Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

[Luther Blissett]

Honestly, any hand-wringing over Ramsey just = Proof that you can't please some people.
He should be an unmitigated hero whose refreshing candor and liveliness is enjoyed.
The impulse to find something problematic, always something problematic = lame.

I say the guy is a hero, especially for kicking a door in knowing that he's black and thereby suspicious to law enforcement already. I'm taking the disdain from the black activist community that whites created autotuned meme videos for someone who should be considered a black hero as accurate and legitimate.

[Luther Blissett]

[quote="chump]http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2013/05/CharlesRamsey.html

... But as Judas Disney points out to me, we have met a Philadelphia "Charles Ramsey" before - and his name was linked to Aurora and The Dark Knight Rises...

... arcadiapariah said:
The Charles H. Ramsey noted above as the Commissioner of the Philadelphia Police Department formerly served as the Chief of the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia from 1998-2006. In 2002 he oversaw the investigation when the remains of Chandra Levy were found, which resulted in the scandal around Rep. Gary Condit [NB: Ingmar Grandique was convicted in 2011 for the murder and sentenced to 60 years]. Commissioner Ramsey is also remembered for his "heavy-handed" response to the dissent surrounding the IMF/World Bank meeting in September, 2002.

For those in the DC Metro area, his is a familiar face; seen almost nightly in the viewing area during that era...

[/quote]

Yeah, the name Charles Ramsey actually had a bittering effect on me, leftover from my experiences at the RNC 2000 and just from being a young person in Philly during his tenure. Though his involvement in entrapment behavior, brutality, and general insanity during the RNC was particularly egregious.

[Hunter]

I majored in psychology and started grad school to get my PhD in psychology before changing my mind and going to law school instead but in psychology one of the things criminals are really in to is trying to justify their actions somehow, so you would assume Castro maybe used this Sowel guy to convince himself that he wasnt so bad compared to Sowel, and that sort of justification allows him to keep going and doing what he does to the girls. That is how the minds of the real sick depraved criminals operate, always trying to justify their actions with things like saying they were molested as kids so its not their fault they turned out this way, we already see Castro justifying taking these girls by saying the reason they are there is because they got in to a car with a stranger, instead of the normal mind that would understand that they are there not because of that but more because HE TOOK THEM, them getting in to the car wasnt the problem it was his decision to abduct them once they were in the car, but in his sick mind its their fault for getting in the car in the first place. Rapists think they same way, the girls deserve it because they wear short skirts etc. Sick sick sick.

[Freitag]

It's shocking how often cases like this pop up.

In fact, They're extremely rare.

Compared to what? Other types of crime? Well, of course. Compared to a sane world where people don't kidnap sex slaves? Shockingly often.

[Col Quisp]

Hey Alchemy,
I did the same thing - started out going for PhD in psych but changed to law school. big mistake!!!

[IanEye]

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... 28#p502628

*


if no one comes by morning
& the sun is rising red
if no one comes by morning
please forgive me my friend



be careful where you send me

*

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Here is an observation, don't know what it means: Elizabeth Smart, who went through the same ordeal, was in Washington D.C. speaking or receiving some kind of award at the same time as this story was unfolding. Just a coincidence in my mind.

As far as the Sowell thing goes, this popped in my mind. A blurb from Glee promos I see on Fox.

"I bet you're a big star back in Iowa."

"I'm from Ohio."

"Oh, even worse."

Something rotten in Ohio?

[Project Willow]

^ Yes, she took the opportunity to point out a highly negative side of abstinance-only programs.

When Smart spoke at a Johns Hopkins University panel last week, she explained one of the factors deterring her from escaping her attacker: She felt so worthless after being raped that she felt unfit to return to her society, which had communicated some hard and fast rules about premarital sexual contact.

“I remember in school one time, I had a teacher who was talking about abstinence,” Smart told the panel. “And she said, ‘Imagine you’re a stick of gum. When you engage in sex, that’s like getting chewed. And if you do that lots of times, you’re going to become an old piece of gum, and who is going to want you after that?’ Well, that’s terrible. No one should ever say that. But for me, I thought, ‘I’m that chewed-up piece of gum.’ Nobody re-chews a piece of gum. You throw it away. And that’s how easy it is to feel you no longer have worth. Your life no longer has value.”

