In Praise of Putin

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

In Praise of Putin

Postby antiaristo » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:34 am

.

A good and courageous piece from an "old school" journalist. Lots and lots of interesting comments at the original.

In praise of Putin

For too long the west has rested on an assumption of superiority. The Russian president should be praised for exposing this old fallacy.

Edward Pearce

October 31, 2007 4:00 PM | Printable version

There is a plague afflicting casual commentary on foreign affairs today, and it is the survivor of cold war assumptions. We talk a great deal too much about "the west," and by implication we mean the good, civilised west facing its enemies. Stalin has been dead for 54 years but across that time "the west" has acquired any number of new enemies. Such thinking or dumb assumption-making has glazed over every act of meddling or aggression by the United States. The rest of us on the western list may hint at doubt and make reservations, but official commentary, the government and increasingly the new, tamed BBC, think systemically of a common western interest.

Accordingly we never understood and do not now understand Russia. At the most crass level there is Donald Rumsfeld, snarling at the French and Germans, calling them "the old Europe." Rumsfeld's "new Europe" comes in the form of Baltic states serving western interests - supplying troops in American wars.

Some part of the hatred for the EU with which the Murdoch press salts the earth derives from this "new Europe's" potential insufficient loyalty to the United States. American-led, American-commanded westernism is the true sacrament, one which Tony Blair and Spanish PM Jose Maria Aznar took on their knees, giving full support to the Iraq invasion in the Azores in 2003.

We may yet come to see the America's rise over last 20 years as a kind of convulsion, with triumph leading to calamity, and hubris meeting its nemesis. It may be, and let's candidly hope that it is, the Spanish Empire moment of United States history.

But the glory comes first. The fall of the Soviet Union had to signal American triumphalism, and it did, with neoconservative paranoia turning into neoconservatism on a drunken glass-breaking high. Robert Kagan caught the mood with a little pamphlet rationalising an American duty to intervene wherever it chose in order to reshape the world in a better American way. Such is the amazing want of historical memory that there actually was talk about "a new world order".

Like the last one, it doesn't seem to be working. Banking movements and investment diversifications now suggest an insufficient loyalty more important than any words, any argument. But in 1989 and across the 1990s, with the US embassy in Moscow effectively controlling a western leadership of Russia, the US presidency had its Philip II decade.

Was there ever a more despicable figure than Boris Yeltsin? Drunk and incapable in charge of a nation, he waved through the plunder of national assets by a pack of corrupt skimmers. He approved an abolition of food subsidies instituting an overnight destitution of ordinary people. His function in terms of Russian pride and self-respect was to play collaborator, quisling, self-enriched and wrapped in the consolations of drink and a church gaudily and expensively restored.

People ate out of dustbins, but Boris Yeltsin was a westerner, a splendid thing, evidence of western triumph. Somehow American and British governments have never felt the same way about Vladimir Putin. But then neither have the Russians.

Putin is enormously popular. The device by which he is continuing his leadership, behind a competent but happily subordinate technician, is accepted there as good news. I suggest that we should agree with the Russian people. They are getting what they want and they want it because Putin has governed Russia for Russia and Russians, has put back self-respect in a country whose nadir reflected an American zenith.

There has been luck involved. The rising price of oil has made non-compliance and international truculence pleasantly practicable. Russia behaves badly (from a western point of view) running around like a madman with a razor blade in his hand."
Consider the implications of the coming bombardment of Iran: reinforced terrorist impetus, diminished security of pro-American governments in the Middle East; consider the people who will die, the open and rolling road of imminent contingency, and Vladimir Putin's words seem pretty temperate.

He is making a stand which Brown, Merkel and Sarkozy should be making and which long, hungover assumptions about western-hood make psychologically impossible. The leader of Russia, with his people behind him, speaks for his country and speaks clear, obvious sense. It is a sense which our western complex denies us.


http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/edw ... putin.html

This ties back to an earlier thread

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... 686#127686

I've begun this new one because the title of the old is not appropriate.

Putin is becoming more and more important to the world. He's the only one with the balls to stand up to the Windsor takeover.

Those of us interested in world geopolitics should listen to what he says, for he says it quite clearly.


