sexual moves. This hyper-sexualization of the culture seems to be concocted soley for the satisfaction of really rich old men who can't get it up anymore, and the rest of society bought into it. Oh, was that my outside voice?

Re belly dancing, there is a form of dancing called 'tribal'. Way less sexual, and the whole body is covered. It's about control of the body, and flow, and heart. Our culture needs way more of this. Heart, that is. But heart is a mark of higher civilization, and there is precious little of that going around these days. I try not to despair, but it really underscores the need to present our children with the possibility of something 'more'. On that note, back to work to try and create this. So far, my boy is heading down the route of heart, and my prayers are for his continuing in that direction.

[Crow]

I've just started Bruce Chilton's book, "Abraham's Curse" about the etiology of violence in the Abrahamic religions and which frames many aspects of our time (like, say, Jingoism) in terms of the story of Abraham / Isaac. He convinces me that the "aqedah" is a crucial, foundational aspect of our culture and one that goes a long way towards explaining all sorts of common psychological / transpersonal phenomena.

I never heard anyone discussing it, but I always thought that this was the theme of the Sopranos, particularly the last season.

Sounds like a wonderful book.

[82_28]

I don't understand how a "regular heterosexual" man could possibly "be aroused by little girls" — if he's aroused by little girls, he's not very "regular," is he?

No. But she is.



It's a joke about being "regular" btw concerning those commercials for activia

[AmyRose]

This is the trailer for the World of Dance tour:




All these kids are incredible hip hop artists! Look at all those black, brown, yellow, and *gulp* even white children that can dance at an urban dance competition. What madness!

As for the video in question. It was meant to be seen by those who enjoy dance and all its many forms, including hip hop. The choreography plays off of hip hop and cheerleading choreography (with excellent fouettés and pirouettes in the mix). I am assuming the costumes are from the chipmunk cartoon that I briefly saw on the tube? Within the broader context of the video that I just posted, I see nothing wrong with it.

I agree with everything Barracuda posted on this thread. People don't realize how difficult the routines are. Hip hop is a very freeing dance form. You have to have great rhythm, strong body control, and a lot of mental strength. At 8 years old I was taking my first jazz class and trying to perfect a jazz square. My teacher was a very old school "broadway-style" jazz teacher. I would have loved the exposure of this hip hop tour at that time too. I wonder how many years these kids have been dancing. You can tell they love it and they are having fun and so is the crowd that's there to dance. That's all that matters. If people want to use 1 video and turn it into an outrage on society as a whole, enjoy.

[nathan28]

I kind of agree with most of what I read here. It's not necessary to Satanic Panic over this. At the same time I believe that it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that there's something wrong with putting little girls in lacy bikinis on stage, because there is a message involved. If those were, say, Brazilian seven-year-olds, it'd be fine, b/c in Brazil they're more open about states of dress and undress, so there'd be no signification going on.

LBO's comments are worth noting. Speaking of 'scapegoats' and victims http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=10651572

[barracuda]

Well if you wanna go there, nathan, the contest was held in California. For those of you not acclimated to local custom, it is a total commonplace here to see girls and women of every age wearing halter tops and short shorts, as well as shirtless boys and men in what would be referred to anywhere else as bathing attire, in every conceivable social situation, and nobody bats an eye. I'm not necessarily proud of that fact, but it is a fact. I rather doubt, though, that venacular California bedizen had any bearing on the choice of constumes in this particular case. I'm only saying that encountering rather provocative dressing modes of near-nudity is, in this state, remarkably unexceptional.