Derealization

[vigilant]

A few years ago, for an entire year, I hovered as close to death as to life. I had many near death experiences during that year. I experienced "life without filters" as you stated it. False realities were stripped and it was similar to what you describe. After I recovered I saw the world with filters again, as I do now. There is definately a distinct difference.

[FourthBase]

Exactly the fictionalization and conditioning tactic I'm pointing at in CIA's TV and movies.

No, Hugh, friend...it's not even close to that.
What I'm describing transcends the media entirely.
It, um, transcends everything, lol, so that includes the media.
It even transcends the CIA! The CIA can't touch what I've realized!

Description

The detachment of derealization can be described as an immaterial substance that separates a person from the outside world, such as a sensory fog, a pane of glass, or a veil.
.....
Another symptom of this condition can be the constant worrying or strange thoughts that people find hard to switch off. Derealization builds up slowly with the underlying anxiety, but shows itself suddenly, often after a panic attack, and is then difficult or impossible to ignore until the sufferer receives treatment. This type of anxiety can be crippling to the sufferer and may lead to avoidance behaviour.

My derealizations have been medium-free, absolutely zero separation between myself and the real outside world. What I experienced, in my opinion, would be more accurately described as "realization" and what (and this is going to sound so fucking obnoxious but I mean it, forgive me) everyone normally experiences as "derealization", a life-long cradle to grave process of "derealization" which everyone knows as...life as we know it, culture, civilization.

Not that my derealization was amoral. Oh, on the fucking contrary. Take a guess what "avoidance behavior" would probably be ascribed to me, but which was actually a vivid, prophetic, horrifying moral insight.

[FourthBase]

A few years ago, for an entire year, I hovered as close to death as to life. I had many near death experiences during that year. I experienced "life without filters" as you stated it. False realities were stripped and it was similar to what you describe. After I recovered I saw the world with filters again, as I do now. There is definately a distinct difference.

Thank you vigilant. I'm glad you made it through.

...so I essentially induce a near-death experience in my mind?
It reminds me of Hemingway's maximum exposure purity of line bullshit.

[erosoplier]

It sounds like your experience might be based on perceptions percieved at a very early age - like a few week/month old baby. What you describe sounds very much like what I imagine the pure consciousness of a baby would make of the bizarre world it finds itself in.

[FourthBase]

It sounds like your experience might be based on perceptions percieved at a very early age - like a few week/month old baby. What you describe sounds very much like what I imagine the pure consciousness of a baby would make of the bizarre world it finds itself in.

I was just thinking that, and for a moment I felt so bad for babies. But there HAS to be some kind of "recognition software" that's activated immediately or else babies would be losing their shit literally every waking second 24/7. Hmmm, actually...that is what they do kinda, lol, right? Except for when comforted or exhausted? Maybe for the first few minutes anyway or first few days, it might not be activated or it might be slow to activate? I would both love and hate to be a baby again to find out. I'm guessing (hoping for their/our sake actually) that without an acquired context any unfiltered perception of bizarre shit would be more confusing than frightening.

[theeKultleeder]

Infants do not cognize patterns and movement and shapes the way adults do. Studies in infant perception are fascinating.

I imagine it is very much like a heavy heavy trip - a disjointed flickering of perceptions that seem to be coming apart. Except for babies, the perceptions are going together rather than coming apart.

We perceive an object in our senses as one thing, however, it is just physically unconnected signals from at least five different sense channels that we synthesize in cognition, or the sixth "mental" category of sense perception. In other words, we learn through growing up, socialization, and experience that a barking noise is to be associated with the hairy slobbery animal on all fours wagging its tail.

The first Buddhists knew this, and I knew this too, after taking a trip with Jimi Hendrix one night.

[FourthBase]

In other words, we learn through growing up, socialization, and experience that a barking noise is to be associated with the hairy slobbery animal on all fours wagging its tail.