Vladimir Putin
President, Russian Federation
Speech at the 43rd Conference on Security Policy
Munich, Germany
February 10, 2007

Thank you very much dear Madam Federal Chancellor, Mr Teltschik, ladies and gentlemen!

I am truly grateful to be invited to such a representative conference that has assembled politicians, military officials, entrepreneurs and experts from more than 40 nations.

This conference's structure allows me to avoid excessive politeness and the need to speak in roundabout, pleasant but empty diplomatic terms. This conference's format will allow me to say what I really think about international security problems. And if my comments seem unduly polemical, pointed or inexact to our colleagues, then I would ask you not to get angry with me. After all, this is only a conference. And I hope that after the first two or three minutes of my speech Mr Teltschik will not turn on the red light over there.

Therefore. It is well known that international security comprises much more than issues relating to military and political stability. It involves the stability of the global economy, overcoming poverty, economic security and developing a dialogue between civilisations.

This universal, indivisible character of security is expressed as the basic principle that "security for one is security for all". As Franklin D. Roosevelt said during the first few days that the Second World War was breaking out: "When peace has been broken anywhere, the peace of all countries everywhere is in danger."


An admirer of FDR!

The whole speech is here:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/April2007/0 ... _Putin.pdf
antiaristo
 
Posts: 2555
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:50 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby chillin » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:22 am

and Eleanor?
chillin
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:56 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:33 am

Putin and the FSB were behind the massive false flag terrorist attacks in Moscow and the surrounding area that killed over 300 in 1999
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/c ... 043002.asp

This would be bad enough, but it was used to start the renewed Chechyn offensive which killed over 200,000 innocent Chechyns

Many journalists and whistleblowers exposing this and other FSB false flags blamed on Chechyns have been killed.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby antiaristo » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:00 am

.

Personally, I'm all for a balance of power. I'll take that over mass-market propaganda anyday.

The only thing on earth that scares the Windsor/Bush/Lady Clinton war machine is the Russian arsenal. Without that I'm pretty sure we'd have seen nukes deployed in Iraq already.

"Whatever it takes".

Putin will fight fire with fire, and he'll do so with the backing of his people.

That's important. 'Cos the only thing the West understands is force. Putin learned that the hard way. He tried the treaty route, but found the West does not honour treaties with those it does not fear.

No more Pooty Poo.
antiaristo
 
Posts: 2555
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:50 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:08 am

A balance of power, or terror, is preferable to a monopoly, but I think it's fallacious to believe the other side is cleaner simply because it's the other side. The FSB did bomb Moscow apartment buildings to strengthen Putin's hand.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby tal » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:20 am

8bitagent wrote:Putin and the FSB were behind the massive false flag terrorist attacks in Moscow and the surrounding area that killed over 300 in 1999
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/c ... 043002.asp

This would be bad enough, but it was used to start the renewed Chechyn offensive which killed over 200,000 innocent Chechyns



Only in the neocons' fevered dreams:


[url=http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10116]An old Moscow News story reports that Trepashkin, Litvinenko, and Berezovsky are old buddies:

"In a prison note obtained by The Moscow News, Trepashkin said his case began when the security directorate – an agency that oversees police and FSB activities – contacted the FSB about a meeting that had taken place between British intelligence, the exiled oil tycoon Boris Berezovsky, and fellow FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko. According to Trepashkin's note, Litvinenko apparently told of a planned demarche 'of disinformation in connection with FSB activities and the apartment bombings in Moscow.' The security directorate said Trepashkin was the one who had gathered all the information."

No, Putin does not "preside" over this little group of ex-KGBers; Berezovsky does. The Russian tycoon even has a connection with the prime suspect in the Litvinenko murder case, the elusive Andrei Lugovoi, who had a hand in busting Berezovsky's buddy, Nikolai Glushkov, out of jail. Glushkov, former head of Aeroflot, was convicted of embezzling millions and funneling the cash into a Swiss bank account controlled by none other than our old friend Berezovsky. The common link here is the Russian oligarch, not the Russian president.[/url]
tal
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby antiaristo » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:24 am

Jeff wrote:A balance of power, or terror, is preferable to a monopoly, but I think it's fallacious to believe the other side is cleaner simply because it's the other side. The FSB did bomb Moscow apartment buildings to strengthen Putin's hand.



