New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

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New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby Marionumber1 » Wed May 23, 2018 10:23 pm

Many people here are probably familiar with the abduction of Johnny Gosch, especially given how it's intertwined with the Franklin scandal. I wanted to share a recently-started podcast whose purpose is to reinvestigate and hopefully solve the case after all these years: https://player.fm/series/faded-out The host, Sarah DiMeo, is very sincere in her mission: she doesn't dismiss the pedophile ring claims out of hand, and tends to believe Noreen Gosch and Paul Bonacci, but renounces the more questionable characters such as Ted Gunderson and is devoted to gathering credible evidence. In other words, the podcast fits quite well with the spirit of Rigorous Intuition. I've spoken with her a couple times to share information on some more obscure details about the Gosch case.
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Re: New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed May 23, 2018 10:43 pm

thanks for posting


here's the first RI thread

New Leads In The Johnny Gosch Case
Postby seemslikeadream » Thu May 26, 2005 12:19 am

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4809


New photo up on The Johnny Gosch Foundation site
Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:30 pm
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=16429




Andy_Stephenson
Sat Feb-19-05 05:51 PM
Here is a new wrinkle on the Gannongate story...
https://www.democraticunderground.com/d ... id=3144209



New Earth
Mon Feb-21-05 07:03 PM
(Continued) "Here is a new wrinkle on the Gannongate story..."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/d ... id=3155132


TrustingDog
Tue Feb-22-05 08:59 PM
(Continued 3) Gannongate wrinkles
https://www.democraticunderground.com/d ... id=3161296


Catherine Vincent
Mon Feb-28-05 09:49 PM
Gannongate wrinkles - Part 4 (Continued)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/d ... uboard.php?



EFerrari
Thu Mar-03-05 06:01 PM
Gannongate Wrinkles Part 5
https://www.democraticunderground.com/d ... 6579&page=
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby elfismiles » Thu May 24, 2018 12:06 am

Marionumber1 » 24 May 2018 02:23 wrote:Many people here are probably familiar with the abduction of Johnny Gosch...


search.php?keywords=%22jeff+wells%22+%22johnny+gosch%22

Amazon reviewer's attack on Nick Bryant's book
... topic for discussion. However, if Jeff disagrees and locks or deletes ... Gannon was really missing child Johnny Gosch. Nick Bryant attempts to sanitize ... which were posted to your author Jeff Wells' forum. Kind of like Jeb Bush asking ...

... this: You have conspiro-satirist Jeff Wells whose satire is so subtle his own ... Cownie royaly and out Jeff Gannon as Johnny Gosch in the process. (I did not direct her ...

... and more ...

search.php?keywords=gosch+gannon&terms=all&author
goodbye farewell adieu au revoir ciao auf Wiedersehen adios sayonara buhbye tata laters
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Re: New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby Marionumber1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:37 pm

There was an interesting episode this Thursday: https://player.fm/series/faded-out/ep-1 ... -had-wrong Chris Birge, a former West Des Moines paperboy who lived in Johnny's neighborhood and knew him personally, contacted Sarah about 2 weeks ago to claim that the official story in Johnny's kidnapping was incorrect. Every account of the abduction says:

  • Johnny went to get his papers at the corner of 42nd Street and Ashworth Road, where a man in a blue car approached him asking for directions
  • The man spooked Johnny and he decided to leave, heading down 42nd Street to start his deliveries at the corner of 42nd Street and Marcourt Lane
  • As the man in the blue car drove off, he flicked his dome lights and a tall man came out on 42nd Street, following behind Johnny to 42nd/Marcourt
  • Johnny's wagon was found abandoned near 42nd/Marcourt as a car ran the stop sign at that intersection and turned left (north)

Chris says that Johnny's paper drop was actually at 42nd/Marcourt, not 42nd/Ashworth. He insists that he saw Johnny walking down Marcourt Lane that morning. Beyond that, he says that Johnny always got his papers at 42nd/Marcourt; his route that morning wasn't a one-time event.

