Fuck Ron Paul

[Hammer of Los]

Go on then, I'll add a bit.

The evidence that Ron Paul is an out and out racist seems a bit thin.

I am for responsible regulation of finance and industry, and against big government. My wife works for the Office of Fair Trade investigating dodgy practices by big business. That's good.

I'm not sure the fact that certain people support Ron Paul necessarily speaks that ill of him. I am sure many conspiracy researchers are supported by folk whose opinions they might not like all that much.

I don't consider myself either left or right. I am for tolerance, freedom to do what you want (as long as it doesnt encroach overmuch on another's freedom), and social and economic justice. I support devolution, local decision making, true representative government and the encouraging (not the coerced enforcement of) of communitarian values. I am against authoritarianism, and the use of violent force to effect political solutions.

I don't support the notion of gay marriage (ulp!), or stem cell research. I think the family unit is extremely important. I think hate speech laws are absurd and self-defeating. Abortion is clearly a (necessary) evil. I also think the powers that be support immigration (in the UK) in order to provide a cheap pool of labour for industry and the well-heeled upper middle class.

Really, I just think we should all be nice to each other. I totally support the welfare state for instance, and think we should tax the hell out of the rich.

Does that make things any clearer? No, I didn't think it would.



Really I just want to go and live in a hippy commune.

[MASONIC PLOT]

The problem that I see with Ron Paul is that he comes at a time when the country is clearly shifting slowly towards becoming a fascist police state. This is no longer the stuff of conspiracy theory or nutty internet forum posts. It is real and we are headed in that direction. It is undeniable. Ron Paul's seemingly strange ascent to the top of all these debate polls would is not so strange when you consider the above. Mr Paul is for privatizing EVERYTHING, he wants to turn everything over to the private sector and that is precisely what the current crop of corporate neo-fascists desire. It is possible that his positions are being used to bring these types of ideas into the mainstream of political thought. He may or may not be aware of the fact that he is being used, I would like to think that Mr Paul simply advocates these things because of his libertarian leanings rather than to asume he is working on concert with the fascists. It may be they both want the same things but believe in different outcomes. I do not know Mr Paul personally so I cannot really vouch for his character, based on the evidence alone, him being a politician, I am automatically suspicious of his intentions regardless of what he says or what he stands for, but hearing the man talk, it is clear he is very well informed and quite possibily the real deal.

Whatever the case may be, i do think, as someone said above, Ron Paul is serving as a conduit to bring extremist ideas into the main stream. Again he may not be doing the dirty work of the fascists who wish to destroy this nation, but they may be using him, nonetheless.

[11:11]

Keeping something in the private sector is NOT the same as SUBSIDIZING or taxpayer funding of private corporations. It is the merging of private entities and the state which is fascism. Ron Paul's position is that government be restrained by the Constitution, and everything else left to the people. Privitization of the military and banking are both unconstitutional, as these functions are given to government by the Constitution. Just as Ralph Nader has so clearly pointed out, we are in a state of corporate socialism, where private interets are taxpayer funded. That includes the likes of KBR and Blackwater, as well as the American taxpayer being forced to carry the burden of the global plantation, because business likes to profit off of cheap labor. Every well intentioned "liberal" who demands that working class Americans support illegal immigrants, feeds right into the fascist corporatocracy's desires. It's no coincidence that you find George Bush, John McCain, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, ALL ON THE SAME SIDE. Ron Paul is not in favor of this type of subsidizing, for the right or the left. Unfortunately, very few people have even read the Constitution, let alone the supporting debates of the times. Without knowledge of what it says, they have no clue what Ron Paul or any other Constitutionalist is talking about.

[MASONIC PLOT]

No, that isnt what I am referring to when I rail against privatization. Simply put THEY want privatization because it ELIMINATES OVERSITE. Privatization CAN be a good thing, any time you eliminate milk from the governments tit it is a GOOD THING. I agree with that. I believe people can take care of themselves and the private sector could floruish and provide us better social services on its own. The problem is they are not pushing it for these reasons, the government is working in concert with the private sector fat cats so that the corporate empire can take over the general responsibilities of govt, including the military being turned into a private army, because they want to ELIMINATE OVERSITE. That way they can do whatever the fuck they want to do and they dont have to answer to any of us.

As I said I do not know if that is the type of privatization Ron Paul desires, I sense IT IS NOT, I believe he is sincere, BUT I also believe he is being used by those whose privatization agenda is NOT sincere, being used as a conduit to get these ideas into the mainstream of political thinking.

