1962 Gulf of Tonkin LIMPET op = 1964 'Incredible Mr. Limpet'

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Postby streeb » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:48 pm

Wow, Dreams End, thanks for the great post on Oliver Stone. That's a riddle wrapped in an enigma (har) that I've been pondering for some time myself. I was also introduced to US policy in Central America, in a way that actually stuck, through "Salvador", and I tend to believe "JFK" did more good than harm. But the McMartin thing... Alex Constantine outs the "Indictment" screenwriter Abby Mann in Psychic Dictatorship as an 'asset', and Mark Lane implies - almost - as much in Plausible Denial (Lane worked with Mann on his 1978 TV movie about MLK, in which, according to the Museum of Broadcast Communications website, Mann suggests a conspiracy involving the Memphis Police and Fire Department - but presumably no Intelligence people or the FBI. I haven't seen "King", so I can't comment.)

If you look at the description of Mann on the MBC website, he's portrayed as a crusader:

Although some critics have argued that Mann has, on occasion, selectively marshaled facts and taken "polemical" positions in his portrayal of his subjects, almost all have expressed admiration for his exhaustive investigative research, and his rich dramatic portrayal of character. Most importantly, few have questioned the factual basis for his arguments


Smokescreen?

There's lots there to chew on: http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/M/htmlM/mannabby/mannabby.htm
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Postby slimmouse » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:56 pm

streeb wrote:Wow, Dreams End, thanks for the great post on Oliver Stone. That's a riddle wrapped in an enigma (har) that I've been pondering for some time myself. I was also introduced to US policy in Central America, in a way that actually stuck, through "Salvador", and I tend to believe "JFK" did more good than harm. But the McMartin thing... Alex Constantine outs the "Indictment" screenwriter Abby Mann in Psychic Dictatorship as an 'asset', and Mark Lane implies - almost - as much in Plausible Denial (Lane worked with Mann on his 1978 TV movie about MLK, in which, according to the Museum of Broadcast Communications website, Mann suggests a conspiracy involving the Memphis Police and Fire Department - but presumably no Intelligence people or the FBI. I haven't seen "King", so I can't comment.)

If you look at the description of Mann on the MBC website, he's portrayed as a crusader:

Although some critics have argued that Mann has, on occasion, selectively marshaled facts and taken "polemical" positions in his portrayal of his subjects, almost all have expressed admiration for his exhaustive investigative research, and his rich dramatic portrayal of character. Most importantly, few have questioned the factual basis for his arguments


Smokescreen?

There's lots there to chew on: http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/M/htmlM/mannabby/mannabby.htm


At the end of the day, its really rather plain and simple.

If JFK had been a bad guy, he wouldnt have been at Dealy Plaza, and he wouldnt have been deaded.

Just like his Brother, and Martin Luther King, and Yitzhak Rabin, and John Lennon, and Bob Marley, and Pope JP1, and Princess Di , and Paul Wellstone, and John O Neil and so on and so on and so forth.

It really isnt quite so complicated, is it ?

Perhaps it is, I mean after all, Daschle and Leahy only got threatened with Anthrax :?
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somewhere, over the Event Horizon...

Postby robert d reed » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:50 pm

I love the use of the name of a mystery ship caught in the pull of the (commie) 'Black Hole,'Cygnus.' As in....Saigon/US. Cute, ay? The phonetics of different reading levels are built in to the space adventure.


Truly, I ask...is there no end to it?
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Saigon-US, Down The Black Hole...O', the Ho Mini-tee...

Postby robert d reed » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:58 pm

Once down the Black Hole, phonemes themselves are stretched and wisted beyond recognizability...

là où le noeud du biscuit, est l'apostrophe
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Re: U2, Air America, Limpet Day of Dolphin. Memetic engineer

Postby jingofever » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:27 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:(Again, the 'd' and 't' are interchangeable when seeing the word, like 'Oswalt' and 'Oswald.')


Interchangeable? I don't think so, unless you have some evidence. Wouldn't this suggest you cannot switch around the 'd' and 't'?

According to a researcher (sic) at Cambridge University, it doesn't matter in what order the letters in a word are, the only important thing is that the first and last letter be at the right place. The rest can be a total mess and you can still read it without problem. This is because the human mind does not read every letter by itself but the word as a whole.
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imagine the little rascals, viewing the swan...

