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Answer about 2004 concession by Kerry.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:14 am

So the real story, only because over-reacting cops are common though not acceptable, is the stream of questions that the student asked about the election of 2004 that Kerry didn't get a chance to answer, questions which affect the lives of billions of people.

Not that he would said what the real reason was for his rapid concession in November 2004 but which I have posted here before so here goes again:


Senator Kerry, a Vietnam veteran, conceded quickly because he was told that in order to prevent a Vietnam II he had to quickly get out of the way of US forces in Iraq which were massed around Fallujah getting ready to annihilate the rebellious city the very second that the presidential election was over to make sure this military action had no negative bearing on the US election.

I'm 99.9% certain of this only due to the logic and timing of events.

And Senator Kerry cannot say this outloud in public so he will continue to get bashed as a spineless quitter by his own potential supporters.

Two bad events had happened in Fallujah which turned that city into the seat of resistance against the fragile US occupation:
>US troops fired on civilians who were protesting and killed a number of them which led to the next bad event.
>The killing and burning of four Blackwater mercenaries by the angry crowds...
...which is an amazing story in itself because of how these four mercenaries ended up where they did.

The details came from one of the parents of one of the mercenaries, Katy Halveston, as told to Amy Goodman.

A Blackwater 'contractor' named Scott Helveston was so appalled by the behavior of his supervisor, who the others called 'Shrek' so often that he thought it was the guy's real name, that he wrote a whistleblowing note about 'Shrek' back to Blackwater headquarters in the US.

Scott Halveston had previously been a Navy Seal and was Demi Moore's personal trainer for her role in the movie, ' G.I. Jane.' (Refer to my many posts on how Hollywood is the CIA and Pentagon.)

The supervisor referred to as 'Shrek' found out about Scott's report to HQ and for retribution he teamed the whistleblower up with three other contractors he'd never worked with before and sent the four of them without usual armaments or even a map on a trip that landed them dangerously right in the middle of Fallujah. This is why they were killed and burned and hung from a bridge, because of a revenge move on the part of the supervisor sending them on a suicide mission.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/01/1621244&mode=thread&tid=25

The parents of the four Blackwater mercenaries actually sued Blackwater and whistleblowers mother was interviewed by Amy Goodman on Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now program.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/20/1340246&mode=thread&tid=25

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/23/1429251

A secretary within Blackwater headquarters was prosecuted for some minor infraction that I think was related to providing corroborative information to the parents of the four dead who were suing Blackwater.

But this highly-publicised killing and mutilation of four US mercenaries set off resistance in the whole of Iraq and the US military decided it needed to stomp out every living spark in Fallujah, a city which had already been assaulted in April, 2004 just before Abu Graib broke, to prevent a brushfire across the occupied country and create the situation we can now accurately refer to as Vietnam II, precisely the situation that Senator Kerry was told he needed prevent by stepping aside from his stolen presidency.

Fallujah was massacred by US forces. It was methodically covered-up at the highest levels of government and with the media help of the CIA's Operation Mockingbird.
The massacre was several times larger than the Vietnam War massacre at My Lai in 1968.

First the hospitals were destroyed. All press was driven out. Only a few independent journalists stayed to record the war crimes.
Many hundreds were killed, women, kids, old people, many cut down by snipers and burned by white phosphorus bombs. Many were buried within a day as their religion mandates in a soccer field.

The streets were filled with dog-eaten corpses.
After the siege and massacre te US soldiers had to hunt down and kill the dogs and decontaminate the town of evidence of chemical weapons before refugees could be let back in. General Wesley Clark wrote a cover story that was printed in the Washington Post about how it wasn't sufficient to destroy the city, the will to fight had to be destroyed. In the same essay Clark assured us that nothing improper had been done in Fallujah.

And all of this because of a supervisor's revenge against a Blackwater whistleblower, a personality we are not accustomed to thinking of as even existing.

So imagine the double horror that Vietnam Vet Against the War, Kerry, is living.
He gave up the fight for the stolen presidency to prevent Vietnam II but...instead this guaranteed Vietnam II.

Now he isn't going to tell us this but there it is and how we got in this mess.
Such is the reality of the National inSecurity State that doesn't tell the public that things are even worse than they think.
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Postby FourthBase » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:37 am

And Senator Kerry cannot say this outloud in public so he will continue to get bashed as a spineless quitter by his own potential supporters.


