The Wikileaks Question

[nathan28]

nathan28 knows.

No, they've got us on a need-to-know basis in the psy-op office here, which shows how inefficient we really are, because while I have no clue WTF is going on, the Conspiracy Theorists' Doomsayers' Union has determined a mighty deal about all of this so far:

--It's naive to believe that it's possible for hackers to intercept documents on a poorly-secured network, or to have received documents from a source inside the gov't, unless they release documents we like, like David Shayler
--Nothing in even the scant amount of mat'l that has been released is of any relevance at all. Never mind that the US Sec'y of State ordered diplomatic staff to engage in outright espionage; never mind that the US Dep't of State has a dim, paranoid outlook on most of the world; never mind that the Pakistani gov't cooperated willingly with the US on drone campaigns, etc., etc. No one can actually learn something about what happens behind-the-scenes of embassies from this at all
--The backlash against Assange has been all for show. People call into Brian Lehrer's show on WNYC demanding assassination of journalists and background sources all the time. An ex-intel ops dude and a CFR dude voicing condemnation is, of course, really just for show, as well; Mike Huckabee calling for assassination is, likewise, also for show. B-roc already authorized assassinations, right? Now magazine editors are demanding them, for show, of course, because we already know imperial citizens are a bloodthirsty lot
--It's impossible that any institution could act on the international stage without being part of a state apparatus, like CIA-Disney-Mossad, or be part of the state's own extra-state apparatus, like a heavily-connected criminal organization
--It's impossible that the Wikileaks people don't have an agenda all of their own, because it's impossible to imagine international actors outside the aegis of the state (notable exceptions, of course, being disgustingly emotive Freemasons, Jews, Catholics or Mormons)
--This is all obviously the work of Israel, because none of the released US State dep't cables portray the US's most-favored client-state in a negative light
--This is all obviously the work of Israel, because Sunni Arab state leaders could have nothing but fondness for an ambitious non-Arab Shia state like Iran, so it's clearly part of a Bomb-Iran psyop, and on edit, it's obviously the work of Israel, because we could hardly imagine that State dep't employees would tell their superiors what they wanted to hear, like that some leaders in Arab client-states like Wahabist Saudi Arabia might be fine with the US bombing another state
--This can't be a real leak, because there's no receipts for nanothermite in them


See, I didn't know this until I took a trip into Conspiraville, but thanks for the help, everyone, it'll make it easier to report back to headquarters.

[justdrew]

...

that seems a reasonable summation of some of the cul de sac's that have been or are being run through. good news is you get out of one by turning in the same direction you got into it in the first place.

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the major news at the moment seems to be that the whole shitload of cables have been laid, on the P2P networks, I haven't looked yet to confirm but one of the stories upthread says it's so. by tomorrow we may see some research from the whole deal.

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The most important thing to keep in mind looking at these texts is that they are the most public office memos. Anyone writing these things knows they're going to live on forever, possibly with their name attached. Nothing uncomfortable to the group think probably ever makes it in there. Publishing something too uncomfortable on there would probably be career ending. It'll be interesting to see if any cable is found to contain a truly contrarian analysis or overly truthful information. Anything really hot and dangerous info is going to have been kept to the more secret channels, or kept of official records entirely. Still there will be much of interest in them, but I doubt very much we're going to find anything like, "well, our guy succeeded in killing Bhutto"

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Something to look for right away will be anything that could corroborate that guy who says he was working in an embassy over there under orders giving visas to people who shouldn't have been getting them under normal circumstances. Anyone remember more detail on that? IIRC he came forward whistleblowing in the early days after nein juan won.

[seemslikeadream]

[justdrew]

sweet fusion center

[JackRiddler]

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nathan28, I salute you for that last post.

First, a detour:

Something to look for right away will be anything that could corroborate that guy who says he was working in an embassy over there under orders giving visas to people who shouldn't have been getting them under normal circumstances. Anyone remember more detail on that? IIRC he came forward whistleblowing in the early days after nein juan won.

Michael Springmann. Jeddah Consulate. I don't see how visa matters would make it into these cables, which we're seeing are really akin to the State Department's internal news wire. If Springmann's complaints about being made to issue visas for applications he considered dubious had made waves, it would have been handled in memos from one official to another, not thrown out into the general system (which was set up after 9/11, which is why there is so little prior to 2002 in this cache). Besides which, Jeddah's "visa express" was a CIA thing.

Now back to the topic:

Someone with access to hundreds of thousands of classified communications and with the ability to move them without detection must have exceptionally high security clearance. He or she must be on the far upper end of the ladder. Why would individuals like that risk their careers, possibly their lives, just to embarrass the US, presumably their own country?