Postby robert d reed » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:34 pm

Signus, swimming through in a limpet poo'...
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"Vulcan, limpet, scuba, dolphin,.....MINE."

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:55 pm

Dreams End wrote:I'm sure there were all kinds of psyops to divert attention from our spin events in Vietnam. But even without "limpets" we still have words like "mines"


Operation Vulcan word number five to be examined per DE's good suggesion: MINE.

Why, there IS a movie from the time of Operation Vulcan although production didn't get it out to audiences until 1968 after the Tet Offensive and while the Pentagon was sitting on the story of the March 1968 My Lai Massacre of a few hundred villagers at the hands of Lt. Calley, a story that didn't break until the next year.

Image

Instead, America got to know a much happier pile of kids.

Image

The story was owned by Desilu Productions which failed at feature films...
...and most subsequent attempts to bring projects to the big screen were aborted, until Yours, Mine, and Ours (with Ball and Henry Fonda) in 1968. This film was a critical and financial success.


1968 is a heckuva time to make a military romance movie for family viewing.
Bet Desilu got the same boost from the Pentagon's reps that Disney did during WWII.


Remember how Hiroshima was turned into a romance movie about the pilot?
That's what 'Yours, Mine, Ours,' is, too, a romance about military, national, and family values.
You just couldn't get a warmer feeling using the word 'MINE.'


I remember seeing it as a kid. Granma thought "oh, Lucy. Safe. Probably a cute dog, too."

Look at the timing, plot, and keywords of the 1968 movie, 'Yours, Mine, Ours'
with Henry Fonda and Lucille Ball. Very non-threatening gender reps.

1968 was a presidential election year in a country already divided over the Vietnam War and this movie looks like a model for pulling together like one big family, a constant nationalist unit cohesion theme from government.

Image

(going to use some wiki-summary info here so...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yours,_Mine_and_Ours_(1968_film)

Project start time is a little vague, either 1959 or after 1961.
And this supports the liklihood that it was conceived during Operation Vulcan under the aegis of Desilu Productions and explains the differing versions of start up in this clip-
That Lucille Ball would portray Helen Beardsley was never in doubt. But a long line of distinguished actors came under consideration, at one time or another, for the role of Frank Beardsley. They included Desi Arnaz, James Stewart, Fred MacMurray, Jackie Gleason, Art Carney, and John Wayne. Henry Fonda would finally accept, and indeed ask for, the role in a telephone conversation with Robert F. Blumofe in 1967. Miss Ball, who had worked with Fonda before in the 1942 release The Big Street, readily agreed to the casting.[2]

One account says that Miss Ball recalled in 1961 that Desilu Productions first bought the rights to the Beardsley-North story in 1959, even before Helen Beardsley published her biography. This is highly unlikely, however, as Frank and Helen Beardsley married on September 6, 1961.

More likely is the story that Bob Carroll and his wife brought the story of the Beardsley family to Lucy's attention after reading it in a local newspaper.[3] Mr. Carroll's memory must have been faulty, because he is said to recall his wife mentioning the story in 1960--again, a full year before the Beardsleys were married and probably when Dick North was still alive.

In any event, Desilu Productions did secure the rights early on, and Mr. Carroll and Madelyn Pugh began at once to write a script.

Production suffered multiple interruptions for a variety of reasons. It began in December of 1962 after Lucy's abortive attempt at a career on the Broadway stage.


>SO got the right word in the title, "Mine"

>Got the right start up time for the project, 1959-1962..

>Military theme. Navy military couple and son joins Marines at the end.
Henry Fonda's character, Frank Beardsley, is a Navy warrant officer, recently detached from the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise and assigned as project officer for the Fresnel lens glide-slope indicator, or "meatball," that would eventually become standard equipment on all aircraft carriers. Lucille Ball's character, Helen North, is a nurse assigned to the dispensary on the same Naval base where Frank is assigned.
.....
The film ends with Mike Beardsley, the eldest, going off to Camp Pendleton to begin his stint in the United States Marine Corps.


>Henry Fonda's role worked on the USS Enterprise - Same capitalist name used in Star Trek. 'Star Trek' with it's capitalist projection the starship Enterprise was also a Desilu production.

>Just Say No sobriety message with Court mentioned.
Lucy's drink spiked by date's sons which keeps the kooky dame image going.
Frank and Helen continue to date regularly, and then Frank invites Helen to have dinner in his home. This turns nearly disastrous when Mike, Rusty, and Greg (Tim Matheson, Gil Rogers, and Gary Goetzman), Frank's three sons, each add excessive amounts of a different alcoholic beverage to Helen's drink.As a result Helen behaves in a wild and embarrassing manner, which Frank cannot explain, until he catches his sons laughing behind their upraised hands. "The court of inquiry is now in session!" he declares, and eventually forces the three to apologize. After this, he announces his intention to marry, adding, "And nobody put anything into my drink."


>Heavy gender imaging, kooky lady, staid gentleman. Troubled daughter.

>Recruiting messages about leaving home, kooky girls
Frank brings his distraught daughter in for treatment and Helen informs him that she is simply growing up in a too-crowded house.


>Social cohesion messages about "pulling together."
The children fight the union even harder at first, and regard each other and the respective new step-parents with suspicion. Eventually, however, the eighteen children bond and make one large blended family, made a little larger when Helen discovers she is pregnant and gives birth to a boy.


>Urgings to get married when having children. Don't be a free love hippy.
....Helen discovers she is pregnant and gives birth to a boy.

Further tension develops between young Philip North and his teacher at the parochial school that he attends, because his teacher insists that he use his "legal" name (which remains North even though his mother married a man named Beardsley). This prompts Frank and Helen to discuss cross-adopting one another's children.


...THEN that big love fest at the end where the eldest boy becomes...a Marine!
The film ends with Mike Beardsley, the eldest, going off to Camp Pendleton to begin his stint in the United States Marine Corps.


The doctor on the DRAFT BOARD is family physician Tom Bosley, what a nice guy!
Guess Fred Rogers wasn't available but Bosley is perfect and will be cast as the pater familias in 'Happy Days' when restoring the image of Benign Authority was in full Reaganomic swing.

Tom Bosley as a family doctor who makes a house call on the Beardsleys in their "neutral" home. We later see this same doctor as the consulting physician for the California Draft Board when Mike Beardsley reports for a required physical exam.


I've posted the documents connecting Paramount to CIA and CBS to CIA.
Like anything else that worked they probably got the already cooperative Desilu, too, another Cuban exile asset.
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dupe

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:14 am

...
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Postby orz » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:26 am

If your theory was at all reasonable you'd rule out any single word of 5 letters or less, for obvious reasons.
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DE actually wrote this.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:27 am

Dreams End actually wrote this in this thread-
It's simply your keyword hijacking idea. You have not one shred of evidence that at any time some film was named something...I'm not talking about the content, since you never do...but simply named something specifically to draw attention away from one single word associated with some government malfeasance.


This very thread is about a film's title being a keyword hijacking, remember? LIMPET.
sorry to shout. seemed warranted.

And yes, I discuss content, too. "never" -sheesh.

I realize you aren't online as I write but see my follow up on your suggestion to examine the word "mine" in context of Operation Vulcan. 'Yours, Mine, Ours.'

And I went into the content of the funny assassin movie 'Grosse Point Blank' just the last day or so.
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Buddwing - Bolschwing

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:11 am

I've written about these Nazi decoys already-
little Eichmanns/ hired Eichmann's
Paperclip Project/Project Paperclip

Here's another one and it was a challenge for the psy-ops boys but they managed to hit it into the outfield by turning 'Bolschwhing' into 'Buddwing.'

All they saved was the 'wing' but they got the 'b' to work and a mirror plot to serve the purpose.

This movie title-hijack cover-up - 'Mister Buddwing' came out in 1966
because one name that the CIA didn't want to come out and stay on lips was 'Otto von Bolschwing.'

http://alexconstantine.blogspot.com/2007/06/otto-von-bolschwing-file.html
The CIA Names File on Adolf Eichmann

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 150
Edited by Tamara Feinstein
Intern Assistance: Sara Coburn
(March 24, 2005)

... Bolschwing “had been Eichmann's tutor on Zionism and the politics of Zionism in the mid-1930s and then his ally in persecuting the Jews of Austria.”( Note 2) After the war, Bolschwing served as an asset first for the Gehlen organization, and was then recruited directly by the CIA for work in Austria . Despite his less than stellar achievements as an asset, the CIA rewarded him for his service by helping him obtain entry and citizenship in the United States. In his essay from the IWG-sponsored anthology U.S. Intelligence and the Nazis, University of Virginia Professor and IWG historian Timothy Naftali details Bolschwing's panic after discovering that Eichmann had been captured by the Israelis. Naftali notes that he went so far as to contact one of his former CIA handlers:


So the risk of exposing the many CIA-Nazi assets had grown from 1960-1965.