[11:11]

He's not being used by those forces. They HATE Ron Paul. This why the corporate media has blackballed Ron Paul. Blackwater would be out of business when it came to taxpayer monies under the Constitution. This is why the right and left call Ron Paul a "crazy". Just as that Greenwald piece posted by sunny says, anyone not down with the plan is a loon, and not to be taken seriously. These people (globalists) are working overtime to DESTROY the Constitution.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Yes but they also know the people are desperate for a savior and they know the people feel smothered because the last five years a police state prison has been built around them, their final step, is to privatize everything and eliminate all oversite then continue on their march towards turning america into a corporate neo fascist police state. Who better to prop up to the people as their saviour than Ron Paul, a man who speaks of freedom and tearing down the empire so that the common man can once again be restored to his rightful place upon the throne? While Ron Paul gains all the attention of the grass roots freedom loving americans he is programming them to accept a COMPLETE DISMANTLING OF GOVT because its a bad bad thing, you see. That is what the fascists want also, hmm see how that works, they want to dismantle the entire govt and turn it all over to a few corporations who will then in turn manipulate, exploit and control all of us as a means of increasing their bottom lines, the rich will indeed get richer and the poor will get weaker.

So Ron Paul is getting everyone to think along the exact lines that the fascists need them to. I dont think he is doing it knowingly but they found themselves a messiah and they are going to nail him up for all to see.

The MEDIA has to reject and blacklist Paul, dont you see, if they didnt, nobody would pay any attention to him, assuming he was just another blowhard like the rest. The media giving him the cold shoulder is the exact reason why everyone is listening to him. They want you to listen to him, his message resonates with their agenda very well.

Cant you see what they are doing here. They WANT what Ron Paul wants, and they have found a man who can articulate it to the people at a time when the people are desperate for change and desperate for a golden calf. They want to dismantle the govt, the military, our local police forces. They want to replace all the police forces with private corporate mercenaries, they will tell us that those fat donut eating cops on our streets today just cant protect us from the new threats we face, we need retired mercenaries and green berets and special forces officers protecting us and blackwater can provide this for us. They want to replace our military with a private army so that they can operate outside of the realm of the world court and Geneva convention, oh yes, make no mistake this is what they want and it is what Ron Paul is preaching on their behalf, perhaps not even knowingly! Privatization baby, its the answer to all our ills!!

I am nearly 100% certain that this is what the Ron Paul phenom is ALL ABOUT.

[11:11]

Jeez, MP, Ron Paul wants the restoration of the Constitution, which would put the military and banking back under GOVERNMENT control, where it belongs. We are not moving toward government/corporate partnership, we are already there. It's completely UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Instead, the people are under government control, and private concerns have taken over the role of government. Everything is upside down, from the perspective of the Constitution. Ron Paul is blackballed, maligned, and smeared for the same reasons that Ralph Nader was - he's a threat to their rackets.

The military industrial complex (fascist industry+state) would NOT benefit from the world wide troop withdrawl that Ron Paul advocates. It would KILL their operations. Their oppsition to him is REAL. Why do you think Tom DeLay re-drew RP's congressional district, trying to unseat him? Why do think the Repugs backed a Democrat over Ron Paul? They like him about as much as a skunk at a lawn party, i.e., not at all.

[Truth4Youth]

Masonic Plot, please listen to audio file of Scott Horton and Lew Rockwell if you are concerned with the idea of fascists taking over because a libertarian could get in office.

I think what we should worry most about is the nexus between government and corporations. And I think from listening to Ron Paul he's concerned with this as well.

[ninakat]

Second, why is it a big deal if he is against gay marriage and abortion?

I'll tackle the first part of your question, since that's what irks me as an openly gay man. First of all, I could care less about gay marriage, although I don't like the inequities in the system -- but that's a different topic. What I care about is being persecuted because I don't fit someone else's definition of morality. Ron Paul sounded as bigoted as Jerry Falwell in his 2004 article where he ended it with:

Social problems cannot be solved by constitutional amendments or government edicts. Nationalizing marriage laws will only grant more power over our lives to the federal government, even if for supposedly conservative ends. Throughout the 20th century, the relentless federalization of state law served the interests of the cultural left, and we should not kid ourselves that the same practice now can save freedom and morality. True conservatives and libertarians should understand that the solution to our moral and cultural decline does not lie in a strong centralized government.
link: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul160.html

Moral and cultural decline eh? It's the gays and lesbians and the liberal society that's caused our ruin -- sound anything like Falwell, especially after 9/11?

If you can't make the connection between how a leader sets the moral tone and how the populace reacts to that tone, especially after what Bush (Mr. Divide and Conquer) has done to our sense of civility in this country, then there's not much hope for you when it's your turn to have the guns pointed at you because you're somehow "different."

This is not a GAY issue, it's a BIGOTRY issue. And since he's clear as day a bigot regarding homosexuality, it's likely he's a racist as well. I don't need to prove that though, since ANY form of bigotry should be enough to give people pause for concern.

As I stated before, I love AND hate Ron Paul. That leaves me with nothing.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Jeez, MP, Ron Paul wants the restoration of the Constitution, which would put the military and banking back under GOVERNMENT control, where it belongs. We are not moving toward government/corporate partnership, we are already there. It's completely UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Instead, the people are under government control, and private concerns have taken over the role of government. Everything is upside down, from the perspective of the Constitution. Ron Paul is blackballed, maligned, and smeared for the same reasons that Ralph Nader was - he's a threat to their rackets.