Abulhawa seems to have missed very elementary details of this story. About 3 million people have had access to this database since it was set up in its present form after 9/11, about 600,000 currently. The astonishing part is that, assuming it was Manning who copied it, there's only been one person willing to leak these cables until now. That level of widespread successful obedience training dismays me, and no doubt cheers up the nationalist crowd.

At any rate, with access available to enough people to populate a medium-big city, you can be sure that the major foreign intel agencies long ago and quietly gobbled up whatever was on the system, so the classification really was only keeping secrets from the general public only. (It's possible that if the State Department itself had published a lot of this stuff straight to the Web it would have been barely noticed.)

The last date on the cables is February 2010, which is consistent with Manning being the source, and which renders ridiculous Abulhawa's question about how Manning could have accessed the data while in prison, since he hadn't been arrested yet. Again I wonder how much Abulhawa bothered to learned about the story before firing off in rage about the initial reports of the 1/1000th of the cables so far released as spun by NYT and Co.

Complaining that these news outlets got first crack is, however, legitimate. I assume this route was chosen (once again) as the way to get massive publicity. Look at Cryptome, he's releasing pretty sensitive stuff routinely and it doesn't get big play. Not doing it through NYT and Co. might have created an opening for them and the USG to ignore the story, or even to deny the cables are real.

Assuming it was Manning who got the data, and he took the opportunity to copy what was available at his clearance level and location, it is irrational to complain that he didn't magically get access to something else instead. The first two leaked sets, providing documentary confirmation of US war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq, are already invaluable. We'll see about this third one as it finally comes out and people have a chance to explore it. As I said somewhere above, of course I'd rather see publication of the uncensored CIA operations directorate files, or a list of their front groups and satellites and privatized operations (plus all files concerning the 9/11 wargames). It's possible Assange feels the same way.

The questions of how genuine and/or significant Wikileaks and this particular leak are may become secondary, because right now there's a chance this is going to turn into a much larger general battle for First Amendment rights and the free Internet (such as it is, my friends).

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[nathan28]

The most important thing to keep in mind looking at these texts is that they are the most public office memos. Anyone writing these things knows they're going to live on forever, possibly with their name attached. Nothing uncomfortable to the group think probably ever makes it in there. Publishing something too uncomfortable on there would probably be career ending. It'll be interesting to see if any cable is found to contain a truly contrarian analysis or overly truthful information.

Bank memos, with named authors and circulated internally and with relatively little security, contain contrary or at least surprising analysis all the time--of course, it's never surprising to the group think, but it often departs dramatically from what might be represented by the bank publicly. I can't imagine this is any different.

I really, really think Hilary Clinton is very unhappy that it's now public that she felt that petty credit card theft was part of the diplomatic corps' job. I think that the US State Dep't is looking a lot less like the high school quarterback and a lot more like the guy who just vomited all over himself as very shortly it will be completely public that US diplomats have not just extreme arrogance but also nothing but complete, explicit disregard for their foreign confreres. I predict lots of awkward, icy receptions.


American diplomacy in action. Why do they hate us?

[82_28]

Mr. 28, you make all other 28s proud. You have totally fucking summed it up.

So carrying over from the 28 in your name and the coincidences/synchs thread, why the fuck do you have a 28 too? You completely echo everything I think about this wikileaks bullshit too.

[82_28]

I just wanna say once more, brilliant, nathan. The receipts for the nanothermite are EXACTLY where it is! I know you mean this relatively tongue in cheek, but you have, a lot of us here have completely, clear mindedly debunked, I believe, everything about the "leaks". RI did it. Is there anybody who can compile the line of thought here and now leak that too? Jesus. I love this place.

[Elvis]

I greatly appreciate the discussion on these question. Myself, I'm presently leaning toward taking Assange at face value, as a legitimate whistleblower. Of course it's probably not as simple as "he's a spook/he's not a spook."

In any event, it would clearly be in the interests of the Pentagon, State Dept, etc, to sow suspicion around Assange. Just something to keep in mind.

[AlicetheKurious]

In any event, it would clearly be in the interests of the Pentagon, State Dept, etc, to sow suspicion around Assange. Just something to keep in mind.

Duh, because the WikiLeaks psyop would be so much more credible if the Pentagon, State Dept, etc, had all joined in a chorus of praise for Assange. We'll see if the "hunt for Assange" lasts as long as the "hunt for bin Laden", or if the amazing Man of Many Faces starts issuing video messages to the world or "leaks" long after he's been rumored to have died.