Eh, my intuition says he conceded because he was part of the plan to re-elect Bush, because he's a diabolical Skull & Bones gatekeeper, a school marm to the kindergarten class of Americans who have compassion and want justice. He was not in any way conflicted on Election Night, because he was not in any way genuinely trying to win the election.

That said...the guy deserved to be tasered, and his tasering will hopefully improve the approach of people like us in the future. If you're at a public event with a high profile figure like Kerry and there's an open mike and you want to stir shit up, then write down your questions in advance and take a small fucking sedative before you get up to speak. Also, if there are "legitimate" questions that get right to the heart of a conspiracy, ask those first (like he did) and leave the "think of me as a nutcase" questions for another day (like he didn't).

Why did he deserve to be tasered? Because the "pigs" are hired to protect high profile figures from crazy violent people. Naturally, if there was any real threat to Kerry it would merely be disguised as a lone nutter. But nonetheless, that's what these pigs are trained to sniff out, like truffles. He was okay until they tried to lead him out of the auditorium. Yeah, he has the right to free speech, but it's a private edifice and he can be legally escorted out for the flimsiest of reasons. Which would be a travesty, but his recourse then would be to blog the fuck out of being escorted out like some intellectual danger. Instead, he resisted, so he became a potential physical danger.

If I'm one of those pigs, I personally would have tasered him the instant he first resisted. You just don't fuck around with shit like that. There are indeed some crazy motherfuckers out there, and a decent percentage of crazy motherfuckers gravitate into the realm of conspiracy theory. It's not our fault they do, they just do. Let's say, like, 5% of all psychotics tend to believe conspiracy theories. Just a random number. So anyway the moment this dude says "Skull and Bones" and raises his voice trembling with anxiety, I would have been prepared to pounce. Yes, we all know the guy was probably anxious because of the taboo questions coming out of his mouth, he was probably just nervous from being the only person with the balls to speak up about what really happened, and then with all the adrenaline flowing he just freaked out a little. Knowing that, then we know he didn't really pose a threat or need to be tasered. But from an outsider's point of view, he was just a nutball who was trembling and almost shouting, and he had to be subdued.

So like I said, speak up, we need more ballsy people like this dude -- but when you speak up, prepare for it and remain calm and stay superficially within the mainstream. Be calmer than this guy and: you won't get tasered, and: you'll make Kerry the one who is trembling with anxiety. Kerry had his rote in-case-of-taboo-truths response and his evasive, dampening response was made even easier for him by the dude's meltdown. Out of control histrionics do not win info wars, right Hugh?
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Crossing the invisible line.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:00 am

I just watched a video clip that started just before the student got his turn at the mike.

He was really polite and respectful and enthusiastic, well-informed about the factual details of the stolen election. He had a copy of Greg Palast's book, 'Armed Madhouse,' in his hand and was recommending it to Kerry while describing it.

After mentioning a string of facts and asking "how could you concede with this information, don't you want to be president?" he turned to someone and said "I'll finish asking my question, thank you very much, he's been speaking for two hours and first I'd like to inform about a few things and then ask a couple questions."

Then he continued asking about Skull and Bones and his mike was shut off which didn't stop him and just made him more assertive since he was exposing a cover-up in the first place.
The cops instantly were on him in a flash after his mike was shut off which is why some students cheered as if it was just stopping a disruptor or a critic of someone they supported.
But then the cops got physical and it only got worse from there with him verbally protesting the whole time and he was right to do so.

But any physical resistance to police will go very very badly for the resister no matter how wrong the cops are.

I know someone who called the police because he saw a fight out on the street and when a cop was almost killing the wrong guy he ran out of his house to pull the cop off and thereby ended up in jail for assaulting a cop. If a witness hadn't testified in support of his story when the cop lied and said he was attacked with a weapon, he'd still be in jail.

The outrageous but true moral of the story is that wherever you have police you have a police state.

I've gone to public speeches with Q&A mikes for the audience afterwards where the same guy everytime in my area grabs the mike and rants until he's bodily thrown out. I've wondered whether he's an agent provocateur whose job it is to kill the mood of the room and chill people.

There is an unspoken etiquette at these functions that involves getting your question or statement done within the time allowed before the crowd turns on you.
Same with phoning in to talk radio. You can say it but you better get to saying it and concisely or buh-bye.