I am personally skeptical of this, since multiple witnesses went on record way back in 1982 and 83 stating that Johnny got his papers at 42nd/Ashworth. Chris initially just accused two of the witnesses (Mike Seskis and John Rossi) of lying, but he's since backed down from that assertion, and seems to support the idea of mistaken identity. But even if they mistook someone else for Johnny that morning, such a mistake would only occur if Johnny usually did go to 42nd/Ashworth. And Johnny's father, who accompanied him on his paper route every Sunday morning except the one on which he was abducted, also never challenged the location of the route.

Still, it's nice that Sarah's podcast has been able to draw in all these witnesses who've never spoken on record before, and hopefully there will be more who provide a fuller picture of what happened that morning. I doubt Chris' account (at least in its entirety) but it could end up being corroborated.
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Re: New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby Marionumber1 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:57 pm

I do ultimately have to rescind my endorsement of this podcast. While Faded Out initially seemed promising, the direction it's gone in throughout the past few months has been so off-base that I can't continue to support it. Noreen Gosch and Paul Bonacci are being treated as unstable liars, while two prime suspects in the abduction (Johnny's dad and Sam Soda) have been portrayed as credible witnesses who are permitted to rewrite the truth of the case without any challenge from Sarah. I tried many times to raise my concerns about Chris Birge (see above) and Johnny's father, and was brushed aside. There is one aspect of Faded Out, its exploration of local pedophilia in Des Moines, that has value, but by and large it's shaping up to be a limited hangout at best.
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Re: New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby Marionumber1 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:12 pm

Here is an examination of the evidence that Johnny's dad, Leonard John Gosch, has not only lied about numerous facts of the case but should be considered a suspect in his son's abduction: http://cavdef.org/w/index.php?title=Johnny_Gosch_abduction#Father.27s_involvement
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Re: New podcast on the Johnny Gosch case

Postby Marionumber1 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:15 pm

One interesting thing about the Faded Out podcast is that, while it took a very anti-Noreen Gosch and anti-Franklin scandal position, it inadvertently collected a lot of evidence which backs up that version of events. There are already the serious discrepancies in the stories of Leonard John Gosch (Johnny Gosch's father) and Sam Soda (a private investigator inserting himself into the case who turned out to be in on the abduction), both of which would have never been revealed if Sarah DiMeo didn't interview them on record. But what I find most interesting is that Chris Birge, the witness brought in to discredit the widely accepted account of what happened on the morning of Johnny's abduction, actually ended up corroborating Noreen's account of Johnny's body being transferred into a van which hadn't been verified before. See my Reddit post:

When Franklin victim Paul Bonacci came forward with an account of Johnny's abduction, he said that Johnny's body was transferred into a van. This was taken by Noreen Gosch as crucial validation of Bonacci's story, since, according to her, her private investigators had interviewed a witness who made such a sighting years before Bonacci came forward. You can hear her talk about this in various interviews, such as her early 2000s interview with Ted Gunderson. Many people, for whatever reason, have dismissed Noreen's account about the van or suggested that her private investigators were making up nonexistent leads to keep getting paid. But what's very interesting is that a key witness interviewed on the highly-dubious Faded Out podcast appears to have inadvertently confirmed the sighting.

Chris Birge was interviewed by the host Sarah DiMeo in late June 2018. He was a former paperboy, just 10 years old when Johnny was abducted, and made claims about Johnny's movements that morning which contradicted all prior witness accounts. Whereas neighbor Lawrence Hedlin, fellow paperboy Mike Seskis, and father of a fellow paperboy John Rossi all made statements to police back in 1982 indicating that Johnny picked up his papers at the intersection of 42nd Street and Ashworth Road, Chris insisted that Johnny actually got his papers one block north at the intersection of 42nd and Marcourt Lane. Taking Chris's account as factual, the sighting of a strange Latino man in a blue car approaching Johnny would be irrelevant to the case because the boy would be someone else who got mistaken for Johnny.