Above all, that the contents of the WikiLeaks have consistently echoed, magnified and "laundered" Israel's talking points is entirely irrelevant. That the Mossad has a long record of using Rita Katz-like misdirection techniques to get its propaganda out while appearing that it is being issued by other parties, is irrelevant. Get that? IRRELEVANT.

"I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud." -Julian Assange

But in fact he has not actually provided "evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud". At least, not yet. Hope springs eternal and the world waits with bated breath.

That even some reporters in mainstream newspapers fer chrissake have provided more valuable revelations than the bullshit gossip from WikiLeaks is TO BE IGNORED.

What more do you want? You don't trust the government to tell you the truth, you don't trust the corporate media, you wanted "leaks" and that's what you got, along with an exciting narrative about a mysterious renegade who travels from one European country to another, "finding refuge in airports", staying in hotels and giving tv interviews but somehow remaining elusive in the UK and in Sweden and now in Switzerland despite now being sought by Interpol. A guy from Australia who supposedly attended "37 schools" and "six universities" and traveled around constantly in his youth but in effect has no traceable past.

TIME Interview:

Do you feel that no one's security will be threatened by the publication of this material?

We feel confident. The material is seven months old; we reviewed it extensively. We held back 15,000 documents that we felt needed further review because the type of classifications they had. We've been publishing for four years a range of material that has caused the changing of constitutions and the removal of governments, but there's never been a case that we are aware of that has resulted in the personal injury of anyone.

Removal of governments?

The Kenyan government. The suspension of the Prime Minister of Tanzania.

Tanzania?

We published a corruption report. Link

The elephant huffed and puffed and strained for years only to give birth to...a mouse.

Nope, nothing to see here. Doubts? Anomalies? Inconsistencies? Get thee behind me, Satan!

[Ben D]

Perhaps it is not unreasonable to consider these guys as having a more realistic idea than amateurs as to who is behind the Wikileaks operation.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8909091183

Former Pakistani General: CIA, Mossad behind WikiLeaks Reports

TEHRAN (FNA)- A former Pakistani army commander said that the disclosure of classified documents by the whistleblower site of Wikileaks is a US plot to create rift among friendly and neighboring states.

"The US has a hand in this plot, and these reports (posted by the WikiLeaks website) are part of the US psychological warfare," former Chief of the Staff of the Pakistani Army General Mirza Aslam Beg told FNA in Islamabad on Tuesday.

He stated that the US could prevent the leak of information if it wanted to do so, and warned that the real plot and conspiracy pursued by these reports will be unraveled in future.

Aslam Beg further reiterated that the CIA and Israel's spy agency Mossad have launched efforts to weaken and destabilize Pakistan, and WikiLeaks reports are part of these efforts.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/senior-turkey-official-says-israel-behind-wikileaks-release-1.328373

Senior Turkey official says Israel behind WikiLeaks release

By Haaretz Service
Deputy leader of Turkish PM Erdogan's AKP party hints that Israel engineered the release of U.S. diplomatic cables as a plot to pressure Turkey, the daily Hurriyet reports.

A senior Turkish official blamed Israel for the WikiLeaks release, Turkish daily Hurriyet reported on Wednesday.

Addressing reporters, Huseyin Celik, deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's AKP party, hinted that Israel engineered the leak of hundreds of thousands of United States diplomatic cables as a plot to pressure the Turkish government.

Turkish officials suspect that "the main cause of these leaks was to weaken the Turkish government”, Hurriyet reported.

On Tuesday, Turkish President Abdullah Gul said that the leak appeared to be "a result of a systematic work with some purpose behind it" but Gul did not mention Israel.

[Elvis]

Duh, because the WikiLeaks psyop would be so much more credible if the Pentagon, State Dept, etc, had all joined in a chorus of praise for Assange. We'll see if the "hunt for Assange" lasts as long as the "hunt for bin Laden", or if the amazing Man of Many Faces starts issuing video messages to the world or "leaks" long after he's been rumored to have died.

Above all, that the contents of the WikiLeaks have consistently echoed, magnified and "laundered" Israel's talking points is entirely irrelevant. That the Mossad has a long record of using Rita Katz-like misdirection techniques to get its propaganda out while appearing that it is being issued by other parties, is irrelevant. Get that? IRRELEVANT.

I'm impressed as usual, Alice, but in this case not convinced (that Israel or Mossad is behind Wikileaks). I did laugh, reading your witty sarcasm. You could be right about this.

The question of Assange and the Anne Hamilton-Byrne "Family" thing has been bugging me---does that tie in to your scenario?