..................

As to whether cases like the OP are rare, not when you count trafficking and other forms of sexual slavery. Trafficking is done for purposes of commercial exploitation, while perps like Castro are holding their victims captive for their own personal use. The lack of a commercial component may be what both drives the fascination of the public, and allows the media its feeding frenzy, as they need not worry as much about stepping on some elite toes that might be connected to a trafficking network.

Modes of confinement for the purpose of sexual slavery can range from purely physical or mental, to some combination of the two. Most MC vics I know are used for several decades of their lives.

.................

What Castro did I would also consider torture. As far as I know, there are no laws in Ohio specifically addressing (non-state) torture.

[8bitagent]

That DA talking about murder charges is a dumbfuck. Even if youre pro life, pursuing that angle is stupid. Especially when you got him on rape of underage girls, which alone is life in prison.

Why? On many levels. I call bullshit for this round. This tale seems impossible and yet all too probable. There's something far more to this.

And it is pure evil.

Well thankfully, I guess...this has a positive outcome. These four women are going to inspire and help a lot of people. And we're gonna see the pathology unspooled of what makes someone do this.
Often these cases are of a rape then kill M.O. either its a one off or they're serial killers. But the idea of serial collectors for some reason I think seems even more bizarre(as if serial killings arent damn bizarre enough)
This is turning out to be one of the best examples of a serial collector.

"killings not his alterior motive...this guy's a collector"


The Ariel Castro case is right out of hollywood, even tho its completely all too real. Three different young girls abducted over a several year period, kept in a creepy 19th century house that was transformed into an inescapable torture dungeon.

[8bitagent]

Does he think like us "What a sick fuck that guy is!"

Does he cheer Sowel on as a fellow piece of shit and sexual predator?

"Oh see I am not such a bad guy after all, I mean look what THIS guy did!"

My question, is there ever a time of normal?

Was there a time when Ariel is on the shitter or lying in bed, in a moment of fragility, thinking "man Im a fucked up person?"...is there ever an innocent thought? Like "man the weather was odd tonight, I wonder what
Seinfeld rerun it is tonight?" Like did he ever have normal interactions with them, as in "hey what do ya want for dinner? I rented a movie"?

Three girls/women, and soon a child produced...kept in a windowless dungeon like captivity. Is there ever a "normal"? Is it horror and fear 24/7? I mean over a decade, christ.
I still dont get how in a neighborhood not in the middle of nowhere, someone can keep not one, not two, but four people captive in a house and noone else knows.

This story captures the imagination of the public because it's just hard to wrap ones mind around. Oh, serial killer who kidnaps and kills kids? oh, whatever. but a guy who collects human beings. For some reason
that seems to really stick out to people. The only thing more bizarre I can think of is that german cannibal killer whose victims were seemingly all too willing

[ShinShinKid]

What's super ominous is the fact that something like 26 other girls and women went missing around this house, were abducted in the same area as the freed women, and are still missing and unaccounted for.
They need to start digging, and not just literally, what if this guy had multiple aliases, houses, set-ups, etc. What if he is part of a bigger network?

[8bitagent]

What's super ominous is the fact that something like 26 other girls and women went missing around this house, were abducted in the same area as the freed women, and are still missing and unaccounted for.
They need to start digging, and not just literally, what if this guy had multiple aliases, houses, set-ups, etc. What if he is part of a bigger network?

The narrative seems to be that as he reeled from a divorce, he got more depressed and desperate and then modified his house to be a cage of sort for this sort of acitivity. Then figured, what the hell, I'll add to my collection.
He seemed like he truly didnt care and got reckless. It is weird he didnt seem to kill anyone(not including Ohios "personhood" law) Maybe in his sick mind he thought it was ok if noone got killed. Not sure why he wanted an offspring bore from this unholy situation. Not sure if he's part of a wider plot or if he had other places. He seems kind of poor.