I DO believe the other side is cleaner, but not simply because it's the other side.

I think the other side is cleaner because it is NOT the aggressor. Because it brings the BALANCE necessary to halt PNAC in its tracks.

I think the other side is cleaner because it has a constitution, and makes a decent fist of adhering to that constitution.

And as for your specific citation, that was hardly an innovation, was it? The British had been doing the same for decades. And SHE doesn't even have to worry about getting elected, does she?

Note: cleaner, not necessarily completely clean. But don't make perfection the enemy of the best.
antiaristo
 
Posts: 2555
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:50 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:29 am

tal wrote: Only in the neocons' fevered dreams:


Hardly. FSB's involvement in the bombings is established without any intervention from Litvenenko. I'm not surprised to see an attempt to discredit Litvenenko in the Moscow press, or that Raimondo would accept it at face value.

Watch Disbelief for the story on the Moscow bombings.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Doodad » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:29 am

Old commies never die; they simply morph until it's fashionable again.
Doodad
 

Postby 11:11 » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:23 pm

wiki

Boris Abramovich Berezovsky (Russian: Бори́с Абра́мович Березо́вский; born January 23, 1946) is a Russian billionaire. Often referred to as one of the Russian oligarchs, he fled to the United Kingdom in 2001, where he was granted political asylum, after his business activities were investigated in Russia. Berezovsky formally changed his name to Platon Elenin in British travel documents. [1]His family now lives in Israel and he holds dual Russian and Israeli citizenship.


lol
11:11
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Michigan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby jingofever » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:33 pm

I was watching the McLaughlin Group a couple of weeks ago (old habit) and one of panelists flat out said that Putin was behind those apartment bombings. Pat Buchanan and McLaughlin set her straight. "That's a horrible thing to say" - Buchanan's words, with a sort of choked up voice. She (not Eleanor Clift) backed off, I think; there was a bit of cross talk going on, unusual for the normally polite show.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:00 pm

jingofever wrote:I was watching the McLaughlin Group a couple of weeks ago (old habit) and one of panelists flat out said that Putin was behind those apartment bombings. Pat Buchanan and McLaughlin set her straight. "That's a horrible thing to say" - Buchanan's words, with a sort of choked up voice.


That's really interesting. Putin has a lot of American support from the Libertarian/paleoconservative camp.
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby jingofever » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:26 pm

I am wrong on several counts. The transcript shows that it wasn't the apartment buildings but the assassinations of journalists that she was talking about:

MS. FREELAND: (Inaudible) -- journalists in the street. I mean, America is a free and open society.

MR. BUCHANAN: You don't know that he did that. You don't know that he did that at all, that he gunned them down. That's a terrible thing to say.


And Buchanan used the word "terrible", not "horrible." Not sure why I thought she was talking about the bombings.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby 11:11 » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Putin has support among those who don't want to see Iran nuked.
11:11
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Michigan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby John E. Nemo » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:44 pm

Praising Putin for "not playing well with other despots" is akin to saying that under Mussolini, Italy's trains ran on time or saying that Stalin had a good profile.
(in other words, you're ignoring the barbarism and crimes against humanity of a dictator and focusing on a trivial "goodness" .)

Don't forget he may be a pedo, or Putin,-ophile.
Image
Image

I think what you may be seeing with Putin's "war of words" with US is Putin jockeying for a better position in the New World Order.

Putin wants Russia to be no longer viewed as a "has-been chaotic country slowly crawling back from the pits of despair and often on the brink of disaster", and viewed instead as an "emerging world power".

Putin, himself, wants to be seen as being as important in the world theatre as Stalin was at Yalta.

Sadly, I feel that, in the not-too-long run, Hugo Chavez may fall into this category, as well, albeit with his role model being Castro, rather than Stalin.

EDIT: Putin doesn't want Iran nuked, because he wants to make $$$ out of outfitting them with nukes.
What other industry dies Russia have to offer the world?
It's not like rich Middle Eastern countries with Muslim populations need vodka or tractors.
John E. Nemo
 

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests