7/14 -Bohemian Grove pilgrimage starts

Moderators: DrVolin, 82_28, Elvis, Jeff

Re: Joe

Postby NewKid » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:29 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>However, it is not a place of power. It's a place where the powerful relax, enjoy each other's company, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>and get to know some of the artists, entertainers, and professors who are included to give the occasion a thin veneer of cultural and intellectual pretension</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. Despite the suspicions of many on the Right, and a few on the Left, it is not a secret meeting place to plot, plan, or discuss -- everyone there is too drunk for that kind of thing anyhow. The most important decisions typically happen just where we might expect: in the boardrooms of corporations and foundations, at the White House, and in the backrooms of Congress. Yes, as I show later, some wanna-be and has-been Republican politicians sometimes visit the Bohemian Grove, including future and former presidents of the United States, but they are there to demonstrate what wonderful human beings they are, to cultivate potential financial backers, or to brag about their past exploits.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Moreover, there is a literature in social psychology, called small-group research, or small-group dynamics, which shows that people who meet in relaxed settings, and see their group as exclusive, become even tighter with each other than people in ordinary groups.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Even better, people in exclusive groups are more likely to listen to each other and come to a compromise if they have the task of figuring out what to do about some policy issue.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html#cremation" target="top">sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html#cremation</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br>I actually pretty much agree with this part of the Domhoff piece. I think they have people like Clooney and Stewart out there because it makes them feel cool. And maybe so Stewart and Clooney actually get to know and like some of these guys too. Or maybe Stewart's going so he can make fun of them when he comes back. <br><br>Sure Clooney and Stewart hate Bush, but so does probably a third to a half of the Grove members. And I wouldn't really call Stewart and Clooney critics of the powers that be in any sort of broad systemic sense, so I'm not really sure what it says that they go out there. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=newkid@rigorousintuition>NewKid</A> at: 7/16/06 9:37 pm<br></i>
NewKid
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:37 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Um, now Joe, are you listening to yourself? Do you really think that makes any sense, if that's the argument?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Look as far as Bohemian Grove goes, its not that high on my list of things to think about.<br><br>I live in another country and only heard about it via the web or maybe Nexus mag. But some of those old photo's look disturbingly familiar, esp the one with that Buddha.<br><br>And although its only a photo, the vibe I get from that so called Owl is weird and dodgy, it reminds me of the story the Call of Cuthulu. But for some reason i have always been a nit sus on that Alex Jones guy. Just from the odd things I have read at his websites over the years. Haven't seen his second film tho, and the first one was a while ago. Its always been my feeling that Alex Jones didn't sneak in tho, thats just my feeling, perhaps intuitive, but not rigourous.<br><br>That said it could be legit. Nothing sus. That burning of care ritual, if that is all it is, is nothing to worry about. My old girl recently said she'd been to some seminar on dealing with trauma, and some speaker had said that although writing down issues as a form of therapy was largely ineffective, writing things down, especially stories that are about pain and anger inside yourself, then burning them, actually had a theraputic value. Hearsay from my mum I know. But her hearsay is pretty good actually.<br><br>But there is something about that "Owl" that is just plain nasty. Like its wings are actually elongated faces for a start. <p></p><i></i>
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 9351
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby LilyPatToo » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:40 pm

Thank you Joe, Arcadia, banned, et all. The thought of Pah, with his/her lip characteristically curled, drinking his/her steak through a straw was a winner. S/he went straight for the sexual nastiness, didn't they? Almost as if they knew my history....huh? Interesting. I had a person who might just be them under another name following me from board to board a while back, who was probably a gen-u-ine MC disinformationist type....S/he also went after another Monarch survivor, but pretty much left everyone else alone. <br><br>Whatever. I simply have no use for drive-by posters. Either you respect the intelligence of your fellow posters and present your evidence or you refrain from posting innuendo. Teasing is Not Nice. And neither is sneering. And I've yet to meet a group where oh-so-intellectual posturing is OK, let alone as cool as Pah seems to find it.<br><br>Those photos are amazing, BTW. Thank you for posting them! I'm very intrested in Bohemian Grove, due to some of the men that Lily happens to remember attending each year, including a world-reknowned scientist around whom I had a bunch of missing time, years back.<br><br>LilyPat<br><br>PS Jon STEWART?!!! Say it ain't so....! <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby NewKid » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:46 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yes, in Jones' second flick he talks about Sheerer and such...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Now I do get the sense from watching Shearer that he's trying to sell the Grove as an Animal House/Old School place and nothing more. Especially given his movie. <br><br>So unless you have the leadership committee or whoever runs the place's permission, I would guess most of the attendees out there pretty much know that it's uncool to talk about what happens once you leave, so most of them don't. Even if they don't see anything weird out there, it's just something they probably wouldn't do because it violates an unwritten rule. <br><br>And keep in mind that while we hear about Bush, Baker, Schultz, etc., the Grove is not just a Republican hangout. I'm sure they have a bunch of liberal types go out there all time, although I suspect most of them are probably Hollywood or gatekeeping types. If Michel Chossudovsky types start showing up out there, then it will get interesting. <p></p><i></i>
NewKid
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:50 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>A second reason for stressing the importance of retreats and clubs like the Bohemian Grove is a body of research within social psychology that deals with group cohesion. "Group dynamics" suggests the following about cohesiveness:<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Yeah all well and good.<br><br>But thats the same guy who wrote this<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Finally, the conspiratorial view assumes that illegal plans to change the government or assassinate people can be kept secret for long periods of time, but all evidence shows that secret groups or plans in the United States are uncovered by civil liberties groups, infiltrated by reporters or government officials, and written about in the press.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>So he does have a cred problem with me.<br><br>I am about to go checking his stuff on the Senoi. Cos he sounds like he is doing what he claimed the packbacker was doing. <p></p><i></i>
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 9351
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby Dreams End » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:53 pm

A brief walk down memory lane. Remember the pah who said this:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>God is all we will ever need. Just worry about Him. The rest is history.<br>P.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4512.topic&index=4">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...ic&index=4</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>What kinda whacked out god do you worship, anyway? Oh...also in that post:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I still think this site is a front for the CIA by the way...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
Dreams End
 

Re: Joe

Postby NewKid » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:58 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But for some reason i have always been a nit sus on that Alex Jones guy. Just from the odd things I have read at his websites over the years. Haven't seen his second film tho, and the first one was a while ago. Its always been my feeling that Alex Jones didn't sneak in tho, thats just my feeling, perhaps intuitive, but not rigourous.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Alex Jones puts out a lot of crap, no doubt, and I'm sure he's being manipulated or people are attempting to manipulate him all the time. But I doubt very seriously he's a witting disinfo agent working for Khashogi or whoever. That's a hell of an act he has, if he is. Far more realistic, I think, is that Alex's sources keep him riled up with some red herrings that send him enthusiastically marching off into the wrong direction. <p></p><i></i>
NewKid
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:02 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>PS Jon STEWART?!!! Say it ain't so....!<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Sorry..<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2005/07/fervor-wanes-at-bohemian-club.html">fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2...-club.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The absence of any inside news reportage creates a vacuum filled with rumors, some fanciful, such as TV's Daily Show host Jon Stewart seen talking with Tucker Carlson, the politically conservative cable TV pundit who Stewart recently called "a dick" in a bow tie on Carlson's Crossfire show. That scenario was remote but not outside the realm of possibility.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Take comfort in the fact that with no photo, the report is unverifiable. In Bizzarro World, however, the contemptuous PTB would prolly take a perverse sort of delight in sipping tea with those paid to publicly flog them. Hell, maybe the flogging takes on a more literal aspect behind the redwoods..I'll bet Jon looks hot in a Village People get-up..<br><br>Picture the ad:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"What happens at Bohemian Grove <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>STAYS</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> at Bohemian Grove.."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p>____________________<br>Oderint, dum metuant</p><i></i>
User avatar
Et in Arcadia ego
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: The Void
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby NewKid » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:07 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>So he does have a cred problem with me.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Domhoff does with me too, Joe. He's a classic Berlet, right at the boundary, gatekeeper. Keeps you talking about structural issues of power and assorted gibberish that will never be a threat to anybody, all the while ignoring all of the obviously criminal conspiracies right in front of everybody's face, exposure of which really would do something. <br><br>So I don't really believe his stuff by itself, but I do think he has some valid points about the Grove. What he totally fails to address in my view, is why do they do that particular ritual at all? Where did that come from? That's not stuff you do at summer camp or even in regular fraternities. It's just not stuff that any normal person, even rich person, would come up with all on their own, much less convince everyone else there that it was some neat thing to go do. <p></p><i></i>
NewKid
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby bvonahsen » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:14 am

Do I smell troll? hmmm, seems to be fading...<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><br>Moreover, there is a literature in social psychology, called small-group research, or small-group dynamics, which shows that people who meet in relaxed settings, and see their group as exclusive, become even tighter with each other than people in ordinary groups. Even better, people in exclusive groups are more likely to listen to each other and come to a compromise if they have the task of figuring out what to do about some policy issue.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>The feminist movement pushed hard to open exclusive men only "social clubs" to women for this very reason. I'm convinced that our current political theatre was first "staged" at the Grove. They don't just relax there, I don't believe it. Papers are read, policy discussed and formed. Friendships made and virgins sacrificed. <p></p><i></i>
bvonahsen
 