[FourthBase]

Castro himself need not have personally kidnapped/enslaved/worse any of the other 26 for there to be some connections. Okay, let's say he was relatively poor. (Not THAT poor, though!) Who are his friends? Not his BBQ buddies. Who are his good friends...or did he only ever befriend his brothers and "befriend" three girls he kidnapped and enslaved? Was the CIA thing a pure hallucination? Or maybe he really did work for the CIA? Or, did he have friends who told him they worked for the CIA, and wink-wink told him he was doing unofficial work for them?

[8bitagent]

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS FAMILY????
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51819774/ns/u ... Y4Y7_Iufes

Daughter of Cleveland abduction suspect slashed her baby's throat NDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - The daughter of Ariel Castro, the chief suspect in the Cleveland abduction of three women freed on Monday, is serving time in an Indiana prison for attempted murder after she slashed her baby's throat four times with a knife, court documents show.

Emily Castro, 25, was sentenced to 25 years and is at the Rockville, Indiana, Correctional Facility. She was found guilty in Allen County Superior Court of attempting to murder her 11-month-old daughter, according to a decision by the Court of Appeals of Indiana on November 5, 2008.

The current whereabouts of Emily Castro's child, who would be aged around seven now, could not immediately be determined.

Emily Castro slashed her daughter's throat four times with a knife on April 4, 2007 the day after the baby's father moved out of their Fort Wayne home, according to a court of appeals document.

Police found Emily Castro covered in mud, water and blood after responding to the 911 call from Castro's mother, Grimilda Figueroa, the court said. Figueroa, who died last year, was married to Ariel Castro, who was arrested on Monday in Cleveland on suspicion of abducting three women and holding them captive for around a decade. The three were freed on Monday along with a six-year-old girl thought to have been born in captivity.

[blankly]

It is not correct to assume that these crimes are rare based on available statistics. The available statistics are unreliable. Those of us who have been close to survivors of extreme abuse are aware of how little reaction there typically is from the police services (in any country) to complaints, how keen to no crime, or find no evidence, basically to get rid of it before it becomes a statistic. If the case comes to light, the investigation usually is limited, so as to avoid uncovering the network.

I have posted from time to time for some years, always hoping to add a bit to the story which is available to the wider public, those who don't already know more than anyone would want to. I would hope for more pressure for investigation, and I would hope that more awareness would enable people to be safer. I don't think that 'normal' is a measure you can apply to the lives of people who perpetrate these crimes. For most people, there is a thread of creativity or positive action running through their lives, and a connectedness to others on an emotional level. From what I have observed or learn from the observation of others, these elements are missing from the lives of perpetrators. They replace these with a destructiveness and an emotional disconnect - no idea if this is a conscious choice or that they are differently wired and incapable of being otherwise. The man who rescued these women was obviously struck by the fact that he had never suspected his neighbour. This too is common, because the perpetrators are aware that what they do is considered wrong and must be hidden. They effectively act the role of normal in order to confuse the enemy, that is the regular people. If you are close to one such person, you may, for a brief moment, become aware of being observed (like someone is picking up clues), you may notice that they respond to jokes a millisecond later than others, you may find that they mirror you, that their choices are more normal than normal for the area they live in, that their children do not rebel, play loud music, dye their hair odd colours, wear piercings, if you go in their house you may find a lack of stuff lying around - half read books, knitting, someone's sports kit. You may also find that they don't seem to lack money, not ostentatiously, but they don't seem to have those financial fuckups most family's do, that they have a job or other occupation which explains odd hours or absences, that they have a job or charity interest which puts them near vulnerable people. If you track their past through third party means, you may find yourself with questions. Yet all of these things, and the many others, can apply to regular people, for different reasons. More than one of these perps is remembered as coming out with something wacky (the CIA thing), yet it gets passed over. Often, they tell the truth in a way that conceals a lie. Two perpetrators I know of, well placed people, have made public pronouncements in response to questions about their working lives, to the effect that they are drawn to vulnerable people. Reading this without inside knowledge, people assume that they want to help those in distress, they know what they mean. I don't know how we can do this, but we all urgently need to find ways to listen to inner doubts we may have about individuals we meet, and figure out what to do about them. Does this make any sense?