[hava1]

I think its very ...sluggish to blame a man who is running away from the USA in being a stooge who is playing a psyops game. He is likely to be protected for a while by the UK, but where else can he go ?

That might account for the "pro bibi slant", because Israel CAN protect him from the USA, if he gives something, while none of those who speak high and mighty here, can do that.

I think that's a test for the UK, which so far is playing dumb and slow, allowing him to escape.

My proposal for him is to take a "crash conversion" with the local Rabbi, make aliya under law of return, put on a yarmulke and join a settlement , there are so many runaways, fugitives and outright criminals here, he will mingle in the crowd,and soon be forgotten, before he appears again with one of those biblical names that converts adopt here...

Other places he can go to, is Namibia, which for a nice amount will give him refuge (one big fat fish had already done that and escaped the mighty long hand of the FBI).

I wouldnt recommend Canada....

[vanlose kid]

WikiLeaks: US wary of rising organized crime in Israel

By JPOST.COM STAFF
12/02/2010 13:52

Cable from Tel Aviv embassy discusses spread of mafia and measures to keep Israeli crime figures from gaining entrance to US.


US Ambassador to Israel James Cunningham expressed concern with the growing threat of organized crime in Israel in a cable from the US Embassy in Tel Aviv leaked this week on the WikiLeaks website entitled "Israel, a promised land fore organized crime?"

Cunningham questioned Israel's ability to deal with the growing problem.

"Despite their notoriety, organized crime figures have generally been viewed as a nuisance to be handled by local police. Law enforcement resources were directed to more existential security threats from terrorists and enemy states. In recent years, however, the rules of the game have changed."

The cable dealt with the possibility of Israeli organized crime spreading its influence to the US and spoke of Washington's efforts to become familiarized with the various mafia families and those in their employ, in order to prevent them getting visas to the US.

"Given the growing reach and lethal methods of Israeli organized crime, blocking the travel of known organized crime figures to the United States is a
matter of great concern," Cuningham stated. "Through collaboration with Israeli and US law enforcement authorities, Post [Cunningham] has developed an extensive database and placed lookouts for OC figures and their foot soldiers."

The US was also aware of Israeli organized crime's entrance into, and corrupting of government.

"It is not entirely clear to what extent OC elements have penetrated the Israeli establishment and corrupted public officials. The Israeli National Police insists that such instances are rare, despite the occasional revelation of crooked police officers in the press."

The cable discussed organized crime as a unifying factor within Israeli society.

"The profit motive serves as a great unifier among Israel's diverse demographic groups, " Cunningham noted. "Arab and Jewish Israeli criminals routinely cooperate and form alliances to expand control of lucrative drug, car theft and extortion rackets," he added.


http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=197671

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[vanlose kid]

WikiLeaks: Pakistan tipped off Israel on terror threats in India
Pakistan wants contacts with Israel to remain secret in order not to anger anti-government Muslim militants.

By Barak Ravid and Reuters

The chief of Pakistan's spy agency said he had contacted Israeli officials to head off potential attacks on Israeli targets in India, according to an October 2009 U.S. diplomatic cable published by WikiLeaks.

Lieutenant General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, told former U.S. Ambassador Anne Patterson that he wanted Washington to know he had been to Oman and Iran "to follow up on reports which he received in Washington about a terrorist attack on India."

"Pasha asked Ambassador to convey to Washington that he had followed up on threat information that an attack would be launched against India between September-November. He had been in direct touch with the Israelis on possible threats against Israeli targets in India," the Oct 7, 2009 cable reported.

A Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence spokesman had no immediate comment.

Israel's anti-terrorism headquarters publicized a severe travel warning for Israelis, especially those planning to enter India only one week later, on October 15, 2009. That travel warning specified that there was a very real concrete threat of an attack on Israelis in India.

The travel warning of October 15 was a ramping up of a previous travel warning issued on the eve of the Rosh Hashanah holiday in September 2009, which conveyed fears of an attack against Israelis throughout India.

The anti-terrorism headquarters announced at that time that the terror organization that had carried out the most lethal terror attack in Mumbai in November 2008 was planning a series of attacks throughout India, especially in locations with large concentrations of Western and Israeli tourists, and possibly in Chabad Houses, as well.

In November 2009, the anti-terrorism headquarters announced that it was retracting its travel warning.

Pakistan, a conservative Muslim country, has no official diplomatic relations with Israel. Such contacts would infuriate Muslim militants waging a campaign to topple the government.

In September 2005, however, then-Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom organized a public meeting with Pakistani then-Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmoud Kasuri, with the help of Turkey.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... bled=false

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