Re: Joe

Postby NewKid » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:26 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The feminist movement pushed hard to open exclusive men only "social clubs" to women for this very reason. I'm convinced that our current political theatre was first "staged" at the Grove. They don't just relax there, I don't believe it. Papers are read, policy discussed and formed. Friendships made and virgins sacrificed. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Really? In front of that many people? Wouldn't a secluded mansion like in Eyes Wide Shut be more appropriate for that sort of thing? Or would you say the sacrifices aren't part of the play and are done privately afterwards in front of a much smaller group? <br><br>I'm sure a bunch of plots have been hatched at the Grove, but probably more among sub groups in the camps than at any speeches or policy paper presentations. The more people you get together at one place, the more you have to speak in the coded language of official bullshit, the more you have to worry about opposing factions thwarting your plan, the more you have to worry about pissing someone or group off, etc. I don't really think you need the Grove as a meeting place if you're going to do all that stuff. But who knows, they've played in a rigged game for long enough, maybe everyone's gotten sloppy and isn't really worried about it. <p></p><i></i>
NewKid
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:33 am

I think Domhoff is full of shit.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But careful studies show that all these actions were authorized by top government officials, which is the critical point here. There was no "secret team" or "shadow government" committing illegal acts or ordering government officials to deceive the public and disrupt social movements. Such a distinction is crucial in differentiating all sociological theories of power from a conspiratorial one.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>WTF does that mean?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Even though there are no conspiracies, it is also true that government officials sometimes take illegal actions or try to deceive the public. During the 1960s, for example, government leaders claimed that the Vietnam War was easily winnable, even though they knew otherwise. In the 1980s the Reagan Administration defied a Congressional ban on support for anti-government rebels in Nicaragua (the "Contras"<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> through a complicated scheme that raised money for the rebels from foreign countries. The plan included an illegal delivery of armaments to Iran in exchange for money and hostages. But deceptions and illegal actions are usually uncovered, if not immediately, then in historical records.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>You wanker Bill<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Because all their underlying assumptions are discredited by historical events and media exposures, no conspiracy theory is credible on any issue. If there is corporate domination, it is through leaders in visible positions within the corporate community, the policy planning network, and the government.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Wow he's got me there.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Finally, the conspiratorial view assumes that illegal plans to change the government or assassinate people can be kept secret for long periods of time, but all evidence shows that secret groups or plans in the United States are uncovered by civil liberties groups, infiltrated by reporters or government officials, and written about in the press.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>This is completely self referential piece of nonsensical horseshit. Because it hasn't been written about yet in my newspaper it isn't true.<br><br>WTF Grow a brain bloke.<br><br>BTW Whats a long period of time? Over 10 years? Thats perfect for election fraud isn't it.<br><br>And what about the things that are public but weren't, (Give up Joe he's a clown).<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>For example, that rich capitalists are no longer out to make a profit, but to create a one-world government. Or that elected officials are trying to get the constitution suspended so they can assume dictatorial powers. These kinds of claims go back many decades now, and it is always said that it is really going to happen this time, but it never does.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>What about the Patriot act. Dickhead.<br><br>And he is also dumbing down the argument. It hasn't happened yet so it won't. Any democracy is in a constant state of flux, between the forces of chaos and control. (Go Max). What happened in germany in the 30s. A democracy became a dictatorship through an electoral process. Very similar to the way the US constitution was disempowered through the Patriot act. By the voting process. Ok it was elected reps voting, but they are supposed to be the "voice" of the people.<br><br>Look if he was criticising unquestioning conspiracy theory, which is something that happens a lot, I wouldn't have an issue. But to pretend conspiracy doesn't exist, when by its very nature it is a human construct that people use all the time. Its the hoarding of info for your own benefit ultimately.<br><br>That just doesn't wash with me.<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html" target="top">There are no conspiracies</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.spiritwatch.ca/senoi.htm" target="top">His comments on the dream thing</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> weren't as bad as I thought tho. But again it was more a personal attack and a mammalian political game in his chosen field than an attempt to actually convey knowledge.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 9351
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:39 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Thank you Joe, Arcadia, banned, et all.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I first read his comment last night after i had been at the local watering hole. I knocked back a few quick beers, and was pretty upset about it. Its just not on. I would have been very offensive last night, so I thought I'd wait till this morning to respond.<br><br>But I did sense that his comment was directed at you Lils and aimed at being deliberately provocative. Nasty little prick.<br><br>Hows your gardening going BTW. Don't forget the land needs you as much as you need it. <p></p><i></i>
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 9351
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Joe

Postby bvonahsen » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:40 am

Newkid:<br>Oh i'm just a bit upset tonight, what with WWIII starting and all. I over stated myself, but I'm convinced that the clubby atmosphere, the feeling of belonging to a small powerfull elite, has over the years born it's own fruit. One that we are tasting today. <p></p><i></i>
bvonahsen
 

Re: Joe

Postby NewKid » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:42 am

'Even though there are no conspiracies, there are conspiracies. But there can't be any more conspiracies than these because we don't know about them. And since limited hangouts for some of them have appeared in the media, and some are even written down nicely for us in a memo, that must be all there is. Oh, and you're a rightwing, nativist, blackhelicopter seeing paranoid racist who needs to go read Hofstadter if you don't think so.' <p></p><i></i>
NewKid
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:57 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to Secret Societies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests