Re: When Facts Don’t Matter
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:31 pm
bhp wrote:
For me the significance of this in the context of current reality is that it's appears to be a consequence of Chomsky's outlook that serious political resistance would only be justified if it could reasonably be claimed that a more just society would foreseeably issue from it. Chomsky would say you're responsible for the foreseeable consequences of your actions, but just what the limits on the 'foreseeable' are in an extended political struggle, it's very difficult to say. All actions have the possibility of producing unintended and unforeseen consequences, some of which are foreseeable and some of which will never be.
I don't think this is so, bhp. As evidence I would call your attention to the following part of the exchange between Chomsky and Foucault. The second bolded passage is the key one:My guess is that it's the ism-ness of Marxism and Freudianism that Chomsky is referring to when he makes the theological analogy. It is precisely the ism-ness that turns these living bodies of thought into irrational (inflexible) cults. It's the inflexibility that is irrational. Hence it seems unlikely that you are correct when you assert that Chomsky "believes (without being able to 'sketch it out' precisely) that there's an 'absolute' sense of justice that can be articulated to justify (or fail to justify) revolutionary action", revolutionary action being inclusive of violence, since he states, "I'm not saying there is an absolute.. . For example, I am not a committed pacifist. I would not hold that it is under all imaginable circumstances wrong to use violence, even though use of violence is in some sense unjust. I believe that one has to estimate relative justices."
Chomsky clearly thinks there's an ideal notion of justice that can be drawn on, even if it can't be fully sketched out. The 'non-absolutist' aspect of his formulation you referenced earlier refers to his not being an absolutist about nonviolence, I believe.FOUCAULT:
If you like, I will be a little bit Nietzschean about this; in other words, it seems to me that the idea of justice in itself is an idea which in effect has been invented and put to work in different types of societies as an instrument of a certain political and economic power or as a weapon against that power. But it seems to me that, in any case, the notion of justice itself functions within a society of classes as a claim made by the oppressed class and as justification for it.
CHOMSKY:
I don't agree with that.
FOUCAULT:
And in a classless society, I am not sure that we would still use this notion of justice.
CHOMSKY:
Well, here I really disagree. I think there is some sort of an absolute basis--if you press me too hard I'll be in trouble, because I can't sketch it out-ultimately residing in fundamental human qualities, in terms of which a "real" notion of justice is grounded.
Actually, I think what Foucault is saying is that justice is a construct whomever uses it, proletarian, bourgeois, whomever. It's true he uses the proletariat in the example above, but in the first bolded section I quoted right above he makes it clear that justice, as a discursive weapon, can be deployed by any group or class in a society.bph:
Foucault contends that the notion of "justice" is a proletarian construct intended as a weapon to oppress the oppressors. Ridiculous. I think Chomsky misunderstood Foucault, but Chomsky does not simply occupy the opposite of an either/or concept of justice in response, as you suggest, and claim that there is some absolute sense of justice that exists apart from imperfect human beings.
For me the significance of this in the context of current reality is that it's appears to be a consequence of Chomsky's outlook that serious political resistance would only be justified if it could reasonably be claimed that a more just society would foreseeably issue from it. Chomsky would say you're responsible for the foreseeable consequences of your actions, but just what the limits on the 'foreseeable' are in an extended political struggle, it's very difficult to say. All actions have the possibility of producing unintended and unforeseen consequences, some of which are foreseeable and some of which will never be.