CIA had much to hide and had been surprised by the Mossad snatch of Eichmann from Argentina in 1960 the very next day after Gary Powers' U2 came down in the USSR. Mossad must've figured it would be a good time while CIA had their hands full.

The Auschwitz trials in Germany from 1963-1965 had the CIA holding their breath.

The Operation Mockingbird press hardly mentioned the Auschwitz trials.
Richard Condon put out a decoy Nazi novel in 1964 called 'An Infinity of Mirrors.'
Kubrick gave us the funny Nazi in 'Dr. Strangelove' after meeting with nuclear war planner Herman Kahn.

Filming for 'Mr. Buddwing' began in March, 1964.
It was about a man who finds himself in New York with amnesia.
(Bet he forgot he was a fugitive Nazi working for the CIA.)

http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article.jsp?cid=74626
Principal photography began in New York in March of 1964, but was made difficult due to an apparent bi-coastal feud within the labor union representing some of the crew. An attorney for MGM wrote to the New York local, reporting that Assistant Director Erich Von Stroheim, Jr. (son of the famed silent film director and actor) was punched by a crew member. That same memo called director Delbert Mann "the idol of our crews.. because of his (knowledge) of the craft and...lack of affectation or pompousness."


And then in 1965, disaster, the Soviets tried in absentia a Nazi war criminal hiding out in upstate New York.

CBS put 'Hogan's Heroes' with funny Nazis on primetime Thanksgiving week of 1965 and had the cast appear on Bob Hope's Christmas special. The audience applauded nostalgically for the defenders against Nazi-ism on the stage before them.

Image

The jazzy soundtrack for the phonetic decoy movie title 'Mr. Buddwing' was recorded in November, 1965 by Kenyon Hopkins-

http://www.jazzdisco.org/verve/1965-dis/c/
Kenyon Hopkins And His Orchestra
Kenyon Hopkins (arr, cond) unidentified orchestra
NYC, November 29, 1965
65VK554 Main Title Verve V/V6 8638
65VK555 Headache Montage -
65VK556 The Bridge -
65VK557 Memory Montage -
65VK558 The Mirror -
65VK559 Lunch Room -
* Kenyon Hopkins - Mr. Buddwing (Soundtrack) (Verve V/V6 8638)

Kenyon Hopkins And His Orchestra
same personnel
NYC, November 30, 1965
65VK560 Fiddle's Walk Verve V/V6 8638
65VK561 12/8 Theme -
65VK562 Hard Latin -
65VK563 West Side Radio -
65VK564 R And B 12 (Blues) -
65VK565 Mister Bee -
* Kenyon Hopkins - Mr. Buddwing (Soundtrack) (Verve V/V6 8638)


And we got the movie about a man with amnesia in NY called 'Mr. Buddwing' in 1966.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059453/plotsummary

DE, I have to admit that Oliver Stone requires a forum all his own to explore. He seems like a useful personality to exploit for where he is willing to go. Dupe or perp? Hmm.

After finding this Bolschwing/Buddwing hijacking, I'm wondering about a script Oliver Stone helped write in 1982 for...Conein the Barbarian.

"Lucien, you gotta lotta 'splainin' to do."
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:37 am

How does buddwing = bolchwing?

Ok t and d may be interchangeable, u and d interchangable for o l c and h?

Or what is it just the b and the wing at the end?
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Phonetics.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:59 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:How does buddwing = bolschwing?


It's definitely a sonic decoy. Say it. With an American accent.

That it only is so close to the original is probably due to how different from normal spoken American 'Bolschwing' is.

But it is pretty close and the context matches.
These psy-ops boys have to work with what they've been told to.
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Conein - Conan

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:11 am

Lucien Conein helped assassinate JFK.

Conan the Barbarian is the Governor of California and holds a Kennedy hostage.

Image


Image

Image
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:40 am

Lucien Conein helped assassinate JFK.


And leonard Cohen wrote "Everybody Knows".

Hows that for reverse keyword hijacking.
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