Still, those cops should all be fired and whoever shut off the mike and ran the event is responsible for creating a suppressive and physically dangerous scene where someone could've gotten hurt really badly.

I'm no Kerry fan but the scene in this room wasn't his fault and podium speakers, even Senators, have no say on police in motion. Police have impunity and politicians know this.
Last edited by Hugh Manatee Wins on Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby NavnDansk » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:19 am

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/19/11935/2321

https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?a ... erAction&J
ServSessionIdr011=t9qf7ijad1.app26a

__

Action for Andrew Meyer
by mattw
Tue Sep 18, 2007

If they can charge Andrew Meyer, they can certainly charge the police involved. I think everyone - especially Florida residents - should ask Florida AG Bill McCollum to file charges against the officer with the taser. Details on the law and contact info below.

I've written a post which picks out what seems to be the relevant law. There are specific justifications for the use of force provided for law enforcement, and I think given the level of restraint Andrew Meyer was under at the time of the tasering, none of them applied. He was not fleeing. He could not be a threat - they already had cuffs half on him, and if he wasn't on his back, they'd probably easily get the other on. Common sense alone dictates that it takes less than six police to bring one agitated college student into custody.

Fortunately, the law seems to agree with common sense here. Therefore, all we need is for the appropriate party to prosecute the violation.

Enter: Florida State Attorney General Bill McCollum.

web contact and phone/address are available.

I simply said in my comment that I hoped he looked into whether there was, indeed, a violation of the law, and if so, would do the right thing and prosecute.

I hope everyone will take a minute to write, call, or comment, so the FL AG knows that people believe in holding everyone accountable under the law, even those entrusted to uphold it. (Some, including myself, would say especially those entrusted to uphold it; I happen to admire and respect police enormously, and I think that's because we should hold them to a higher standard, and I think the vast majority of them live up to it every day)


Attorney General Contact Form
This will route your questions or complaint to the Attorney General's Office. Please fill out the form below and click on the "Submit" button. You will receive an electronic confirmation that your complaint or question has been received by this office.

http://myfloridalegal.com/contact.nsf/c ... ey_General

http://www.mattwallace.net/2007/09/poli ... of_as.html

Amnesty International attributes 245 deaths since 2001 to "taser-related" incidents, we should treat them as deadly weapons and not crowd control tools.

Tasers should be banned, period.

Police at UFL are guilty of assault

As we know, police at UFL tasered a nonviolent student who was trying to walk away.

I give you Florida state law:

776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.

--A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. The officer is justified in the use of any force:

(1) Which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to defend himself or herself or another from bodily harm while making the arrest;

(2) When necessarily committed in retaking felons who have escaped; or

(3) When necessarily committed in arresting felons fleeing from justice. However, this subsection shall not constitute a defense in any civil action for damages brought for the wrongful use of deadly force unless the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by such flight and, when feasible, some warning had been given, and:

(a) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon poses a threat of death or serious physical harm to the officer or others; or

(b) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm to another person.

I've bolded the most relevant portion. Here's what we need to know:

(1) Police are only acting legally in the use of force if an exemption is permitted by this statute;
(2) The police had no reason to believe that a handcuffed student, on the ground, with 6 police and 1 student, represented any threat whatsoever to them or anyone.

Consequently, those police are not justified in the use of the taser.

If the police declared they intended to arrest him, then they were justified in physically restraining him to cuff him. Once he was cuffed, and outnumbering him 6:1, there is no possible justification for the use of force. So to my reading, the officer using the taser was committing battery, and each other officer holding him down was an accessory to the crime.

The State attorney should immediately file charges against them. The tape alone is sufficient evidence to merit a trial.

Posted by Matt on September 18, 2007 11:1



http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/26956

Kerry Fears for Safety of Police Who Tasered Student to Protect Kerry from Inconvenient Questions
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-09-19 01:21. Media

http://www.johnkerry.com/blog

In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way.

I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention.

I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody.

I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured.

I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.

Well, what about posting an answer to the young man's question, if you can't stomach a straight apology for allowing the cops to torture him?

OMG
Submitted by CodePink on Wed, 2007-09-19 02:45.