Well, yeah, but...that barking noise IS associated with the hairy slobbery animal on all fours. I guess that could be the crucial distinction between what I've experienced and a classic meditative/trippy deconstruction. My perception was totally, utterly epiphenomenal. It was just surface, matter, material, space. The freakiest thing is how that totally accidental material was individualized and moving around and making noise like it mattered, like there was purpose, destiny, etc. That particular epiphany/joke was the one that made me chuckle real good. In a way, to this day and I imagine for the rest of my life, I can recall that joke any time I want for instant relief and happiness.

...I mean...have I just merely had psychedelic experiences without the actual psychedelics? Can the trippers here weigh in? Is that what vigilant experienced too? Babies? Is this maybe possibly related to the cause of some psychoses -- that some people experience this unfiltered shit in unprepared/unlucky ways?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Fairness, and Decency? How can you expect fairness and decency on a planet full of sleeping people.

Apparantly gurdjieff said that.

I raed the first four or five posts on this before I went to work today.

And all day I was thinking

"4B if you're talking about what I think you are talking about I know exactly what you are talking about."

[FourthBase]

So am I talking about what you think I'm talking about, Joe? I tried to articulate the perception/sensation the best I could, did you get a chance to read the longer posts?

[Sweejak]

Derealization (DR) is an alteration in the perception or experience of the external world so that it seems strange or unreal.

I don't need to be stoned to experience this, every time I leave the 'compound' and head into town I experience it. I've experienced it in one form or another ever since I can remember.

Chronic derealization may be caused by occipital-temporal dysfunction.[2]

No man, it's caused by knowing and seeing what is going on in the rest of the world, not just the mall. That experience is mostly in a political, social frame, but I've felt very much like you Fourth Base.

Individuals may complain what they see lacks vividness and emotional colouring.

Right, go to the mall.

About the other symptoms, like emotional distance from people I know, no I don't get that.

[Joe Hillshoist]

4B said

it's only because I am not articulate enough to really capture it

Sometimes life hits you(/me) between the eyes, so to speak, without usig any tools, even language to define or describe it.


So I think I understand what you are saying, cept ... words are a very limited tool for conveying this experience.

Well English words anyway, I don't know enough about other languages to really say.



I don't know if merely is the best term to use re psychedelic experiences, tho your experience sounds very much like one.

I often wonder how much of a psychedelic experience is due to the chemicals and how much is due to th mind/brain interface thingee trying to deal with what the fuck is going on.

Sometimes I have been tripping and stuck, then I suddenly feel free of it and realise how struck I am by the fact that it was words that had me stuck.

That feeling has no words tho, you experience the idea in its entirety, not as a construct made up by words, and explaining it now is just me trying to translate the concept into language. And its not a satisafactory explanation either.

Just thinking about it kind of brings it on, but trying to type about it makes it go away again.

Its good for a laugh tho. (The feeling that is).

[FourthBase]

That feeling has no words tho, you experience the idea in its entirety, not as a construct made up by words, and explaining it now is just me trying to translate the concept into language. And its not a satisafactory explanation either.

Just thinking about it kind of brings it on, but trying to type about it makes it go away again.

Yep. I was talking about what you thought I was talking about.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Thought so.

[FourthBase]

Bump.

In a way, to this day and I imagine for the rest of my life, I can recall that joke any time I want for instant relief and happiness.

So far this has been true. Not so much the happiness part (that has to be actively imagined and willed -- and it is not "instant", thankfully), but I have definitely relied on it for instant relief in times of despair, a neutral resetting of everything to zero when my mental vectors lean into the negative.

[Mx32]

fourthbase,

I found your posts very interesting and would appreciate any more info on reality you might wish to share!

Would you call your experiences "Enlightenment"?

Do you find everyday "normal" life a sham/illusion/joke/pointless/beautiful now or what?

Does anything we do matter, in your opinion?

And is there anything in the universe that cares about us strange creatures and the fantasies we play out on Earth?