The likelihood of all of these witnesses who went on record with police immediately after the abduction being wrong and this never-before-aired account being right is pretty low, so Chris doesn't have a whole lot of credibility. Amusingly, in Faded Out's last addendum to Season 1, you can hear how Sarah finally began questioning Chris's story after hearing that one of her other witnesses Yellow Bag spoke to John Rossi and found Rossi credible; Chris became very incensed and he had a falling out with Sarah. Of course, the reason for Chris not to be telling the truth is unclear: he could be lying or just mistaken. However, there's something very interesting about his account which makes him a bit suspicious.

Noreen Gosch, despite talking about the van sighting several times, has never stated where it was seen. But in 2016 she appeared on the FAWcast and gave enough geographical clues to deduce where it is. She has, in many of her interviews about Johnny's abduction, referred to how after grabbing Johnny on Marcourt Lane, the blue car ran the stop sign and turned left onto 42nd Street, which was north towards the interstate. Listen to the FAWcast starting at 20:00 where Noreen discusses the neighborhood witness who saw a van parked on the street with its motor running, a blue car drive up, its passengers transfer a large object to the van, and then the van and car both drive off. She says that the van turned right and headed "back north again towards the interstate". It is reasonable to infer from that description of the van's movements that it turned right onto 42nd Street and continued north in that direction. So from which street did it turn onto 42nd Street?

Here is a map of the area where Johnny was taken. The nearest interstate to the north, and the only one within West Des Moines, is I-235. Between Marcourt and I-235, there are only two roads connected to 42nd from which you could turn right onto 42nd and head north: Woodland Avenue and Lexington Plaza. It can be verified through street view that Lexington Plaza is not a real street, but rather a private road that's part of the nearby apartment complexes. That leaves Woodland Avenue as almost certainly being the road where the van was sighted according to Noreen.

Now, according to Chris Birge in his Faded Out interview, his deliveries were to the apartments near Woodland Avenue and his paper pickup spot was in fact at the intersection of 42nd and Woodland, exactly where the van would have made its getaway. So he would have been in a prime position to witness the van. Did he see it?

On July 19, 2018, Chris made a bizarre comment in the Faded Out group:

Kendra Cassidy I heard about the van from the doc. I was there that morning on the corner of 42 and woodland ave when and where the van was supposed to be. I did not see it. What are the names of the witnesses who saw the van? Can you provide names or just facts you assume you know? Where did you get your info. Your info seems wrong. Thank you for ASSUMING. That really helps everybody


Chris Birge claims he did not see the van that morning. But his statement raises a very important question: how exactly does Chris know where the van "was supposed to be"? The documentary Who Took Johnny, where he claims to have heard about the van, made no mention of the van; and literally no treatment of the Gosch case has ever mentioned the specific location of the van as being at 42nd and Woodland. Chris attributes his knowledge to a source that did not even mention the van, there is no known source out there which ever gave the van's location, and yet he got it exactly right. Furthermore, that location just happens to be where he was delivering his papers on the morning of the abduction.

While this doesn't definitively prove anything, I find Chris's unexplained knowledge about the van's location to be highly suspect. It seems that he either knows it from his own personal experience -- i.e. he saw it that morning -- or he received inside knowledge about Noreen's private investigation from somebody (who?). The former is interesting because Noreen claims that P.J. Smith, another witness to the events that morning, saw a lot more than was initially claimed in news accounts and was forced by the police chief to suppress his statement. If Chris saw something inconvenient, like multiple vehicles coordinating the transfer of some large object within minutes of Johnny's abduction, he may have received similar treatment to P.J. Smith. And perhaps that police intimidation to an impressionable 10-year-old explains the dubious story he now tells on the podcast.
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