I cannot believe that John Kerry is that dumb. Or does he think we are that dumb? I used to wonder how the German people let Hitler take over in their country. I wonder no more.
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Postby blanc » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:38 am

practical questions. Is there any defensive clothing against tasering - taser proof vest?
alternatively, is there any possibility of making a devise which might neutralise tasers?
also, are there self defense weapons available and permitted to be carried in the US?
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Postby anothershamus » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:48 pm

practical questions. Is there any defensive clothing against tasering - taser proof vest?
alternatively, is there any possibility of making a devise which might neutralise tasers?
also, are there self defense weapons available and permitted to be carried in the US?


If you wear something like that it will constitute a premeditated desire to cause trouble and you can be arrested on charges for just wearing something to prevent a policeperson from subduing you. If you have a gas mask at a rally that you expect to have to use against tear gas that is also an offense that can be charged against you. I don't know all the legal specifics but I do know that you are in trouble if you take precautions. Also I think that if you are completely covered in a conductive material, ie. copper, or heavy aluminum you can defeat the device but if it gets through the material I think you get shocked anyway, maybe someone else knows a trick, tinfoil hats?
)'(
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Postby orz » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:14 pm

Yeah, i think the best approach would be Art of War style, not get into a being Tasered situation to begin with.
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Postby Seamus OBlimey » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:51 pm

Good question blanc. Off the top of my head I can only think of a well earthed outer layer over non-conductive underwear. Maybe chain-mail and latex with cricket shoes? I wouldn't try it at home though.

Here's the britcops on tasers.
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Postby John E. Nemo » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:54 pm

Be subtle to the point of formlessness.
Be mysterious to the point of soundlessness.
Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.

To overcome others' armies without fighting is the best of skills.
The superior militarist foils enemies' plots;
next best is to ruin their alliances;

next after that is to attack their armed forces;
worst is to besiege their cities.


- Sun Tzu
Last edited by John E. Nemo on Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Doodad » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:55 pm

orz wrote:Yeah, i think the best approach would be Art of War style, not get into a being Tasered situation to begin with.


Or develop a natural immunity by getting zapped on a regular basis. I would open a franchise but that kind of flies in the face of the revolution.

:(
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Postby 11:11 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:32 pm

That said...the guy deserved to be tasered

WTF???

So, this conversation devolves just like DU? It's about the merits of tasering and not Kerry and the jackboots dispicable actions???

Jesus fucking Christ.
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Postby 11:11 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:49 pm

Fucking A, I cannot believe what I have just read here.

The tasered individual was INNOCENT of any wrong doing. NON VIOLENT and completely within his rights to question the PUBLIC SERVANT about the theft of our republic and the secret society to which he took an oath of loyalty.

How conditioned and brainwashed can you be to criticize the VICTIM? That guy spoke truth to power and you defend the thugs and their criminal battery?

Appalling.
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Satire/

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:44 pm

11:11 wrote:That said...the guy deserved to be tasered

WTF???

So, this conversation devolves just like DU? It's about the merits of tasering and not Kerry and the jackboots dispicable actions???

Jesus fucking Christ.


I'm pretty sure FourthBase was being outraged and sarcastic, not supporting the tazering.

Sometimes the tone in our heads doesn't translate through text and this misunderstanding ensues.
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Re: Satire/

Postby ninakat » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:54 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:I'm pretty sure FourthBase was being outraged and sarcastic, not supporting the tazering.

Sometimes the tone in our heads doesn't translate through text and this misunderstanding ensues.


Really? I'll let FourthBase speak for himself. I think he was serious.

FourthBase wrote:Why did he deserve to be tasered? Because the "pigs" are hired to protect high profile figures from crazy violent people.


11:11 has the correct reaction to this. OUTRAGE. I concur. There were SIX "cops" who could easily have carried the guy out, if need be. It wasn't like the guy had his hands around Kerry's neck, for god's sake.

But let's not overreact here. I'm sure FourthBase was just trying to stir things up and test our responses, right FourthBase?
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Postby 11:11 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:17 pm

Thank you, ninakat. And, why should someone not be fired up about the questions that guy asked?! We're all supposed to be good little, polite sheep in the face of FUCKING TYRANNY????????? I DON'T THINK SO. That's exactly why tyranny is succesful, because people are so timid and restrained. When is it okay to become outraged - when we're behind concertina wire?
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