The military industrial complex (fascist industry+state) would NOT benefit from the world wide troop withdrawl that Ron Paul advocates. It would KILL their operations. Their oppsition to him is REAL. Why do you think Tom DeLay re-drew RP's congressional district, trying to unseat him? Why do think the Repugs backed a Democrat over Ron Paul? They like him about as much as a skunk at a lawn party, i.e., not at all.

I understand and agree that that is what Ron Paul wants, but he is also getting people to think in terms of a more limited federal govt at a time when the fascists want to LIMIT FEDERAL GOVT and EMPOWER private corporations to replace the govt.

I have not said Ron Paul is serving their needs knowingly but they may be using him to get us thinking along the lines they need us to. The lack of support and media blackout of Ron Paul only strengthens my case, they want him to appear to be outside the mainstream, people are desperate for a fresh voice right now. The more they reject him the more people will listen.

[ninakat]

and, just for shits and giggles:

Guess who's a Ron Paul fan?

Why, it's the inestimable Bob Novak.

[chlamor]

Ron Paul: "Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity."

What bullshit. It also means nepotism and cronyism -- rewarding sycophants and brown-nosers, but most of all rewarding those who are the same as the ones in charge: white, male, conservative, christian, belong to the same country-club, graduated the same alma mater, etc.

[medicis]

What is the most important position/action/policy we would want from a president?

What is the second.

What is the third.

and so on.

At what point do we figure that the remaining items are not as important and that we can, infact, agree to disagree about them and sort them out as time goes by.

I know what my top priorities are and which are not. For example, Obama-Clinton may be more tolerant of gays and other behaviors but the facts that they both support nuking Iran and the goals of the corporatist/NWO powers make any social tolerance they espouse to be quite irrelevant to me at this point in history.

The nation is about to be lost (if not already) and to me, the most important item is to preserve the Constitutional Republic.

We may debate items 2 to infinity.

[chlamor]

I'm not a single-issue voter. There are too many other important things to consider. And this leads me to *oppose* Paul precisely because:

-- I want women to be free to control their reproductive systems in this country and abroad
-- I want U.S. law to continue to make a distinction between a zygote and a person
-- I want union-organizers to be even more effective
-- I want to keep the Occupational Safety and Health Act
-- I want employees of federal contractors to continue to be paid the prevailing wage
-- I want to maintain the ban on kickbacks in federal projects
-- I want to prevent oil-drilling platforms from being built off the coast of California
-- I want to keep and strengthen Federal laws protecting clean air, water, and soil
-- I want freedom from pressure to worship to be protected across the entire country, especially in schools, and not just in some states
-- I want same-sex marriage secured across the entire country
-- I want people to be free to burn or destroy their own copies of the design of the U.S. flag
-- I want to be able to more-heavily tax people who make inordinately high incomes and who inherit large fortunes they did not earn
-- I want the United States to keep its commitments to the ABM Treaty and nuclear arms reduction treaties
-- I want international cooperation and effective international law, including U.S. participation in the International Criminal Court
-- I want the Bricker amendment to stay out of the Constitution (and by the way, isolationism is not the same as anti-imperialism)
-- I think the United States should not only abandon the Electoral College, but it should also move toward direct democracy of some form
-- and for many other reasons.

Ron Paul has not only opposed these things, he has actually sponsored bills in Congress to legislate his “No”. (Fortunately, he rarely gets anywhere with his proposals.) I doubt there would be many progressives, or even many liberals, who would like where this man comes from politically, or where he wants to take us.

Libertarian that he is, Paul's most deeply held belief is in the primacy of corporate profit over any other interest. If for you, the year divides into fiscal quarters, not seasons, then Paul is your man. Unlike Goldwater, nothing would delight Paul more than to see the American countryside turned into a moonscape, because that would be a result of its utter demolition in pursuit of resources, in turn heightening corporate profit. Paul will struggle to the end against any effort to combat global warming, unless by some miraculous matter his High Priests of Capital can think of a way to make a buck off of it. He will talk tax-relief for us miserable wage-earners, but he will fight tooth and nail only for a tax holiday for those whose income are from sales, not work.

He's a CEO's buddy, but he ain't mine.

Ron Paul for the "Truly Free" free market. Complete madness has overtaken the American political discussion.

Consider Ron Paul as a political indicator species. The fact that he can even be considered by those who profess to be "liberal", "progressive", or any other post-modern fungible political label, shows how wildly to the right has swung the American body politic.

[MASONIC PLOT]

I dont believe in government, period, so I really do not want anything out of any president. My vision is small, self-governing and ECO-FRIENDLY communities of people each doing their part to make the community a better place as a whole. Idealism? Yes. Impossible? No.

What are we without ideals? Isnt that what sets us apart from the rest of the living universe?